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On November 08 2012 04:25 ampson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:On November 08 2012 01:43 ampson wrote:On November 07 2012 22:09 Monsen wrote:
[quote]
That, and avoiding a president from an anti science, anti intellectual, faith over reason base of evangelical lunatics.
(You know, the ones that have taken over the republican party in the last decade+ and are now getting the tinfoil hats out, because President Satan Mc Blacky will not only ruin the economy but also come and take away their guns/bibles.)
Sorry, but the w/rest of the world is kinda big on basing decisions on Science and Reason and would like the "leader of the free world" to share those values. Thus the celebrating.
No offense to people wearing magic underwear of course, to each his own.
You clearly know very little about Mitt Romney, conservatism, the United States, or the republican party. So, fuck you. All Germans are clearly asshats like you (I can generalize too!). His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/U.S._research_funding.png/800px-U.S._research_funding.png) There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. The one who calls me a part of a party of anti-intellectuals calls evidence useless? Ok. FYI, ID in classrooms was not part of the republican platform, pro-life/choice is a completely subjective matter based on one's morals and is not in any way anti-intellectual, and the whole reason that BOTH parties defend Isreal is a combination of appeasing Jewish voters (who contribute ridiculous amounts of campaign funds) and keeping a secure military presence in the region, the merits of which can be argued to be imperialistic but certainly not anti-intellectual. I think I understand the republican platform better than you do.
If you're going to ask me for evidence as to why arguing for any of those issues on a religious basis is anti-intellectual (hint: there are facts which contradict many of the ideas which give rise to opposition to abortion, such as the beginning of life biologically which scientists have not concluded on, BUT OH WAIT OUR RELIGION TELLS US OTHERWISE) you don't understand things as well as you think you do. And actually, ID in the classroom has become more and more an acceptable platform for Republicans to run on, and religious heavily influences why many people support Israel. Obviously that is not the only reason why the U.S. supports it, no shit.
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On November 08 2012 04:32 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:15 Feartheguru wrote:On November 08 2012 04:01 BluePanther wrote:
well.
last night sucked.
the most infuriating part was hearing rush on the radio driving home this morning. That peice of shit motherf***er is the REASON we lost, and he's making EXCUSES. It's not hurricane Sandy that won it for Obama, Mr. Limbaugh, it's your dumb ass turning off moderates from ANY republican because YOU make an ass out of all of us. We should have won by double digits.
F*** that guy, and F*** all of talk radio. And F*** conservatives. This shit is on. The look on the NRSC guys' faces last night tells the whole story. The divide is coming much sooner than I originally thought. What happened to your "Reliable insider sources" and their "much more accurate polling. GG No Re. They were pretty accurate. I got 47/50 correct, my wrongs being VA, FL, CO. And considering those were the last 3 states called, I consider that a pretty accurate guess. I think the Dem turnout in the cities surprised a lot of people.
The PA insider polls were pretty off too, weren't they?
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A noteworthy event last night: The Senate beatdown combined with the '10 census redistricting basically means that we're going to have a split congress for the next decade.
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Do you think CO voting to legalize marijuana helped mobilize the youth in large numbers?
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On November 08 2012 04:24 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:
[quote]
Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX.
And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it.
Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking? Because modern first-world countries don't make their decisions based on the writings of possibly non-existent figures from thousands of years ago and their followers' assuredly flawed interpretations of it? Do you really need this explained to you? America is not a theocracy. I don't need it explained to me. I'm tired of people on both sides in this thread running around not qualifying their opinions and simply saying it's so "obvious" What's obvious about pro-life being anti-intellectual? What's obvious about supporting israel no matter what being anti-intellectual? Why shouldn't we spend as much as we do on defense? Not everything is so "obvious" to the other side or there wouldn't BE another side, and not backing your shit up just leads to idiotic shit.
please read, this thread would be so much better with people actually citing sources and doing 30 seconds of research instead of talking out of their ass.
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On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:
[quote]
His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking?
The first part is a part of the principle of separation of church and state imo, which is a principle in your constitution's ammendments and a foundation of any secular, democratic state really. The latter one should be common sense when your military spending is roughly 40% of the total spent on military in the WHOLE world. Or, in other words, you spend as much as China, Russia, France, UK, Japan, Saudi Arabia, India, Germany, Italy, Brazil, South Korea, Canadia, Australia, Turkey, UAE and Israel combined. This is from the same party that says it cannot afford proper health care for the poor while claiming to adhere to Christian values, lol.
Anyways, it is not my business, or that of any other foreigner for that matter, what kind of people you elect in your political parties, but don't be surprised when the rest of the world has approval numbers of Republicans that do not exceed single digits and sees quite a few of them as right wing lunatics.
Congrats on electing Obama, gives me hope for the US! He might not have been a very good President in the last 4 years, but still better than the competition.
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On November 08 2012 04:36 heliusx wrote:
Do you think CO voting to legalize marijuana helped mobilize the youth in large numbers?
I think it is supremely difficult to say; while many pro-pot voters are very likely to fall in line with Obama's overall platform far more so than with Romney's, Obama has been no friend to the legalization movement. I am extremely curious to see how Obama posits the next few years of federal drug enforcement.
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On November 08 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:
[quote]
Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking? Because modern first-world countries don't make their decisions based on the writings of possibly non-existent figures from thousands of years ago and their followers' assuredly flawed interpretations of it? Do you really need this explained to you? America is not a theocracy.
Stop talking out of your ass like any ideas based on religion are automatically bad. You're acting like only the republicans have religious people in their party.
the religious left actually exists and is a pretty large part of democratic inner city success.
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On November 08 2012 04:32 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:15 Feartheguru wrote:On November 08 2012 04:01 BluePanther wrote:
well.
last night sucked.
the most infuriating part was hearing rush on the radio driving home this morning. That peice of shit motherf***er is the REASON we lost, and he's making EXCUSES. It's not hurricane Sandy that won it for Obama, Mr. Limbaugh, it's your dumb ass turning off moderates from ANY republican because YOU make an ass out of all of us. We should have won by double digits.
F*** that guy, and F*** all of talk radio. And F*** conservatives. This shit is on. The look on the NRSC guys' faces last night tells the whole story. The divide is coming much sooner than I originally thought. What happened to your "Reliable insider sources" and their "much more accurate polling. GG No Re. They were pretty accurate. I got 47/50 correct, my wrongs being VA, FL, CO. And considering those were the last 3 states called, I consider that a pretty accurate guess. I think the Dem turnout in the cities surprised a lot of people.
Yet still less accurate than aggregating the polls.
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On November 08 2012 04:34 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:32 BluePanther wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Feartheguru wrote:On November 08 2012 04:01 BluePanther wrote:
well.
last night sucked.
the most infuriating part was hearing rush on the radio driving home this morning. That peice of shit motherf***er is the REASON we lost, and he's making EXCUSES. It's not hurricane Sandy that won it for Obama, Mr. Limbaugh, it's your dumb ass turning off moderates from ANY republican because YOU make an ass out of all of us. We should have won by double digits.
F*** that guy, and F*** all of talk radio. And F*** conservatives. This shit is on. The look on the NRSC guys' faces last night tells the whole story. The divide is coming much sooner than I originally thought. What happened to your "Reliable insider sources" and their "much more accurate polling. GG No Re. They were pretty accurate. I got 47/50 correct, my wrongs being VA, FL, CO. And considering those were the last 3 states called, I consider that a pretty accurate guess. I think the Dem turnout in the cities surprised a lot of people. The PA insider polls were pretty off too, weren't they?
Not that far off at all. Romney lost by only 5%, I said "he was in striking distance", not "he's in the lead". I think their models were predicting a mix of '10 and '08 turnouts, but it was far closer to '08 than expected.
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On November 08 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:On November 08 2012 01:43 ampson wrote:
[quote]
You clearly know very little about Mitt Romney, conservatism, the United States, or the republican party. So, fuck you. All Germans are clearly asshats like you (I can generalize too!). His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. The one who calls me a part of a party of anti-intellectuals calls evidence useless? Ok. FYI, ID in classrooms was not part of the republican platform, pro-life/choice is a completely subjective matter based on one's morals and is not in any way anti-intellectual, and the whole reason that BOTH parties defend Isreal is a combination of appeasing Jewish voters (who contribute ridiculous amounts of campaign funds) and keeping a secure military presence in the region, the merits of which can be argued to be imperialistic but certainly not anti-intellectual. I think I understand the republican platform better than you do. If you're going to ask me for evidence as to why arguing for any of those issues on a religious basis is anti-intellectual (hint: there are facts which contradict many of the ideas which give rise to opposition to abortion, such as the beginning of life biologically which scientists have not concluded on, BUT OH WAIT OUR RELIGION TELLS US OTHERWISE) you don't understand things as well as you think you do. And actually, ID in the classroom has become more and more an acceptable platform for Republicans to run on, and religious heavily influences why many people support Israel. Obviously that is not the only reason why the U.S. supports it, no shit.
I'm pro-life and I'm not religious, as are MANY other pro-lifers...just sayin.
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On November 08 2012 04:41 Tarot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:32 BluePanther wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Feartheguru wrote:On November 08 2012 04:01 BluePanther wrote:
well.
last night sucked.
the most infuriating part was hearing rush on the radio driving home this morning. That peice of shit motherf***er is the REASON we lost, and he's making EXCUSES. It's not hurricane Sandy that won it for Obama, Mr. Limbaugh, it's your dumb ass turning off moderates from ANY republican because YOU make an ass out of all of us. We should have won by double digits.
F*** that guy, and F*** all of talk radio. And F*** conservatives. This shit is on. The look on the NRSC guys' faces last night tells the whole story. The divide is coming much sooner than I originally thought. What happened to your "Reliable insider sources" and their "much more accurate polling. GG No Re. They were pretty accurate. I got 47/50 correct, my wrongs being VA, FL, CO. And considering those were the last 3 states called, I consider that a pretty accurate guess. I think the Dem turnout in the cities surprised a lot of people. Yet still less accurate than aggregating the polls.
Let's be honest here, these races were decided by 50,000, 100,000, 120,000. Poll aggregation is an educated guess at that point no more than mine was.
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On November 08 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:On November 08 2012 01:43 ampson wrote:
[quote]
You clearly know very little about Mitt Romney, conservatism, the United States, or the republican party. So, fuck you. All Germans are clearly asshats like you (I can generalize too!). His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. The one who calls me a part of a party of anti-intellectuals calls evidence useless? Ok. FYI, ID in classrooms was not part of the republican platform, pro-life/choice is a completely subjective matter based on one's morals and is not in any way anti-intellectual, and the whole reason that BOTH parties defend Isreal is a combination of appeasing Jewish voters (who contribute ridiculous amounts of campaign funds) and keeping a secure military presence in the region, the merits of which can be argued to be imperialistic but certainly not anti-intellectual. I think I understand the republican platform better than you do. If you're going to ask me for evidence as to why arguing for any of those issues on a religious basis is anti-intellectual (hint: there are facts which contradict many of the ideas which give rise to opposition to abortion, such as the beginning of life biologically which scientists have not concluded on, BUT OH WAIT OUR RELIGION TELLS US OTHERWISE) you don't understand things as well as you think you do. And actually, ID in the classroom has become more and more an acceptable platform for Republicans to run on, and religious heavily influences why many people support Israel. Obviously that is not the only reason why the U.S. supports it, no shit.
Again, ID was not on the republican platform. Clearly the party as a whole did not deem it an acceptable platform to run on. I don't know what you're getting at with regards to the beginning of life biologically. Everything is "Alive" biologically. The beginning of life biologically has nothing to do with being pro-choice/pro-life. A fertilized egg will almost always become a human being. Whether you believe that is worth protecting is entirely subjective and moral. What religion tells you merely influences morals, which we have established are NOT related to intellectualism. And the GOP (and democrats) support Israel to please jewish voters (Yes, religion influences them, support for a country is not anti-intellectual.) But they mostly support it for Jewish money and a military presence.
You are arguing that religion is anti-intellectual, not that republicans are. Take your hate for religion somewhere else, preferably to /r/atheism from whence you came.
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On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:
[quote]
His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking?
Religious morals are, by their nature, incompatible with large, diverse populations. If you try to use religious justification for any kind of laws or customs, you are forcing your religious beliefs on someone else (e.g. if you ban gay marriage because of a Christian's perspective on marriage, you are forcing others to conform to a Christian definition of marriage). This is common sense and this is why we don't need or want religion in our politics. There are numerous ways to justify and explain morals in an inclusive way without resorting to religious principles.
See, for example, most concepts of justice, fairness, etc. These are all widely held ideals that aren't specific to a religion or culture, and as such, we legislate based on these widespread definitions (of course, details are argued over, but the point is still there). You simply can't do this with religious justification. I, as a non-Christian, simply won't accept a Christian justification for banning gay marriage because I don't believe in Christian doctrine, and this situation is very common across such a diverse country as the U.S.
This is why you don't need "evidence" (as in empirical evidence). This is a fairly common-sense idea that only takes a small amount of reflection.
Of course, this doesn't mean that religion is bad, but a particular religion (like Christianity) has no place dictating what rules I should follow outside of their domain, and the everyday life of every individual is not Christianity's domain.
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Well Obama's 2.6 million votes in the lead now and has over 50% of the overall vote. Can't really blame the electoral college for that, USA would've had obama either way.
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On November 08 2012 04:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:
[quote]
Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking? Religious morals are, by their nature, incompatible with large, diverse populations. If you try to use religious justification for any kind of laws or customs, you are forcing your religious beliefs on someone else (e.g. if you ban gay marriage because of a Christian's perspective on marriage, you are forcing others to conform to a Christian definition of marriage). This is common sense and this is why we don't need or want religion in our politics. There are numerous ways to justify and explain morals in an inclusive way without resorting to religious principles. See, for example, most concepts of justice, fairness, etc. These are all widely held ideals that aren't specific to a religion or culture, and as such, we legislate based on these widespread definitions (of course, details are argued over, but the point is still there). You simply can't do this with religious justification. I, as a non-Christian, simply won't accept a Christian justification for banning gay marriage because I don't believe in Christian doctrine, and this situation is very common across such a diverse country as the U.S. This is why you don't need "evidence" (as in empirical evidence). This is a fairly common-sense idea that only takes a small amount of reflection.
And yet there's people on both sides of the issue. So I guess it isn't as "common-sense" is it? Note the post I made after that one.
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On November 08 2012 04:40 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:
[quote]
Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX.
And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it.
Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking? Because modern first-world countries don't make their decisions based on the writings of possibly non-existent figures from thousands of years ago and their followers' assuredly flawed interpretations of it? Do you really need this explained to you? America is not a theocracy. Stop talking out of your ass like any ideas based on religion are automatically bad. You're acting like only the republicans have religious people in their party. the religious left actually exists and is a pretty large part of democratic inner city success.
Stop talking out of your ass like I said any ideas based on religion are bad, it just had no place in any classroom outside of a theology class, no place in deciding where my friends and family are sent to fight in wars, and no place in deciding whether or not my girlfriend, who ascribes to no religion, can get an abortion, or birth control.
On November 08 2012 04:42 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:
[quote]
His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. The one who calls me a part of a party of anti-intellectuals calls evidence useless? Ok. FYI, ID in classrooms was not part of the republican platform, pro-life/choice is a completely subjective matter based on one's morals and is not in any way anti-intellectual, and the whole reason that BOTH parties defend Isreal is a combination of appeasing Jewish voters (who contribute ridiculous amounts of campaign funds) and keeping a secure military presence in the region, the merits of which can be argued to be imperialistic but certainly not anti-intellectual. I think I understand the republican platform better than you do. If you're going to ask me for evidence as to why arguing for any of those issues on a religious basis is anti-intellectual (hint: there are facts which contradict many of the ideas which give rise to opposition to abortion, such as the beginning of life biologically which scientists have not concluded on, BUT OH WAIT OUR RELIGION TELLS US OTHERWISE) you don't understand things as well as you think you do. And actually, ID in the classroom has become more and more an acceptable platform for Republicans to run on, and religious heavily influences why many people support Israel. Obviously that is not the only reason why the U.S. supports it, no shit. I'm pro-life and I'm not religious, as are MANY other pro-lifers...just sayin.
I somehow doubt that's true. I'd love to know where you heard that.
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On November 08 2012 04:41 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:34 TheTenthDoc wrote:On November 08 2012 04:32 BluePanther wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Feartheguru wrote:On November 08 2012 04:01 BluePanther wrote:
well.
last night sucked.
the most infuriating part was hearing rush on the radio driving home this morning. That peice of shit motherf***er is the REASON we lost, and he's making EXCUSES. It's not hurricane Sandy that won it for Obama, Mr. Limbaugh, it's your dumb ass turning off moderates from ANY republican because YOU make an ass out of all of us. We should have won by double digits.
F*** that guy, and F*** all of talk radio. And F*** conservatives. This shit is on. The look on the NRSC guys' faces last night tells the whole story. The divide is coming much sooner than I originally thought. What happened to your "Reliable insider sources" and their "much more accurate polling. GG No Re. They were pretty accurate. I got 47/50 correct, my wrongs being VA, FL, CO. And considering those were the last 3 states called, I consider that a pretty accurate guess. I think the Dem turnout in the cities surprised a lot of people. The PA insider polls were pretty off too, weren't they? Not that far off at all. Romney lost by only 5%, I said "he was in striking distance", not "he's in the lead". I think their models were predicting a mix of '10 and '08 turnouts, but it was far closer to '08 than expected.
I think he should have probably made a quieter play for Penn. The fact that he was so open about it probably got a lot of 08 dems out that might have stayed home if they felt there state wasnt close.
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On November 08 2012 04:40 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:22 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:19 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:15 Risen wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:
[quote]
Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX.
And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it.
Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. Just because you may be right does not mean you shouldn't post sources or evidence. What a load of shit. The word "evidence" is being used in the sardonic sense, not the literal one you child. "it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need." You have anything that backs up that claim or are you still talking? Because modern first-world countries don't make their decisions based on the writings of possibly non-existent figures from thousands of years ago and their followers' assuredly flawed interpretations of it? Do you really need this explained to you? America is not a theocracy. Stop talking out of your ass like any ideas based on religion are automatically bad. You're acting like only the republicans have religious people in their party. the religious left actually exists and is a pretty large part of democratic inner city success.
Religion was made for individuals, not countries. You shouldn't mix religion and politics, they seek two different things. Not saying everything religion says is 100% wrong, just that it shouldn't be a decisive factor.
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On November 08 2012 04:44 ampson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 04:33 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 04:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 04:14 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 03:39 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 03:30 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 02:25 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 02:16 BlueLanterna wrote:On November 08 2012 01:57 ampson wrote:On November 08 2012 01:48 Chargelot wrote:
[quote]
His assessment was not extremely off. Science expenditures by the federal gov't have been higher under republican leadership in the past 20 years, with the exception of Obama's stimulus, which blew up spending everywhere. Fact. Mitt Romney's stance is that evolution, not ID or creationism should be taught in class rooms. Fact. I fail to see how this is anti-intellectual. Only about half of the Republican Party is evangelical and guess what? Religion is not an indicator of anti-intellectualism. There aren't a ton of tinfoil hats and nobody is calling Obama Satan McBlacky. His assessment was very far off. Anti-intellectual does not directly entail that he believes ID should be taught in the classroom, you have to extrapolate his view that "federal government does not belong in education", so passing off the responsibility to the state and local level WOULD be anti-intellectual, it would mean that all the assholes who want to push for their version of history, their version of american politics, etc. would be free to do so as they please without oversight from the federal government, just like they've done with our textbooks in TX. And actually, there are a lot of people calling Obama "Satan" and the anti-Christ and all sorts of other things, where have you been the past 4 years? And you're making a false correlation between evangelism and religion in this situation, evangelism and adhering to it undoubtedly gives you a more anti-intellectual stance on some issues because your rationale is not being informed by facts, only by your religious text and whatever interpretation you and whoever around you creates of it. Also I'd like to know where you got these "science" numbers from, they must be drastically different from something like the NASA budget, which has fallen in every administration except the Clinton years since Kennedy I said in the past 20 years, as that is the most accurate representation of recent policies. There's the graph. The spike in spending is the stimulus, which blew up spending in every category. No mainstream republican has been calling obama satan in the past four years, you are looking at radicals with nothing to lose and assuming it's true of an entire party. They have said that he is ineffective and a bad leader, yes. Satan, no. Bush actually increased the NASA budget. And no, I will not equate evangelicalism with anti-intellectualism. Making decisions with morals based on religion is not stupid, it is what is seen by many as character. Obviously some might not agree, but the republican party is definitely not anti-intellectual. Actually there are plenty of cases where making decisions with morals based on religion is very stupid, foolhardy, and gets people killed out of ignorance. And yes, sorry to burst your bubble but the Republican party has moved steadily towards anti-intellectualism becoming accepted, you must not read into a lot of their policies on education/foreign affairs/defense spending. edit: Also the NASA budget as a percentage of national spending HAS gone down in just about every administration like I said, your graph does not address that fact because it's putting hard numbers on research, it's not a proportional figure. Check the video posted a few pages back, and Neil DeGrasse Tyson will TELL you that Bush helped out NASA. And arguing that religious morals are worse than any other morals (as you are doing) is useless. Morals are subjective. I can look at any set of morals and pull out dozens of terrible events that were caused by it. Thanks for all that evidence though. I don't really need to post any "evidence", it's obvious that injecting religious morals into the classroom, or into our foreign affairs, or into why we need to spend as much on defense as we are, is exactly what we don't need. See: Dominionism, the argument for ID in the classroom, the argument for being pro-life, the religious fervor over defending Isreal regardless of what it does, etc.. All anti-intellectual. That's what we're talking about here, not religion informing your values on a personal level, but electing a party where extreme religious views thrive and could ultimately influence policy. Also your argument for Republicans not being anti-intellectual shows a complete lack of understanding of their platform and messaging. The one who calls me a part of a party of anti-intellectuals calls evidence useless? Ok. FYI, ID in classrooms was not part of the republican platform, pro-life/choice is a completely subjective matter based on one's morals and is not in any way anti-intellectual, and the whole reason that BOTH parties defend Isreal is a combination of appeasing Jewish voters (who contribute ridiculous amounts of campaign funds) and keeping a secure military presence in the region, the merits of which can be argued to be imperialistic but certainly not anti-intellectual. I think I understand the republican platform better than you do. If you're going to ask me for evidence as to why arguing for any of those issues on a religious basis is anti-intellectual (hint: there are facts which contradict many of the ideas which give rise to opposition to abortion, such as the beginning of life biologically which scientists have not concluded on, BUT OH WAIT OUR RELIGION TELLS US OTHERWISE) you don't understand things as well as you think you do. And actually, ID in the classroom has become more and more an acceptable platform for Republicans to run on, and religious heavily influences why many people support Israel. Obviously that is not the only reason why the U.S. supports it, no shit. Again, ID was not on the republican platform. Clearly the party as a whole did not deem it an acceptable platform to run on. I don't know what you're getting at with regards to the beginning of life biologically. Everything is "Alive" biologically. The beginning of life biologically has nothing to do with being pro-choice/pro-life. A fertilized egg will almost always become a human being. Whether you believe that is worth protecting is entirely subjective and moral. What religion tells you merely influences morals, which we have established are NOT related to intellectualism. And the GOP (and democrats) support Israel to please jewish voters (Yes, religion influences them, support for a country is not anti-intellectual.) But they mostly support it for Jewish money and a military presence. You are arguing that religion is anti-intellectual, not that republicans are. Take your hate for religion somewhere else, preferably to /r/atheism from whence you came.
Only if you call about half the time almost always: source
(no interest in this particular argument but it's important to keep this fact in mind if you try to form an opinion about abortions)
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EPT
