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Use of Old Church Spaces - Page 8

Forum Index > General Forum
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Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
April 18 2012 20:52 GMT
#141
On April 19 2012 05:10 kerpal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 05:04 Myles wrote:
On April 19 2012 04:49 lorkac wrote:
Hypothetically--if someone bought the bodlien library in Oxford and began burning the books to cook his meals with--should we be okay with it because it's his property anyway?

Sure, because obviously Oxford didn't think the books important enough to save.

to play the hypothetical devil's advocate in this hypothetically parallel hypothetical arguement - isn't the knowledge contained within them the property of more than just whoever owns the books and library?

also, what if this were an art gallery? i remember there was a discussion about one artist who (as an exhibition) destroyed all of his posessions, including works of art he had purchased from other artists.

I don't think so. If that is the case, then we need to outlaw personal possession of works of knowledge since it being personal property gives them exclusive rights to do with it as they please.

As far as the art gallery, I can understand some outrage if he bought them up with the plan to destroy them and without the original owners knowing that, but besides that I feel the same as above.
Moderator
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
April 18 2012 21:02 GMT
#142
On April 19 2012 05:52 Myles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 05:10 kerpal wrote:
On April 19 2012 05:04 Myles wrote:
On April 19 2012 04:49 lorkac wrote:
Hypothetically--if someone bought the bodlien library in Oxford and began burning the books to cook his meals with--should we be okay with it because it's his property anyway?

Sure, because obviously Oxford didn't think the books important enough to save.

to play the hypothetical devil's advocate in this hypothetically parallel hypothetical arguement - isn't the knowledge contained within them the property of more than just whoever owns the books and library?

also, what if this were an art gallery? i remember there was a discussion about one artist who (as an exhibition) destroyed all of his posessions, including works of art he had purchased from other artists.

I don't think so. If that is the case, then we need to outlaw personal possession of works of knowledge since it being personal property gives them exclusive rights to do with it as they please.

As far as the art gallery, I can understand some outrage if he bought them up with the plan to destroy them and without the original owners knowing that, but besides that I feel the same as above.

yeah. i think i'm with you, but with reservations..

suppose someone were to destroy knowledge that would have bettered the human race? actually I remember hearing somewhere (i'm full of hearsay tonight.. don't know where it's all come from) that oil companies buy up patents for more fuel efficient engines like this and then do nothing with the patent in order to keep us reliant on them. Don't know if that's true.

this is getting off topic, I don't think religious iconography is this important, but is there a point at which something is so valuable that people shouldn't have the right to destroy it even if they legally own it?
i feel like that's a more interesting debate.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
April 18 2012 21:15 GMT
#143
I just don't see anything desecrating in those pictures in the OP. I think people choose to get offended. But really, they didn't turn the cross upside down, or draw satan symbols on it.

They used it for a very practical, and reasonable purpose. Jesus, being a carpenter, I think would actually approve.

Bottom-line, it isn't the Church's cross. The people in that house own it, so it is just two piece of wood fastened together perpendicularly. I see no reason that they can't do whatever they want with that "cross".
Big water
NEXUS6
Profile Joined July 2011
United States413 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-18 21:31:17
April 18 2012 21:27 GMT
#144
Anyone can buy an old church and do whatever they want with it, so why is this even a thread? just to see how many people are extremely religious? If anyone is looking for affordable housing why not buy a church and renovate it if the price is right? The people who buy the churches could burn statues of Jesus and all the crosses if they didn't want it around, who cares what old Christians think of it. It truly isn't hurting anyone..
ampson
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2355 Posts
April 18 2012 21:31 GMT
#145
Uh.... If you don't want your shit being used then don't leave it in the building? Common sense, man. This isn't even a problem.
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
April 18 2012 21:36 GMT
#146
On April 19 2012 05:47 Gnosis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 04:49 lorkac wrote:
Hypothetically--if someone bought the bodlien library in Oxford and began burning the books to cook his meals with--should we be okay with it because it's his property anyway?


A wooden cross is not a library of books: the comparison is inappropriate.


It's not about the cross or the books. People are saying we shouldn't care because it is thir property--and it's easy to say that when you don't care about the object in question. I might think crosses and churches are heretical to the practice of Christianity--but that doesn't mean I can tell Christians to toss their crosses. Likewise, we can't tell those dudes to take down their pool cue just because we don't like it. By what if it's something that isn't so neutral? I'm pro choice, a woman can do what she will with her body--but I still cringe and the idea of legal infanticide. But it's her body, it's their cross, and it's the hypothetical argument's library.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
Diomedes7
Profile Joined November 2011
67 Posts
April 18 2012 21:37 GMT
#147
When someone buys something, it becomes their property and they can do what they want with it.
Shaok
Profile Joined October 2010
297 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-18 21:53:13
April 18 2012 21:44 GMT
#148
On April 19 2012 06:37 Diomedes7 wrote:
When someone buys something, it becomes their property and they can do what they want with it.


I agree.

A cross to a non christian is just a cross. A cross to a christian is believed to be sacred.

Plus you should not force your beliefs onto someone else.

Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
April 18 2012 21:54 GMT
#149
Sometimes I feel like I'm in a lecture on quantum mechanics and someone comes in and says 'hey guys, what do you think about this gravitational constant thing?!'.

It's no wonder philosophy is regarded as useless when your minds are filled with such banality.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
2ndThermoLaw
Profile Joined March 2011
United States9 Posts
April 18 2012 22:07 GMT
#150
Religion is stupid and counter productive to modern society... that is all.

User was temp banned for this post.
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's relativity. - Einstein
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
April 18 2012 22:11 GMT
#151
I actually DIDNT see the cross holding the cues, I was like "is the fucking pool table a giant cross WTF!" lol untill I looked a second time
FoTG fighting!
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
April 18 2012 22:22 GMT
#152
On April 19 2012 06:02 kerpal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 05:52 Myles wrote:
On April 19 2012 05:10 kerpal wrote:
On April 19 2012 05:04 Myles wrote:
On April 19 2012 04:49 lorkac wrote:
Hypothetically--if someone bought the bodlien library in Oxford and began burning the books to cook his meals with--should we be okay with it because it's his property anyway?

Sure, because obviously Oxford didn't think the books important enough to save.

to play the hypothetical devil's advocate in this hypothetically parallel hypothetical arguement - isn't the knowledge contained within them the property of more than just whoever owns the books and library?

also, what if this were an art gallery? i remember there was a discussion about one artist who (as an exhibition) destroyed all of his posessions, including works of art he had purchased from other artists.

I don't think so. If that is the case, then we need to outlaw personal possession of works of knowledge since it being personal property gives them exclusive rights to do with it as they please.

As far as the art gallery, I can understand some outrage if he bought them up with the plan to destroy them and without the original owners knowing that, but besides that I feel the same as above.

yeah. i think i'm with you, but with reservations..

suppose someone were to destroy knowledge that would have bettered the human race? actually I remember hearing somewhere (i'm full of hearsay tonight.. don't know where it's all come from) that oil companies buy up patents for more fuel efficient engines like this and then do nothing with the patent in order to keep us reliant on them. Don't know if that's true.

this is getting off topic, I don't think religious iconography is this important, but is there a point at which something is so valuable that people shouldn't have the right to destroy it even if they legally own it?
i feel like that's a more interesting debate.

If someone bought a library or an art museum an everything in it he can burn the whole thing down, it is his physical property. To solve your patent problem, intellectual property should be public information, and the private sector should deal in the physical. Then no one can destroy information (as everyone legally owns and has it) and people can do whatever they want with their shit.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
Funguuuuu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States198 Posts
April 18 2012 22:23 GMT
#153
Its not a big deal. Churches and crosses aren't sacred by themselves, what should matter is the meaning attributed to them.
The night is dark and full of Terrans
mindsnare
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia4 Posts
April 19 2012 00:02 GMT
#154
Hi folks.

I'm the one who posted the pictures of the house. The house belongs to my dad and his partner who bought it a few years ago and turned it into a home. I posted it in the atheism subreddit because I thought atheists wouldn't be offended by such a thing and think it was a cool idea. Little did I know how many Christians lurk on this subreddit. If you're offended by this...well I guess I apologise. But the simple fact is that this was done because it fits with the aesthetics of the house, not to show anyone up or stick it to the big man or anything. This church is in Australia and I guess it's just not thought of as an issue here. Pretty sure the original church goers wouldn't be too fussed either. They're Presbyterian's, it's not their bag to get riled up about such things.

All I can tell you is it's a fantastic LAN house.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-19 00:14:11
April 19 2012 00:13 GMT
#155
On April 19 2012 09:02 mindsnare wrote:
Hi folks.

I'm the one who posted the pictures of the house. The house belongs to my dad and his partner who bought it a few years ago and turned it into a home. I posted it in the atheism subreddit because I thought atheists wouldn't be offended by such a thing and think it was a cool idea. Little did I know how many Christians lurk on this subreddit. If you're offended by this...well I guess I apologise. But the simple fact is that this was done because it fits with the aesthetics of the house, not to show anyone up or stick it to the big man or anything. This church is in Australia and I guess it's just not thought of as an issue here. Pretty sure the original church goers wouldn't be too fussed either. They're Presbyterian's, it's not their bag to get riled up about such things.

All I can tell you is it's a fantastic LAN house.

did you read the thread? you're probably safe from the mob with pitchforks for now, But only if you say 50 ave-marias while walking counter-clockwise around where the baptismal font used to be. And then pass wind in the direction of mecca.
mindsnare
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia4 Posts
April 19 2012 00:18 GMT
#156
On April 19 2012 09:13 kerpal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 09:02 mindsnare wrote:
Hi folks.

I'm the one who posted the pictures of the house. The house belongs to my dad and his partner who bought it a few years ago and turned it into a home. I posted it in the atheism subreddit because I thought atheists wouldn't be offended by such a thing and think it was a cool idea. Little did I know how many Christians lurk on this subreddit. If you're offended by this...well I guess I apologise. But the simple fact is that this was done because it fits with the aesthetics of the house, not to show anyone up or stick it to the big man or anything. This church is in Australia and I guess it's just not thought of as an issue here. Pretty sure the original church goers wouldn't be too fussed either. They're Presbyterian's, it's not their bag to get riled up about such things.

All I can tell you is it's a fantastic LAN house.

did you read the thread? you're probably safe from the mob with pitchforks for now, But only if you say 50 ave-marias while walking counter-clockwise around where the baptismal font used to be. And then pass wind in the direction of mecca.



Yeah wasn't so much talking about this thread, mainly the original Reddit post. One super crazy in particular said "Desecrate the cross, and God will lay a metastasized cancer on you". Nice chap.
Meta
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States6225 Posts
April 19 2012 00:19 GMT
#157
Best use of a cross I've ever seen. Christianity should take note, if it was more fun maybe more people would go to church.
good vibes only
Mvrio
Profile Joined July 2011
689 Posts
April 19 2012 00:21 GMT
#158
that's weak, if I get a church I'm turning it into my dream dance studio
On October 03 2011 Jinsho wrote: Everyone is just a speck of fly dirt on the wall compared to Greg playing at his best :D
Arkless
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1547 Posts
April 19 2012 00:21 GMT
#159
Desecrate is a strong word. Personally, I lol'd pretty hard when I saw that they converted it into a pool cue holder. Pretty Smart actually, but I'm not religious at all. I just kind of feel like people are way to sensitive. Like does this really matter in the scheme of things? It's inside his own place, you didn't do it. So mind your own business.
http://www.mixcloud.com/Arkless/ http://www.soundcloud.com/Arkless
mindsnare
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia4 Posts
April 19 2012 00:25 GMT
#160
FYI Such a good LAN house
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