On April 15 2012 23:04 Spikeke wrote: I don't eat dog, never have. While growing up, the idea of eating a dog never came up. As a child I was taught that some animals are for food and some are not (pets). Dogs were more seen as a pet or toy for entertainment and companionship, not a food. Meat comes in all varities and flavours. I was never taught that "meat is meat" as some people say, and quite honestly I would so prefer a Steak over some hotdog meat... I don't care what people eat, as much as I don't care for people smoking. If you want to eat whatever, go for it. :D
You are subject to the dominant ideology of Carnism!
Carnism is the invisible belief system, or ideology, that conditions people to eat certain animals. Carnism is essentially the opposite of vegetarianism or veganism; “carn” means “flesh” or “of the flesh” and “ism” denotes a belief system. Most people view eating animals as a given, rather than a choice; in meat-eating cultures around the world people typically don’t think about why they find the meat of some animals disgusting and the meat of other animals appetizing, or why they eat any animals at all. But when eating animals isn’t a necessity for survival, as is the case in the majority of the world today, it is a choice - and choices always stem from beliefs (Source).
Watch this youtube video titled "Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows: An Introduction to Carnism" to get a better idea of what I am talking about!
read first page and couldnt be bothered to read 17 pages of the same stuff so heres my 2c
The eating of any food is defined by the culture your brought up in, If your culture seems acceptable and its a normal thing then you wouldnt think about it , in some countries meat is just meat.. me being from the UK means my normal food is pig , lamb, and cows ..
Dog is not part of my normal diet however i dont normally eat turtle or any of the other weird asian food that i have come across on my travels.. does it mean i am against it? no eat what you want
I would say the usual "taboo" aspect of eating dog meat is that we can create bonds so much easily with them than other animals, they are loyal, intelligent, even cute if you wish. The main issue isn't "eating dog meat is bad, just because" the problem goes far beyond because you feel bad about it, since you can relate to the experience of loving a dog (specially in the Western culture, in which dogs have been a faithful companion for thousands of years) there is absoloutley nothing wrong with it, it just feels plainly sad/disgusted, also the way they produce them is flawed (as mostly any animal in any country, despise the fact that unestressed and "happy" animals, have a better taste). I would try it, probably wouldnt integrate it as a regular diet though. Eating cats goes along the exact same logic in my opinion.
On April 15 2012 08:52 Redox wrote: Dogs are highly social animals. They have not been bred to live under the conditions of mass livestock farming. They just go mad if kept under certain conditions, it is animal cruelty. One just has to look up certain videos from China to know what is the problem with farming dogs.
Really, now society cares about the feelings of the animals we eat?, it's total nonsense you either care about ALL of them or none of them and since nobody really cares about chicken's or pig's feelings, then why would dogs be any different? Chickens are social animals too man but at the end of the day it's just meat, period. Dogs don't care about the feelings of the animals they eat, why would we care for their feelings?
In Europe dogs were commonly eaten up to 50 years ago especially in the countryside. Their fat was used for medical purposes and they were even eaten mostly by poor people that could not afford something else. The taboo aspect came with people getting richer and with dumb media. I would not eat my dot but I'd have no problem eating a dog bred for this purpose.
On April 15 2012 08:52 Redox wrote: Dogs are highly social animals. They have not been bred to live under the conditions of mass livestock farming. They just go mad if kept under certain conditions, it is animal cruelty. One just has to look up certain videos from China to know what is the problem with farming dogs.
Really, now society cares about the feelings of the animals we eat?, it's total nonsense you either care about ALL of them or none of them and since nobody really cares about chicken's or pig's feelings, then why would dogs be any different? Chickens are social animals too man but at the end of the day it's just meat, period. Dogs don't care about the feelings of the animals they eat, why would we care for their feelings?
I agree, and argue the we SHOULD care about the feeling of all animals and thus NOT EAT ANY ANIMALS!!!!
Furthermore, if you really care about animals, then don't eat eggs or dairy! These industries keep animals alive and torture them to feed humans!
On April 15 2012 08:27 NtsenG wrote: so you think its any more or less ok to eat cows or pigs just because they are less cute? lol
No. It isn't necessarily because dogs are "cute", but more to the fact that humans have kept them as pets for thousands of years for their obedience and loyalty. Cattle and live stock have always been a food source and not pets. I do have a biased viewpoint being that my mother is a veterinarian and I work in an animal hospital myself, but our society accepts cats and dogs as companions and not food. Thankfully, our world is changing and people are stopping these old traditions.
Same as horse, but more people are fine with eating horse somehow.
I once ate horse meat in a can and it was a fried rice. Super delicious stuff.
On April 15 2012 20:54 Dyme wrote: "Producing dogs for food" is unethical.
Eating animals already is a kinda big waste of resources; eating animals that eat animals is even worse. And doing this while people are still starving is just wrong.
I feel you make a lot of sense but I might just be too narrow to understand you. Could you please elaborate? And how would you relate it to starvation... Thanks.
Perhaps he is referring to ecological efficiency, in which energy is continually lost (exponentially?) in the transfer to the next trophic level. This means that sun and other energy used by plants to grow is efficient. When animals eat that grass, it is much less efficient. When an animal proceeds to eat the animal that ate that grass, it's horribly inefficient compared to the original producer.
The whole starvation thing appears to be nonsense.
These numbers will be untrue and kinda off: Let's say 500kg corn or soy or whatever pigs eat turn into 100kg pig. And then 100kg pig turn into 20kg dog (because living things lose energy by heat/movement etc.).
Well anyways, plants get more expensive if you use them for these inefficent things, and poor people can't afford them. In the same way that bio-fuel made food more expensive.
We shouldn't use food too inefficiently as long as there a still people who don't have enough food.
I see no difference between eating pigs, dogs or any other animal because they are all animals. I just wouldn't do it because Im not used but I don't mind people doing it.
Well, if you are ok with eating meat, then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to discriminate between meat sources based on "cuteness" (Hotbid says Dog tastes like shit, see above picture). Funnily enough the whole whale/dolphin issue that the western publics are criticising Japan for is, besides the matter of extinction, somewhat related there.
On April 15 2012 08:52 Redox wrote: Dogs are highly social animals. They have not been bred to live under the conditions of mass livestock farming. They just go mad if kept under certain conditions, it is animal cruelty. One just has to look up certain videos from China to know what is the problem with farming dogs.
Really, now society cares about the feelings of the animals we eat?, it's total nonsense you either care about ALL of them or none of them and since nobody really cares about chicken's or pig's feelings, then why would dogs be any different? Chickens are social animals too man but at the end of the day it's just meat, period. Dogs don't care about the feelings of the animals they eat, why would we care for their feelings?
I agree, and argue the we SHOULD care about the feeling of all animals and thus NOT EAT ANY ANIMALS!!!!
Furthermore, if you really care about animals, then don't eat eggs or dairy! These industries keep animals alive and torture them to feed humans!
Why should we care, though? It's logistically impossible to treat all animals as humans. Would you prefer for all the livestock to be killed off and wasted, or should we subsidize the upkeep of the animals without getting any use out of them?
If you look at it reasonably, they can't be given sufficient legal rights to be anything but property, as they're incapable of meeting societally functional levels of legal responsibility. You can't evict them or make them pay rent in any way that wouldn't be considered unethical if they're treated as legal entities.
Ethically, we either kill off entire species, or continue getting use out of them as under the current system. It's not perfect, but I can't see it being better to wipe them all out, and it's not really feasible to keep them around without taking advantage of animal products.
On April 15 2012 08:52 Redox wrote: Dogs are highly social animals. They have not been bred to live under the conditions of mass livestock farming. They just go mad if kept under certain conditions, it is animal cruelty. One just has to look up certain videos from China to know what is the problem with farming dogs.
Really, now society cares about the feelings of the animals we eat?, it's total nonsense you either care about ALL of them or none of them and since nobody really cares about chicken's or pig's feelings, then why would dogs be any different? Chickens are social animals too man but at the end of the day it's just meat, period. Dogs don't care about the feelings of the animals they eat, why would we care for their feelings?
I agree, and argue the we SHOULD care about the feeling of all animals and thus NOT EAT ANY ANIMALS!!!!
Furthermore, if you really care about animals, then don't eat eggs or dairy! These industries keep animals alive and torture them to feed humans!
Communism and feminism necessarily imply that everybody suddenly changes their natural way of thinking to create this utopian society. looks like veggies too LOL.
On April 15 2012 08:52 Redox wrote: I dont have a problem with eating dog meat per se, but for sure with agricultural farming / herding of dogs.There are differences to lets say farming cattle. Dogs are highly social animals. They have not been bred to live under the conditions of mass livestock farming. They just go mad if kept under certain conditions, it is animal cruelty. One just has to look up certain videos from China to know what is the problem with farming dogs.
Same applies to animals like apes, cats or elephants for example.
Not sure how I could miss that post... but... SERIOUSLY?
You are saying that pigs/cows/sheep/chicken have been bred to live under the conditions of mass livestock farming?
You are also saying that they are less social animals than dogs? That they don't go mad under the conditions most of them are living in?
Are you like.. out of your mind? What is your basis for those claims?
I am not okay with eating any animals in general. So, I would have to say that I am not okay with eating dogs. If I could place myself in the scenario that eating meat was okay, I would be indifferent to dog meat versus other meats. However, I can't view animals on the same plane. There is a hierarchy of well being that would entitle animals to not be eaten. Although difficult to decipher, it is there. This list isn't exact, nor did I place too much time into it; this is just an example:
You get the point. As a vegetarian working toward vegan--I consume dairy products maybe 2 times a week--I draw the line probably at insects, maybe rats, but these areas are grey. I wouldn't be for thoughtless killing of these rats, but if science came into play to better mankind, I would be okay with it; however, not so much when it comes down to the higher spectrum of the list.
On April 15 2012 23:53 Competent wrote: I am not okay with eating any animals in general. So, I would have to say that I am not okay with eating dogs. If I could place myself in the scenario that eating meat was okay, I would be indifferent to dog meat versus other meats. However, I can't view animals on the same plane. There is a hierarchy of well being that would entitle animals to not be eaten. Although difficult to decipher, it is there. This list isn't exact, nor did I place too much time into it; this is just an example:
You get the point. As a vegetarian working toward vegan--I consume dairy products maybe 2 times a week--I draw the line probably at insects, maybe rats, but these areas are grey. I wouldn't be for thoughtless killing of these rats, but if science came into play to better mankind, I would be okay with it; however, not so much when it comes down to the higher spectrum of the list.
So what you are implying is, that your decisition to be a vegetarian is based on feelings because you are indiffirent to rats and other lower life forms. Honestly I don't want to insult your feelings but it seems a little irrational to me to act such a way and then say you are indifferent to rats just because you don't like them.
Mmh. I honestly don't really mind people eating dog meat. I would be reluctant to the idea but i guess i could be convinced to do so myself. Having said that i must mention that i do not have a dog. The main problem that i have with this is how was the dog raised / treated / killed. For instance, i can probably see myself eating another human if i have to do so in order to survive and if he is already dead, but i can't even picture a human killing another human for food, nor do i see myself eating someone's leg unless required to survive. But we are talking about treating it as "yet another type of meat" so i guess it's similar to horse meat in that regard. Animal cruelty is my main concern here. I'd say pigs / cows / chicken are not treated too well either but i can't really do much of anything about that can i ? It's also worth mentionning that i eat meat because i feel like my body needs both to be healthy, if i woke up and my teeth looked like that of a tiger i'd stop eating salad / tomatoes etc ... altogether and i'd only ever feed on meat, because that's what i'd need. The same way, if i seriously belived that humans should eat vegetables only i'd stop feeding on other mammals.
All in all i'm fine with it, i feel like " eating pigs is acceptable because they're raised that way but not dogs because we also use them as pets " is a bit hypocritical, i mean they're all animals, sure there's a food chain but you can't really say that a dog's life is worth more than a pig's.
TLDR : I'm fine with other people eating dog meat. I don't like the idea but could be convinced to try and would definately do it if my survival depended on it. I'm only worried about animal cruelty.
On April 15 2012 23:53 Competent wrote: I am not okay with eating any animals in general. So, I would have to say that I am not okay with eating dogs. If I could place myself in the scenario that eating meat was okay, I would be indifferent to dog meat versus other meats. However, I can't view animals on the same plane. There is a hierarchy of well being that would entitle animals to not be eaten. Although difficult to decipher, it is there. This list isn't exact, nor did I place too much time into it; this is just an example:
You get the point. As a vegetarian working toward vegan--I consume dairy products maybe 2 times a week--I draw the line probably at insects, maybe rats, but these areas are grey. I wouldn't be for thoughtless killing of these rats, but if science came into play to better mankind, I would be okay with it; however, not so much when it comes down to the higher spectrum of the list.
Your list is strange. Pigs are quite a bit smarter then dogs and equally social. Rats are roughly as intelligent as dogs are too and chickens are probably not much worse.
I eat just about anything on that list except for primates (I like them) and dolphins (not for sale)
I mean, dogs were specifically bread by humans for companionship and other tasks, so eating them feels like betraying them. Unlike cows, pigs, chickens, etc.
So what you are implying is, that your decisition to be a vegetarian is based on feelings because you are indiffirent to rats and other lower life forms. Honestly I don't want to insult your feelings but it seems a little irrational to me to act such a way and then say you are indifferent to rats just because you don't like them.
Well, I guess you could go back to my post and tell me where I said I didn't like rats. I actually love the little creatures. I had many rodents as pets growing up. A few of which were white mice--among other hamsters, gerbils, and a chinchilla. My reason for being vegetarian is based on animal well being. Primates/dogs/dolphins can suffer more so than rats. This is the only reason I would permit experiments on rats, but not thoughtless abuse--or the consumption of. And ONLY if it was for the greater good.
There is a hierarchy of well being that would entitle animals to not be eaten.
My cut off line in the hierarchy just happens to be very low, right below rodents. I should probably also add that I do not kill bugs. Every insect I find in my house I go out of my way to cup them, and release them outside. My boss also finds me intolerable, especially when I feel compelled to stop work and take the beetle or moth I find outside. The list might seem conflicting with this, but I don't really view the insects well being in this process, just mere fascination and respect is what fuels my rescuing of them.
On April 16 2012 00:04 Lann555 wrote:
Your list is strange. Pigs are quite a bit smarter then dogs and equally social. Rats are roughly as intelligent as dogs are too and chickens are probably not much worse.
I eat just about anything on that list except for primates (I like them) and dolphins (not for sale)
They are actually not as intelligent. How closely intelligent is debatable. And if you didn't read, I said the list is not accurate and was put together swiftly.
This list isn't exact, nor did I place too much time into it; this is just an example:
EPT
