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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
On July 14 2013 06:57 dAPhREAk wrote: oh shit, they want clarifications on the instructions regarding manslaughter. zimmerman is fucked. Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. Edit: oh hey, look. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. I agree. but Florida law is really fucking stupid | ||
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rasnj
United States1959 Posts
On July 14 2013 06:43 GreenHorizons wrote: If GZ is found not guilty I expect "justifiable" homicides in Florida to rise significantly. It will be totally legal for you to follow someone to their home convince them to hit you or hit them if no one is looking. start losing the fight (or in many peoples eyes here just get punched back) then it is reasonable to shoot the person you were fighting. Or better yet just shoot the guy for punching you in the first place since it's been hammered home that a small bump to the head is potentially life threatening. You seem to be intentially twisting the facts to fit your views. If you are against the stand your ground law, then fine, that is totally justifiably and there has plenty of debate over it. However it is not legal to follow someone to their home with the intent of shooting them (even if you take punches in the process). Now of course if no witnesses are around, and you have good reasons and can argue that you reasonably feared for your life then you might walk, but that also applies to straight up first degree murder, and that does not make it legal. It was never about whether the punches (definitely plural) GZ had sustained were life threatening, it was about the reasonable expectation that he should fear for his life if he didn't do something to stop it. According to GZ's testimony, which has not been contradicted, Trayvon said something to the effect that GZ was going to die. If you have the opportunity to run away, if the guy clearly backs of after getting the upper hand, or if you are clearly a better fighter and your victim does not have weapons, then the situation is very different. If you go to someone's house with the intent of assaulting them, then you will be at least charged with whatever sort of crime you do then, even if your later actions are excused by self-defense (and self-defense is not a silver-bullet defense like you seem to claim). So according to many people here if someone starts a fight it is totally justified for either party of a fight to shoot the other one. If the other party escalates the level of aggression and gains the upper hand and is not looking to stop, and is using enough force that you reasonably fear for your life, then yes legally it is justified. So with the idea that someone can punch you then you punch them back they fear for their life and they shoot you, the only sensible thing is not to fight back but shoot anyone who punches you before they shoot you for punching them. Nope. It is not reasonably to fear for your life over a single punch, and if they are only matching your punch, then certainly not. Now if he pulls out a knife, or start punching you repeatedly in the head after you punched him in the chest, then maybe, assuming you do not have the opportunity to run away. And before you ask, no you cannot lie down and then shoot him from that position because you couldn't run away after putting yourself in that position. Besides the fact that many people have maintained it doesn't matter who actually started the fight, there is no reason GZ's accounts should be taken seriously. He clearly has left out the actual facts leading up to the fight in every presentation so what actually happened in those moments is most definitely incriminating to GZ otherwise there would be no reason to lie about it and leave it out. You can forget, or be embarrased, or maybe lie to get out of an assault charge. Plenty of people lie about all kinds of stuff, that does not mean you should assume the worst and in a court of law you should not judge based on the worst situation consistent with the evidence. You need to prove beyound reasonable doubt that GZ did something before you can punish him, you can't just say that he can't prove he didn't or that you are sure he did something bad so he may always be punished for murder. In any case I don't think I recall significant issues with GZ's story. | ||
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Kris312
United States70 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. Edit: oh hey, look. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there like a 20 year minimum sentence in Florida for manslaughter? I wouldn't consider that relatively light if that's the case. | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On July 14 2013 06:57 dAPhREAk wrote: oh shit, they want clarifications on the instructions regarding manslaughter. zimmerman is fucked. If they are considering manslaughter, does that have to mean that they don't believe his self defense? | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. Edit: oh hey, look. how long is relatively light? I don't know much about law so manslaughter sounds like a lifetime in jail kinda thing to me. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. people in this thread are about to have their cherries popped and see how the real world works. juries do whatever the fuck they want; law be damned. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22710 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. Edit: oh hey, look. Except as far as i understand there is no "light" sentence. its 20 to life if hes found guilty of pretty much anything due to state laws regarding gun laws. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. Edit: oh hey, look. Minimum sentence he'll get with the gun and age enhancements for manslaughter is, I believe, 25 or 30 years. Minimum. Is that "light" ? | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:04 dAPhREAk wrote: people in this thread are about to have their cherries popped and see how the real world works. juries do whatever the fuck they want; law be damned. That is so scary. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:04 Vin{MBL} wrote: If they are considering manslaughter, does that have to mean that they don't believe his self defense? they are asking for clarification. i am not sure exactly what. they may want to know whether self defense negates manslaughter. at least murder 2 appears to be off the table, which is good for the zman. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22710 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:04 dAPhREAk wrote: people in this thread are about to have their cherries popped and see how the real world works. juries do whatever the fuck they want; law be damned. Probably why most of the world stopped using them ^^ | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:04 dAPhREAk wrote: people in this thread are about to have their cherries popped and see how the real world works. juries do whatever the fuck they want; law be damned. Oh so true. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24518 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:02 farvacola wrote: Cue "im so disgusted with the judge/DA." comments. A manslaughter charge with a relatively light sentence seems reasonable. Edit: oh hey, look. Oh yeah they will come in droves...don't forget those jurors who don't understand the law and must 'be high'.... | ||
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DrSeRRoD
United States490 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46724 Posts
Is that on purpose? | ||
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boredrex
United States137 Posts
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Kris312
United States70 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:07 boredrex wrote: did they say 20 minutes? I completely missed it 30 | ||
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DrSeRRoD
United States490 Posts
On July 14 2013 07:07 boredrex wrote: did they say 20 minutes? I completely missed it 30 minute recess. | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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