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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
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czylu
477 Posts
On July 03 2013 13:16 Krohm wrote: Which I don't think is possible given John Good's eye witness account. not a lawyer so i'm not sure, but i think it's not so much proving that it's not self-defense, as it is proving that it was criminally negligent for him to have carried the gun and shot the kid. | ||
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ConGee
318 Posts
On July 03 2013 14:13 czylu wrote: not a lawyer so i'm not sure, but i think it's not so much proving that it's not self-defense, as it is proving that it was criminally negligent for him to have carried the gun and shot the kid. Not even close. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On July 03 2013 14:13 czylu wrote: not a lawyer so i'm not sure, but i think it's not so much proving that it's not self-defense, as it is proving that it was criminally negligent for him to have carried the gun and shot the kid. The facts of the case are such that if he's not guilty of manslaughter, then it's because it was self-defense. There is nothing wrong with Zimmerman having the gun. It comes down to whether he was justified in using it. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
This should be news to absolutely nobody. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On July 03 2013 11:36 Akasha wrote: I know you wrote that this was an un-PC explanation but you essentially denied a lot of black people's experiences with authority as if it was unwarranted or doesn't exist. When you grow up with a situation where the people you thought were going to protect you, automatically think you are suspicious that trust is damaged. I absolutely believe minorities, and particularly Black people, experience overt discrimination and are subjected to systemic racism throughout their lives. And of course, there's are plenty of instances where Blacks are persecuted or treatly unjustly by the police. But I don't equate the identity of being Black exclusively with Hip Hop culture, and I'm certain a great deal of people in the Black community don't either. Popular Hip Hop glorifies drugs, sexual objectification, violence and anti-authority paranoia. Hell, you can say the same about psychedelic Hippie culture in the 60's, or shitty rap-rock in the 90's. And young people do model their behaviour off these fantasies. That being said, there's a world of grassroots, conscious, socially-empowering Hip Hop that most people never see or experience because it doesn't sell. And it does feel like the trends and fashions in popular Hip Hop are changing, as popular artists are aging and maturing. I guess what I'm saying is that Hip Hop traditionally served as a force of catharsis, protest and communication, like all art. But that tradition has been commercialized and perverted, and is partially to blame for glamourizing anti-social behaviour for the sake of being anti-social. And like all shit kids are into these days, that's immature. I don't see Trayvon as a gangbanger or criminal, but as a reckless teen that based his identity on the most immature and superficial elements of Hip Hop culture, and as a result reacted to a perceived threat in the stupidest way possible. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On July 03 2013 13:58 Millitron wrote: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think censorship is a good thing now. This should never have been allowed to air. The 24-hour news cycle is the most despicable human institution in history. Can we please get rid of the First Amendment? The consistency of this character assassination is grounds to sue for libel. See: Richard Jewell. | ||
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zbedlam
Australia549 Posts
On July 03 2013 14:34 Kaitlin wrote: http://www.infowars.com/sanford-police-chief-fears-violence-in-response-to-zimmerman-verdict/ This should be news to absolutely nobody. LOL just went to that site and the ads were bunkers for your family and bulletproof apparel. | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On July 03 2013 11:49 Kaitlin wrote: Ok, y'all. I promised this was worth watching. I've just found it on Youtube. Pretty much sums up the case, imo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz6ufmsyc-U I expect this woman to be the state's next witness | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 03 2013 20:30 zbedlam wrote: LOL just went to that site and the ads were bunkers for your family and bulletproof apparel. I wouldn't trust that story to be completely grounded in reality. | ||
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FatChicksUnited
Canada214 Posts
On July 03 2013 12:23 Kaitlin wrote: Interview on AC360 with O'Mara. Insight into tomorrow, as far as Zimmerman's criminal justice textbook. Apparently we're going to hear that the Stand Your Ground wasn't regarding Florida Law, but probably a general concept not attributed to Florida's actual law. edit: Also, O'Mara said they have a lot of witnesses to counter the sort of innuendo put on by the prosecution, so they will put on a case (as opposed to not calling any witnesses and immediately resting), assuming this gets past a directed verdict. I want to also point out that O'Mara estimated that the prosecution likely finishes up today or Friday, and that the defence will take 3-4 days next week, depending on what evidence they will be allowed to put forth. He specifically mentioned Trayvon's history of fighting as one thing he was prepared to present if possible. | ||
Akasha
United States261 Posts
On July 03 2013 16:01 Defacer wrote: I absolutely believe minorities, and particularly Black people, experience overt discrimination and are subjected to systemic racism throughout their lives. And of course, there's are plenty of instances where Blacks are persecuted or treatly unjustly by the police. But I don't equate the identity of being Black exclusively with Hip Hop culture, and I'm certain a great deal of people in the Black community don't either. Popular Hip Hop glorifies drugs, sexual objectification, violence and anti-authority paranoia. Hell, you can say the same about psychedelic Hippie culture in the 60's, or shitty rap-rock in the 90's. And young people do model their behaviour off these fantasies. That being said, there's a world of grassroots, conscious, socially-empowering Hip Hop that most people never see or experience because it doesn't sell. And it does feel like the trends and fashions in popular Hip Hop are changing, as popular artists are aging and maturing. I guess what I'm saying is that Hip Hop traditionally served as a force of catharsis, protest and communication, like all art. But that tradition has been commercialized and perverted, and is partially to blame for glamourizing anti-social behaviour for the sake of being anti-social. And like all shit kids are into these days, that's immature. I don't see Trayvon as a gangbanger or criminal, but as a reckless teen that based his identity on the most immature and superficial elements of Hip Hop culture, and as a result reacted to a perceived threat in the stupidest way possible. Yeah I agree with this. Sorry for jumping on your statement in particular. As a black person, combing through this thread I see some generalizations/ignorance coupled with thoughtful commentary so I wanted to explain a very minor aspect of my culture. Today is probably going to be an interesting day if they do submit parts of Z's coursework and how well he did on that. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 03 2013 21:24 Akasha wrote: Yeah I agree with this. Sorry for jumping on your statement in particular. As a black person, combing through this thread I see some generalizations/ignorance coupled with thoughtful commentary so I wanted to explain a very minor aspect of my culture. Today is probably going to be an interesting day if they do submit parts of Z's coursework and how well he did on that. Most of the folks in this thread are grumpy at the media for how the event was reported. I followed the case in the news and I was shocked at how bad the coverage was on basic details from the trial when I came to this thread. Even at this point, the news is still glossing over facts, making it seem like Zimmerman was following Treyvon at the time of the attack and leaving out details from entire witnesses. If you read the news reports today, you wouldn't even know John Good exists. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On July 03 2013 21:19 Plansix wrote: I wouldn't trust that story to be completely grounded in reality. Yeah, the site was covered in ads for ammo, bullet proof backpacks, other paranoid nutcase paraphernalia. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23613 Posts
On July 03 2013 22:09 xDaunt wrote: C'mon O'Mara. It's rather bush league to not be prepared to argue the case law when the judge says that it was going to be argued in the morning. Yeah since he lost the argument about the officer believing GZ to be truthful he's hit a bit of a rough patch in his personal performance... Seem's like for one reason or another he's pushed the judges buttons a bit too. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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FatChicksUnited
Canada214 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Felnarion
442 Posts
On July 03 2013 23:25 xDaunt wrote: I'm trying to decide whether West's questioning of this teacher is intentionally terrible to make an argument to the jury that he's otherwise not allowed to make or just plain terrible because he doesn't really understand how to properly phrase the questions. Of course its intentionally terrible to make his argument. Its painful to listen to. | ||
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