Don't see how some racist people talking about how evil cops are is relevant to this topic.
I think Kaitlin was wondering out loud a few pages back whether or not, in light of this situation, if any black leaders would step up and talk about how young black people have to improve their behaviour to avoid the kind of conflict that Trayvon (allegedly) instigated and got killed for.
Or something like that. I apologize for putting words in Kaitlin's mouth.
On a not unrelated note, law enforcement officers have to undergo extensive training on how to avoid being shot by black thugs and gangsters that they pull over in routine traffic stops. A lot of times, even these measures are unsuccessful.
you are supposed to turn off the car, remove the keys from the ignition and put your hands on the top of the wheel. im white and thats what i learned.
I think the point Lavar is making is that innocent black people have ended up dead as a result of latent and subconscious racism/prejudice.
As a preventative measure for him and his child, he encourages the practice of doing everything possible to prevent someone who may or may not harbor those from causing harm to himself or his son, and then claiming it was the result of something the innocent person did.
Not to mention there are enough cases of those cops receiving administrative leave or at worst losing their jobs to have doubts that the justice system can be relied on to provide justice and to error on the side of caution. The last comment from another guest put into context that for some people that understanding of reality doesn't exist or seem important because it's not how they have experienced the world.
Hip Hop/Black culture increasingly villifies authority, law enforcement and breeds resentment towards 'the man' or status quo (white culture).
You can argue that at first, in the 80's and 90's, it was catharis in the form of art, in light of actual discrimination or institutionalized racism or poverty that the Black community was suffering. But now you have a whole generation of black kids that have been grown up surrounded by hip hop culture at birth. They don't realize that when Snoop Dog raps about pimping or Public Enemy talks about how much the police suck, it's intended to be satirical or humorous with a grain a truth.
It's not intended to be the basis of your beliefs or lifestyle, the same way when Louis CK jokes about rape he's not actually encouraging people to rape. And it doesn't help that you have a generation of hip hop artists that saw how well gangland fairy tales and violence sold and made it their brand.
This is my long way of saying that, as silly or un-PC as it sounds, you do need to explain to black youth (or young people in general) how act appropriately and how to deal with conflict with maturity.
As far as Trayvon was concerned, he probably thought he was just 'keeping it real' and reacting in a way that would be considered normal at school or among his friends — which is to throw down when someone is in your face.
On July 03 2013 10:45 GreenHorizons wrote: I think the point Lavar is making is that innocent black people have ended up dead as a result of latent and subconscious racism/prejudice.
Or that doing everything you can to show yourself as non-threatening, even if you've done nothing wrong, is a small sacrifice to make and not worth losing your life over. Something that may have helped Trayvon. We will likely never know what really happened in the confrontation, so I say "may".
you are supposed to turn off the car, remove the keys from the ignition and put your hands on the top of the wheel. im white and thats what i learned.
I think the point Lavar is making is that innocent black people have ended up dead as a result of latent and subconscious racism/prejudice.
As a preventative measure for him and his child, he encourages the practice of doing everything possible to prevent someone who may or may not harbor those from causing harm to himself or his son, and then claiming it was the result of something the innocent person did.
Not to mention there are enough cases of those cops receiving administrative leave or at worst losing their jobs to have doubts that the justice system can be relied on to provide justice and to error on the side of caution. The last comment from another guest put into context that for some people that understanding of reality doesn't exist or seem important because it's not how they have experienced the world.
the point i was making is that its not limited to black people--all people should take steps to put cops at ease. i think putting your hands out the window is drastic and unnecessary, but whatever floats his boat.
On July 03 2013 10:45 GreenHorizons wrote: I think the point Lavar is making is that innocent black people have ended up dead as a result of latent and subconscious racism/prejudice.
Or that doing everything you can to show yourself as non-threatening, even if you've done nothing wrong, is a small sacrifice to make and not worth losing your life over. Something that may have helped Trayvon. We will likely never know what really happened in the confrontation, so I say "may".
You could just as easily say the same for Zimmerman. Although, Zimmerman is a legal adult which bears with it additional responsibilities and expectations.
you are supposed to turn off the car, remove the keys from the ignition and put your hands on the top of the wheel. im white and thats what i learned.
I think the point Lavar is making is that innocent black people have ended up dead as a result of latent and subconscious racism/prejudice.
As a preventative measure for him and his child, he encourages the practice of doing everything possible to prevent someone who may or may not harbor those from causing harm to himself or his son, and then claiming it was the result of something the innocent person did.
Not to mention there are enough cases of those cops receiving administrative leave or at worst losing their jobs to have doubts that the justice system can be relied on to provide justice and to error on the side of caution. The last comment from another guest put into context that for some people that understanding of reality doesn't exist or seem important because it's not how they have experienced the world.
the point i was making is that its not limited to black people--all people should take steps to put cops at ease. i think putting your hands out the window is drastic and unnecessary, but whatever floats his boat.
It's not a matter of whether it's unique to black people it's the extent, frequency, and justifications for it's necessity (or lack there of) that sets it apart.
On July 03 2013 10:52 Defacer wrote: Hip Hop/Black culture increasingly villifies authority, law enforcement and breeds resentment towards 'the man' or status quo (white culture).
You can argue that at first, in the 80's and 90's, it was catharis in the form of art, in light of actual discrimination or institutionalized racism or poverty that the Black community was suffering. But now you have a whole generation of black kids that have been grown up surrounded by hip hop culture at birth. They don't realize that when Snoop Dog raps about pimping or Public Enemy talks about how much the police suck, it's intended to be satirical or humorous with a grain a truth.
It's not intended to be the basis of your beliefs or lifestyle, the same way when Louis CK jokes about rape he's not actually encouraging people to rape. And it doesn't help that you have a generation of hip hop artists that saw how well gangland fairy tales and violence sold and made it their brand.
This is my long way of saying that, as silly or un-PC as it sounds, you do need to explain to black youth (or young people in general) how act appropriately and how to deal with conflict with maturity.
As far as Trayvon was concerned, he probably thought he was just 'keeping it real' and reacting in a way that would be considered normal at school or among his friends — which is to throw down when someone in your face.
I know you wrote that this was an un-PC explanation but you essentially denied a lot of black people's experiences with authority as if it was unwarranted or doesn't exist. When you grow up with a situation where the people you thought were going to protect you, automatically think you are suspicious that trust is damaged.
On July 02 2013 11:40 Kaitlin wrote: Anybody watching HLN After Dark right now ? Hilarious.
edit:
They did a little hypothetical walkthrough on what they think happened. One Trayvon supporter created some outlandish scenario involving Zimmerman recruiting a neighbor to help stage the scene, denying any scuffle took place, and two shots fired. Unbelievable that they actually put this shit on tv.
Ok, y'all. I promised this was worth watching. I've just found it on Youtube. Pretty much sums up the case, imo.
On July 02 2013 11:40 Kaitlin wrote: Anybody watching HLN After Dark right now ? Hilarious.
edit:
They did a little hypothetical walkthrough on what they think happened. One Trayvon supporter created some outlandish scenario involving Zimmerman recruiting a neighbor to help stage the scene, denying any scuffle took place, and two shots fired. Unbelievable that they actually put this shit on tv.
Ok, y'all. I promised this was worth watching. I've just found it on Youtube. Pretty much sums up the case, imo.
On July 03 2013 10:52 Defacer wrote: Hip Hop/Black culture increasingly villifies authority, law enforcement and breeds resentment towards 'the man' or status quo (white culture).
You can argue that at first, in the 80's and 90's, it was catharis in the form of art, in light of actual discrimination or institutionalized racism or poverty that the Black community was suffering. But now you have a whole generation of black kids that have been grown up surrounded by hip hop culture at birth. They don't realize that when Snoop Dog raps about pimping or Public Enemy talks about how much the police suck, it's intended to be satirical or humorous with a grain a truth.
It's not intended to be the basis of your beliefs or lifestyle, the same way when Louis CK jokes about rape he's not actually encouraging people to rape. And it doesn't help that you have a generation of hip hop artists that saw how well gangland fairy tales and violence sold and made it their brand.
This is my long way of saying that, as silly or un-PC as it sounds, you do need to explain to black youth (or young people in general) how act appropriately and how to deal with conflict with maturity.
As far as Trayvon was concerned, he probably thought he was just 'keeping it real' and reacting in a way that would be considered normal at school or among his friends — which is to throw down when someone in your face.
I know you wrote that this was an un-PC explanation but you essentially denied a lot of black people's experiences with authority as if it was unwarranted or doesn't exist. When you grow up with a situation where the people you thought were going to protect you, automatically think you are suspicious that trust is damaged.
It's not as if a great deal of black people grow up with the impression that the authorities exist to protect them. A great deal of black people are diligently taught the exact opposite: that the authorities despise them on the grounds of their skin color alone and that the white world is a giant conspiracy to keep them disempowered. There is no moment of betrayal for young people in those situations, only a predictable pattern of anti-social behavior.
On July 02 2013 11:40 Kaitlin wrote: Anybody watching HLN After Dark right now ? Hilarious.
edit:
They did a little hypothetical walkthrough on what they think happened. One Trayvon supporter created some outlandish scenario involving Zimmerman recruiting a neighbor to help stage the scene, denying any scuffle took place, and two shots fired. Unbelievable that they actually put this shit on tv.
Ok, y'all. I promised this was worth watching. I've just found it on Youtube. Pretty much sums up the case, imo.
Interview on AC360 with O'Mara. Insight into tomorrow, as far as Zimmerman's criminal justice textbook. Apparently we're going to hear that the Stand Your Ground wasn't regarding Florida Law, but probably a general concept not attributed to Florida's actual law.
edit: Also, O'Mara said they have a lot of witnesses to counter the sort of innuendo put on by the prosecution, so they will put on a case (as opposed to not calling any witnesses and immediately resting), assuming this gets past a directed verdict.
On July 03 2013 10:52 Defacer wrote: Hip Hop/Black culture increasingly villifies authority, law enforcement and breeds resentment towards 'the man' or status quo (white culture).
You can argue that at first, in the 80's and 90's, it was catharis in the form of art, in light of actual discrimination or institutionalized racism or poverty that the Black community was suffering. But now you have a whole generation of black kids that have been grown up surrounded by hip hop culture at birth. They don't realize that when Snoop Dog raps about pimping or Public Enemy talks about how much the police suck, it's intended to be satirical or humorous with a grain a truth.
It's not intended to be the basis of your beliefs or lifestyle, the same way when Louis CK jokes about rape he's not actually encouraging people to rape. And it doesn't help that you have a generation of hip hop artists that saw how well gangland fairy tales and violence sold and made it their brand.
This is my long way of saying that, as silly or un-PC as it sounds, you do need to explain to black youth (or young people in general) how act appropriately and how to deal with conflict with maturity.
As far as Trayvon was concerned, he probably thought he was just 'keeping it real' and reacting in a way that would be considered normal at school or among his friends — which is to throw down when someone in your face.
I know you wrote that this was an un-PC explanation but you essentially denied a lot of black people's experiences with authority as if it was unwarranted or doesn't exist. When you grow up with a situation where the people you thought were going to protect you, automatically think you are suspicious that trust is damaged.
It's not as if a great deal of black people grow up with the impression that the authorities exist to protect them. A great deal of black people are diligently taught the exact opposite: that the authorities despise them on the grounds of their skin color alone and that the white world is a giant conspiracy to keep them disempowered. There is no moment of betrayal for young people in those situations, only a predictable pattern of anti-social behavior.
True, it wasn't that long ago when majority of the black community could not trust or depend on police officers. I don't believe my family ever had that problem or were sheltered from it so it was never passed down to me.
I realize I let my own experiences with authority, which only happened twice and were not a big deal, muddled my statement.
On July 03 2013 13:10 Sabu113 wrote: Hearing more talk about manslaughter being the most viable option now. What would state need to prove to get manslaughter to stick?
Well, pretty much just not self-defense, since he admitted to shooting him.
On July 03 2013 13:10 Sabu113 wrote: Hearing more talk about manslaughter being the most viable option now. What would state need to prove to get manslaughter to stick?
Well, pretty much just not self-defense, since he admitted to shooting him.
Which I don't think is possible given John Good's eye witness account.
On July 02 2013 11:40 Kaitlin wrote: Anybody watching HLN After Dark right now ? Hilarious.
edit:
They did a little hypothetical walkthrough on what they think happened. One Trayvon supporter created some outlandish scenario involving Zimmerman recruiting a neighbor to help stage the scene, denying any scuffle took place, and two shots fired. Unbelievable that they actually put this shit on tv.
Ok, y'all. I promised this was worth watching. I've just found it on Youtube. Pretty much sums up the case, imo.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think censorship is a good thing now. This should never have been allowed to air. The 24-hour news cycle is the most despicable human institution in history.
On July 02 2013 11:40 Kaitlin wrote: Anybody watching HLN After Dark right now ? Hilarious.
edit:
They did a little hypothetical walkthrough on what they think happened. One Trayvon supporter created some outlandish scenario involving Zimmerman recruiting a neighbor to help stage the scene, denying any scuffle took place, and two shots fired. Unbelievable that they actually put this shit on tv.
Ok, y'all. I promised this was worth watching. I've just found it on Youtube. Pretty much sums up the case, imo.
EPT
