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This topic is not about the American Invasion of Iraq. Stop. - Page 23 |
On March 31 2012 18:13 TanTzoR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you?  Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia,  ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! 50%? The money gets lost at some point.
I'm sure $2 trillion just fell out of John Boehner's pocket. Anyways, how much does the merit of a law impact the decision of whether it is deemed constitutional or struck down? If there is no impact, I'll feel bad for debating about whether the law is worthwhile or not.
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On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations!
So everyone who gets social security,medicare, and medicaid is poor? Wtf?? People pay into those programs. Look at our military budget compared to the rest of the world, you'd have to be crazy to consider that much spending as necessary when we have a need for healthcare reform and deficit reduction.
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On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market [...]
No.
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On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations!
Military spending: total of $929 billion
Social Security: total of $713 billion
Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical)
Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations.
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On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies.
Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea.
On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations.
You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military.
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On March 31 2012 21:11 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies. Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea. Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations. You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military.
The military budget of the United States during FY 2011 was approximately $740 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $141 billion for veteran expenses, and $48 billion in expenses for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $929 billion.
Straight from wiki  , my point still stands, drastic changes are required to the budget, cut spending, cut taxes for those earning under $30,000 reduce tax exemptions for those that earn over 1 million.
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On March 31 2012 12:26 RCMDVA wrote:On the charts that show Life Expectancy at Birth... what you want to see is something that takes out automobile deaths and murders. Once you get past 24 or so, and have outgrown the window where you are likely to either get drunk and die in a car crash, or shot in a drug deal...all country's numbers tighten up as far as life expectancy. Below sort of explains what i mean : http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2007/09/natural-life-expectancy-in-united.htmlShow nested quote +If you've sorted the data in the dynamic table, you find that without accounting for the incidence of fatal injuries, the United States ties for 14th of the 16 nations listed. But once fatal injuries are taken into account, U.S. "natural" life expectancy from birth ranks first among the richest nations of the world.
I always get a bit suspicious when the actual papers are pretty much nowhere to be found and all the search results are very partisan. So a very quick google lead to:
But the OECD itself took the trouble to counter this finding in print. In a footnote to its 2008 economic survey of the U.S., the agency says that Ohsfeldt and Schneider’s estimates are based in part on GDP. If you don’t factor in GDP, the U.S. ranks 17th in the world for life expectancy when the high U.S. rate of fatal injuries is ignored, the OECD said.
Back in 2007, Ohsfeldt told the WSJ that he and Schneider were “not trying to say that these are the precisely correct life-expectancy estimates. We’re just trying to show that there are other factors that affect life-expectancy-at-birth estimates that people quote all the time.”
Neither McCaughey, Ohsfeldt nor Schneider responded to requests for comment for this post.
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/08/25/violence-traffic-accidents-and-us-life-expectancy/
Any comments on this liberal (facts and data and stuff)?
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On March 31 2012 21:27 meatbox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 21:11 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies. Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea. On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations. You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military. The military budget of the United States during FY 2011 was approximately $740 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $141 billion for veteran expenses, and $48 billion in expenses for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $929 billion. Straight from wiki , my point still stands, drastic changes are required to the budget, cut spending, cut taxes for those earning under $30,000 reduce tax exemptions for those that earn over 1 million.
I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax.
What I meant was the DoD is more than just the US Military. It's also a ton of research developments in several fields that can (sometimes) be put into civilian hands eventually, but could never work to turn a profit yet. It's not all bombs and drones and such. Of course it's still ridiculously wasteful, as is the military. Honestly, you'd think with all that discipline and hierarchy people would know how to make things happen...
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On March 31 2012 22:13 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 21:27 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 21:11 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies. Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea. On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations. You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military. The military budget of the United States during FY 2011 was approximately $740 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $141 billion for veteran expenses, and $48 billion in expenses for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $929 billion. Straight from wiki , my point still stands, drastic changes are required to the budget, cut spending, cut taxes for those earning under $30,000 reduce tax exemptions for those that earn over 1 million. I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax. What I meant was the DoD is more than just the US Military. It's also a ton of research developments in several fields that can (sometimes) be put into civilian hands eventually, but could never work to turn a profit yet. It's not all bombs and drones and such. Of course it's still ridiculously wasteful, as is the military. Honestly, you'd think with all that discipline and hierarchy people would know how to make things happen...
The world is run by idiots with no idea mate, Obama's main concern is controlling the people, he doesn't care for general well being, he wants a police state and a strong international presence. He believes in globalism, the lefties support it but for different reasons. Obamacare is a method of control.
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On March 31 2012 22:36 meatbox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 22:13 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 21:27 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 21:11 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies. Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea. On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations. You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military. The military budget of the United States during FY 2011 was approximately $740 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $141 billion for veteran expenses, and $48 billion in expenses for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $929 billion. Straight from wiki , my point still stands, drastic changes are required to the budget, cut spending, cut taxes for those earning under $30,000 reduce tax exemptions for those that earn over 1 million. I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax. What I meant was the DoD is more than just the US Military. It's also a ton of research developments in several fields that can (sometimes) be put into civilian hands eventually, but could never work to turn a profit yet. It's not all bombs and drones and such. Of course it's still ridiculously wasteful, as is the military. Honestly, you'd think with all that discipline and hierarchy people would know how to make things happen... The world is run by idiots with no idea mate, Obama's main concern is controlling the people, he doesn't care for general well being, he wants a police state and a strong international presence. He believes in globalism, the lefties support it but for different reasons. Obamacare is a method of control.
I think you forgot to provide a link to alex jones' website and call people sheep.
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On March 31 2012 22:36 meatbox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 22:13 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 21:27 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 21:11 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies. Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea. On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations. You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military. The military budget of the United States during FY 2011 was approximately $740 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $141 billion for veteran expenses, and $48 billion in expenses for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $929 billion. Straight from wiki , my point still stands, drastic changes are required to the budget, cut spending, cut taxes for those earning under $30,000 reduce tax exemptions for those that earn over 1 million. I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax. What I meant was the DoD is more than just the US Military. It's also a ton of research developments in several fields that can (sometimes) be put into civilian hands eventually, but could never work to turn a profit yet. It's not all bombs and drones and such. Of course it's still ridiculously wasteful, as is the military. Honestly, you'd think with all that discipline and hierarchy people would know how to make things happen... The world is run by idiots with no idea mate, Obama's main concern is controlling the people, he doesn't care for general well being, he wants a police state and a strong international presence. He believes in globalism, the lefties support it but for different reasons. Obamacare is a method of control.
I'm not really sure how that responds to my post, but I think I'd prefer it you kept things relevant to the reality that everyone else lives in, rather than the one you're living in.
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"I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax.
What I meant was the DoD is more than just the US Military. It's also a ton of research developments in several fields that can (sometimes) be put into civilian hands eventually, but could never work to turn a profit yet. It's not all bombs and drones and such. Of course it's still ridiculously wasteful, as is the military. Honestly, you'd think with all that discipline and hierarchy people would know how to make things happen."
First paragraph is 32-35k. Second paragraph is ahahahahahahahahahaha. It's clear you don't even live on the same coast as the pentagon, but use that sentence to anyone who works for DOD in DC. You'll get the same response from everyone.
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The government being able to run your life and force you to buy things is never a step in the right direction do you realize that you are willfully giving up the right to run your own life and make your own choices be they good or bad when you give the government this type of power? How can people support this type of thing?
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On March 31 2012 23:11 Thenerf wrote:
"I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax.
What I meant was the DoD is more than just the US Military. It's also a ton of research developments in several fields that can (sometimes) be put into civilian hands eventually, but could never work to turn a profit yet. It's not all bombs and drones and such. Of course it's still ridiculously wasteful, as is the military. Honestly, you'd think with all that discipline and hierarchy people would know how to make things happen."
First paragraph is 32-35k. Second paragraph is ahahahahahahahahahaha. It's clear you don't even live on the same coast as the pentagon, but use that sentence to anyone who works for DOD in DC. You'll get the same response from everyone.
Uhm. I work for a US government contractor. I have many friends and co-workers who have worked with several projects for DoD. I've mostly just heard about that kind of incompetence from them as anecdotal evidence.
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On March 31 2012 23:16 Vulture174 wrote:
The government being able to run your life and force you to buy things is never a step in the right direction do you realize that you are willfully giving up the right to run your own life and make your own choices be they good or bad when you give the government this type of power? How can people support this type of thing?
Because the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. You aren't having your life controlled by someone else, you're having one small area of your life controlled. Similar to the bits that are controlled to stop you killing/hurting/stealing.
People allow this to happen because it ends up being better for everyone involved. Public-pooled costs for areas like health care help stop people being one accident or one disease away from poverty (or death). It's the mark of a civilised society.
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On March 31 2012 22:13 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 21:27 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 21:11 DoubleReed wrote:On March 31 2012 14:55 xDaunt wrote:
The root problem of the high cost of medical care in the US is the fact that the industry has become so detached from the free market that there are gross distortions in prices and billing practices. You'd laugh if you actually saw what medical providers charged for something as simple as OTC/generic medicine or incredibly basic and cheap medical supplies. Seems kind of disingenuous. There are plenty of systems with significantly reduced costs in care that are even less attached to the free market. I just don't see why healthcare should be a profit-based industry. That sounds like a terrible idea. On March 31 2012 20:32 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 18:03 Mordanis wrote:On March 31 2012 17:46 meatbox wrote:On March 31 2012 10:37 Defacer wrote:
Holy shit. Japan is killing it. And I can't help but consider how different their diet is from Americans. That has to be a factor. Well yeah you can't really go wrong with seafood now can you? Asian cuisine is quite light you see, sure they eat steak but its not a 500g piece with hot chips, it would be finely sliced small portions with a tiny bowl of rice and a simply sauce plus some greens. Healthcare should be free but so much spending goes into the military, it's ridiculous, best option is to move abroad if you are American, only downhill from here it seems. I'm sure an American passport would be well received in Canada or Australia, ... Have you ever heard of the phrase "There's no such thing as a free lunch"? Also The US spends almost 50% of its budget on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and Welfare so a lot more of our funding goes to healthcare for the poor than to our troops. Thanks for your generalizations! Military spending: total of $929 billion Social Security: total of $713 billion Why should any more than 10 billion go towards the military? (rhetorical) Goes to show how poorly the USA is doing relative to other first world nations. You are talking about general defense spending? Because that's a whole lot more than the military. The military budget of the United States during FY 2011 was approximately $740 billion in expenses for the Department of Defense (DoD), $141 billion for veteran expenses, and $48 billion in expenses for the Department of Homeland Security, for a total of $929 billion. Straight from wiki , my point still stands, drastic changes are required to the budget, cut spending, cut taxes for those earning under $30,000 reduce tax exemptions for those that earn over 1 million. I was under the impression that 30k and under do not pay federal income tax.
Basically yes. It depends but around $30k you start paying income taxes and below that you pay none or pay negative taxes.
Now most of those people will still pay taxes through the payroll tax (negative taxes offset this) but that's a difficult tax to cut since it directly funds social security and medicare / medicaid.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
In 2009 all taxpayers earning less than ~$32k paid, in total, less than $20 billion in federal income taxes out of a total of ~$865 billion collected.
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Because the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. You aren't having your life controlled by someone else, you're having one small area of your life controlled. Similar to the bits that are controlled to stop you killing/hurting/stealing.
This must be why the government has been unable to articulate a limiting principle when it comes to the mandate. Usually when the slippery slope argument actually is a fallacy, those arguing that it is can point to a place where the buck stops.
People allow this to happen because it ends up being better for everyone involved. Public-pooled costs for areas like health care help stop people being one accident or one disease away from poverty (or death). It's the mark of a civilised society.
Implying that a society isn't civilized if it doesn't agree with your particular political opinion isn't going to win you many converts.
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On April 01 2012 00:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Because the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. You aren't having your life controlled by someone else, you're having one small area of your life controlled. Similar to the bits that are controlled to stop you killing/hurting/stealing. This must be why the government has been unable to articulate a limiting principle when it comes to the mandate. Usually when the slippery slope argument actually is a fallacy, those arguing that it is can point to a place where the buck stops. Show nested quote +People allow this to happen because it ends up being better for everyone involved. Public-pooled costs for areas like health care help stop people being one accident or one disease away from poverty (or death). It's the mark of a civilised society. Implying that a society isn't civilized if it doesn't agree with your particular political opinion isn't going to win you many converts.
Obamacare has been limited, its a fair bit smaller in scope than it was in its inception.
I'm not looking for converts. I do consider it barbaric (and have no problem saying it) when a first world nation with more than enough wealth to cover all its citizens, applies a law of the jungle when it comes to basic needs. The law of the jungle belongs in the jungle - where you have to fight to barely survive. Not a plentiful land.
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On March 31 2012 23:46 Nottoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 23:16 Vulture174 wrote:
The government being able to run your life and force you to buy things is never a step in the right direction do you realize that you are willfully giving up the right to run your own life and make your own choices be they good or bad when you give the government this type of power? How can people support this type of thing? Because the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. You aren't having your life controlled by someone else, you're having one small area of your life controlled. Similar to the bits that are controlled to stop you killing/hurting/stealing. People allow this to happen because it ends up being better for everyone involved. Public-pooled costs for areas like health care help stop people being one accident or one disease away from poverty (or death). It's the mark of a civilised society.
The slippery slope fallacy does not preclude an argument from being valid. Slippery slope is only defined as a fallacy if someone doesn't articulate or support the premises of how one event naturally leads to another. That doesn't mean that the arguments don't have validity. It is very simple to show how one growth in government naturally leads to another, it's just a very time consuming process to show all the reasons and ways in which this occurs. Hopefully in the context of a forum such as this one someone doesn't have to go to such lengths to describe something that clearly is valid. The course of modern history alone attests to the fact that the growth of government control is indeed a slippery slope.
If you really want to read someone justifying the mechanisms of the slippery slope, including with regard to growth of government, you can read this 100 page paper. Have fun.
http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/slippery.htm
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On April 01 2012 00:25 Nottoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 00:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:Because the slippery slope fallacy is a fallacy for a reason. You aren't having your life controlled by someone else, you're having one small area of your life controlled. Similar to the bits that are controlled to stop you killing/hurting/stealing. This must be why the government has been unable to articulate a limiting principle when it comes to the mandate. Usually when the slippery slope argument actually is a fallacy, those arguing that it is can point to a place where the buck stops. People allow this to happen because it ends up being better for everyone involved. Public-pooled costs for areas like health care help stop people being one accident or one disease away from poverty (or death). It's the mark of a civilised society. Implying that a society isn't civilized if it doesn't agree with your particular political opinion isn't going to win you many converts. Obamacare has been limited, its a fair bit smaller in scope than it was in its inception. I'm not looking for converts. I do consider it barbaric (and have no problem saying it) when a first world nation with more than enough wealth to cover all its citizens, applies a law of the jungle when it comes to basic needs. The law of the jungle belongs in the jungle - where you have to fight to barely survive. Not a plentiful land.
It's not "law of the jungle" in the US. If you are sick you go to the hospital and they take care of you. Even if you don't have insurance and cannot pay. Basic needs ARE covered.
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EPT
