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On May 21 2018 02:14 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 01:53 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On May 21 2018 01:47 superstartran wrote:
Because the crux of the issue is that this kid could have easily just set off the pressure cookers and pipe bombs and killed far more people. HAHAHAHA really? Is this where your line of though takes you? That pressure cookers and explosive devices are as deadly and easy to obtain as guns? Bullshit. If guns were as regulated as explosive devices most of those children killed in schools would be alive today. Others killed in mass shooting? Probably the same. I hope you realize that this 17 year old kid built such devices and was ready to use them. It's not hard, it's called Google
But he didn't. Instead he shot people dead. It was easier and more deadly. That's the reality.
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The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours.
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On May 21 2018 00:16 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2018 04:38 Kyadytim wrote:On May 20 2018 03:37 superstartran wrote:On May 20 2018 02:27 Danglars wrote:On May 20 2018 01:06 Womwomwom wrote:On May 19 2018 23:58 Danglars wrote:On May 19 2018 23:47 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i used to think this thread had a purpose but now its fairly obvious that this thread goes through a routine that is pretty much identical every single time. and those who dont want to take part in the neverending cycle of gun control debate no longer post anymore because mass shootings have occurred too many times at this point for us to even be surprised. how sad...
well actually there was another school shooting that i think happened the day after? santa fe so... thats new i guess. consecutive school shootings happening now. There was another school shooting that happened the day after? Yes, there was a person killed in Georgia during some graduation ceremony. It doesn't seem like a planned shooting, seemed like some people got angry and someone drew their firearm. Obviously it could have ended up much worse since it was in a parking lot during a mass public event. Ok I see it. One was killed and another was wounded in a parking lot argument. It occurred after a graduation ceremony. It definitely fits in anyone's definition of gun violence, but wouldn't be included in everybody's definition of a school shooting. Then again, details on that one haven't been released. On May 20 2018 01:13 superstartran wrote:On May 20 2018 01:06 Womwomwom wrote:On May 19 2018 23:58 Danglars wrote:On May 19 2018 23:47 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i used to think this thread had a purpose but now its fairly obvious that this thread goes through a routine that is pretty much identical every single time. and those who dont want to take part in the neverending cycle of gun control debate no longer post anymore because mass shootings have occurred too many times at this point for us to even be surprised. how sad...
well actually there was another school shooting that i think happened the day after? santa fe so... thats new i guess. consecutive school shootings happening now. There was another school shooting that happened the day after? Yes, there was a person killed in Georgia during some graduation ceremony. It doesn't seem like a planned shooting, seemed like some people got angry and someone drew their firearm. Obviously it could have ended up much worse since it was in a parking lot during a mass public event. On May 20 2018 00:56 superstartran wrote:Yet they win out in multiple elections despite all these factors. Alot of this is because the NRA has a ton of support from the silent majority who chooses not to publicly declare their status, just like how Donald Trump ended up winning in a land slide despite all the polls showing Clinton at an advantage. So yes, you need to win those people over. Trump didn't win in a landslide nor were the polls wrong as they were accurate within margin of error with regards to popular vote. Trump won states that a conventional Republican candidate probably wouldn't have a prayer of winning. He also won 307 electoral votes to 227. It was a beat down and an embarrassment to the Democratic party, especially considering how much of a shit show he was on the campaign trail (and currently). So yes, keep living in some weird reality where Trump didn't stomp Clinton, but he did. He shouldn't have had a prayer of winning. But he did. Simultaneously, the crazy electoral result looks like more of a smackdown than it really was. Take four big swing states that were too close to call for ages after polls closed, WI MI PA and FL. The margins were 0.7% 0.3% 0.7% and 1.2%. Those margins gave Trump 75 EC votes to 0 EC for Clinton, which more than covers the final difference between the two. The fact that Dems shouldn't have been struggling in more than a couple is true, but doesn't make for a true blowout. It was a blow out in the sense that the Democrats should have never lost WI MI or PA, and it was considered a massive upset. You can't take 'popular' votes or 'number of votes' as the only factors here, you have to take into consideration that the three states that he flipped have been historically Democratic for quite sometime now. Again, alot of this is in relation to the idea that there are far more Trump supporters than one would actually believe. Similarly to the NRA, just because the NRA's official membership is about 5 million, if you really think about it, the NRA probably actually represents a much larger population then that. It's just that many of them don't actually register with the NRA for fear of being tagged as a 'gun nut.' The actual number of people the NRA represents is probably something closer to 10 million+, otherwise there's no way they would have so much political clout. Their ability to mobilize such a large number of gun owners is phenomenal, it's pretty much unprecedented in modern political history. People keep harping on about NRA leadership, etc. but at it's core, the NRA is a grass roots movement of gun owners. You have to convince those grass roots people that there's a problem (which I think your generic run of the mill NRA member would agree to), and you need to get them on your side in order to come up with realistic solutions. That being said, you could also just say that all gun supporters are demons and call it a day. That's what the liberal left does. I'm pretty sure calling the other side demons is what the conservative right does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic:_How_the_Liberal_Mob_Is_Endangering_AmericaIt looks to me like you really, really want the narrative that liberals are calling all gun supporters demons to be true, because the ideas that liberals are demonizing conservatives and that liberals won't talk about reasonable gun control are necessary to support your complete refusal to engage in serious dialogue. Considering someone earlier in this thread stated that I had the ""blood of children" on my hands because I argued for gun rights, probably should speak volumes. And it is true that liberals refuse to support reasonable gun controls. At bare minimum it's politicians, at a national level it's the ridiculous notion that an assault weapons ban will do anything (along with all sorts of other ignorant bullshit). You yourself I guarantee have absolutely no clue about how firearms work, firearm safety, etc. but yet you expect experts on firearms to bow down to your emotional agenda? Rofl. Good example, you probably wouldn't know the ballistic differences between a 5.56 or a .308, and why the 5.56 is actually a better home defense round than the .308, and yet in most cases people want to ban essentially all "5.56 assault style weapons" despite the fact that a .308 round would be able to put a gaping hole through your chest depending on the range fired from. Put it to you another way : You are an absolute expert in your field, you understand the rules, safety protocols, pretty much everything there is to know about your field. Suddenly the general public and some politicians who have never even so much as dabbled in your field suddenly want to regulate it. They are in general highly ignorant about your field, have no clue about how anything works, do not know any of the laws in regards to your field, nor the general basic knowledge necessary to perform adequately in it. You think you wouldn't be pissed? Why do you think so many firearm owners in general are so stand offish? 99.9% of the time it's because the same people who are calling for gun control legislation are completely ignorant about firearms, have no clue how to even operate one to even fire properly (let alone load their own ammunition, disassembly of your firearm for cleaning, etc.), or pretty much anything about firearms in general. Then, gun owners themselves are called demons, murderers, etc. because they argue for a constitutionally guaranteed right. And people then wonder why the NRA has such massive sway over politicians. It's because the NRA represents a hell of alot more than 5 million people, it represents pretty much every gun owner out there who is being trampled out there because they simply exercise their 2nd amendment right.
Right on. Nothing happens on this issue until gun control proponents inform themselves on the guns they want to ban and the legislative history of gun control in the US. I hear way too much ignorant bloviating on why nobody should like the AR-15 for home defense, or why nobody should need a 30-round clip for civilian use.
Frankly, the rhetoric makes people think that those who say they want common sense gun reforms with popular support actually are gunning for the second amendment. People like Jockmcplop end rants in "Enjoy your second amendment." If it wasn't obvious, gun owners think non-owning citizens or activists consider their second amendment rights to be second class rights. It justifies the NRA's rhetoric, since the other side makes no attempt to keep emotional pleas and seething contempt out of the discussion. Okay, how do you like it directed right back at you?
It might take twenty years of the status quo to convince people that gun control activists aren't coming for your guns, but only want regulations to keep them from teenagers and young adults looking for fame or an action for their rage. I'm referring to this sentiment:
I want to see discussion on the warning signs and the inadequacy of law enforcement acting on preventable tragedies with current law (like Parkland). I'd like to talk about handling the media that puts his name and face all across the nation, to guarantee any imitators that they are one action away from national fame/infamy.
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On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours.
'Excessively small'
A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America.
Number two, the reason why change isn't made is because gun owners stand up for their rights and justifiably so. The other side actually doesn't give a fuck. If they really did, they'd be spending more time, effort, money, etc. in order to get something done. You want to know the truth? The liberal left says a few things, passes a few bullshit bills, then moves on. People who say they care forget about it and move on. It's not political correct to say, but the same people who say they care about school shootings are the same people who move on within a month (if not a week or two). Gun owners are the only ones who consistently show up, do their civic duty, and make their voices heard. The truth is that the liberal left always says they are trying to push for something, and their efforts die out.
Did the LGBT community and other minority groups give up when they didn't get what they wanted on the first go around? No. They pushed, they fought, and they did their civic duty. They used what was available to them, and made things happen. They didn't let their voices die down, they didn't just say 'fuck the other side.' No, they reached across the other side, made enough headway, and made a change in society.
You want to make changes? Don't be a bitch about it. Do something, continue to make something happen. Work with others, try and get it done. But don't try and bitch moan and scream that the world isn't fair because the NRA and gun owners merely exercise their constitutional right to vote. And especially don't fucking call firearm owners terrible people or try to generalize them as assholes just because they are exercising a right given to them.
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On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America.
On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved.
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On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved.
No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years.
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On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved.
Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on?
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After all this time it turns out it was the NRA that wants guns regulated, and the liberal left assholes that want to try and stop the process!
What a surprising turn of events.
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On May 21 2018 04:19 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years.
First we're going to acknowledge that you answered a demonstrably true statement of fact with "no" and followed it up with a development that doesn't justify the no.
Then we're going to play a 2018 game: who do you think wins, the united corporations of gun manufacturers pouring money into politics so that they can keep selling as many guns to as many people as possible, or one leftist boi who can write the legislation that you like?
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On May 21 2018 04:23 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on?
You live in the most important country in the western world. What you do as a country has the potential to affect my life much more than what happens in Austria, even though I live nearby. When we fuck up in Switzerland or in Austria, the world doesn't really care. When you do, the world cares.
I don't really believe that you don't understand that.
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On May 21 2018 04:24 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:19 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years. First we're going to acknowledge that you answered a demonstrably true statement of fact with "no" and followed it up with a development that doesn't justify the no. Then we're going to play a 2018 game: who do you think wins, the united corporations of gun manufacturers pouring money into politics so that they can keep selling as many guns to as many people as possible, or one leftist boi who can write the legislation that you like?
The 'United Corporations of gun manufacturing' doesn't even put 1/1000 of the money that pharmaceutical companies and technology companies do into the political system. Super PACs make the NRA's contributions look like a rounding error.
And yet the NRA has more political sway then all of these political organizations, and is considered to be the most powerful lobbying interest group in Washington D.C. to this day. The reason for that is not because of money, but because of the fact that is able to mobilize a large swath of voters into key elections. It's ultimately a grass roots movement at its core.
But do keep being ignorant and uninformed.
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On May 21 2018 04:23 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on?
If Russia gets to choose your president surely us Europeans should get a say on your domestic policy.
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On May 21 2018 04:29 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:24 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:19 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years. First we're going to acknowledge that you answered a demonstrably true statement of fact with "no" and followed it up with a development that doesn't justify the no. Then we're going to play a 2018 game: who do you think wins, the united corporations of gun manufacturers pouring money into politics so that they can keep selling as many guns to as many people as possible, or one leftist boi who can write the legislation that you like? The 'United Corporations of gun manufacturing' doesn't even put 1/1000 of the money that pharmaceutical companies and technology companies do into the political system. Super PACs make the NRA's contributions look like a rounding error. And yet the NRA has more political sway then all of these political organizations, and is considered to be the most powerful lobbying interest group in Washington D.C. to this day. The reason for that is not because of money, but because of the fact that is able to mobilize a large swath of voters into key elections. It's ultimately a grass roots movement at its core. But do keep being ignorant and uninformed.
I knew all of that. It doesn't contradict what I've said.
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On May 21 2018 04:24 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:19 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years. First we're going to acknowledge that you answered a demonstrably true statement of fact with "no" and followed it up with a development that doesn't justify the no. Then we're going to play a 2018 game: who do you think wins, the united corporations of gun manufacturers pouring money into politics so that they can keep selling as many guns to as many people as possible, or one leftist boi who can write the legislation that you like?
Lol this fantasy. You talk about facts, but where are your numbers? I'll give you some. The NRA donated 834,000$ in the 2016 election cycle to politicians. (http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-political-contributions-congressional-candidates-house-senate-2018-2) Holy shit, if all it takes is donating less than a million dollars to get what you want, let's start a GoFundMe. The fact is, that it's not corporations and lobbyists, it's that many Americans have vastly different values and attitudes towards this topic than you want to admit. It's easy to blame the nebulous "corporation and lobbying!" as the "left" is wont to do, but it's just a fantasy. You can't admit to the reality that you could be wrong, or that a majority of the population are evil in your eyes. That would make you the outlier and we really can't be having that can we. After-all, how do you square democracy uber alles and your calls to ignore what the majority wants. You refuse to acknowledge that reality so the boogeyman corporation at the heart of every action against your set of values is easy to trout out.
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On May 21 2018 04:31 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:29 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 04:24 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:19 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years. First we're going to acknowledge that you answered a demonstrably true statement of fact with "no" and followed it up with a development that doesn't justify the no. Then we're going to play a 2018 game: who do you think wins, the united corporations of gun manufacturers pouring money into politics so that they can keep selling as many guns to as many people as possible, or one leftist boi who can write the legislation that you like? The 'United Corporations of gun manufacturing' doesn't even put 1/1000 of the money that pharmaceutical companies and technology companies do into the political system. Super PACs make the NRA's contributions look like a rounding error. And yet the NRA has more political sway then all of these political organizations, and is considered to be the most powerful lobbying interest group in Washington D.C. to this day. The reason for that is not because of money, but because of the fact that is able to mobilize a large swath of voters into key elections. It's ultimately a grass roots movement at its core. But do keep being ignorant and uninformed. I knew all of that. It doesn't contradict what I've said.
It does. Just because a gun owner generally supports something doesn't mean they will vote for the legislation that is put forth. Most of the legislation that has been put forth at least on a federal level has been absolutely asinine and dumb to anyone who has basic firearm operating knowledge.
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On May 21 2018 04:27 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:23 Wegandi wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on? You live in the most important country in the western world. What you do as a country has the potential to affect my life much more than what happens in Austria, even though I live nearby. When we fuck up in Switzerland or in Austria, the world doesn't really care. When you do, the world cares. I don't really believe that you don't understand that.
Care to give me examples from your country how our domestic policies were major contributing factors to your domestic legislative governance? If you do, they better not be vague as fuck with assumptions and a priorisms. I would take quotes from legislators attesting to them doing XYZ because America has or does XYZ and that's why they did it. Something along those lines will suffice.
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On May 21 2018 04:32 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:24 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:19 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. No; the reason why nothing gets done is because most of the legislation that is trying to be passed is bullshit. Gun owners are not dumb. They understand that stupid things like assault weapon bans will not work. Just because they publicly support certain things does not mean they are going to accept idiotic legislation that will never work in a million years. First we're going to acknowledge that you answered a demonstrably true statement of fact with "no" and followed it up with a development that doesn't justify the no. Then we're going to play a 2018 game: who do you think wins, the united corporations of gun manufacturers pouring money into politics so that they can keep selling as many guns to as many people as possible, or one leftist boi who can write the legislation that you like? Lol this fantasy. You talk about facts, but where are your numbers? I'll give you some. The NRA donated 834,000$ in the 2016 election cycle to politicians. (http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-political-contributions-congressional-candidates-house-senate-2018-2) Holy shit, if all it takes is donating less than a million dollars to get what you want, let's start a GoFundMe. The fact is, that it's not corporations and lobbyists, it's that many Americans have vastly different values and attitudes towards this topic than you want to admit. It's easy to blame the nebulous "corporation and lobbying!" as the "left" is wont to do, but it's just a fantasy. You can't admit to the reality that you could be wrong, or that a majority of the population are evil in your eyes. That would make you the outlier and we really can't be having that can we. After-all, how do you square democracy uber alles and your calls to ignore what the majority wants. You refuse to acknowledge that reality so the boogeyman corporation at the heart of every action against your set of values is easy to trout out.
90% of Americans support universal background checks for gun purchases. For example here: http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/oct/03/chris-abele/do-90-americans-support-background-checks-all-gun-/
Notice in that Politifact: In 2015, we rated as True a claim that polling showed nearly 74 percent of National Rifle Association members support requiring background checks for all gun sales.
I have a hard time reconciling such large majorities with the notion that I'm misreading the american people and that they do, in fact, love complete inaction that favors gun manufacturers when it comes to gun control. But I'm sure you have the reality check that I require.
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On May 21 2018 04:38 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:23 Wegandi wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on? You live in the most important country in the western world. What you do as a country has the potential to affect my life much more than what happens in Austria, even though I live nearby. When we fuck up in Switzerland or in Austria, the world doesn't really care. When you do, the world cares. I don't really believe that you don't understand that. Care to give me examples from your country how our domestic policies were major contributing factors to your domestic legislative governance? If you do, they better not be vague as fuck with assumptions and a priorisms. I would take quotes from legislators attesting to them doing XYZ because America has or does XYZ and that's why they did it. Something along those lines will suffice.
I don't have that, no. I don't need it to make the point I made though, so it doesn't really bother me that I don't.
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On May 21 2018 04:42 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:38 Wegandi wrote:On May 21 2018 04:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:23 Wegandi wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on? You live in the most important country in the western world. What you do as a country has the potential to affect my life much more than what happens in Austria, even though I live nearby. When we fuck up in Switzerland or in Austria, the world doesn't really care. When you do, the world cares. I don't really believe that you don't understand that. Care to give me examples from your country how our domestic policies were major contributing factors to your domestic legislative governance? If you do, they better not be vague as fuck with assumptions and a priorisms. I would take quotes from legislators attesting to them doing XYZ because America has or does XYZ and that's why they did it. Something along those lines will suffice. I don't have that, no. I don't need it to make the point I made though, so it doesn't really bother me that I don't.
I don't have any facts to support my opinions, but it doesn't matter, I'm right anyways. Color me unsurprised. In less than a few posts, you admonished another user for doing the same thing you're doing. I have better things to do with my time. Feel free to continue to waste your time giving your opinions of how Americans should govern themselves from Switzerland. I'm sure you'll make great inroads.
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On May 21 2018 04:46 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2018 04:42 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:38 Wegandi wrote:On May 21 2018 04:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:23 Wegandi wrote:On May 21 2018 04:16 Nebuchad wrote:On May 21 2018 04:10 superstartran wrote:On May 21 2018 03:39 Nebuchad wrote:
The most annoying thing after every shooting is people wasting their time trying to convince people like superstartran.
The reason why you don't have better gun control in the US isn't because you can't convince him. He represents an excessively small amount of people. The reason why you don't have better gun control is because your democracy has been hijacked. All this energy that you spend on him should be spent on changing the system that causes his voice to have so much more power than yours. 'Excessively small' A quarter of Americans own a firearm of some sort. That's not excessively small, that's bigger than pretty much any minority (as in minority interest group) group in America. On several issues we have most of that quarter on our side on top of the other three quarters. And those issues still don't get resolved. Dude, you live in Switzerland. What is this "our" and "we" speak? I'm not going to wade into this cesspool, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind on this topic, but I fail to see how domestic US issues that have a near-zero effect on you, riles you up so much. I don't wade into British or South African, or any range of other countries threads and shit it up with my opinions which have zero relevance to how they choose to govern themselves. Do we really constantly need smug Europeans shitting up domestic US issues with their bloviating? You guys have no problems over there to focus your attention on? You live in the most important country in the western world. What you do as a country has the potential to affect my life much more than what happens in Austria, even though I live nearby. When we fuck up in Switzerland or in Austria, the world doesn't really care. When you do, the world cares. I don't really believe that you don't understand that. Care to give me examples from your country how our domestic policies were major contributing factors to your domestic legislative governance? If you do, they better not be vague as fuck with assumptions and a priorisms. I would take quotes from legislators attesting to them doing XYZ because America has or does XYZ and that's why they did it. Something along those lines will suffice. I don't have that, no. I don't need it to make the point I made though, so it doesn't really bother me that I don't. I don't have any facts to support my opinions, but it doesn't matter, I'm right anyways.
So you disagree with my opinion that the US is the most important country in the western world?
I can sympathize with your position that you don't like people from other countries weighing in with uninformed opinions, that is fine. You're attacking my defense of why I care about what happens in your country here, and you're going to run into problems there because I don't do it for sophisticated reasons, only for obvious ones.
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EPT
