EPTTrying to force gun control in the US probably won't work on short term either way because there are simply too many guns, making it easy to acquire them illegaly (fyi: this is very hard in the Netherlands, your average robber can't get one.).
If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
Trying to force gun control in the US probably won't work on short term either way because there are simply too many guns, making it easy to acquire them illegaly (fyi: this is very hard in the Netherlands, your average robber can't get one.). | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
On December 25 2012 06:28 farvacola wrote: From the perspective of criminal offenses, I think you're on point, BluePanther. But, there are other factors that are somewhat troubling, this SPLC study immediately comes to mind. Number of U.S. Hate Groups Is Rising, Report Says Again, the link between these groups and gun culture at large is not a definite one, but I think it certainly deserves some attention. Radical groups always increase in numbers during times of bad economies. What does this have to do with gun ownership? | ||
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AmericanNightmare
United States98 Posts
I notice a lot of people say it's very hard to get a gun illegally in your country. But realistically how hard would it be for someone, let's say.. in Germany, to get a gun from a friend in Switzerland and then conceal it back to Germany? Would I be incorrect to assume that it shouldn't be that hard? | ||
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KosQ
Germany223 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:31 AmericanNightmare wrote: Question for Europeans... I notice a lot of people say it's very hard to get a gun illegally in your country. But realistically how hard would it be for someone, let's say.. in Germany, to get a gun from a friend in Switzerland and then conceal it back to Germany? Would I be incorrect to assume that it shouldn't be that hard? I don't know anyone that owns a gun, not in Germany or in Switzerland for my part... The point is rather that if you turn the question around, you would have to ask "is it easier to get a weapon legally or illegally in the USA". | ||
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:31 AmericanNightmare wrote: Question for Europeans... I notice a lot of people say it's very hard to get a gun illegally in your country. But realistically how hard would it be for someone, let's say.. in Germany, to get a gun from a friend in Switzerland and then conceal it back to Germany? Would I be incorrect to assume that it shouldn't be that hard? In theory it would be very easy, it doesn't really happen though. You have to understand that european culture is very different. Most dutch people feel that having guns makes things less safe rather than safer. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
Not like it would be easily possible there to get a gun... Or are your referring to their military assault rifle, which in fact they can take home ins some cases, but without ammunition (and try to get military grade ammunition for it, lol) and personally registered to them (and it will be And yes, there are illegal possibilities to acquire guns. But they are risky(high risk of getting caught) for they guy trying, and what you can get that way are normal pistols in best case. Getting ammo for it is another difficult thing... So overall... No, average joe wont get a weapon here. Especially not quick. (if he plans his killing spree for >1 year, he might get one before, but he cant go spontaneously on a rampage with a gun) And well.. A suicide run with a knife/pistol is likely to be less devastating then someone running around with an assault rifle... | ||
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RetroAspect
Belgium219 Posts
But given the fact that there are almost 300 million firearms over there, getting people to hand them all in will take a while. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
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foxmeep
Australia2333 Posts
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micronesia
United States24673 Posts
On December 25 2012 09:37 RetroAspect wrote: Well, im glad to see that public opinon over yonder is finally changing in a good way. I just hope the administration makes quick work of it, no step-by-step bullshit that can be reversed if god forbid the next one is a republican looney's again. But given the fact that there are almost 300 million firearms over there, getting people to hand them all in will take a while. Your realize millions of people would refuse to hand them in, right? That's why a slower approach actually makes more sense, if you believe the number of guns in circulation should be decreased. | ||
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
On December 25 2012 10:18 micronesia wrote: Your realize millions of people would refuse to hand them in, right? That's why a slower approach actually makes more sense, if you believe the number of guns in circulation should be decreased. If they try taking my guns they will quickly find out that I have "lost" all of the guns I had and can't seem to find them. I'll be damned if anyone thinks they can repeal the second amendment and confiscate guns. They'd need an incredible amount of federal police strength they do not have and they'd better be prepared for regular gun fights. | ||
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guN-viCe
United States687 Posts
Also, you can get a gun in ANY country with enough money or connections(or thievery) | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On December 25 2012 10:31 Romantic wrote: If they try taking my guns they will quickly find out that I have "lost" all of the guns I had and can't seem to find them. I'll be damned if anyone thinks they can repeal the second amendment and confiscate guns. They'd need an incredible amount of federal police strength they do not have and they'd better be prepared for regular gun fights. Oops, damn those gun shows I sold mine at. Too bad I'm not an FFL, or there'd be a paper trail, but I just can't remember that guy's name... | ||
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Holy_AT
Austria978 Posts
And for drugs and other stuff, I would just round them up these criminals drive them in the middle of their districts and streets and have them executed publicly. If people have to die by guns, let it at least be the right ones (although there would be some errors, there would be far less errors then the errors made by stupid peoples with guns) On the other hand I would increase spending on education and reeducation and start programs to get people into jobs by training them the required skills. And "people wont hand over their guns, even if it is the law" is a lame excuse. If people do not adapt they will have to suffer the consequences and get arrested. If I would want to obtain a gun in austria, I wouldn't even know where to ask for one ...If I wanted to obtain a gun in the US I could probably order them online and get them express delivered. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
On December 25 2012 08:31 AmericanNightmare wrote: Question for Europeans... I notice a lot of people say it's very hard to get a gun illegally in your country. But realistically how hard would it be for someone, let's say.. in Germany, to get a gun from a friend in Switzerland and then conceal it back to Germany? Would I be incorrect to assume that it shouldn't be that hard? People can not get a gun instantly or within a few hours. Everyone in the netherlands who has no criminal record and who has a declaration of "good behaviour" and no mental problems can get a license to own a gun. There is even a case where criminals deducted their guns as expenses when the police calculated their crime profits to confiscate. You have to join a shooting club and then 1 year later or so you can get a license for 1 gun. People can also drive to belgium, where manny types of guns are sold in gun stores,you will have to show your id, and the gunshop owner will notify the dutch authoritys that you have bought a gun. The authoritys here then go check if you have a license and if you dont have one you can expect a visit, this might take some time though. So yes, it is possible to get a gun in europe but they are not sold at wallmart like in the usa. You have to take alot of preperations. Whats more important though is that having a gun in europe is frowned upon, wich also is a barrier for people to get one, legally or illegally. It realy is a big step people wont take lightly. | ||
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iplayBANJO
United States129 Posts
On December 25 2012 10:31 Romantic wrote: If they try taking my guns they will quickly find out that I have "lost" all of the guns I had and can't seem to find them. I'll be damned if anyone thinks they can repeal the second amendment and confiscate guns. They'd need an incredible amount of federal police strength they do not have and they'd better be prepared for regular gun fights. Any government that would be willing to forcibly take away the weapons from the population with "an incredible amount of federal police strength" is a government I would use mine against. I am aware that this attitude is comparable to that of the secessionists that formed the Confederacy out of fear that the federal government was going to forcibly take away their slaves, and I would like to point out the difference here is that I maintain my support in the democratic process in the United States up to the point of them actually using force. I am not willing to join an armed revolt over simply statements and policies pushed into the political arenas which have not and most likely will not amount to any meaningful policies. On December 25 2012 10:49 Holy_AT wrote: If I was president of the united states I would make a country where you don't need guns, I would speed up the justice system and I would implement a policy where even lesser crimes would be punished by death, so there will be no over crowded prisons anymore and there wont be any relapses. And death penalty for any financial fraud or fowl play and death penalty for any government official or employee being bribed or corrupt. And for drugs and other stuff, I would just round them up these criminals drive them in the middle of their districts and streets and have them executed publicly. If people have to die by guns, let it at least be the right ones (although there would be some errors, there would be far less errors then the errors made by stupid peoples with guns) On the other hand I would increase spending on education and reeducation and start programs to get people into jobs by training them the required skills. And "people wont hand over their guns, even if it is the law" is a lame excuse. If people do not adapt they will have to suffer the consequences and get arrested. If I would want to obtain a gun in austria, I wouldn't even know where to ask for one ...If I wanted to obtain a gun in the US I could probably order them online and get them express delivered. Ordering weapons online is actually more complicated than you might think because of the gun safety registration requirements that exist for any modern firearms purchase and on top of that online sales tend to be interstate and selling or transporting weapons between states commercially is an administrative nightmare for most individuals. Also, you should really look into historical outcomes of governments and governing officials whose actions parallel those you mentioned. On December 25 2012 10:57 Rassy wrote: So yes, it is possible to get a gun in europe but they are not sold at wallmart like in the usa. You have to take alot of preperations. Whats more important though is that having a gun in europe is frowned upon, wich also is a barrier for people to get one, legally or illegally. It realy is a big step people wont take lightly. I actually think there are states where Walmart is not allowed to sell the actual firearms themselves, only ammunition. I might be confusing myself with thoughts of the past occasions when Walmart has voluntarily stopped gun sales as a temporary strategy for good publicity in the wake of gun related mass killings. | ||
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BlooDAnGeL
Macedonia136 Posts
On December 25 2012 10:31 Romantic wrote: If they try taking my guns they will quickly find out that I have "lost" all of the guns I had and can't seem to find them. I'll be damned if anyone thinks they can repeal the second amendment and confiscate guns. They'd need an incredible amount of federal police strength they do not have and they'd better be prepared for regular gun fights. You realize that you will be committing a felony, not to mention that all your guns will be pretty useless since you will be forced to keep them hidden at all times, not tell anyone that you have a gun, and even in the case of self defense where you shoot someone trespassing you'll go to jail for illegal possession of weapons. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13906 Posts
On December 25 2012 11:09 BlooDAnGeL wrote: You realize that you will be committing a felony, not to mention that all your guns will be pretty useless since you will be forced to keep them hidden at all times, not tell anyone that you have a gun, and even in the case of self defense where you shoot someone trespassing you'll go to jail for illegal possession of weapons. I fought them took their gun away and shot them with it.. Then the other guy that I didn't get a good look at took the gun back from me and ran. Just ask my family and my friends next door. Problem solved, I think you will be seeing me talk about my pot farm downstairs but the government hasn't found that yet. Ps fbi I don't have a pot farm in my basement. | ||
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Kihshra
178 Posts
First of all, to people (mostly european ones) who are saying "there should be no guns at all in US", well that's utopia, for now and for long. You can't make such a radical change in US for many reasons. The two main reasons why you can't do that are the fact that you can't remove such an important amount of weapons just like that, and the fact that guns are part of american culture and history, which is why american people are so attached to their beloved 2nd amendment and will never give their guns back (just read a few answers from american people on this thread and you'll see). So, if you wan't such a huge change to happen, you have to do it really slowly and beware not to hurt a vast part of the people. I've also read a lot of pro-guns arguments, and some seem very dumb to me : 1) If somebody really wants to acquire a gun in order to commit a crime, he will get it (in a state with strict gun regulation). So people should be allowed to get weapons on their own in order to be able to stop this person to commit the crime he intended to. -> The first part is true to some extent. Bank robbers and people like that will always find a way to get the guns they need. But it would be very hard to "normal" people going crazy (you know, the kind of person responsible for the shootings in highschools and so on) to acquire a gun. Moreover, if having a gun really helped in situations like that (I mean ordinary citizens owning guns), it would be common knowledge, and there would be plenty of articles explaining how an ordinary citizen stopped a robbery/a shooting/... because he had a gun and used it (people love that kind of stories, so if you hardly hear about it, it doesnt exist). Don't be blind, those events are really rare... Owning a gun in that kind of situation never really helps, and can get you killed pretty fast. 2) If you own a gun and get killed, you would have be killed also if you had no gun. -> Of course that statement can be true depending on the situation, but it's a wrong one most of the time. Except serial killers and people going crazy, people don't want to shoot other people if they can avoid it. But owning a gun makes you dangerous to people who would like to attack you (to rob you for example). Now think about it : do you really think that kind of people would take the chance to leave you alive with an appropriate way to kill/hurt them ? No fucking way. There is a reason why people owning guns are more likely to get shot. | ||
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TheSwedishFan
Sweden608 Posts
On December 25 2012 10:49 Holy_AT wrote: If I was president of the united states I would make a country where you don't need guns, I would speed up the justice system and I would implement a policy where even lesser crimes would be punished by death, so there will be no over crowded prisons anymore and there wont be any relapses. And death penalty for any financial fraud or fowl play and death penalty for any government official or employee being bribed or corrupt. And for drugs and other stuff, I would just round them up these criminals drive them in the middle of their districts and streets and have them executed publicly. If people have to die by guns, let it at least be the right ones (although there would be some errors, there would be far less errors then the errors made by stupid peoples with guns) On the other hand I would increase spending on education and reeducation and start programs to get people into jobs by training them the required skills. And "people wont hand over their guns, even if it is the law" is a lame excuse. If people do not adapt they will have to suffer the consequences and get arrested. If I would want to obtain a gun in austria, I wouldn't even know where to ask for one ...If I wanted to obtain a gun in the US I could probably order them online and get them express delivered. You're crazy. I know Hitler originated from austria. Are you two by some way related? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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