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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent.
It's true that those can do a lot of damage, but none of them allow one to commit mass-murder as easily as one can with a gun. I don't think guns should be banned, but I hope we can find some way to make it harder for someone to point-and-kill.
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On December 15 2012 09:56 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:55 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. Then what would you propose--a ban? How about better regulation to start?
Better regulation is always on the table. What people seem to do after an event like this is take up CNN and twitter with misplaced blame and crowd mentality on banning firearms.
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On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. Of course you can't, but you can limit it. I'd rather face someone that grabbed a knife in a fit of rage than someone that grabbed a gun? Chemicals have many uses the comparison doesn't hold. I'm also pretty sure you are not allowed to roam around town holding an axe or a sword. And there is no denying a gun is more dangerous than a sword, you'd have to be pretty thick to really think that.
You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun.
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On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. Of course you can't, but you can limit it. I'd rather face someone that grabbed a knife in a fit of rage than someone that grabbed a gun? Chemicals have many uses the comparison doesn't hold. I'm also pretty sure you are not allowed to roam around town holding an axe or a sword. And there is no denying a gun is more dangerous than a sword, you'd have to be pretty thick to really think that. You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun.
and thats a moot point too since i dont think anyone here is claiming to eliminate mass murder, rather reduce it. One way of doing that is to make the process a bit more inefficient?
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On December 15 2012 09:38 Nagano wrote:
First of all, .223 and .308s are used for hunting all the time. It allows for more ethical killing. The same way you want the heaviest draw weight on your bow.
Also, I don't understand why people think a cycling mechanism for the bolt would make it an "assault" rifle. That's exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the ambiguity of trying to define an AR.
I know they are, what I am saying is that they are the only really two calibers that are used in assault rifles that arn't custom(bar the AK47 and some other obscure ones that I don't think are relevant). The caliber alone is not enough to define an assault rifle, but combined with a fully automatic mode of fire and 20 rounds in a magazine, you will be hard pressed to find anything that isn't.
I do agree that assault rifle is an ambigous term, but we both know what it is. It is a smaller and lighter rifle designed to put a lot of bullets through the air as fast as possible without being bulky like a machine gun. Because regular infantry fighting range is generally shorter than most hunting and you value quality over quantity, you go for shorter barrels and either iron sights or some sort of aimpoint.
So essentially any rifle that can shoot a lot is an assault rifle, automatic or semi-automatic. machine guns are not really different in that regard, just not as portable. The german term "Sturmgevehr" implies taking ground, as opposed to just sitting in a trench firing. I would say the main difference is that you more mobile with an assault rifle than with a machine gun. And yes, the modern machine guns sortof blurs the edges there as well.
Still, what kind of rifle has 20 or more rounds in a magazine that isnt a machine gun or an assault rifle? If sub machineguns fall into this genre, I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, since they are not used to sport or hunting as far as I know.
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Instead of focusing on the issues of guns, why not focus on better psychiatric care and awareness of mental disorders?
Gun control probably won't stop the psychopaths from killing, but preventing them from becoming like that in the first place could very well stop it from happening, right?
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On December 15 2012 09:59 B1nary wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. It's true that those can do a lot of damage, but none of them allow one to commit mass-murder as easily as one can with a gun. I don't think guns should be banned, but I hope we can find some way to make it harder for someone to point-and-kill.
I feel guilty trying to explain how to mass-murder without guns.
With a knife, it's a lot harder to mass-murder people than with a gun. Yet it's possible and it has occurred. People think gun control will stop mass-murders; it won't.
Also, what about bombs? Home-made bombs or dynamite are capable of killing more people than guns. How hard is it to make a bomb or to buy a stick of dynamite?
If someone's goal is to kill multiple people in a short period of time, it will happen, guns or not. When there's a will, there's a way.
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On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:
You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun.
It's not a moot point. The police can storm a building if they know the guy is armed with a swiss army knife. Try doing that against an automatic weapon. Also, you can run away from that. Escaping someone who enters the room and sprays bullets everywhere.. well, good luck.
How hard is it to make a bomb or to buy a stick of dynamite?
Are you serious? In ANY halfway normal country you can't just buy dynamite. Building bombs, well chances are that you get caught or the bomb never explodes. Average joe is not trained in it.
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On December 15 2012 10:25 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:59 B1nary wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. It's true that those can do a lot of damage, but none of them allow one to commit mass-murder as easily as one can with a gun. I don't think guns should be banned, but I hope we can find some way to make it harder for someone to point-and-kill. If someone's goal is to kill multiple people in a short period of time, it will happen, guns or not. When there's a will, there's a way.
might as well as not lock up your house either.... When there's a will.... haven't you seen mission impossible? so much for those useless maximum security.
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Yes: people should be allowed to own and carry guns.
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On December 15 2012 10:19 NIJ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. Of course you can't, but you can limit it. I'd rather face someone that grabbed a knife in a fit of rage than someone that grabbed a gun? Chemicals have many uses the comparison doesn't hold. I'm also pretty sure you are not allowed to roam around town holding an axe or a sword. And there is no denying a gun is more dangerous than a sword, you'd have to be pretty thick to really think that. You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun. and thats a moot point too since i dont think anyone here is claiming to eliminate mass murder, rather reduce it. One way of doing that is to make the process a bit more inefficient?
Your first sentence is a straw-man, my posts speak for themselves and I never made a statement in regards to eliminating/reducing. I simply said that banning guns won't stop mass murderers(they will purchase illegal guns or kill via other methods).
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On December 15 2012 10:40 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:19 NIJ wrote:On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:
[quote]
LOL.
Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:
[quote]
LOL.
Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. Of course you can't, but you can limit it. I'd rather face someone that grabbed a knife in a fit of rage than someone that grabbed a gun? Chemicals have many uses the comparison doesn't hold. I'm also pretty sure you are not allowed to roam around town holding an axe or a sword. And there is no denying a gun is more dangerous than a sword, you'd have to be pretty thick to really think that. You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun. and thats a moot point too since i dont think anyone here is claiming to eliminate mass murder, rather reduce it. One way of doing that is to make the process a bit more inefficient? Your first sentence is a straw-man, my posts speak for themselves and I never made a statement in regards to eliminating/reducing. I simply said that banning guns won't stop mass murderers(they will purchase illegal guns or kill via other methods).
A mass murderer with a mini nuke can kill way more people than a mass murderer with a tank. Likewise a mass murderer with an m249 could probably take out way more people than one with a remington 700. And a mass murderer with a couple glocks could probably kill way more people than one armed with a kitchen knife.
Just sayin'. It's a lot easier to run from a guy with a range of 3 ft than a guy with a range of 100 ft.
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On December 15 2012 10:27 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:
You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun.
It's not a moot point. The police can storm a building if they know the guy is armed with a swiss army knife. Try doing that against an automatic weapon. Also, you can run away from that. Escaping someone who enters the room and sprays bullets everywhere.. well, good luck.
Actually it is sort of a moot point. You aren't factoring in how long it takes for a response to actually happen after a call is made. You're also assuming the call is made at all. Britain has had gun bans in effect for years. Instead of mass shootings, they now have mass stabbings and a huge increase at that. You'd be surprised how fast someone with a knife and having some idea how to properly wield it can cut through crowds.
Its painfully obvious people as disturbed as the Connecticut shooter aren't being noticed as a dangerous element until its far too late. A surprise psycho attack in a crowded area is something a lot of people can't relate to because they've never say spent time in a third world country where massive violence happens. They're not actively looking for it and probably wouldn't recognize it even if they saw it. It takes time for people to even realize what's going on when something like this happens. They just panic and start running and screaming in all directions completely unaware of the threat or its whereabouts once it finally does start to settle in. All this chaos makes the pickings all the easier for a killer.
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Ban all auto and semi-auto guns imho. They're not needed for hunting, and the "you need them to defend yourself from the government" argument is so bad. What're you gonna do, shoot the bomb headed for your house with a gun? You're outmatched.
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Why do people need tools to kill other people?
lets remove the word gun, and replace it with 5 foot long medieval broadsword. Why in this day in age do people feel like they need it. Honestly, if i lived in a country where i felt id be safer owning a gun, id move.
the gun love is ridiculous and a sad state of human affairs. People just need to get some humanity.
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On December 15 2012 10:40 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:19 NIJ wrote:On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:
[quote]
LOL.
Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:
[quote]
LOL.
Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent. Of course you can't, but you can limit it. I'd rather face someone that grabbed a knife in a fit of rage than someone that grabbed a gun? Chemicals have many uses the comparison doesn't hold. I'm also pretty sure you are not allowed to roam around town holding an axe or a sword. And there is no denying a gun is more dangerous than a sword, you'd have to be pretty thick to really think that. You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun. and thats a moot point too since i dont think anyone here is claiming to eliminate mass murder, rather reduce it. One way of doing that is to make the process a bit more inefficient? Your first sentence is a straw-man, my posts speak for themselves and I never made a statement in regards to eliminating/reducing. I simply said that banning guns won't stop mass murderers(they will purchase illegal guns or kill via other methods).
totally stopping an occurence from happening is eliminating....
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On December 15 2012 10:27 zdfgucker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:
You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun.
It's not a moot point. The police can storm a building if they know the guy is armed with a swiss army knife. Try doing that against an automatic weapon. Also, you can run away from that. Escaping someone who enters the room and sprays bullets everywhere.. well, good luck. Are you serious? In ANY halfway normal country you can't just buy dynamite. Building bombs, well chances are that you get caught or the bomb never explodes. Average joe is not trained in it.
I disagree with so much of this post:
- We're not talking swiss army knives-- this is hyperbole.
- Law enforcement is trained to deal with crazies with automatic weapons. It's not ideal, but they manage just fine. 30v1, who wins?
- Ever heard of the unabomber? The guy who sent bombs through the mail. You realize there are recipes to make bombs online, right? I went to a fireworks stand and a guy had 1/2 a stick of dynamite(or so he said), and set it off. Dynamite is used for industrial purposes in pretty much every country.
-James Holmes(Joker wannabe killer) rigged his apartment with explosives.
- Average joe =/= crazy mass murderer
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On December 15 2012 09:06 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 08:46 Defacer wrote:On December 15 2012 08:31 jinorazi wrote:On December 15 2012 08:30 Defacer wrote:
Is this the thread where gun enthusiasts try to defend the America's entirely lax, inconsistent and poorly enforced gun laws by comparing guns (poorly) to cars, bats, and knives?
In some cities it's illegal to have a sell or own a concealable folding knife (switch blade), but you can get a concealed carry permit. Hilarious! no, i think the sane people are advocating stricter gun laws but not being ignorant to implications of completely banning guns in USA. That's good. I wish there was some effort in the US to even try to find a middle ground, but it seems like such a hot button issue that politicians are afraid to touch. It's in the best interest of gun owners and enthusiasts to demand a better system that rewards responsible ownership. I would love a world where owning an semi-automatic assault rifle was like earning a black belt in karate or getting your welding ticket. Right now any yahoo can get a gun with little to no qualifications, training or credibility. That's not just a disservice to society as a whole, but to responsible gun owners that constantly have to defend their rights because of the idiocy of others. I tend to think most people are for stricter accounting of guns. The problem is that opposition to guns invariably tries to limit ownership in some way (even if just by raising costs of ownership), which roundly gets defeated. I mean, you already have to register all guns.
My dream scenario would be putting different guns in different classes, starting from hunting rifles and graduating to handguns and then to semi-assault weapons, and forcing a gun owner to go through training and graduated licensing for different classes of guns.
I think different classes of guns, like different classes of vehicles, justifies having different limitations on ownership and operation. So a form of graduated licensing.
Hell, training and administration with weapons can be handled by gun clubs ... Experienced gun owners know better than anyone who should be handling a gun or not. I keep thinking back to how James Holmes was denied membership to gun club, simply because the manager of the club took the time to listen to his voicemail and knew immediately he was too sketchy to playing with guns.
So to me, it's less about limiting gun ownership, and more about limiting incompetence and laziness. I think there should a clear and sensible pathway for civilians to earn the ability to own and carry guns.
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On December 15 2012 10:50 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:27 zdfgucker wrote:On December 15 2012 10:16 guN-viCe wrote:
You're missing the point. A gun is very efficient at killing people, no one disagrees with you. It's a moot point though, because if a psycho wants to kill a lot of people, he will do so even without a gun.
It's not a moot point. The police can storm a building if they know the guy is armed with a swiss army knife. Try doing that against an automatic weapon. Also, you can run away from that. Escaping someone who enters the room and sprays bullets everywhere.. well, good luck. How hard is it to make a bomb or to buy a stick of dynamite? Are you serious? In ANY halfway normal country you can't just buy dynamite. Building bombs, well chances are that you get caught or the bomb never explodes. Average joe is not trained in it. I disagree with so much of this post: - We're not talking swiss army knives-- this is hyperbole. - Law enforcement is trained to deal with crazies with automatic weapons. It's not ideal, but they manage just fine. 30v1, who wins? - Ever heard of the unabomber? The guy who sent bombs through the mail. You realize there are recipes to make bombs online, right? I went to a fireworks stand and a guy had 1/2 a stick of dynamite(or so he said), and set it off. Dynamite is used for industrial purposes in pretty much every country. -James Holmes(Joker wannabe killer) rigged his apartment with explosives. - Average joe =/= crazy mass murderer
And how many bombers compared to mass shooters?
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In a country of 350 million, a story like this, while tragic, is not enough to cause knee jerk reactions and shouldn't make people want to control guns. Why do you need a new law every time something bad happens. According to the National Weather Service 27 people died in the US from being struck by lightning, should we create laws making it illegal to go outside during a storm? The right to own weapons is a Constitutional right in the US. You can either have safety or freedom, you can't have both as one tends to take away from the other. I for one choose freedom.
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EPT
