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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but for giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ?
i'm for banning guns in areas that dont already have saturation of guns, like south korea.
different story in USA, and trying to push that mindset in USA is whats causing this debate, such gun ban does not work.
so it should be revamped regulations, not gun ban.
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On December 15 2012 09:39 jinorazi wrote:pistol grip shotgun is illegal in california... guns should be able to be modified per person's preference like game settings, cars, golf clubs 
Pistol grip shotguns aren't illegal in CA, I would know 
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[QUOTE]On December 15 2012 09:40 Nagano wrote:
[quote][QUOTE]On December 15 2012 09:39 CV-Mackh wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2012 09:38 Nagano wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2012 09:29 Fenris420 wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 15 2012 08:31 Nagano wrote:
ethical killing.[/QUOTE]
That would be a joke right ?[/QUOTE]
No, when you are hunting, you want to bring the least amount of pain and suffering to the animal. [/QUOTE]
I just find the association of killing and ethical kind of ... missplaced,imo killing is never ethical, we are all part of a killing industry because of our meat diet, but still I won't say that makes it ethical. Glad hunter are thinking about animal suffering tho
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That would be a joke right ?
Would you rather the thing suffer for hours? Seriously, you know what he means, a quick kill that puts the animal in the least amount of pain. Stop nit picking to try and further your stance.
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Hey guys, it's people that kill people, not guns, guns PROTECT!!!!!!! They freed us from the shackles of the English monarcy!! (remember this retarded argument?)
Also, individuals arguing that mental illness is the root cause and not guns, should be shot (keen use of irony here).
Sadly, as long as the US keeps its priorities of having a superior economy over the well-being of its citizens (ahem, the immortal NRA, ahem), tragic events like the Connecticut shooting will simply continue to happen.
Would your opinions change if it was your brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, or grandparents were involved?
I'd hope so.
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On December 15 2012 09:43 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:39 jinorazi wrote:pistol grip shotgun is illegal in california... guns should be able to be modified per person's preference like game settings, cars, golf clubs Pistol grip shotguns aren't illegal in CA, I would know
sorry, plus a adjustable stock.
pistol grip + adjustable stock = illegal
from what i understand
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On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ...
In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours.
We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ?
Liberty. There are plenty of restrictions involved in purchasing a firearm already, whether or not more is needed is another matter, but we're discussing gun bans and bans have already been ruled as unconstitutional in many recent cases.
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I hate tragedies like this. So much death and then the idiotic jump to banning guns.
Screen the people more intensively, require them to have regular psych check ups. Don't ban guns, or you'll have a TLer in me starving because his family is a hunting family that would starve without guns to hunt with.
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On December 15 2012 09:46 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:43 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:39 jinorazi wrote:pistol grip shotgun is illegal in california... guns should be able to be modified per person's preference like game settings, cars, golf clubs Pistol grip shotguns aren't illegal in CA, I would know sorry, plus a adjustable stock. pistol grip + adjustable stock = illegal from what i understand
Not anymore, go down to your local FFL dealer and buy one for yourself!
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On December 15 2012 09:45 cozzE wrote:
Hey guys, it's people that kill people, not guns, guns PROTECT!!!!!!! They freed us from the shackles of the English monarcy!! (remember this retarded argument?)
Also, individuals arguing that mental illness is the root cause and not guns, should be shot (keen use of irony here).
Sadly, as long as the US keeps its priorities of having a superior economy over the well-being of its citizens (ahem, the immortal NRA, ahem), tragic events like the Connecticut shooting will simply continue to happen.
Would your opinions change if it was your brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, or grandparents were involved?
I'd hope so.
I'm sure this has been brought up already, but it bears repeating. Guns kill people just as much as spoons make people fat, it is a tool.
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On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:46 jinorazi wrote:On December 15 2012 09:43 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:39 jinorazi wrote:pistol grip shotgun is illegal in california... guns should be able to be modified per person's preference like game settings, cars, golf clubs Pistol grip shotguns aren't illegal in CA, I would know sorry, plus a adjustable stock. pistol grip + adjustable stock = illegal from what i understand Not anymore, go down to your local FFL dealer and buy one for yourself!
where is the "like" button
^_^
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On December 15 2012 09:45 cozzE wrote:
Hey guys, it's people that kill people, not guns, guns PROTECT!!!!!!! They freed us from the shackles of the English monarcy!! (remember this retarded argument?)
Also, individuals arguing that mental illness is the root cause and not guns, should be shot (keen use of irony here).
Sadly, as long as the US keeps its priorities of having a superior economy over the well-being of its citizens (ahem, the immortal NRA, ahem), tragic events like the Connecticut shooting will simply continue to happen.
Would your opinions change if it was your brother, sister, father, mother, uncle, aunt, or grandparents were involved?
I'd hope so.
no, i want the option to protect my loved ones
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On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ?
What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage.
What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too?
You cannot stop all murderous intent.
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On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours.
That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to.
On December 15 2012 09:50 guN-viCe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... The point is, as a quite classical french dude, if I was falling into a nervous breakdown ( let's say a protoss canon rushed my third for the 10th time on the ladder), I could not easily get a gun, it would take me a long time to actually find one ( I am not in a gang or anything ) so I won't be going mad killing people around while yelling about the power of the swarm. Because all I would have would be a cooking knife. I can comprehend that a policeman or a military need them but why giving them to everyone ? We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ? What about knives, swords, axes, cars? Those can do a LOT of damage. What about home-made bombs and home-made poisons? Recipes are on the internet for anyone who wants to know. Should we ban all chemicals too? You cannot stop all murderous intent.
Of course you can't, but you can limit it. I'd rather face someone that grabbed a knife in a fit of rage than someone that grabbed a gun? Chemicals have many uses the comparison doesn't hold. I'm also pretty sure you are not allowed to roam around town holding an axe or a sword.
And there is no denying a gun is more dangerous than a sword, you'd have to be pretty thick to really think that.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 15 2012 09:47 Femari wrote:
I hate tragedies like this. So much death and then the idiotic jump to banning guns.
Screen the people more intensively, require them to have regular psych check ups. Don't ban guns, or you'll have a TLer in me starving because his family is a hunting family that would starve without guns to hunt with.
I think more importantly, banning guns would probably go as poorly as banning alcohol did during the prohibition. If something is already widespread in society banning it just gives power to those who would become illegal dealers of it.
Realistically speaking, we need stricter guidelines on who can legally own guns, and better tracking of guns, gun thefts, and gun crimes. Stopping illegal gun trafficking should also be a top priority, as the majority of crime guns are illegally owned. In theory a good gun control system would include:
1) A licensing and registration system that's better at keeping guns out of crazy people's hands and keeping guns from falling off the grid.
2) A concerted effort to impound and stop the flow of illegal guns into and out of the US.
3) More mandatory gun education for gun owners.
I don't think anything else would be politically feasible or have good outcomes.
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On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to.
i'm new to the term "strawman", is this it?
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On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to.
Then what would you propose--a ban?
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On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. Show nested quote +
We know that the human's mind can be weak and is mostly gonna breakdown during a life time, why would we give humans the means to achieve their worst morbid fantasies ?
Liberty. There are plenty of restrictions involved in purchasing a firearm already, whether or not more is needed is another matter, but we're discussing gun bans and bans have already been ruled as unconstitutional in many recent cases.
In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours.
I wasn't aware of that, thx for the information
Liberty. There are plenty of restrictions involved in purchasing a firearm already, whether or not more is needed is another matter, but we're discussing gun bans and bans have already been ruled as unconstitutional in many recent cases.
I strongly disagree even if I understand your point, I think that one's liberty shall not endanger the rest of his kind, but this is my opinion and I respect yours, I have a french point of view coming from a cultural and social background and debating on this would be clashing two very distinct conception of society. I get your point
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On December 15 2012 09:55 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 09:52 NeonFox wrote:On December 15 2012 09:47 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:38 CV-Mackh wrote:On December 15 2012 09:12 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:10 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2012 09:08 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On December 15 2012 08:45 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 08:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Well they have banned guns in Chicago so if you want to be safe move there.I have heard there is no problem with criminals or gangs there and the murder rate is very low. LOL. Someone should google Chicago crime rates. They are by far the highest in the US and they have a total gun ban there. In fact, crime rates soared after they banned guns and has not gone done since, the citizens there are actually trying to fight the ban so they can have a gun for self defense. It would be nice to be able to make an ironic or sarcastic comment without having to explain that it was thus. Forreal bro. Esk you ruin the joke if you have to explain it! Comedy 101 I know it was sarcastic lol, but most of these foreigners don't know what goes down in Chicago and New York city where there are total gun bans. Crime rates soar, the worst crime in the United States happens where there are total gun bans. Gosh the arguments here XD There are densely populated area, plus the fact that you can basically drive by the nearest state and get all the guns you want kind of negates the ban. Exactly as weed consumption is higher in the North of Belgium (close to Netherlands border for the Americans), crime doesn't know any borders... crossing them with goods is even one of the main way of fueling it so ... In the US, under no circumstances is it legal to purchase/sell any handgun/rifle/shotgun face to face from a resident of any other state without involving a FFL in the buyers home state. Laymen: you cannot buy a guy from another state unless it is legal for you to own in yours. That's not the point. It's not legal, but it's easy since so much guns are in circulation right next to you. Owning a gun is not the pinacle of liberty, is my liberty being restricted if I'm not allowed to buy a landmine? I just want to use it to defend my home, I should be able to. Then what would you propose--a ban?
How about better regulation to start?
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for sweden: no
for the US: fk knows and none of my business
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EPT
