TL.Net regulars are probably most familiar with THQ's RTS offerings Company of Heroes and Dawn of War. These games are made by Relic in Vancouver, BC. I didn't like DoW, but I enjoyed Company of Heroes immensely.
These are hard times for THQ. They recently laid of 17% of their staff and their CEO took a 50% pay cut. If THQ and Relic go down this will be a sad day for every fan of the RTS genre of games. Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however, Relic/THQ brought forward many interesting innovations to RTS gaming. THQ/Relic helps create a competition among game studios that keeps the RTS genre vibrant.
They are losing money by the 10s of millions of dollars. They've closed several of their long standing game studios that were once the foundation of the company. Of the few studios still left standing two big studios rely on Canadian government funding. Relic in British Columbia and THQ-Montreal in Quebec.
The crux of the problem is CEO Brian Farrell. He started with THQ in 1991 and was a big factor in THQ's growth. However, he has lost his midas touch. Farrell is an accounting guy not a "game maker" type of guy. Farrell over the past 5 years has lead THQ to the brink of bankruptcy.
Stock price at over $35 in 2007 is now down to $0.53 The stock price fell from $0.75 to $0.53 shortly after THQ announced their plans for layoffs and future profits on February 2,2012. http://www.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:THQI
Even if THQ goes bankrupt I hope the RTS team within Relic finds a new publisher and RTS games like CoH can continue to be made in the future.
If Relic goes down with THQ or even if its production and creative budgets get slashed it'll be a sad day for the RTS gaming community.
So why don't they just make another game in a non-RTS genre? O_o?
edit: i realize it may take some time... but still.. if you're company is tanking and you're hoping the next Saints Row or Dawn of War will sell, then ya, it's gonna tank....
Damn man, Relic are sweet as fuck. I know Homeworld was received well, Dawn of War was fucking siiiiick, somehow, in some kind of warped reality, all the little imbalances that game suffered somehow made it balanced because every race had 'em. You always had a chance to win no matter what major bug emerged.
Company of Heroes was also pretty amazing. Really good game, spent some time on that too.
Wasn't so hot for DoW2, but Space Marine was pretty awesome. I didn't even touch the single player I just went straight into the madness of multiplayer.
Relic are one of the very few developers that I really do respect. Many of the great ones either get drowned out of existence (RIP Bullfrog) or just get let the quality keep slipping.
On February 05 2012 04:33 TheYango wrote: People remember Relic for DoW and CoH, and not HOMEWORLD?
It'll be sad if they have to close.
I didn't give a crap until I saw this. Homeworld? That was a fucking masterpiece of a game. The amount of poetry and beauty in that game was mind blowing.
Always sad to see a respectable gaming studio/company getting into financial trouble. Their games weren't S-class RTSes like Blizz's but they were fun and good nevertheless. DoW I, CoH, Homeworld were great.
I seriously have had a blast playing every strat game they have ever made. They are very well done games. I would say CoH/DoW (I consider them linked as a style of RTS) to be up there in terms of having a unique and developed feel with the Blizzard RTS series and the C&C series.
They might not have the level of esport around them but thats fine, not every sport is meant for the stadium. That doesn't mean stuff like kick ball and dodge ball suck etc etc.
Homeworld was a serious masterpiece. If you haven't played it it is wroth getting and playing.
The absurd fact in all this is that at this point the WWE license deal and their next few Wrestling titles are what will keep the company alive until Relic can pump out another game.
Yes, you heard it here first... Pro Wrestling is helping preserve the making of RTS games in Canada
On February 05 2012 04:43 Assault_1 wrote: THQ's uDraw thing was one of the biggest failures and reasons for its downfall. I wonder if thq or rim is in a worse position
at least RIM replaced their Co-CEOs. Brian Farrell the guy responsible for THQs recent string of failures is still the CEO and Chairman of the board for THQ.
Kinda makes me want to go out and put in a buy order on a few hundred shares once it stabilizes on the off chance they go back up to previous levels. And to support the company of course >.>
These guys made some seriously fun games and it would be a shame if they went under
On February 05 2012 04:42 Qeet wrote: the first dow was great, but the 2nd was horrible homeworld 1 and 2 were excellent though :o
I think the opposite is true :p
There are many better "standard" RTS than DoW1, I don't see any reason to play it over a Blizzard RTS or SupCom for example, but DoW2 was kinda entertaining for a while because it was different. Haven't played CoH tho, I hate fucking WW settings. € Just realized: SupCom was published by THQ aswell. I want another good SupCom,not like the shitty second one. Chances are probably pretty slim tho, SupCom didn't sell well so the second already had a different publisher.
On February 05 2012 04:42 Al Bundy wrote: What does that mean for Warhammer 40k: Dark Millennium Online ?
ps: Homeworld is a masterpiece indeed. One can't talk Space Opera without mentioning Homeworld.
They can't do it on their own anymore. They're looking for a partner
THQ's in bad shape, but it's still forging ahead with its planned MMO, Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millenium Online. However, the beleaguered publisher won't be able to do it alone. During a financial briefing, the company revealed that it's seeking a development partner to complete the title.
THQ's in bad shape, but it's still forging ahead with its planned MMO, Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millenium Online. However, the beleaguered publisher won't be able to do it alone. During a financial briefing, the company revealed that it's seeking a development partner to complete the title.
(surprised this topic took so long to be created, kind of old)
when i think of THQ, i think of their greatest masterpiece. the most solid, genre-defining, still-unparalleled game in sports entertainment: still the best wrestling game to this day.
People remember Relic for CoH and DoW and not HOMEWORLD??
Also Relic can't balance their games at all, look at all their games. It's one of the reasons why their game don't have a long running online community. Such a shame that a company full of people with a lot of creativity is dragged down by the gameplay and balancing departments.
Examples:
DoW I: Entire Necron race, Eldar fleet of foot DoW II: Let's give nob squads big shootas that does like 15 dps and 100% accuracy on the move! CoH: Let's take away the only thing the Germans have against armor spam, and buff the already OP Allies even more!
On February 05 2012 05:07 G3CKO wrote: People remember Relic for CoH and DoW and not HOMEWORLD??
Also Relic can't balance their games at all, look at all their games. It's one of the reasons why their game don't have a long running online community. Such a shame that a company full of people with a lot of creativity is dragged down by the gameplay and balancing departments.
Examples:
DoW I: Entire Necron race, Eldar fleet of foot DoW II: Let's give nob squads big shootas that does like 15 dps and 100% accuracy on the move! CoH: Let's take away the only thing the Germans have against armor spam, and buff the already OP Allies even more!
the problem with Relic games is not the balance. The biggest problems are bugs and many many RNGs that fuck up any competetiveness
wow.. didn't know it was so bad. I love THQ games, not a lot of company still believes in RTS games. And THQ always did a great job with the Warhammer franchise.
Problem with relic has always been money to support their games, they are always full of good ideas but terrible balance and some questionable managment decisions all along. Sad to mb see them go down though.
On February 05 2012 04:53 DannyJ wrote: Really really wish there was a new Homeworld. I can't believe HW2 was released in 2003.
There was licensing issues for years on end. The ones that wanted to do another title didn't have the license, even though they made the two first games. As it is there wouldn't be enough money in homeworld to justify it now a days (though I do want to see it).
I actually havn't really liked any of their games since Homeworld 2. Though Supreme Commander is pretty good.
i think (read: HOPE) that they will have a little boost after UFC undisputed 3 comes out, i think a lot of people will buy that game now that MMA has gained a lot of popularity the last few years. and the game looks great!
Same for Sony as well but who cares THQ just makes the cookie cutter games that the industry laughs at and then cries when they see how successful selling to lowest level is. Then do the same cause they realise they like money just as much.
TL;DR: I f**king hate THQ and hope they are gonners
So THQ currently owns relic, which in turn means they own the rights to the Homeworld franchise. If THQ goes down, which also means Relic, who do the HW rights go to? Would they become up for grabs?
I think I understand why Dawn of War 2 has something like 32 DLC packs for it now -.-.
As much as I can't stand all those people saying shit like "DoW is so much better than Starcraft cuz SC is just about spamming buttons making a giant army and attacking", I don't think it would be good for a giant money-grubbing company like Activision to lose a competitor.
THQ have been responsible for publishing some awful games in the not so distant past i.e. The 50 cent game (forgotten what it was called), Homefront, even the "Bratz" games, to name a few. The only people worth caring about here are Relic who are, quite frankly, one of the best game developers about. Homeworld, Homeworld 2, CoH, DoW and DoW2 are all legendary games. All, sadly, are underrated and underplayed (though you can get the whole DoW set for about £12 atm on Steam, maybe a time for revival?).
There is no reason to assume that Relic will be dragged under with THQ, but something to look out for. They can move to a different publisher if need be.
On February 05 2012 05:40 aaycumi wrote: Same for Sony as well but who cares THQ just makes the cookie cutter games that the industry laughs at and then cries when they see how successful selling to lowest level is. Then do the same cause they realise they like money just as much.
TL;DR: I f**king hate THQ and hope they are gonners
nWo vs. WCW World Tour, WCW Revenge, Wrestlemania 2000, and No Mercy were hardly "cookie cutter" titles. They were far and away the best games in their genre.
THQ turned AKI into a powerhouse with boatloads of North American cash.
The initial game that started off was actually a Sony game called "WCW vs. The World".
for the first 3 games you had to have a "gentleman's agreement" with ur opponent that no one would hit the analog stick when being pinned .. great times!
On February 05 2012 06:55 ForevaADrone wrote: There is no reason to assume that Relic will be dragged under with THQ, but something to look out for. They can move to a different publisher if need be. No tears here though.
problem is.. Relic gets big tax breaks from the BC gov't in exchange for employee head count guarantees. Relic relies on royalty money from THQ
Anybody remember their game Quest 64 for the Nintendo 64? That game was truly awful.
I am still bitter because I spent 3 month's worth of my childhood allowance on it instead of Banjo Kazooie, which as we all know, was fucking fantastic.
Damn, Company of Heroes was pretty great, in fact it's probably the game that got me into SC2 (I used to watch CoH vods, then from there found SC2 beta vods and found them interesting, decided to check out the community and then was hooked when the game released).
Always sad when a game company goes under I'll keep an eye on them to see if they go for broke as it were and pour everything they've got into one last game in hopes of recovering. If they do I'll be sure to look on it as favorably as possible...
This is very sad news indeed, hopefully the core of people who has worked on the CoH and DoW-series find new homes. Especially since I personally think that CoH is a better game (than SC2 is now, but that says itself not only 2 years in) and has such great potential but the online play just was not there. Also, Relic is needed to keep the RTS genre stay fresh since they have done an immensely good job with the gameplay, very professional if you know what I mean.
If they're going to die, at least make Homeworld 3! I haven't found a space game like it despite my attempts. Sins is fun but the Homeworld franchise has something special.
To all the people talking about Homeworld: THQ and Relic DO NOT own the rights to the Homeworld franchise hence why there has NOT been a Homeworld 3. Come on people. If you liked a game so much at least do the tiny bit of research needed to realize a third was never going to see the light of day.
Sierra Entertainment owns the rights to the Homeworld franchise.
Loved the Warhammer 40k stuff. I'm sure Relic will find a new publisher if THQ will really go bankrupt. I only hope that The Warhammer 40k MMO will still come out
the original dawn of war series was fantastic. admittedly it suffered pretty big balance issues but to be fair they didn't have the resources to work with that blizzard had.
morale, cover, most units having both range and melee attacks, the way the resource system worked.. it all just made the game really fluid to both watch and play, with constant action. if you ever had idle units, you were probably making a mistake.
To all the people talking about Homeworld: THQ and Relic DO NOT own the rights to the Homeworld franchise hence why there has NOT been a Homeworld 3. Come on people. If you liked a game so much at least do the tiny bit of research needed to realize a third was never going to see the light of day.
Sierra Entertainment owns the rights to the Homeworld franchise.
I was never really a fan of these RTS's although I do admit that they did offer a very different style to the traditional popular RTS franchise at the time.
So sad that a company which has pumped out quality titles on a regular basis for some time now, has also suffered from severe mismanagement and fiscal/market strategy.
How the fuck they ever banked so much on the uDraw is beyond me; gimmicky, casual gaming is such a fickle market. The Wii should have been a bigger warning to them.
i don't like to see any company go down, but i haven't played any games from THQ. why would they bank so much on udraw? they are making decisions thinking like a businessman and not like a gamer.
On February 05 2012 08:49 Terranist wrote: i don't like to see any company go down, but i haven't played any games from THQ. why would they bank so much on udraw? they are making decisions thinking like a businessman and not like a gamer.
I dont get that point. Activision makes decisions thinking like businessmen instead of thinking like gamers and theyre doing extremely well
On February 05 2012 07:52 StorkHwaiting wrote: To all the people talking about Homeworld: THQ and Relic DO NOT own the rights to the Homeworld franchise hence why there has NOT been a Homeworld 3. Come on people. If you liked a game so much at least do the tiny bit of research needed to realize a third was never going to see the light of day.
Sierra Entertainment owns the rights to the Homeworld franchise.
On February 05 2012 07:52 StorkHwaiting wrote: To all the people talking about Homeworld: THQ and Relic DO NOT own the rights to the Homeworld franchise hence why there has NOT been a Homeworld 3. Come on people. If you liked a game so much at least do the tiny bit of research needed to realize a third was never going to see the light of day.
Sierra Entertainment owns the rights to the Homeworld franchise.
On February 05 2012 08:49 Terranist wrote: i don't like to see any company go down, but i haven't played any games from THQ. why would they bank so much on udraw? they are making decisions thinking like a businessman and not like a gamer.
I dont get that point. Activision makes decisions thinking like businessmen instead of thinking like gamers and theyre doing extremely well
I'm not sure whether them making decisions like buisnessmen, rather than gamers is the reason they're collapsing, but isn't comparing THQ and Activision a little like comparing apples to oranges? Activision has extremely large and established franchises under their belts that they can exploit using a business first mentality with no negative impact on sales. THQ doesn't, and risks alienating fans if they do things like Activision does, nay?
It sucks to see THQ go down, though. They funded a lot of series' that I enjoyed... metro 2033, the saints row series and all of relic's works... I hope those dev teams find a publisher after. I'm pretty sure volition and relic will be able to, but I'm not so hopeful for 4A Games.
Kinda OT but: Anyone whos played the DoW or DoW2 games, was the cover mechanic or any of the other tactical mechanics for combat good for adding depth to the gameplay or were those things just gimmicks?
On February 05 2012 07:48 Grohg wrote: If they're going to die, at least make Homeworld 3! I haven't found a space game like it despite my attempts. Sins is fun but the Homeworld franchise has something special.
well, THQ the game developer won't disappear, they will be bought out by someone and their studio will most likely stay intact. This has happened many times where companies get integrated into new ones and still make the same games. Off the top of my head I know Bungie and Blizzard (yea they didn't go out of business, this is just an example) both got assimilated by bigger companies but they are still making their games independently (if not for some collateral from the publishers like activision and microsoft)
On February 05 2012 07:48 Grohg wrote: If they're going to die, at least make Homeworld 3! I haven't found a space game like it despite my attempts. Sins is fun but the Homeworld franchise has something special.
Get the X serie by Egosoft. :d
No, really don't. You can't play any of the X games and do anything else at all. Hardest to learn games ever (but I got soooooo into X2).
EDIT: Homeworld 3 would be the SHIT. Homeworld 1 & 2 were amazing games and I never got why nobody else has copied them successfully yet.
Homeworld 1 & Cataclysm were masterpieces of RTS storytelling. Homeworld 2 slipped up on the story a little, but made it up in gameplay. Very sad to see this happen.
Well I once upon a time bought THQ Complete Pack in a Steam sale and have yet to play them all but there are some great titles there. Metro, FEAR, Stalker, SR2, just to name a few. Other publishers have survived on far worse catalogues. THQ needs a change in management and probably some aggressive restructuring but I believe they have the products there to become successful again.
Not only was DoW terrible but it was expensive as hell to make and relied on expansion packs to keep it alive. Those expansion packs just made it even more of a gamble when few of them sold.
On February 05 2012 09:58 Supamang wrote: Kinda OT but: Anyone whos played the DoW or DoW2 games, was the cover mechanic or any of the other tactical mechanics for combat good for adding depth to the gameplay or were those things just gimmicks?
I competed in DoW for two years (WCG USA 2005 qualifier, WCG USA 2006 Silver Medalist). It added to the overall strategic depth and, with the lack of direct unit control and the bugs that existed in the game, were pretty impactfull in allowing one player to be better than another. My quick thoughts:
In essence, cover allowed for a large choke point at certain parts of the map. Rather than constructing ramps and small entrances to create defender's advantage, it allowed the map to be more open with the same net effect in some areas. Similar to Starcraft, you have units that could negate this effect via superior range or mobility, but overall it was a unique way to create a defender's advantage in certain areas of the map that didn't rely on units passing through single-file. Keeping tabs on one's opponent army and knowing which cover areas one needed to control often determined results of a given game.
Morale gave a reason to not just focus down a single unit all the time. In Starcraft, one would be insane to change targets before a unit was killed due to the reduction in DPS along with them not being able to then save the unit itself. In DOW, it became a tradeoff. Do you continue to focus down a morale broken squad - thus ensuring its removal from the board? Or do you change targets to attempt to start reducing the combat effectiveness of another squad - but risk that the morale broken squad might recover or that both squads may be able to make it away? It is a small addition to normal unit micromanagement that made deciding upon targets a bit trickier.
Range vs Melee attacks was a bit of a gimmick as ranged units shat on melee units if one had one more ranged squad than melee. However, it did again add to strategy in that getting a similar speed melee unit to tie up a powerhouse range unit was often essential. Or you might use a Melee units range attack to do some damage while you got into range or retreated. Basically - added a bit of battle micromanagement in this sense, but it wasn't something one really had to think about.
I'm not sure what other mechanics you might consider under the "tactical" aspect. I also cannot speak about DOW2 as I only played it in the beta and don't think it had as much depth as DOW.
Maybe it's because I haven't played Homeworld but I find it hard to care about this. Relic is like the epitome of casual RTS and the big debate on The Escapist forums by the Relic fanboys a few years back still makes me pissed off whenever I think about it again.
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Anyone whos played the DoW or DoW2 games, was the cover mechanic or any of the other tactical mechanics for combat good for adding depth to the gameplay or were those things just gimmicks?
If you actually played DoW2 against anyone half decent, you would know that the cover mechanic is not a gimmick.
Has there actually been any news on a Homeworld 3 or is this all just hoping?
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
I'm not going to take the time to do it, but I'm fairly sure someone could empirically prove the superiority of SC/SC2 to the DoW franchise. I played DoW 1 ALOT and it was the first RTS I played competitively but to say that it is better than SC is a stretch.
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
I'm not going to take the time to do it, but I'm fairly sure someone could empirically prove the superiority of SC/SC2 to the DoW franchise. I played DoW 1 ALOT and it was the first RTS I played competitively but to say that it is better than SC is a stretch.
There is no empirical quality to taste in a video game. Sorry.
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
I'm not going to take the time to do it, but I'm fairly sure someone could empirically prove the superiority of SC/SC2 to the DoW franchise. I played DoW 1 ALOT and it was the first RTS I played competitively but to say that it is better than SC is a stretch.
He said Wings of Liberty, not Broodwar. Company of Heroes is an incredibly fun game and I could see why someone would think its better.
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
I'm not going to take the time to do it, but I'm fairly sure someone could empirically prove the superiority of SC/SC2 to the DoW franchise. I played DoW 1 ALOT and it was the first RTS I played competitively but to say that it is better than SC is a stretch.
You should attempt to read his post first, he said compared to Wings of Liberty, not BW, there are good points for both games so it would be fair to say that some people see those as a better game in their opinions. But to his original point, he's right. You don't claim opinions as fact.
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
I'm not going to take the time to do it, but I'm fairly sure someone could empirically prove the superiority of SC/SC2 to the DoW franchise. I played DoW 1 ALOT and it was the first RTS I played competitively but to say that it is better than SC is a stretch.
You should attempt to read his post first, he said compared to Wings of Liberty, not BW, there are good points for both games so it would be fair to say that some people see those as a better game in their opinions. But to his original point, he's right. You don't claim opinions as fact.
BW is above every other strategy game. But SC2 and DoW series are pretty even imo, neither one kept me playing for more than the campaign though.
You know why I love Relic? Not because of DoW (played DoW 2 + Retri quite alot), but because of fantastic Homeworld. For me it's one of those rare gems which makes my life better every time I remember it. I even replay games in a few years. Cataclysm = my most favorite of all three HWs, the story, the narration, the mystique, the drama. <3
EDIT: Barking Dog developed Cataclysm, just checked. Anyways. Any HW still stands firm in my book
Compared to Vanilla and CR, Retribution is pretty good and still patched. I liked DoW 1 but not really it's expansions. Hoping for them to survive this, while their games weren't always of highest class, they certainly were entertaining.
Wow! This is so sad ! CoH Was such an innovative and brilliant title ! It's the only other somewhat recent RTS game I consider to be a great RTS other than SC2.
Just in-case for some of you coh fans don't know. http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/ Is the "teamliquid" of coh. There is also currently a tournament going on and weekly SNF (Sunday night fights) with a few hundred viewers. Please visit us. We are small, but it has a lot of potential!
While I was certainly surprised by the news, I took a glance at THQ's game lineup and they shit out tons of low grade casual games. Not even a reasonable amount of them, but a lot of them.
That's a shame, I really enjoy DoW series. I never ended up playing it that much when SC2 came along, but bought all the expansions. DoWII the main game kept updating and they kept patching it for months after, it was really great support (I know we get the same in SC2).
On February 05 2012 04:33 TheYango wrote: People remember Relic for DoW and CoH, and not HOMEWORLD?
It'll be sad if they have to close.
wait what? how can that failure of an RTS-games company ever produce something half decent like homeworld 1? of course homeworld 2 was a failure so i suppose if you follow the dow series the same path happens (starts good gets worse)
relic will probably be fine. they seem to be pretty successful and if THQ does somehow go under (which it sounds like they won't, at least for the time being), a different publisher will surely pick them up (or hell, going indie wouldn't be a bad option either now that digital distribution is so popular).
On February 05 2012 04:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Neither title is as good as Brood War or WoL, however.
I get that this is a Starcraft forum, but the amount of fanboyism/needless favoritism is just stunning. You can't express your opinion as fact, you know. Personally, I thought both CoH, DoWI and DoWII far exceeded WoL in almost every possible way. But hey, that's just an opinion. I'm not going to claim it as a fact, and while you think the opposite, you should not do that either.
I'm not going to take the time to do it, but I'm fairly sure someone could empirically prove the superiority of SC/SC2 to the DoW franchise. I played DoW 1 ALOT and it was the first RTS I played competitively but to say that it is better than SC is a stretch.
You should attempt to read his post first, he said compared to Wings of Liberty, not BW, there are good points for both games so it would be fair to say that some people see those as a better game in their opinions. But to his original point, he's right. You don't claim opinions as fact.
BW is above every other strategy game. But SC2 and DoW series are pretty even imo, neither one kept me playing for more than the campaign though.
Then you don't really know what you're talking about, do you?
Homeworld was the first RTS I ever played, and the game that got me to fall in love with playing RTS online forever. Every since Homeworld came out I was playing on the ladder, practicing, etc . . . played that all the way up until Homeworld 2 came out, and did the same until that ran it's course. Then, Relic came out with Dawn of War, so I jumped straight into that, and found out about competitive gaming. So in a very direct way, I owe everything I've ever done in pro gaming to Relic and Homeworld. It will be an extremely sad day if Relic goes under. I loved every single RTS Relic put out. I literally grew up playing those games. I played HW and HW2 every single day and night for my whole childhood, and when I graduated high school, I was still playing Relic games, practicing Dawn of War for 10 hours every day for WCG and the like. This is really, really bad news and I'm very saddened by it.
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Eldar was fine. It was Ork, with all the building guns, you practically had to take the whole map before you could attack them. Bullcrap.
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Eldar was fine. It was Ork, with all the building guns, you practically had to take the whole map before you could attack them. Bullcrap.
trying playing ig vs. eldar. dow balance was so fucked haha, so many free loss match-ups. epic fun game but you gotta think if only they had blizzard-esque resources..
but the best thing about orks was the burna bomb (delete). fuck that was a funny bug. definitely the best balance breaking bug in any game ever. ork mirror if it made it to t3 with free sluggas + burna bomb delete was sooooo funny. orks just in general were friggen hilarious mind you.
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Eldar was fine. It was Ork, with all the building guns, you practically had to take the whole map before you could attack them. Bullcrap.
trying playing ig vs. eldar. dow balance was so fucked haha, so many free loss match-ups. epic fun game but you gotta think if only they had blizzard-esque resources..
but the best thing about orks was the burna bomb (delete). fuck that was a funny bug. definitely the best balance breaking bug in any game ever. ork mirror if it made it to t3 with free sluggas + burna bomb delete was sooooo funny. orks just in general were friggen hilarious mind you.
necrons were the least funny imbalance ever.
Dark Crusade wasn't that imbalanced. Unless u were playing at the top level, you could beat any race with any race.
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Eldar was fine. It was Ork, with all the building guns, you practically had to take the whole map before you could attack them. Bullcrap.
trying playing ig vs. eldar. dow balance was so fucked haha, so many free loss match-ups. epic fun game but you gotta think if only they had blizzard-esque resources..
but the best thing about orks was the burna bomb (delete). fuck that was a funny bug. definitely the best balance breaking bug in any game ever. ork mirror if it made it to t3 with free sluggas + burna bomb delete was sooooo funny. orks just in general were friggen hilarious mind you.
necrons were the least funny imbalance ever.
Dark Crusade wasn't that imbalanced. Unless u were playing at the top level, you could beat any race with any race.
yeah, if you were considerably better. some matchups were horrible at every level, like necron/ig.
i actually kinda wanna play it again now.. just the thought of burna bombing shit.
you know times are desperate with THQ when re-releasing a slow moving 20+ year old arcade wrestling title on the iPad for like $5 becomes a press release.
On February 21 2012 23:48 Brootalbro wrote: Activision Blizzard should buy out THQ. Then Blizzard can have more RTS guys.
Wouldn't even be that bad of an idea to buy their good selling titles for a cheap price. If these great rts minds can work together imagine what could come out of it :o.
Companies like that making some of the most enjoyable games these years go down and yet companies like Activision and Ubi are crawling under money .. so sad :|
On February 05 2012 04:33 TheYango wrote: People remember Relic for DoW and CoH, and not HOMEWORLD?
^This is exactly what I thought when I read the OP.
Damn kids today don't know nothin' DoW was a good game, but Homeworld is an experience in itself. Also, anyone who says that Sins is the superior game clearly has never played Homeworld. What an ungodly amazing game it is.
I also think of THQ as the company beind the original Red Faction, which despite being a bit "on rails" was a supremely fun game and one of the better cross-platform FPSes ever made IMO; and it was done in an era where cross platform FPSes had a tendency to be terrible. I nor anyone I know ever played and of the poorly concieved sequels in the series though. Was a shame to see such a good game followed by such mediocre titles.
Warhammer 40k: Space Marine is also really fun so far. I got it during the steam sale a few weekends ago for $17, totally worth that, though I don't know that I would want to pay much more. Not terribly much depth but killing hundreds of orks with a chain sword is really fun.
Overall when I think about it, most of the PC games that THQ has published have all been pretty good, would be a real shame to see them go under.
I have a female friend working in THQ Montreal studio. I was really surprised that she out of all my friends would end up working with video games, since i have a lot of gamer friends and she's a linguistic (is that even the correct word? ) . Sad to hear these kind of news.
THQ Montreal recieves $25,000 per employee per year.. as a result THQ has over emphasized hiring for that studio.. and they are putting square pegs in round holes because of that government cash..
this is really sad man
THQ releases a 20+ year old Arcade wrestling game that is really really mediocre mechanics and is flat out dull. and they make it a "press release".
THQ used to be one of my favorite producers, with superb games like CoH, Dawn of War 1 and the super underrated Homeworld, but it's been a while since they showed anything decent. A bunch of crappy console-games with close to no depth and that disgrace that was Dawn of War 2. I actually bought it on day 1, based on the reputation of THQ with RTS-games, but they completely caved to the pressure of the decline. They stripped almost all strategy from the game and turned it into a shallow game where you just run around with a few squads all game. No base-building, limited resource management, very little diversity. Went back to playing Dawn of War 1 shortly after.
It would be a shame if they went under, considering the massively successful games that Relic has created. Homeworld 1+2, DoW 1, CoH were all absolutely stellar games
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Eldar was fine. It was Ork, with all the building guns, you practically had to take the whole map before you could attack them. Bullcrap.
Someone didn't play at a high enough level... Clearly. As for people saying Dark Crusade was pretty balanced? Oh jees... Winter Assualt was the closest and even then there was stupid things that would make certain maps and MUs unplayable
As for THQ going down, it'll be a loss for RTS gamers everywhere, they've always made good RTS games, obviously not on the level Starcraft was but they were always enjoyable
if they were responsible for the DoW game I played a couple weekends ago for free on steam, I can understand why they're going out of business. What a terrible, terrible game.
Sad to see any game company go under as an avid gamer but if you put out bad titles, i'm not sure what they can expect.
On February 24 2012 07:43 crms wrote: if they were responsible for the DoW game I played a couple weekends ago for free on steam, I can understand why they're going out of business. What a terrible, terrible game.
Sad to see any game company go under as an avid gamer but if you put out bad titles, i'm not sure what they can expect.
Which one was that? They published 2 Warhammer 40k: DoW titles and I think 2 other Warhammer 40k titles.
On February 24 2012 07:43 crms wrote: if they were responsible for the DoW game I played a couple weekends ago for free on steam, I can understand why they're going out of business. What a terrible, terrible game.
Sad to see any game company go under as an avid gamer but if you put out bad titles, i'm not sure what they can expect.
I realize this is a Starcraft website, but the amount of irrational hatred that the DoW2 games get from this community really makes me sad. I realize the Relic games aren't what you would consider a traditional RTS, but they are incredibly innovative and interesting. Are they as balanced and polished as a Blizzard game? Well no, they don't have unlimited money. But they're breaking new ground, doing stuff no one else is with the genra. Not all of these experiments work, but there's more than enough good points to make up for the bad ones.
Honestly, if I had to choose between Blizzard or Relic continuing to make RTS games, I'd have to choose Relic. Blizzard is going to spend the rest of their RTS making life trying to recapture what was so great about Broodwar. I can still go back and play Broodwar anytime I want, I don't really see any innovation coming out of Blizzard for RTS almost ever again. Relic on the other hand has done crazy stuff with all 3 of their RTS games, Homeworld, CoH and DoW. All of these are unique and interesting in their own right, that they all came out of one developer is insane. The fact that this same developer is being brought down by a crappy publisher is even crazier, and makes me deeply sad.
That big Warhammer 40K MMO has been "refocused" into a different kind of game and, as a result, they can't afford to keep people. Originally, it was designed to be an MMO with monthly payments and was being projected as a giant cash cow. But, that is no more.
You can call them innovative all you want, but if the game isn't fun it doesn't matter. DoW2 was pretty awful and the expansions to CoH completely ruined the series for me. You can use that defense for alot of RTS games that have come out but it doesn't save them from being bad. Just an unpolished game with gimmick mechanics to gain sales.
DoW2 was a great game, and the change in tactical direction was the best thing they could have done for that series. a 40k RTS shouldn't be about basebuilding and macroing your econ to resupply mass ammounts of troops. It should be about having limited troops and using them in a tactical way. If you want to play Starcraft with 40k models, play DoW1.
Don't tarnish the great things with DoW2 because you were too poor of a player to recognize the great things they did to that game.
On April 01 2012 02:23 Disarray wrote: DoW2 was a great game, and the change in tactical direction was the best thing they could have done for that series. a 40k RTS shouldn't be about basebuilding and macroing your econ to resupply mass ammounts of troops. It should be about having limited troops and using them in a tactical way. If you want to play Starcraft with 40k models, play DoW1.
Don't tarnish the great things with DoW2 because you were too poor of a player to recognize the great things they did to that game.
DoW 1 wasnt macro heavy at all and definitely cant be compared to Starcraft. It had minimal base building and very dynamic eco and combat systems.
DoW 2 was more about capping points than it was about fighting and thats why it failed.
On April 01 2012 02:17 mrgerry wrote: You can call them innovative all you want, but if the game isn't fun it doesn't matter. DoW2 was pretty awful and the expansions to CoH completely ruined the series for me. You can use that defense for alot of RTS games that have come out but it doesn't save them from being bad. Just an unpolished game with gimmick mechanics to gain sales.
To be honest, DOW2's single player campaign was miles beyond SC2's. SC2's campaign was pretty much like every other RTS campaign I've played over the last decade (with way too much hand-holding) whereas DOW2's (and its expansion packs) was a breath of fresh air.
Sad to see relic losing employees. They've really made their mark on the RTS scene with COH and both DOW games.
It's pretty obvious that companies like Relic will get picked up by another publisher, since they have established series created from them, if THQ goes under.
On April 01 2012 04:03 TehPrime wrote: It's pretty obvious that companies like Relic will get picked up by another publisher, since they have established series created from them, if THQ goes under.
no, that is not obvious.
do you know how many employees worked for Relic before and after this layoff of 39 people? no? :D
Relic does not own the IP.
Relic is crippled by these layoffs and most of the employees who created the games of their hey day are long gone.
if another publisher picks them up they may take a few key employees from Relic and incorporate them into a different studio as happened with EALA and Victory/BioWare.
unless u own a crystal ball u have no idea what the future of the now crippled Relic is.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo my beloved comany of heroes if thq goes down this is going to be very bad people arent seeing this but the industry is becoming more and more contrained by the day ask yourself how many companies have been bought out or have gone bankrupt in the last 10 years and then ask yourself whose left- JUST THE BIG GUYS EA, Activision, Blizzard, Konami, and Ubisoft im probably forgetting a few but those are the biggest i guess Sony and Microsoft technically count but you get the idea
Edit: as someone stated above the future of relic is not certain at all and what is more likely to happen is there all going to be picked up by different studios i dont want to know what things are gonna be like 10 years from now when there are only like 10 games coming out in a year
although one may say these RTS' dont have the 'esports' factor BW/SC2 has, many can say these games were damn fun games
It's a pity, I loved the original dawn of war (disliked DoW2 though), Homeworld was every scifi fleet battle fanboy's jizzdream and Company of Heroes still is one of my favorite games
On February 05 2012 05:07 G3CKO wrote: People remember Relic for CoH and DoW and not HOMEWORLD??
Also Relic can't balance their games at all, look at all their games. It's one of the reasons why their game don't have a long running online community. Such a shame that a company full of people with a lot of creativity is dragged down by the gameplay and balancing departments.
Examples:
DoW I: Entire Necron race, Eldar fleet of foot DoW II: Let's give nob squads big shootas that does like 15 dps and 100% accuracy on the move! CoH: Let's take away the only thing the Germans have against armor spam, and buff the already OP Allies even more!
lol have you ever played COH germans have the best armor and might i add the pak 38 owns tanks what exactly did they take away? The germans excel on maps with bridges which was a majority of them btw i play both allies and germans and the game is pretty balanced at this point. Also allied armor is shit anyway a few panthers at a choke and say goodbye also the germans have the flak 88 have you even played the game recently allied use pretty much all infantry and m4 sherman for support thats it no one masses m4 shermans anymore
Yea... it's really sad when mismanagement of a once great company leads to it's bankruptcy. Why does the CEO only get a 50% pay cut, when he should get replaced entirely.
On February 24 2012 03:19 Lann555 wrote: disgrace that was Dawn of War 2. I actually bought it on day 1, based on the reputation of THQ with RTS-games, but they completely caved to the pressure of the decline. They stripped almost all strategy from the game and turned it into a shallow game where you just run around with a few squads all game. No base-building, limited resource management, very little diversity. Went back to playing Dawn of War 1 shortly after.
Ah, gaming....what happened to you?
Did you even give DoW2 a try? It is actually harder to play than DoW1 and has much more complex resource management (and more resources to manage). The lack of base building is working great for this game.
On April 01 2012 04:03 TehPrime wrote: It's pretty obvious that companies like Relic will get picked up by another publisher, since they have established series created from them, if THQ goes under.
no, that is not obvious.
do you know how many employees worked for Relic before and after this layoff of 39 people? no? :D
Relic does not own the IP.
Relic is crippled by these layoffs and most of the employees who created the games of their hey day are long gone.
if another publisher picks them up they may take a few key employees from Relic and incorporate them into a different studio as happened with EALA and Victory/BioWare.
unless u own a crystal ball u have no idea what the future of the now crippled Relic is.
Well. if 19% of their staff was laid off... And you say 39 people were laid off, what ever would the answer be??
On February 24 2012 03:19 Lann555 wrote: disgrace that was Dawn of War 2. I actually bought it on day 1, based on the reputation of THQ with RTS-games, but they completely caved to the pressure of the decline. They stripped almost all strategy from the game and turned it into a shallow game where you just run around with a few squads all game. No base-building, limited resource management, very little diversity. Went back to playing Dawn of War 1 shortly after.
Ah, gaming....what happened to you?
Did you even give DoW2 a try? It is actually harder to play than DoW1 and has much more complex resource management (and more resources to manage). The lack of base building is working great for this game.
Played both a lot, but what you're saying is plain wrong. DoW hit it on the nail. You spent a miniscule amount of time macroing but still had lots of options (depending on the expansion and how fucked up the balance was respectively. During DC the game was almost unplayable for example). But at its core the mechanics worked much better than the DoW 2 ones which made you cap points over and over and over. Its was not entertaining and certainly not complex. You essentially spent more time macroing, because you had to use your army to cap points instead of interacting with your opponent.
DoW1 was also about capping points and what most players did was battling over them most of the time. What's different in DoW2? The only thing that comes to my mind would be early base rushes, but that's such a small part of it that it's negligible.
On topic: THQ seems to be grasping at every possible straw. This march 75% off mass sale for example...
THQ is just the vanguard of the video game bubble bursting.
Most of the major publisher's stocks have either been flat or trending down for the last 5 years. Dumping $50 million into each game and not having them recoup costs is killing the industry. It's looking more and more likely that the indie/small-time game is going to be the major driver, not massive triple A undertakings.
On February 05 2012 05:07 G3CKO wrote: People remember Relic for CoH and DoW and not HOMEWORLD??
Also Relic can't balance their games at all, look at all their games. It's one of the reasons why their game don't have a long running online community. Such a shame that a company full of people with a lot of creativity is dragged down by the gameplay and balancing departments.
Examples:
DoW I: Entire Necron race, Eldar fleet of foot DoW II: Let's give nob squads big shootas that does like 15 dps and 100% accuracy on the move! CoH: Let's take away the only thing the Germans have against armor spam, and buff the already OP Allies even more!
The balancing and gameplay departments weren't the problem in Relic (or at least, DoW/CoH), from what I observed (although obviously I can't prove it). They knew exactly what was wrong with the game and continually had good input, balance suggestions and so on from the top players. As for this input, I know they reported to the game designers and the producers. It looked like they jsut got ignored. Repeatedly. From my own personal point of view, it was no surprise that the moment I was talking to depressed, and restless members of the balance team that the quality of Relic games began to slip significantly.. These guys knew what the problems were - and they had lists reporting them. The opinions were there for the management to heed, and they clearly did not. DoW2 and CoH really reflected this, which is about the time I stopped having anything to do with Relic, beyond writing one last Blog Post ripping into DoW2. The decrease in quality didn't stop, it just sped up - and I believe more and more of it had to do with THQ.
Trust me, it was very clear to anyone with an ear to the management in that game who played competitively that the producers did not give the slightest fuck about game balance or design the second it contrasted with their 'vision' of how the game should work. The farce through not balancing a game-winning bug stack-able usable through competitive MP in SoulStorm for months proved it.
Relic bleeding cash and Talent is a shame, because they have always had the ability to turn it around and produce great titles like the Homeworld series, or DoW. But from what I personally saw being involved in their communities and games, the seeds of their downfall were sown a long time ago, and that also reflects on the greater THQ organisation. That their current CEO was more of a number-cruncher who valued the 'audience' over product also doesn't surprise me.
On April 02 2012 13:25 Manit0u wrote: DoW1 was also about capping points and what most players did was battling over them most of the time. What's different in DoW2? The only thing that comes to my mind would be early base rushes, but that's such a small part of it that it's negligible.
Tells me you haven't really played the first game.
When I was little I remember that whenever I felt like I was playing a shitty console game be it Playstation or N64, I would see those letters THQ flash on the screen... and thus THQ would forever be burned into my head as a developer of shitty games.
Never played DoW or CoH. Kinda makes sense when it's THQ who keeps reeling out poopoo movie games and perpetuates the unfortunate cycle
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Now that takes me back. Ahh Santi, the golden days when your advice was sought after by all those who hated Eldar and your humour was admired by many. Even now I have dreams about those days. (Me=NightRapier btw).
As for the general topic, I think we can all agree that love it or hate it, DoW was a big name in the RTS franchise for some time. CoH was big too (maybe bigger, I never got into the competitive scene for it myself). And almighty mother of god, if you think Homeworld (mainly the original, Vaygr are small time) is anything short of the bee's knees then you must surely be an Australian who votes Labour. If Relic goes under, RTS has very little big names to keep it chugging along as a genre. I mean, let's be honest: good old fashioned RTS are one of the few genres still in existence (RIP Space Sims, Freespace 2 you will never be topped) that bring a true level of satisfaction and achievement into the gameplay without grinding your hours away Runescape style. Let's have a look at the genres alive today:
-RPG's that aren't RPG's (Hurrrrr I'm the Catalyst I'm 8 years old, oh hello evil synthetics that don't exist yet I heard you like killing all humans so I put a synthetic in your humans so you can kill all humans while you prevent killing all humans, also shitty gunplay and blue alien sex and stupid sexy femshepherd in spandex). -FPS that are not FPS (AMERICUUUUUH, FUCK YEAR, Hey guys people have been complaining that Quake III was too hard so we'll make your guns shoot for you and bring in 6 million squadmates and replace everything ever with scripted events, it's like watching a movie but they need to pay for a mouse and keyboard! PROMOTE THAT MAN!) -Indie games (Recettear and Plants vs Zombies are cool, sure. But it's just like monkeys on typewriters, if you let 10,000 nobodies make nobody games for nobodies then 10 are guaranteed to be good). -MMORPG (Or "Dr. People who aren't WoW or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Bankruptcy). -RTS (For men, by men. It's like the barbells and tuna sandwiches of gaming.)
If RTS dies to be replaced by "Starcraft" (and Total War if you want to count TBS/RTS), sure the genre still rocks but it lacks any variety at all, which basically makes it a dead genre. That's my concern here: not that idiot managers lose their jobs so they can go get a real job breaking rocks and showering with muscular bearded men who knock down trees for a hobby, but that Relic will suffer and RTS will die. Perhaps this is just my kneejerk reaction, but I cannot be the only one who thinks of RTS and immediately thinks "Blizzard and Relic". It will be a sad day indeed if Relic gets sucked into the mismanagement that is THQ. If there was any justice EA would go down too.
On April 02 2012 15:53 0mar wrote: THQ is just the vanguard of the video game bubble bursting.
Most of the major publisher's stocks have either been flat or trending down for the last 5 years. Dumping $50 million into each game and not having them recoup costs is killing the industry. It's looking more and more likely that the indie/small-time game is going to be the major driver, not massive triple A undertakings.
everything you said is wrong its the tripple A titles that will stay and the SMALL titles will go do you know anything about the industry? why dont you take a look at all the small studios that have closed down the big guys are the ones sticking around use your head its a valuable asset there are only a few cases where a good game was made and didnt sell well enough to recoup costs please educate yourself more before you make comments that are mostly untrue. the one true thing you said is the stocks of all of these companies have been dropping but that because just 4 years ago we had an economic crash and everyones stocks were dropping and there not all going down you know look at activision and blizzard there still going strong and so is ubisoft and EA although they have both had their fair share of flop titles
On February 06 2012 03:21 Santiago4ever wrote: Nerf Eldar
I find it hard to imagine a company such as Relic going into the gutter, I really hope THQ doesn't manage to go under and bring them with them in the fall. Now go make me a DoW3 that is a polished DoW1 without all the crap from DoW2!!! Also, make me Homeworld 3 now. Shut up and take my money if you do!
Now that takes me back. Ahh Santi, the golden days when your advice was sought after by all those who hated Eldar and your humour was admired by many. Even now I have dreams about those days. (Me=NightRapier btw).
As for the general topic, I think we can all agree that love it or hate it, DoW was a big name in the RTS franchise for some time. CoH was big too (maybe bigger, I never got into the competitive scene for it myself). And almighty mother of god, if you think Homeworld (mainly the original, Vaygr are small time) is anything short of the bee's knees then you must surely be an Australian who votes Labour. If Relic goes under, RTS has very little big names to keep it chugging along as a genre. I mean, let's be honest: good old fashioned RTS are one of the few genres still in existence (RIP Space Sims, Freespace 2 you will never be topped) that bring a true level of satisfaction and achievement into the gameplay without grinding your hours away Runescape style. Let's have a look at the genres alive today:
-RPG's that aren't RPG's (Hurrrrr I'm the Catalyst I'm 8 years old, oh hello evil synthetics that don't exist yet I heard you like killing all humans so I put a synthetic in your humans so you can kill all humans while you prevent killing all humans, also shitty gunplay and blue alien sex and stupid sexy femshepherd in spandex). -FPS that are not FPS (AMERICUUUUUH, FUCK YEAR, Hey guys people have been complaining that Quake III was too hard so we'll make your guns shoot for you and bring in 6 million squadmates and replace everything ever with scripted events, it's like watching a movie but they need to pay for a mouse and keyboard! PROMOTE THAT MAN!) -Indie games (Recettear and Plants vs Zombies are cool, sure. But it's just like monkeys on typewriters, if you let 10,000 nobodies make nobody games for nobodies then 10 are guaranteed to be good). -MMORPG (Or "Dr. People who aren't WoW or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Bankruptcy). -RTS (For men, by men. It's like the barbells and tuna sandwiches of gaming.)
If RTS dies to be replaced by "Starcraft" (and Total War if you want to count TBS/RTS), sure the genre still rocks but it lacks any variety at all, which basically makes it a dead genre. That's my concern here: not that idiot managers lose their jobs so they can go get a real job breaking rocks and showering with muscular bearded men who knock down trees for a hobby, but that Relic will suffer and RTS will die. Perhaps this is just my kneejerk reaction, but I cannot be the only one who thinks of RTS and immediately thinks "Blizzard and Relic". It will be a sad day indeed if Relic gets sucked into the mismanagement that is THQ. If there was any justice EA would go down too.
I will concede, however, that reric make bug.
i feel the same way RTS genre is drying up on titles all i think of when i think RTS is blizzard, relic, and EA (and a little bit of total war). and then i thought wait i wonder how many RTS games are even coming out in the next year or so i could only think of 2 C&C generals 2 and HOTS this is sad. as a sidenote i still play COH by the way for anyone who has that game there is a mod called modern combat its COH revamped and they brough it to modern day they added in helis tanks all the new infantry humvs the list goes on its really good give it a try its free also the people who made it work for relic and they improved the tank ai drastically probably the only thing that was bad about company of heroes main point is soon the only publishers/ developers left will be ubisoft, EA, Blizzard, Activision(the producer of shitty games that are all pretty much the same) for thq to go under i feel is almost inevitable but if relic can be saved and picked up by blizzard or publisher that wont rush them then atleast we didnt lose the important part of THQ
On April 02 2012 15:53 0mar wrote: THQ is just the vanguard of the video game bubble bursting.
Most of the major publisher's stocks have either been flat or trending down for the last 5 years. Dumping $50 million into each game and not having them recoup costs is killing the industry. It's looking more and more likely that the indie/small-time game is going to be the major driver, not massive triple A undertakings.
everything you said is wrong its the tripple A titles that will stay and the SMALL titles will go do you know anything about the industry? why dont you take a look at all the small studios that have closed down the big guys are the ones sticking around use your head its a valuable asset there are only a few cases where a good game was made and didnt sell well enough to recoup costs please educate yourself more before you make comments that are mostly untrue. the one true thing you said is the stocks of all of these companies have been dropping but that because just 4 years ago we had an economic crash and everyones stocks were dropping and there not all going down you know look at activision and blizzard there still going strong and so is ubisoft and EA although they have both had their fair share of flop titles
The whole industry is going to crash again, just like it did in the 80's, at least I hope it does.
I'd love to see Call of Duty MW4 buried in the New Mexico desert alongside all those ET cartridges.
On April 02 2012 13:25 Manit0u wrote: DoW1 was also about capping points and what most players did was battling over them most of the time. What's different in DoW2? The only thing that comes to my mind would be early base rushes, but that's such a small part of it that it's negligible.
Tells me you haven't really played the first game.
DOW 1>>>>>>>> DOW2 by a long shot DOW2 i couldnt stand it i love base building and early rushes and all things that DOW1 had its an important dynamic of every game imagine sc2 if there were still base building but early rushes were impossible then the game would be incredibly dull because nothing happens for the first 10 minutes and everyone will just play extremely greedy and not have a care in the world boy zerg would be unbeatable lol
On April 01 2012 02:23 Disarray wrote: DoW2 was a great game, and the change in tactical direction was the best thing they could have done for that series. a 40k RTS shouldn't be about basebuilding and macroing your econ to resupply mass ammounts of troops. It should be about having limited troops and using them in a tactical way. If you want to play Starcraft with 40k models, play DoW1.
Don't tarnish the great things with DoW2 because you were too poor of a player to recognize the great things they did to that game.
DoW 1 wasnt macro heavy at all and definitely cant be compared to Starcraft. It had minimal base building and very dynamic eco and combat systems.
DoW 2 was more about capping points than it was about fighting and thats why it failed.
DoW1 was definitely macro heavy, and how the hell was DoW2 a failure ? It did very well
On April 01 2012 04:03 TehPrime wrote: It's pretty obvious that companies like Relic will get picked up by another publisher, since they have established series created from them, if THQ goes under.
no, that is not obvious.
do you know how many employees worked for Relic before and after this layoff of 39 people? no? :D
Relic does not own the IP.
Relic is crippled by these layoffs and most of the employees who created the games of their hey day are long gone.
if another publisher picks them up they may take a few key employees from Relic and incorporate them into a different studio as happened with EALA and Victory/BioWare.
unless u own a crystal ball u have no idea what the future of the now crippled Relic is.
Well. if 19% of their staff was laid off... And you say 39 people were laid off, what ever would the answer be??
19% of their staff is not laid off. that figure was from a previous THQ ONLY lay off. they are not divulging percentage figures for Relic because its more than 25% of the place. this new round of layoffs is separate from teh previously announced layoffs from 6 weeks ago and it is directly attributable to their new MMO's future revenue projections being drastically cut back. this is because its being "re focused" as a single player game and not an MMO with monthly subscription fees.
On April 02 2012 13:25 Manit0u wrote: DoW1 was also about capping points and what most players did was battling over them most of the time. What's different in DoW2? The only thing that comes to my mind would be early base rushes, but that's such a small part of it that it's negligible.
Tells me you haven't really played the first game.
DOW 1>>>>>>>> DOW2 by a long shot DOW2 i couldnt stand it i love base building and early rushes and all things that DOW1 had its an important dynamic of every game imagine sc2 if there were still base building but early rushes were impossible then the game would be incredibly dull because nothing happens for the first 10 minutes and everyone will just play extremely greedy and not have a care in the world boy zerg would be unbeatable lol
DoW1 pre WA (so whtieout any addons) was glorious and had tons of potential Then, instead of balancing and improving it, they totally and utterly destroyed and raped it with a giant cock that had "let's dumb stuff down" written all over it. It was still halfway decent but they tryed hard to make it worse with every further addon they released...
On April 01 2012 02:23 Disarray wrote: DoW2 was a great game, and the change in tactical direction was the best thing they could have done for that series. a 40k RTS shouldn't be about basebuilding and macroing your econ to resupply mass ammounts of troops. It should be about having limited troops and using them in a tactical way. If you want to play Starcraft with 40k models, play DoW1.
Don't tarnish the great things with DoW2 because you were too poor of a player to recognize the great things they did to that game.
DoW 1 wasnt macro heavy at all and definitely cant be compared to Starcraft. It had minimal base building and very dynamic eco and combat systems.
DoW 2 was more about capping points than it was about fighting and thats why it failed.
DoW1 was definitely macro heavy, and how the hell was DoW2 a failure ? It did very well
How is sending the occasional unit/builder to cap/build a SP/LP/gen macro heavy. In comparison to other RTS games DoW was definitely at the lower end of the macro spectrum. There is simply no arguing that.
DoW2 failed in that despite the big franchise and investment it was less successful than DoW1 and generally had much worse acceptance among players.
I still to this day have Homeworld 1 and 2 plus expansions installed on my computer. I consider them with a fondness like a favorite book. I replay them about once a year or so just as I reread The Hobbit every year around christmas.
I wasn't aware relic was tied up in all this mess and its sad to see. I really hope the creative minds get into jobs that take advantage of their abilities and don't end up working in some closet
On April 02 2012 15:53 0mar wrote: THQ is just the vanguard of the video game bubble bursting.
Most of the major publisher's stocks have either been flat or trending down for the last 5 years. Dumping $50 million into each game and not having them recoup costs is killing the industry. It's looking more and more likely that the indie/small-time game is going to be the major driver, not massive triple A undertakings.
everything you said is wrong its the tripple A titles that will stay and the SMALL titles will go do you know anything about the industry? why dont you take a look at all the small studios that have closed down the big guys are the ones sticking around use your head its a valuable asset there are only a few cases where a good game was made and didnt sell well enough to recoup costs please educate yourself more before you make comments that are mostly untrue. the one true thing you said is the stocks of all of these companies have been dropping but that because just 4 years ago we had an economic crash and everyones stocks were dropping and there not all going down you know look at activision and blizzard there still going strong and so is ubisoft and EA although they have both had their fair share of flop titles
Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began. Their stock is still stuck at the same level regardless. This is on top of WoW, SC2 and other such games. If Activision can't increase it's stock price, most of the industry has zero chance.
The fact is that in order to break even, every game has to break 1.5 million to 2 million sales. The latest MoH game sold ~2.5 million copies and EA canned the entire team. The new Homefront game sold ~2 million copies and THQ canned the entire team. The whole development model today is unsustainable. It takes between 50-75 million dollars to simply make a game. It can cost that much to market the game as well, so you are looking at 100 - 150 million dollar investments that aren't returning much of anything. That's why the industry is resorting to nickel and diming you with day 1 DLC, map packs and skins. And even with that, the majors aren't making much.
To put this in perspective where the industry is at, Zynga, the makers of shitty Facebook games like Farmville, is valued higher than EA. The reason? Bigger userbase and low development costs. This is the model for the future. Why do you think there's such a push to corner the tablet/smartphone market? It's much easier to sell a bunch of copies of a shitty game that costs 50,000. The next console generation is going to destroy the major publishers. MS and Sony still haven't made a profit on their hardware, preferring to sell licensing rites to shore up selling the consoles at a loss. Publishers loathe doing this though because it essentially cuts their market in half. ME was a flagship franchise of the Microsoft and now it's available on both PS3 and 360 because it would have been impossible for EA to recoup development costs on just the 360.
On April 06 2012 02:32 0mar wrote: Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began.
this is what happens when we get junk science analysis ..... dude.. define "since the recession began"?
"In December 2008, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) declared that the United States had been in recession since December 2007"
i say this is about right....
in June 2008 ATVI offered a TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT ... effectively doubling the value of the stock i held. i now held twice as many shared in ATVI after this offer. The actual split occurred on September 5th , 2008 so the ATVI execs were very responsible with this announcement giving every one months of advanced warning.
therefore, with the 2 for one stock split in mind... ATVI has basically gone up 100% since the recession began as well.. tehre are shares you can buy that offer a dividend...
ATVI is just absolutely fucking amazing "since the recession began"
In November 2007 the stock was at ~$9.75 then teh 2 for 1 stock split occurred.
today ATVI is at ...$12.66 making your initial $9.50 investment now worth $25.12
ATVI stock holders who've held on since "the start of the recession" are jumping for fucking joy.
if the thread continues to get derailed with this pseudo stock analysis crap.. we should make another thread out of it.
On April 02 2012 13:25 Manit0u wrote: DoW1 was also about capping points and what most players did was battling over them most of the time. What's different in DoW2? The only thing that comes to my mind would be early base rushes, but that's such a small part of it that it's negligible.
Tells me you haven't really played the first game.
Actually, I did play both of them quite extensively for some time. DoW1 seems really shallow and boring to me after DoW2.
I agree that DoW2 was pretty much shit in the beginning, with all the insane bugs and imbalances. Relic managed to patch it up quite nicely though, bringing better balance and getting rid of most bugs (what's left now is a couple of minor graphical glitches for the most part).
On April 02 2012 13:25 Manit0u wrote: DoW1 was also about capping points and what most players did was battling over them most of the time. What's different in DoW2? The only thing that comes to my mind would be early base rushes, but that's such a small part of it that it's negligible.
Tells me you haven't really played the first game.
Actually, I did play both of them quite extensively for some time. DoW1 seems really shallow and boring to me after DoW2.
I agree that DoW2 was pretty much shit in the beginning, with all the insane bugs and imbalances. Relic managed to patch it up quite nicely though, bringing better balance and getting rid of most bugs (what's left now is a couple of minor graphical glitches for the most part).
That's your opinion and I respect that. Rushing was pretty much non-existant later on since you could tech so quickly. The exception of course being eldar turret rushes/raptor harass play and the like. Removing the tech > eco > rush > tech balance was one of the bigger mistakes Relic JOHNNY EBBERT committed in my opinion. When I refer to DoWs gameplay I always mean the vanilla version since in the later expansions the game was an incoherent clusterfuck.
I could deal with the bugs and imbalance (I played Ravener Tyranids since beta ). What really killed it for me was the gameplay which consisted of way too much capping and way too little fighting for my tastes (which in part might have been caused by bad maps with too many points to cap). Compared to that fighting for points in DoW was slower paced and the outcome bore more impact
On April 06 2012 02:32 0mar wrote: Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began.
this is what happens when we get junk science analysis ..... dude.. define "since the recession began"?
"In December 2008, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) declared that the United States had been in recession since December 2007"
i say this is about right....
in June 2008 ATVI offered a TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT ... effectively doubling the value of the stock i held. i now held twice as many shared in ATVI after this offer.
therefore, with the 2 for one stock split in mind... ATVI has basically gone up 100% since the recession began as well.. tehre are shares you can buy that offer a dividend...
ATVI is just absolutely fucking amazing "since the recession began"
In November 2007 the stock was at ~$9.75 then teh 2 for 1 stock split occurred.
today ATVI is at ...$12.66 making your initial $9.50 investment now worth $25.12
ATVI stock holders who've held on since "the start of the recession" are jumping for fucking joy.
if the thread continues to get derailed with this pseudo stock analysis crap.. we should make another thread out of it.
On April 06 2012 02:32 0mar wrote: Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began.
this is what happens when we get junk science analysis ..... dude.. define "since the recession began"?
"In December 2008, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) declared that the United States had been in recession since December 2007"
i say this is about right....
in June 2008 ATVI offered a TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT ... effectively doubling the value of the stock i held. i now held twice as many shared in ATVI after this offer.
therefore, with the 2 for one stock split in mind... ATVI has basically gone up 100% since the recession began as well.. tehre are shares you can buy that offer a dividend...
ATVI is just absolutely fucking amazing "since the recession began"
In November 2007 the stock was at ~$9.75 then teh 2 for 1 stock split occurred.
today ATVI is at ...$12.66 making your initial $9.50 investment now worth $25.12
ATVI stock holders who've held on since "the start of the recession" are jumping for fucking joy.
if the thread continues to get derailed with this pseudo stock analysis crap.. we should make another thread out of it.
None of the major publishers split their stock.
This excerpt taken from the ATVI 10-Q filed Nov 10, 2008.
In July 2008, the Board of Directors approved a two-for-one split of our outstanding common shares effected in the form of a stock dividend
umm yes they did, and you could have just googled instead of denial posting.
while it is sad that THQ is plummeting it is still only one company, it may be part if a larger trend, and it probably is. I don't believe in your apocalypse scenario where triple A studios start dropping like flies. They will simply adapt.
On April 06 2012 04:35 0mar wrote: None of the major publishers split their stock.
September 5th , 2008 a stock split occurred for ATVI. it was announced in June , 2008
The " trust currency" THQ holds is in keeping its Licensees happy. 1 big one, Adidas is suing them. More importantly, there appears to be a breach of trust because THQ is unable to show ADIDAS any working software for all the money ADIDAS has given them so far.
1 more major licensee starts to grow unhappy with THQ and this house of cards will fall to the ground.
If Vince or Dana sense that THQ no longer has the money to continue to develop a AAA style title for their franchises and its over.
At this point THQ is hanging by a thread.
Just because THQ is going down does not mean EA, ATVI, or any other big name publisher is in trouble.
THQ is sorely mismanaged and that is the primary reason for its downfall.
The way it is looking now.. it appears THQ used the money Adidas gave them to just stay a float a little while longer. THQ has not developed a DAMN THING for Adidas while taking their money. Once this becomes full reality it will be the killing blow for THQ.
On the other hand, this could also prove beneficial. If Adidas would have some brains they could just tell THQ that they're going to keep them afloat under the condition that THQ is going to drop all of their projects not related to Adidas (or start one if they haven't). If it's going to be a success then they can resume other things and stay afloat, if it goes bad they go bye bye.
A form of ultimatum, but they can well enforce it if they're holding them by the financial balls.
won't work. if THQ halts work on their UFC and WWE franchises then Dana and Vince end their relationship and THQ is done. THQ has all kinds of WWE titles on a plethora of platforms producing income they are relying on. with all the negative stuff going on around THQ... WWE and UFC management is watching them very carefully.
On April 06 2012 02:32 0mar wrote: Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began.
this is what happens when we get junk science analysis ..... dude.. define "since the recession began"?
"In December 2008, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) declared that the United States had been in recession since December 2007"
i say this is about right....
in June 2008 ATVI offered a TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT ... effectively doubling the value of the stock i held. i now held twice as many shared in ATVI after this offer. The actual split occurred on September 5th , 2008 so the ATVI execs were very responsible with this announcement giving every one months of advanced warning.
therefore, with the 2 for one stock split in mind... ATVI has basically gone up 100% since the recession began as well.. tehre are shares you can buy that offer a dividend...
ATVI is just absolutely fucking amazing "since the recession began"
In November 2007 the stock was at ~$9.75 then teh 2 for 1 stock split occurred.
today ATVI is at ...$12.66 making your initial $9.50 investment now worth $25.12
ATVI stock holders who've held on since "the start of the recession" are jumping for fucking joy.
if the thread continues to get derailed with this pseudo stock analysis crap.. we should make another thread out of it.
That's not how stock splits work.
A share at $10 is split 2:1 resulting in two shares at $5 each. Still $10 total.
A share at $10 is split 2:1 resulting in two shares at $5 each. Still $10 total.
wrong. the stock price fell substantitally but not by 50%
i owned the stock at the time and watched it happen.
on Sept 5 it was $16,87. by Oct. 10 it was $11.56. a sizeable decrease ... but still a profit situation for those holding stock ATVI can support such a split because of their monstrous cash reserves.
i cashed out when it was around $11.75 later in 2009.
On April 06 2012 02:32 0mar wrote: Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began.
this is what happens when we get junk science analysis ..... dude.. define "since the recession began"?
"In December 2008, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) declared that the United States had been in recession since December 2007"
i say this is about right....
in June 2008 ATVI offered a TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT ... effectively doubling the value of the stock i held. i now held twice as many shared in ATVI after this offer. The actual split occurred on September 5th , 2008 so the ATVI execs were very responsible with this announcement giving every one months of advanced warning.
therefore, with the 2 for one stock split in mind... ATVI has basically gone up 100% since the recession began as well.. tehre are shares you can buy that offer a dividend...
ATVI is just absolutely fucking amazing "since the recession began"
In November 2007 the stock was at ~$9.75 then teh 2 for 1 stock split occurred.
today ATVI is at ...$12.66 making your initial $9.50 investment now worth $25.12
ATVI stock holders who've held on since "the start of the recession" are jumping for fucking joy.
if the thread continues to get derailed with this pseudo stock analysis crap.. we should make another thread out of it.
That's not how stock splits work.
A share at $10 is split 2:1 resulting in two shares at $5 each. Still $10 total.
If you buy in at $9.50, the stock splits and is then worth $12.66 post split yeah you do have $25.12. Don't just try to jump all over people without actually reading the full context of what was said, it's a horrible way to go through life.
I really hope THQ can pull through, the problem I see with them is they always seem to put out subpar products, never anything AAA just A. Good stuff that's pretty unoriginal with aging tech, so it never sells well. They do seem like one of the better publishers overall though.
I'm not a big Relic fan though, they nickle and dime their fans pretty bad and they were the ones that ruined the RTS genre before Starcraft 2 came out. Command and Conquer went to the no base style BECAUSE of the success Relic had, not because EA is super evil. The big problem right now for RTS games is that SC2 set the bar so high that nobody can come close to it. You can't make a base building game with the polish and balance Blizzard has, let alone with the name recognition to get copies sold. The RTS games coming out aside from SC2 are either terrible, or don't have base building which as SC2 has proven is a really important part of the gameplay.
A share at $10 is split 2:1 resulting in two shares at $5 each. Still $10 total.
wrong. the stock price fell substantitally but not by 50%
i owned the stock at the time and watched it happen.
on Sept 5 it was $16,87. by Oct. 10 it was $11.56. a sizeable decrease ... but still a profit situation for those holding stock ATVI can support such a split because of their monstrous cash reserves.
i cashed out when it was around $11.75 later in 2009.
Stock splits do not affect a company's cash in any way shape or form. It is just a change in the share price and the number of shares outstanding.
CnC went to no base because they wanted to try new things because they can't make a serious RTS. They just made crappy recycles and then they tried to cash in on social games and then they went back to just doing crappy recycles.
Relic games have been pretty good, CoH is still probably the 2nd most entertaining RTS to watch after BW atleast for me.
On April 06 2012 02:32 0mar wrote: Dude, you can't even type intelligently, nevermind make a coherent argument. Activision released 3 of the biggest selling games since the recession began.
this is what happens when we get junk science analysis ..... dude.. define "since the recession began"?
"In December 2008, the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) declared that the United States had been in recession since December 2007"
i say this is about right....
in June 2008 ATVI offered a TWO FOR ONE STOCK SPLIT ... effectively doubling the value of the stock i held. i now held twice as many shared in ATVI after this offer. The actual split occurred on September 5th , 2008 so the ATVI execs were very responsible with this announcement giving every one months of advanced warning.
therefore, with the 2 for one stock split in mind... ATVI has basically gone up 100% since the recession began as well.. tehre are shares you can buy that offer a dividend...
ATVI is just absolutely fucking amazing "since the recession began"
In November 2007 the stock was at ~$9.75 then teh 2 for 1 stock split occurred.
today ATVI is at ...$12.66 making your initial $9.50 investment now worth $25.12
ATVI stock holders who've held on since "the start of the recession" are jumping for fucking joy.
if the thread continues to get derailed with this pseudo stock analysis crap.. we should make another thread out of it.
That's not how stock splits work.
A share at $10 is split 2:1 resulting in two shares at $5 each. Still $10 total.
If you buy in at $9.50, the stock splits and is then worth $12.66 post split yeah you do have $25.12. Don't just try to jump all over people without actually reading the full context of what was said, it's a horrible way to go through life.
Sorry, just trying to point out a factual error. If you look up the historical price at a typical site like morningstar.com they go through the trouble of calculating splits for you. So, if it says that in Sept. '07 it was $9.50 and now it is $12.66 you can easily calculate the price change without having to look up if there were splits or not. $12.66 - $9.50 = $3.16 gain per share X the number of shares you currently have.
A share at $10 is split 2:1 resulting in two shares at $5 each. Still $10 total.
wrong. the stock price fell substantitally but not by 50%
i owned the stock at the time and watched it happen.
on Sept 5 it was $16,87. by Oct. 10 it was $11.56. a sizeable decrease ... but still a profit situation for those holding stock ATVI can support such a split because of their monstrous cash reserves.
i cashed out when it was around $11.75 later in 2009.
Looking at google finance and throwing out numbers is not going to make you look smart. As the other said stock split does not work like you think it does, market cap stays the same, no value added and none lost. You better look at your portfolio again because the return you think you have is wrong.
Sites like Google finance will display the split retroactively which means that the $16.87 on Sept 5 is the price after the split.
it was Nov. 2007 @ $9.75 i owned common shares and was later paid a "one time" dividend on Sept. 5 2008 of more "outstanding common shares".
let's keep the math really simple. and assume i had 10 shares.
so therefore i spent $97.50.
on Sept. 5th i now had 20 shares because i was "paid a divided" of 10 outstanding common shares.
i sold these 20 shares in early August 2009 @ $12.00 per share.
so i went from $97.50 to $240,00
now i put this into a retirement savings plan to avoid the capital gains tax.
again.. the stock fell in early Sept. 2008 because of the stock split. but ONLY OUTSTANDING COMMON SHARES were part of this split. as a result, the stock price DID NOT fall by EXACTLY 50% it fell by less than 50%. had every single form of share in ATVI been "split" then .. yes.. a 50% fall would've occurred. but that is not what happened... and this is why the value of a share fell by less than 50%.
at that point in 2007/2008/2009 ATVI did not offer any kind of dividend to its stock holders. so this was the "big guys" way of rewarding holders of "common shares". it was a way to pay them a dividend.
i now believe ATVI does offer some kind of cash dividend. so when people are clamouring about how the value of the shares themselves are "not going up no matter how many billion dollar titles they sell" .. they need to factor in the cash dividend share holders now receive before claiming the sky is falling on ATVI.
On April 06 2012 13:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: it was Nov. 2007 @ $9.75 i owned common shares and was later paid a "one time" dividend on Sept. 5 2008 of more "outstanding common shares".
let's keep the math really simple. and assume i had 10 shares.
so therefore i spent $97.50.
on Sept. 5th i now had 20 shares because i was "paid a divided" of 10 outstanding common shares.
i sold these 20 shares in early August 2009 @ $12.00 per share.
so i went from $97.50 to $240,00
now i put this into a retirement savings plan to avoid the capital gains tax.
again.. the stock fell in early Sept. 2008 because of the stock split. but ONLY OUTSTANDING COMMON SHARES were part of this split. as a result, the stock price DID NOT fall by EXACTLY 50% it fell by less than 50%. had every single form of share in ATVI been "split" then .. yes.. a 50% fall would've occurred. but that is not what happened.
at that point in 2007/2008/2009 ATVI did not offer any kind of dividend to its stock holders. so this was the "big guys" way of rewarding holders of "common shares". it was a way to pay them a dividend.
In November of '07 the lowest closing price for Activision stock was $18.81. Your $9.75 is an number that has already been adjusted for splits.
From Yahoo finance historical data unadjusted numbers:
Closing price on Friday 9/5/2008 = $33.74 Opening price on Monday 9/8/2008 = $16.49
Also different type of stocks are listed seperatly and at different prices. So trying to link the fall in value of the common stock with the split like you're doing is nonsense.
THQ is partnering with some giant money firm because they have run out of cash.
THQ announced it hired Centerview Parnters to "review strategic alternatives". THQ won't reveal what its future revenue projections are took no questions during the earnings call. THQ halted trading of the stock during their "investors call". But, trading resumes today.
THQ has now only $36M of cash, and $21M in debt. They owe $100M in another debt that must be paid in August 2014. They hired Centreview because they need money.
The stock is falling like a rock.
it looks like even giant government subsidies from Quebec won't save this ship. the CEO has been shuffling the deck chairs for over a year now and the few titles they've made are flat out not making enough profit.
Their "Market Capitalization" must go up by 30% within 30 days otherwise THQ becomes a penny stock and is removed from the NASDAQ exchange.
This is with no new titles coming out. No new anything.
i tried to show homeworld to a friend a while ago and had completely forgotten all the controls was not a good impression with me fumbling around trying to remember them all
games were so much better back in the day, everything was so freakin complicated and rewarding
On November 07 2012 06:25 Godwrath wrote: I would rate Homeworld as good as BW any day of the week, if not better in my eyes. FFS i want a sequel so bad.
I'm sure you've seen cataclysm and homeworld 2 (Personally i found the cataclysm storyline much better then 2). But i have to agree the homeworld franchise was an incredible one. But getting used to controlling things in a 3 dimensional space can be tricky even though the controls were pretty friendly.
I liked the HW2 mechanics and gameplay better than HW1, it was definitely an improvement, I just had a massive issue with the Prophecy bullshit that they cooked up for a storyline. It was grand and all, but it lacked the narrative depth.
I enjoyed a lot the first DoW saga, i even bought all the expansions (3)...can't really speak about vanilla or Winter assault but the last 2 expansions received less than 2 patches each, and what patches! Dark crusade was basically a freewin game for 2-3 races, and the tech prices were massively underpriced (imagine lair and hive tech costing 25/25 with painfully easy requirements in WoL). And it was the expansion famous for cleaning the mess of Winter Assault, really (balance wise)
Soulstorm was better balanced, due to not being made directly by Relic (it received a lot of flak however due to how badly the new flyers were implemented, a marketing decision) but it however shipped with a game-breaking bug: The sisterhood player could build a structure and abort it for a bigger refund than the initial cost(!) therefore achieving infinite money. Patch 1.01 came in, and fixed that, however it brought in a couple of lesser bugs and a bug that would reset the Eldar player's resource bank each time he used an ability of a type of units >.< Then came Patch 1.02, fixing that (some months after launch) but breaking irreversibly the automated matchmaking. No patches followed 1.02. Tons of wasted potential, sigh.
Then came DoW2, which is pretty much universally hated by DoW1 fans due to a complete pace shift and also a genre shift (RTS->RTT).
Besides, Relic has an history of making bullshit expansions (yea 1 race per expansion in dow2, when you know at least 2 WILL be added,and are already planned)
I loved Homeworld 1 and 2,but i guess those were other times, and a different Relic. (btw, yea HW2 is much better gameplay wise, expect in its usage of fighters and corvettes, which dumbed down the game a lot.... HW1 multiplayer was however a bugged repair corvette/frigate spamfest)
but but i preorderd COH2
I believe if shit was about to hit the fan, another big company/publisher would pick up CoH2, it's just too big of a title to be left in the dust... the development process could suffer a lot tho.
On November 07 2012 06:25 Godwrath wrote: I would rate Homeworld as good as BW any day of the week, if not better in my eyes. FFS i want a sequel so bad.
I'm sure you've seen cataclysm and homeworld 2 (Personally i found the cataclysm storyline much better then 2). But i have to agree the homeworld franchise was an incredible one. But getting used to controlling things in a 3 dimensional space can be tricky even though the controls were pretty friendly.
Yes, i am speaking about the franchise mostly. It's one of the few games that when i watch some of the cutscene "videos" give me true nerd chills. The music... oh god DAT music (turanic raiders :ddd), at that time, i hadn't heard something that good since TA hehe. Yes BW music was good, but didn't give me that feeling ;P
Getting used was tricky i totally agree, but the controls were fine, complex, but they weren't clunky (which happens nowadays in an absurd amount of titles).
@Skirjman
Yes, it's an opinion of course, noone should ever discuss that. And as a DoW 1 and DoW 2 player (which i played competitively for quite time), their patch policy was awful to say the least. But the game feeling was quite good (DoW 1, DoW 2 is okeesh imho). I totally agree with you on that one... but my inner nerd child just remembers Homeworld and forgives everything haha.
I enjoyed the DoW titles (quite) and CoH (a lot !) but these didn't stay very long in my little sanctuary of best games ever. Homeworld is still right in there...
I wonder where the original relic's developers ended...
On November 07 2012 06:25 Godwrath wrote: I would rate Homeworld as good as BW any day of the week, if not better in my eyes. FFS i want a sequel so bad.
I still have Homeworld 2 installed on my computer. I've been praying for a third for years and years and years...and years...
I know this might have been covered but why does it keep falling? Why won't it simply stabilize? I realize there has been som questionable business strategies in the past but, do they run that deep? And didnt they JUST relase a game like a month or two ago?
Neither title is as good as Broodwar, but CoH/DoW are 100000x better than that shitheap WoL.
I enjoy playing both games just to relax and have fun, Warhammer is easily my favorite universe anyway and the games are kinda mindless fun which i enjoy. I like CoH since well i enjoy WW2 games and its pretty enjoyable in its own rights(since you cant just faceroll through the game due to cover mechanics and all that)
I do hope they stay afloat though, I really wanna play a CoH game based on the eastern front -_-.
On November 08 2012 07:02 unkkz wrote: I know this might have been covered but why does it keep falling? Why won't it simply stabilize? I realize there has been som questionable business strategies in the past but, do they run that deep? And didnt they JUST relase a game like a month or two ago?
the oversimplified answer is this
they are not making money.
A more complex response is:
in an ``investors call`` that corporations with stock sold on NASDAQ must perform THQ provided no information.
Normally, EA and ATVI will provide an estimate of future earnings along with a `question and answer`` session with press members or whoever is attending.
THQI provided none of this. No estimates of future earnings. No ``Q&A`` session. And they HALTED TRADED on their stock immediately after ending their ``Investors call``.
During this session they admitted they have to pay off a $100 million bond in August of 2014. Looking at their upcoming products I see no way for THQI to raise $100 million.
Also, they hired a ``Venture Capital`` firm to help them raise money.
All these aer bad bad signs. Also, THQI might have to `dilute their common shares`` in return for money that they raise during this time of crisis. This makse the current common shares less valuable. Its like a country printing money without anything to back it up. If Canada out of no where tripled the amount of money in circulation then the current money held by every day people would be worth less.
That is a longer version. There is an even longer version than that.
On November 08 2012 07:08 arb wrote: I like CoH since well i enjoy WW2 games and its pretty enjoyable in its own rights(since you cant just faceroll through the game due to cover mechanics and all that)
HuK is the greatest CoH player on planet earth. just thought i`d get that biased piece of information out there.
Now available at Toys R Us, the UDraw Tablet and UDraw Studio for $9.99 ROFLMAO.
On November 07 2012 06:25 Godwrath wrote: I would rate Homeworld as good as BW any day of the week, if not better in my eyes. FFS i want a sequel so bad.
I still have Homeworld 2 installed on my computer. I've been praying for a third for years and years and years...and years...
Imagine a homeworld with those new graphic engine with volumetric clouding, light effects,etc That would be so amazing.
The fist one was so poetic, and you felt so fucking lonely, I loved it.
Looking back THQ had some very nice franchise alongside HW, red faction, CoH, DoW, even impossible creature looked really fun.
On November 08 2012 07:02 unkkz wrote: I know this might have been covered but why does it keep falling? Why won't it simply stabilize? I realize there has been som questionable business strategies in the past but, do they run that deep? And didnt they JUST relase a game like a month or two ago?
the oversimplified answer is this
they are not making money.
A more complex response is:
in an ``investors call`` that corporations with stock sold on NASDAQ must perform THQ provided no information.
Normally, EA and ATVI will provide an estimate of future earnings along with a `question and answer`` session with press members or whoever is attending.
THQI provided none of this. No estimates of future earnings. No ``Q&A`` session. And they HALTED TRADED on their stock immediately after ending their ``Investors call``.
During this session they admitted they have to pay off a $100 million bond in August of 2014. Looking at their upcoming products I see no way for THQI to raise $100 million.
Also, they hired a ``Venture Capital`` firm to help them raise money.
All these aer bad bad signs. Also, THQI might have to `dilute their common shares`` in return for money that they raise during this time of crisis. This makse the current common shares less valuable. Its like a country printing money without anything to back it up. If Canada out of no where tripled the amount of money in circulation then the current money held by every day people would be worth less.
That is a longer version. There is an even longer version than that.
On November 08 2012 07:08 arb wrote: I like CoH since well i enjoy WW2 games and its pretty enjoyable in its own rights(since you cant just faceroll through the game due to cover mechanics and all that)
HuK is the greatest CoH player on planet earth. just thought i`d get that biased piece of information out there.
Now available at Toys R Us, the UDraw Tablet and UDraw Studio for $9.99 ROFLMAO.
On November 08 2012 07:15 Diavlo wrote: Looking back THQ had some very nice franchise alongside HW, red faction, CoH, DoW, even impossible creature looked really fun.
the AKI series of wrestling games were mint.... its a tragedy they switched to Yuke`s and got engulfed in all that Mo-Cap garbage. Hand drawn is the way to go. But, this allows the studio to have too much artistic expression i guess.
The AKI games sold world wide. The Yuke`s WWE series only sells to NA and parts of Europe and maybe a bit of Australia.
Fire Pro Wrestling Returns, WWF No Mercy, and WCW v. nWo World Tour are the best rasslin games every made. i have fond memories of that old web site rasslinvideogames.com
On November 09 2012 10:00 Jockmcplop wrote: WWF No Mercy is one of the most fun multiplayer games of all time.
there was a guy in my neighbourhood who used Hollywood Hogan in "WCW v. nWo World Tour".. and no one could escape that knockout close line. we spent hours and days and weeks and months trying to figure out how to take down "Hollywood" it was fucking epic.
I thought this was an interesting articles about troubles at the THQ studio that was making Home Front. They had developed the Desert Combat mod for Battlefield 1942. link
THQ didn't file on the deadline.. and here is why...
" In connection with the Company’s Credit Agreement with Wells Fargo Capital Finance, LLC (“Wells Fargo”), which was amended pursuant to Amendment Number One dated July 23, 2012 (collectively, as so amended, the “Credit Facility”), on November 7, 2012, the Company was informed by Wells Fargo that loan availability on the Credit Facility was less than 12.5% of the maximum revolver amount on one or more occasions as of and after the fiscal quarter ended September 30, 2012, and accordingly, one or more events of default have occurred under the terms of the Credit Facility, including the failure to comply with financial covenants for the fiscal quarter ended September 30, 2012. The Company is currently in discussions with Wells Fargo regarding the asserted defaults and believes that it will reach an agreement with Wells Fargo with respect to such defaults. Wells Fargo has continued to fund requests from the Company after September 30, 2012 while Wells Fargo and the Company attempt to reach an agreement. There can be no assurance, however, that the Company will achieve an agreement with Wells Fargo. "
I'd love to see THQ on an episode of "Operation Repo".
On November 09 2012 10:00 Jockmcplop wrote: WWF No Mercy is one of the most fun multiplayer games of all time.
there was a guy in my neighbourhood who used Hollywood Hogan in "WCW v. nWo World Tour".. and no one could escape that knockout close line. we spent hours and days and weeks and months trying to figure out how to take down "Hollywood" it was fucking epic.
AKI was fucking awesome.
I preferred WCW/NWO Revenge. Very good memories with that game and probably my fav THQ game to date haha.
On November 09 2012 10:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Fire Pro Wrestling Returns, WWF No Mercy, and WCW v. nWo World Tour are the best rasslin games every made. i have fond memories of that old web site rasslinvideogames.com
On December 20 2012 05:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: THQ filed for bankruptcy today. and with macro trends like the following in play who knows what will be left.
it'll be interesting to see if CoH2 gets released.. and if it does , what kind of post sales support is provided.
Someone is just going to buy up everything and continue to develop/release titles that are in progress. Near-complete games like CoH2 will definitely be released, they are the parts of the company with value that someone will be paying for. Other titles that are early in development/unannounced might suffer, but things like CoH2 will definitely be released by whoever buys THQ's assets.
Seems all the more hilarious that I got a free copy of Metro for liking a facebook page haha. Advertising the brands for the liquidatation I guess - I wonder who's gonna buy up the IP?
On December 20 2012 05:32 Trowa127 wrote: Seems all the more hilarious that I got a free copy of Metro for liking a facebook page haha. Advertising the brands for the liquidatation I guess - I wonder who's gonna buy up the IP?
On December 20 2012 05:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: THQ filed for bankruptcy today. and with macro trends like the following in play who knows what will be left.
On December 20 2012 05:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: THQ filed for bankruptcy today. and with macro trends like the following in play who knows what will be left.
On December 20 2012 05:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote: THQ filed for bankruptcy today. and with macro trends like the following in play who knows what will be left.
I am disappointed to read about this because it will hurt competition in the video game indstry if THQ's assets are bought by another big video game company.
Hopefully they can find the finances they need while remaining independent.
they got a small portion of the loan they requested but their dream world proposal is being questioned.. and with good reason.. THQ has been over promising with overly optimistic sales projects for years.
"Walrath said she wants more details and possibly testimony to support the game-maker’s aggressive sale timeframe."
if you thought the bullshit coming out of THQ senior managements' mouths was bad so far...
the PR Offensive they are about to go will be like a hundred 3 and 3 marines with stim pack & combat shields
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
Volition and Relic are basically licences to print money. Hell if a publisher picked up the pair of them and said "make Homeworld 3/Freespace 3" they'd be richer than the Nazis.
The rasslin games will probably die with THQ which is a shame. I had a hell of a lot of fun on those games
On December 21 2012 11:24 Evangelist wrote: Volition and Relic are basically licences to print money. Hell if a publisher picked up the pair of them and said "make Homeworld 3/Freespace 3" they'd be richer than the Nazis. The rasslin games will probably die with THQ which is a shame. I had a hell of a lot of fun on those games
they are up for grabs. Get a friend to loan you $65 million and you're rolling!
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
On December 20 2012 12:05 EngrishTeacher wrote: God dammit, Metro 2033 was the best adventure linear FPS I've played in terms of immersion and graphics.
Was so looking forward to Metro 2034
It still has a march release date and you can even pre order to help them out.
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
Very arguable.
True. I find CoH and DoW series much more entertaining and complex than SC2.
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
Many people believe CoH is the superior RTS. I haven't played CoH extensively enough in comparison to SC not to make a biased opinion, however, on pure quality and features, I'd say CoH is definitely the better game.
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
Very arguable.
True. I find CoH and DoW series much more entertaining and complex than SC2.
I wouldn't say more complex , but I definitely enjoy DOW 1v1 more than sc2 1v1 , personal opinion of course , sc2 team games are awesome :D
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
Very arguable.
True. I find CoH and DoW series much more entertaining and complex than SC2.
I wouldn't say more complex , but I definitely enjoy DOW 1v1 more than sc2 1v1 , personal opinion of course , sc2 team games are awesome :D
Don't know about complexity, don't know if you can really compare the two on an even basis and say things such as "X is better than Y", but i know one thing for sure : i personally found DOW ( up to the dark crusade expansion ) to be more fun and enjoyable than SC2 in 1v1 so far. Macro is different in the sense that you don't produce individual units but squads, and the way your army is capped is also different ( infantry - vehicles as opposed to sc2's unifined /200 supply count ), but you constantly have to reinforce squads that have lost some of their members. Micro is also different because of that squad system, and it often relies on abilities more than pure movement control ( ex : commissar executing a soldier to boost morale ) . But what DOW has is some extra tactical depth, which can be found in either abilities ( grenades and other things, as opposed to sc2's stim " whenever you want to engage " ) or in choices you make. ( like giving a heavy bolter / rocket launcher / plasma / firethrower to a squad member : adding 4 firethrowers will drastically increase the squad's overall eifficiency against infantry up close, especially those with low morale whereas a squad equipped with rocket / heavy bolter will be more eifficient at a distance, and weaker up close, especially because setting up those weapons takes a few seconds to set up )
at first I thought the thread title read "TLO suffering terrible *insert bad health condition here*" and was extremely upset.. then I continued reading...
coh and dow have more features, but much less depth.
played both of them alot, especially coh. coh is too much luck based, and events based on rng just rolls on effecting everything else on comulative level. things just rolls up. "oh my volks just made a 1 in a 100 voley, and he lost his first rifle squad... well guess I win the game" "oh my mg was in reloading animation when I need it retreat... well guess he gets my mg and I lose the game." it took them years to patch the game and trim out the bugs into expectable levels (like screwing up your game every one in 3-4 games level) then they made the worst expension to date ever, tales of valor, aand game was back to its beta stage, 4 years before.
they are just more fancy not better or deeper, and too much candy make your tommie ache after a while. and dow2 is jsut a mess, awful responsiveness from units in a propoesly micro based game.
hope they survive though, coh2 alpha is not that bad it will be at least as good as coh, and its always nice to play something else once in a while.
On December 20 2012 11:40 Larkin wrote: Don't know why people are hating on Company of Heroes, they're some of the best RTS games ever. At least equal to if not better than SC2.
Equal or better? What pot are you smoking? Sure the game is good, but its complexity aren't anywhere near Starcraft 2.
Very arguable.
True. I find CoH and DoW series much more entertaining and complex than SC2.
I wouldn't say more complex , but I definitely enjoy DOW 1v1 more than sc2 1v1 , personal opinion of course , sc2 team games are awesome :D
Don't know about complexity, don't know if you can really compare the two on an even basis and say things such as "X is better than Y", but i know one thing for sure : i personally found DOW ( up to the dark crusade expansion ) to be more fun and enjoyable than SC2 in 1v1 so far. Macro is different in the sense that you don't produce individual units but squads, and the way your army is capped is also different ( infantry - vehicles as opposed to sc2's unifined /200 supply count ), but you constantly have to reinforce squads that have lost some of their members. Micro is also different because of that squad system, and it often relies on abilities more than pure movement control ( ex : commissar executing a soldier to boost morale ) . But what DOW has is some extra tactical depth, which can be found in either abilities ( grenades and other things, as opposed to sc2's stim " whenever you want to engage " ) or in choices you make. ( like giving a heavy bolter / rocket launcher / plasma / firethrower to a squad member : adding 4 firethrowers will drastically increase the squad's overall eifficiency against infantry up close, especially those with low morale whereas a squad equipped with rocket / heavy bolter will be more eifficient at a distance, and weaker up close, especially because setting up those weapons takes a few seconds to set up )
I agree with your first point that the two games are different enough for one to not be better than the other but your examples of DoW having more tactical depth don't show that. In DoW you control a far smaller number of units (they're called "squads" but functionally they're single units) that can be differentiated after being made. In SC2 you control large granular armies. The analogue of weapons in DoW would be composition in SC2, only with more options and a finer degree of player control in the latter. So instead of turning an existing unit into something else you're adding units that can each be individually controlled for whatever role needs be filled. At best it's just a more accessible way to accomplish the same sort of thing. As for Stimpack, it adds more tactical depth than you think because of its HP cost. Battles are often lost through over-stimming.
More modern RTS games like DoW and the Total Wars are better at creating the illusion of fighting large battles, but when reduced down to abstract parts they're much smaller in scale than Starcraft.
Creditors Blast Bankrupt Game Maker THQ's Sale Plan
Law360, Wilmington (January 02, 2013, 10:24 PM ET) -- Creditors of video game producer THQ Inc. asked a Delaware bankruptcy judge Wednesday to reject its bid procedures, arguing that the proposed terms for the Chapter 11 auction were crafted not to maximize value but to ensure a sale to stalking-horse bidder Clearlake Capital Group LP.
California-based THQ entered court protection Dec. 19 with a prepackaged plan envisioning a $60 million sale to private equity firm Clearlake, but an ad hoc committee of the company's noteholders claims the terms of the proposed Section 363 sale will serve to chill competitive bidding rather than promote it.
Bid procedures should promote a robust auction, the committee said, but those proposed by the debtor — including an “unjustifiably accelerated sale timeline” calling for a Jan. 9 auction, Jan. 10 sale hearing and a closing by Jan. 15 — would have the opposite effect and “appear to have been designed specifically to thwart any potential bidders from stepping forward to compete with Clearlake’s bid.”
Representing creditors holding 41 percent of the $100 million in senior notes that make up the lion's share of THQ's debt, the committee holds that a title-by-title sale of the company's video game lines would provide a greater return to investors.
The committee blasted a sale provision that would allow THQ to reject any offer that does not include substantially all of the company's assets, “notwithstanding that there is reason to believe that more value may be generated by a sale of the debtors’ assets on a 'piecemeal' basis.”
At a first-day hearing, THQ counsel Jeffrey C. Krause said the hurried sales process was made necessary by the terms of its debtor-in-possession financing package as well as the fact that the company would run out of cash by Jan. 15 even with the added financing.
The time line, while not ideal, offered the only alternative to a complete shutdown and breakup of the company, Krause said, and it would be “better to sell at these terms than be forced to liquidate.”
U.S. Trustee Roberta A. DeAngelis also took issue with the proposed bid procedures, filing a separate objection Wednesday that voiced additional concerns regarding the auction conditions.
Besides echoing the committee's concerns about the expedited schedule, the trustee said the provision requiring the first bid to top Clearlake's offer by at least $2.75 million would further restrict competition and should be removed.
“Such a sizeable initial overbid may chill bidding by discouraging potential bidders from participating in the proposed auction,” the trustee said.
The procedures also violate the local rule requiring that auctions be conducted openly with all creditors permitted to attend, the trustee said, claiming they seek to limit attendance to representatives of the qualified bidders, debtors, DIP lenders and any statutorily appointed committees.
“There does not appear to be justification for waiver of this requirement in this case,” the trustee said.
A hearing on the bid procedures and the final DIP order will be held Friday before U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Mary F. Walrath.
THQ, which designs and publishes video games for home consoles, computers and other platforms, sought court protection along with its four U.S. subsidiaries Dec. 19 citing a prolonged cash crunch made worse Nov. 7 when lender Wells Fargo Capital Finance LLC declared an event of default, which Krause said “created much bigger indirect issues.”
The company's product line includes wholly owned franchises “Saints Row” and “Company of Heroes” and its World Wrestling Entertainment games produced under a licensing agreement, and it currently is developing a game based on “South Park” set to be released in 2013, as well as a new title from the creator of the successful “Assassin's Creed” series.
The ad hoc committee is represented by Paul N. Silverstein, Jonathan I. Levine and Jeremy B. Reckmeyer of Andrews Kurth LLP.
THQ is represented by Michael R. Nestor, M. Blake Cleary and Jaime Luton Chapman of Young Conaway Stargatt & Taylor LLP and Jeffrey Krause, Jonathan Layne, Ruth Fisher, Oscar Garza and Cromwell Montgomery of Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP.
The case is In re: THQ Inc., case number 1:12-bk-13398, in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the District of Delaware.
On February 05 2012 04:33 TheYango wrote: People remember Relic for DoW and CoH, and not HOMEWORLD?
I loved the SHIT out of Homeworld, 1 and 2. Even though THQ is falling apart maybe this will give someone else the chance to buy the rights to make a Homeworld 3... That would make me so happy.
On February 05 2012 04:33 TheYango wrote: People remember Relic for DoW and CoH, and not HOMEWORLD?
I loved the SHIT out of Homeworld, 1 and 2. Even though THQ is falling apart maybe this will give someone else the chance to buy the rights to make a Homeworld 3... That would make me so happy.
Here here. I loved the game too. Along with Machines, I think they were the two most underrated strategic games, but so much fun to play.
thanks for the memories THQ.... u guys published some good stuff over the years....publishing AKI wrestling games in North America was a great move.
WCW World Tour, WCW Revenge, WWF No Mercy and WWE All Stars were all great stuff. Company of Heroes was great fun.
THQ's final 3 games will no doubt get finished because they've already spent 95% of the money to make them ... They are due out in March. Company of Heroes2, South Park and Metro 2034,
The real question is.. .will Company of Heroes 2 get the kind of post sales support an RTS requires in order to be properly balanced and tuned..
Company of Heroes and Warhammer 40,000 developer Relic Entertainment is going to Sega. Saints Row developer Volition, Inc. and the Metro series are going to Koch Media (Deep Silver). The Homefront franchise is going to Crytek. THQ Montreal and the South Park license are going to Ubisoft. Evolve, a game in development by Turtle Rock Studios (which worked on Left 4 Dead), is going to Take-Two Interactive.
crytek has been working on Homefront 2 for years now. They will make a decent job. it's a shame that vigil games, the makers of darksiders 1 + 2 were not taken over by another distributor... too bad for them that they just finished Darksider 2 I guess.
I'm sort of happy Relic went to Sega, Sega has experience with RTS games and RTS studios, so I think they can do well in bringing COH2 to a god audience.
THQ went bankrupt because of sub-par games and directionless executives.
edit: Just to clarify. they invested heavily in games such as Frontline and Homefront, which turned out to be below average shooters, trying to get a spot in the market heavily dominated by the Battlefield and a Call of Duty series.
I will never forget the years upon years of joy that Homeworld gave me. Best game ever, sorry starcraft. I would give my left testicle for a Homeworld 3 release.
so sad to hear they are doing poorly.. DS2 was absolutely AMAZING. Loved it. First one was ok but imo the 2nd installment had them moving in the right direction by a large margin but to hear it didn't sell well is extremely disheartening >_<
Hey guys, I work(ed ) at THQ Montreal as a programmer, and thanks for the company support. It's a real shame that the company gets split up like this, especially since a lot of people are uncertain about where the future will take them. I especially feel for the people from Phoenix who moved to Montreal only to have this happen, so I really hope things work out for them.
On January 24 2013 22:34 ThatGuy wrote: Hey guys, I work(ed ) at THQ Montreal as a programmer, and thanks for the company support. It's a real shame that the company gets split up like this, especially since a lot of people are uncertain about where the future will take them. I especially feel for the people from Phoenix who moved to Montreal only to have this happen, so I really hope things work out for them.
Seems Platinum Games has an interest in the Darksiders IP, so Darksiders might survive instead of going into IP Limbo, Vigil (the company that made Darksiders) is disbanded though.
As sad it is to see THQ go, at least the new homes don't look that bad. Also it's looking like Vigil games is going to get a very nice new home. Platinum games(Viewtiful Joe, Bayonetta, Vanquish etc.) is apparently interested getting the makers of the Darksiders series, source here. Needless to say I'm really hyped for this, Darksiders 3 with 4 player co-op? Yes please!
ed: Beaten by Mattidute, however it might be unclear if PG is interested in the IP of Darksiders only or the whole studio.
So sad that THQ is closing sigh, they clearly have alot of devs that were making pieces that they were passionate about like Warhammer and STALKER and Metro 2033 and homeworld. God damn executive decisions fucked it all up :/
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2012/02/thqstockdrop530.jpg)
would be so sad if we'd see no more rts games from them! 
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/90/NoMercyGameBox.jpg/250px-NoMercyGameBox.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yywww.jpg)
). What really killed it for me was the gameplay which consisted of way too much capping and way too little fighting for my tastes (which in part might have been caused by bad maps with too many points to cap). Compared to that fighting for points in DoW was slower paced and the outcome bore more impact![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g2AjS.png)
