On February 01 2012 07:44 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 05:27 sevencck wrote:On January 31 2012 14:54 Eps wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And a plethora of research and data will disagree with your notions of what rape is really about. To label it all as feminist bullshit is just silly. Libyan women being raped as spoils of Shariah lawViolence Against Women: War's overlooked VictimsGuess you haven't heard of Wartime rape. This isn't proof or even evidence for the claim that rape is about asserting dominance over your victim. At the very best it suggests that at times that might be part of the equation. If you're making a claim that rape is about X, then the onus of proof is on you, not the people who deny that single mindedness. Criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists would put forth that the human psyche is very complex, particularly a pathological deranged one that wants to rape someone. As a result, to assert that it all boils down to power is contradictory and counter intuitive. Men can potentially assert their (sometimes) physical dominance over women without raping them. In fact, to say something somewhat horrible, if I hated some girl and for some reason wanted to let her know that I physically dominate her and that she's utterly powerless, I don't believe I'd need or want to rape her. Ergo, the desire to rape someone is probably not born simply of a mindset that wants to maintain power over woman. Is it just straight men that want to maintain power over women? Do gay men wish to maintain power over women? If so would they really go about it with rape? You're overlooking something else. Can the mindset that is capable and willing to impulsively rape someone even be scrutinized in such a way to outline a logical process with a purpose? If an isolated case could be would you really be content to extend that to all rape cases? I've never claimed that it was only about power. But what I did say was to brush aside all mention of it as feminist bullshit was just silly.
If you don't claim it's only about power then why did you respond to someone who said "The 'rape is about power' bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research." He wasn't necessarily saying power isn't a factor in some cases of rape, he's disregarding the predominantly feminist notion that rape is just a psychological tool men use to maintain power over women. There is zero data directly supporting that notion, zero. Furthermore it flies in the face of common sense. Let's acknowledge that there are cases of males raping males for power (in prison). While this does suggest that rape can be about power, it immediately undermines rape as something specifically used to keep women in "their place." Further, it renders somewhat childish and offensive the notion that rape for power is a women's issue.
On February 01 2012 07:44 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 05:27 sevencck wrote:On January 31 2012 14:54 Eps wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And a plethora of research and data will disagree with your notions of what rape is really about. To label it all as feminist bullshit is just silly. Libyan women being raped as spoils of Shariah lawViolence Against Women: War's overlooked VictimsGuess you haven't heard of Wartime rape. This isn't proof or even evidence for the claim that rape is about asserting dominance over your victim. At the very best it suggests that at times that might be part of the equation. If you're making a claim that rape is about X, then the onus of proof is on you, not the people who deny that single mindedness. Criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists would put forth that the human psyche is very complex, particularly a pathological deranged one that wants to rape someone. As a result, to assert that it all boils down to power is contradictory and counter intuitive. Men can potentially assert their (sometimes) physical dominance over women without raping them. In fact, to say something somewhat horrible, if I hated some girl and for some reason wanted to let her know that I physically dominate her and that she's utterly powerless, I don't believe I'd need or want to rape her. Ergo, the desire to rape someone is probably not born simply of a mindset that wants to maintain power over woman. Is it just straight men that want to maintain power over women? Do gay men wish to maintain power over women? If so would they really go about it with rape? You're overlooking something else. Can the mindset that is capable and willing to impulsively rape someone even be scrutinized in such a way to outline a logical process with a purpose? If an isolated case could be would you really be content to extend that to all rape cases? I've never claimed that it was only about power. But what I did say was to brush aside all mention of it as feminist bullshit was just silly. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 20:19 ShadeR wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And prison rape? To highlight another point noted. To brush off the notion that power isn't a factor, and labelling it as a feminist rhetoric is an insult to the field.
To what field exactly? Feminism? The notion that rape is just about power is something I only hear from feminists. Let it be insulting. The notion that women need to be empowered and have equal opportunities is above critique. Feminism is not above critique.
On February 01 2012 07:44 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 05:27 sevencck wrote:On January 31 2012 14:54 Eps wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And a plethora of research and data will disagree with your notions of what rape is really about. To label it all as feminist bullshit is just silly. Libyan women being raped as spoils of Shariah lawViolence Against Women: War's overlooked VictimsGuess you haven't heard of Wartime rape. This isn't proof or even evidence for the claim that rape is about asserting dominance over your victim. At the very best it suggests that at times that might be part of the equation. If you're making a claim that rape is about X, then the onus of proof is on you, not the people who deny that single mindedness. Criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists would put forth that the human psyche is very complex, particularly a pathological deranged one that wants to rape someone. As a result, to assert that it all boils down to power is contradictory and counter intuitive. Men can potentially assert their (sometimes) physical dominance over women without raping them. In fact, to say something somewhat horrible, if I hated some girl and for some reason wanted to let her know that I physically dominate her and that she's utterly powerless, I don't believe I'd need or want to rape her. Ergo, the desire to rape someone is probably not born simply of a mindset that wants to maintain power over woman. Is it just straight men that want to maintain power over women? Do gay men wish to maintain power over women? If so would they really go about it with rape? You're overlooking something else. Can the mindset that is capable and willing to impulsively rape someone even be scrutinized in such a way to outline a logical process with a purpose? If an isolated case could be would you really be content to extend that to all rape cases? I've never claimed that it was only about power. But what I did say was to brush aside all mention of it as feminist bullshit was just silly. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 20:19 ShadeR wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And prison rape? And if you really want to break down sociological/psychological/criminological analysis on what causes behaviour, the whole field comes crumbling down. There is no guarnateed method in conclusively determining behaviour, there is only strong correlations. We can't explain why some people choose to deviate and why others do not.
Agreed. This is why I don't think it's possible to reduce the motivation for rape to one solitary attribute.
On February 01 2012 07:44 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 05:27 sevencck wrote:On January 31 2012 14:54 Eps wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And a plethora of research and data will disagree with your notions of what rape is really about. To label it all as feminist bullshit is just silly. Libyan women being raped as spoils of Shariah lawViolence Against Women: War's overlooked VictimsGuess you haven't heard of Wartime rape. This isn't proof or even evidence for the claim that rape is about asserting dominance over your victim. At the very best it suggests that at times that might be part of the equation. If you're making a claim that rape is about X, then the onus of proof is on you, not the people who deny that single mindedness. Criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists would put forth that the human psyche is very complex, particularly a pathological deranged one that wants to rape someone. As a result, to assert that it all boils down to power is contradictory and counter intuitive. Men can potentially assert their (sometimes) physical dominance over women without raping them. In fact, to say something somewhat horrible, if I hated some girl and for some reason wanted to let her know that I physically dominate her and that she's utterly powerless, I don't believe I'd need or want to rape her. Ergo, the desire to rape someone is probably not born simply of a mindset that wants to maintain power over woman. Is it just straight men that want to maintain power over women? Do gay men wish to maintain power over women? If so would they really go about it with rape? You're overlooking something else. Can the mindset that is capable and willing to impulsively rape someone even be scrutinized in such a way to outline a logical process with a purpose? If an isolated case could be would you really be content to extend that to all rape cases? I've never claimed that it was only about power. But what I did say was to brush aside all mention of it as feminist bullshit was just silly. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 20:19 ShadeR wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And prison rape? Can you explain why some men will go about their urges by paying for hookers, while others will rape? Money isn't a factor, considering that stats say it isn't the homeless that commit rape. Not to mention that a high proportion of rapists that are reported are known to victims, relatives or even people they're in a relationship with. Rape Stats - National Crime Victimization Survey - US 2005Against my better judgement, I'll even waste my time to post up proof of it. The site may be a victim advocacy group, but the data comes from the U.S Department of Justice..
Of course I can't explain it, that's the point we're making, it defies explanation, or at least easy explanation. Thanks for providing the stats, although the only thing they prove beyond the shadow of any doubt is that rape is a crime that is perpetrated by a wide variety of people of a wide variety of background of a wide variety of ages in a wide variety of locations, likely for a wide variety of reasons.
On February 01 2012 07:44 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 05:27 sevencck wrote:On January 31 2012 14:54 Eps wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And a plethora of research and data will disagree with your notions of what rape is really about. To label it all as feminist bullshit is just silly. Libyan women being raped as spoils of Shariah lawViolence Against Women: War's overlooked VictimsGuess you haven't heard of Wartime rape. This isn't proof or even evidence for the claim that rape is about asserting dominance over your victim. At the very best it suggests that at times that might be part of the equation. If you're making a claim that rape is about X, then the onus of proof is on you, not the people who deny that single mindedness. Criminologists, sociologists, and psychologists would put forth that the human psyche is very complex, particularly a pathological deranged one that wants to rape someone. As a result, to assert that it all boils down to power is contradictory and counter intuitive. Men can potentially assert their (sometimes) physical dominance over women without raping them. In fact, to say something somewhat horrible, if I hated some girl and for some reason wanted to let her know that I physically dominate her and that she's utterly powerless, I don't believe I'd need or want to rape her. Ergo, the desire to rape someone is probably not born simply of a mindset that wants to maintain power over woman. Is it just straight men that want to maintain power over women? Do gay men wish to maintain power over women? If so would they really go about it with rape? You're overlooking something else. Can the mindset that is capable and willing to impulsively rape someone even be scrutinized in such a way to outline a logical process with a purpose? If an isolated case could be would you really be content to extend that to all rape cases? I've never claimed that it was only about power. But what I did say was to brush aside all mention of it as feminist bullshit was just silly. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 20:19 ShadeR wrote:On January 28 2012 07:23 sunprince wrote:On January 28 2012 02:42 zalz wrote:Someone else already said it. Rape is more about domination then simple lust. We approach the mind of a rapist from a normal persons mind. Who would you rape? Well if I had to rape someone, obviously the prettiest girl.
That's just not how these people think. The "rape is about power" bullshit comes from feminist ideology and is not supported by criminological/sociological research. Criminological studies suggest that like every other crime, the motivations for rape are multifaceted. There is significant research which shows that most male rapists do not prefer rape over consensual sex, and while male rapists have been shown to be more aroused by forced sex than a typical male, they are still more strongly aroused by consensual sex. There's also a strong correlation between the rise of widely available porn, and a decrease in sexual violence, which utterly contradicts the feminist idea of "Porn is the theory; rape is the practice." The notion of "rape is about patriarchy and is an attempt to maintain power over women" is based on feminist theorycrafting rather than empirical data. In general, males don't use sex to get/maintain social status and social power; they use social status and social power over others to get sex. When it comes to humans (and to a limited degree, some of our primate cousins), it's females that are the ones to use sex in order to gain social power/status. The mistake made by feminist thinkers was projecting female motivations for sex onto males. And prison rape? And the logic that the onus is on me to prove that power plays a role in rape? That logic can just as easily be pointed back at him or you, that you need to disprove that power doesn't play a role. Considering that the counter-point is going against long-established research, the onus is on others to disprove it.
No, because our position is questioning a very specific assertion that all rape is about men maintaining power over women, that is not supported by any meaningful research (in fact the research suggests there are likely many factors involved). That assertion carries with it the burden of evidence and proof, debunking it does not, in fact the best way to debunk it is to point to a lack of evidence/proof.
What I'm wondering is why you took exception to his post in the first place if you agree that rape isn't as simple as the predominantly feminist assertion that it's just about power.
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