EPTso it makes no sense to argue that pistol isnt a weapon to kill or to harm seriously if u trained to shot to the center
Suspect with crowbar killed by police - Page 49
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To keep this thread open for discussion, please READ THIS BEFORE POSTING: The following types of posts are banworthy: - Nation bashing. - Significantly disrespectful posts toward any of the parties involved. Please familiarize yourself with some of the basics on the use of force in the United States before posting in this thread. If you feel the need to post a reaction to the news, post a comment on the youtube video. Don't bring it here. This thread is for a discussion on the topic, and your post better have substance to it. Low content posts will be met with moderator action. Here is a good post by someone with experience in escalation of force training. Read that too. This post might change your opinion of in the incident. | ||
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DanceOnCreep
Germany22 Posts
so it makes no sense to argue that pistol isnt a weapon to kill or to harm seriously if u trained to shot to the center | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:57 DanceOnCreep wrote: 6) a crowbar isnt at death dealing machine too and it takes some really hard hits to the head to kill someone with that ...... ............ Do you get off on spouting nonsense? Anything heavy and hard that is swing quickly towards your head is life threatening. | ||
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DanceOnCreep
Germany22 Posts
it sounds like propaganda from the weapon lobby and if u dont read the last pages u dont get it anyways so stop saying iam talking non sense if a fucking pistol isnt a death-dealing-machine what the fuck is a freaking crowbar if u dont get it its not my fault | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:57 DanceOnCreep wrote: 6) a crowbar isnt at death dealing machine too and it takes some really hard hits to the head to kill someone with that so it makes no sense to argue that pistol isnt a weapon to kill or to harm seriously if u trained to shot to the center If you don't think you can die from one crowbar hit.. I just don't know what to say. Just because it has a use besides harming people doesn't mean its not a weapon. Back in the old days in Taiwan, few people had guns so mafia killed with screwdrivers, machetes, etc. Hell, how the heck do you think cavemen did it? Fucking rocks = lethal weapons man. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:00 SafeAsCheese wrote: ...... ............ Do you get off on spouting nonsense? Anything heavy and hard that is swing quickly towards your head is life threatening. You missed the context. It was in response to a post above saying handguns are not "death dealing machines". By that standard, neither are crowbars. The suspect would be required to severely injure the central nervous system with a crowbar as well to deal a deadly blow. | ||
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Nawyria
Netherlands140 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:14 plogamer wrote: Another point: The officers did not keep their distance! Though he did gesture aggressively, he did not make a full charge at the officers at any point in time. I'd like to point your attention to these two posts. They got as close as they did to get within warning distance and the effective range of tasers, and they did it as fast as they did to minimize the risk to bystanders. When he didn't comply with the order to disarm, shrugged off the taser and turned around to what seems like lunge at the tasering officer, the K9 officer had little choice but to shoot. If they had kept their distance they'd be putting bystanders at risk and the outcry might be over how the officers made the situation dangerous for the bystanders. | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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Khaine
Sweden75 Posts
Shooting him ten fucking times, even after he went down? Don't really like that decision. Sounds very, VERY over-excessive | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
isn't it also possible the suspect might have IBA IV vs the cop's I-II weapon? If so... he could have easily survived from all the shots... | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:07 Nawyria wrote: I'd like to point your attention to these two posts. They got as close as they did to get within warning distance and the effective range of tasers, and they did it as fast as they did to minimize the risk to bystanders. When he didn't comply with the order to disarm, shrugged off the taser and turned around to what seems like lunge at the tasering officer, the K9 officer had little choice but to shoot. If they had kept their distance they'd be putting bystanders at risk and the outcry might be over how the officers made the situation dangerous for the bystanders. without unduly exposing yourselve to risks (meaning definitly outside of meele range).Second post <- Yes, this is my point. Hearing distance =/= melee distance. And I am not arguing against shots being fired. I am arguing against the number of shots and the circumstances of the shooting. See my previous post on that. You really should quote the whole thing for the context. The forum has a very nifty ability of collapsing all the quotes, if you didn't notice. | ||
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KinosJourney2
Sweden1811 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:16 Caryc wrote: why not shoot him in his fucking legs? wtf.. I don't think shooting him in the leg will stop him from swinging the crowbar with his arms, but you might be right in that they should have aimed for another part of his body to avoid killing him. | ||
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DanceOnCreep
Germany22 Posts
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CrazyAsian
United States188 Posts
1. 3. At 0:36 seconds he is looking directly at both police officers. He knows that at least one of them has a weapon aimed at him. 2. Look at how he shuffles his feet right before he gets shot, I don't know the correct term for it, but it looks like he is winding up for the swing. 3. Look at how he places both hands on the grip. Couple the shuffling of the feet and the placement of both of his hands on the grip, he could have swung the crowbar at the police officer in less than a second. Another thing I would like to point out is that the officer that attempted to taser the suspect flinched back right before the other opened fire: 1. He saw the suspect shuffle, he saw him place both hands on the grip. 2. Note how the officer with the taser started to put his actual handgun away before he shifted back and brought it back out. Had it only been one officer, there is every chance the suspect would have been able to swing before the officer had the handgun back out. Last, I admit this is speculation here, but the officers both would see the backpack he had on. Look at it, it seems to me as though its full. Considering that he was still on his feet after the first 5 shots, the last 5 shots had no guarantee of going through the backpack (bear in mind, nobody could know what was in it), they have to make sure that he does go down. 10 bullets sound like a lot on paper, talking about it after the fact, but if your faced with a situation like that where you have no choice shoot until there is no longer a threat. I hope the officers are assigned desk jobs as I believe is standard practice during the investigation and then returned to active duty. They did their jobs as they are trained and expected to do. | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
On January 25 2012 15:27 Curu wrote: Dunno if it's been posted already but this immediately came to mind: Justified IMO. If you blatantly disregard multiple warnings and make any indication you are going for a weapon you deserve to be shot. (Warning the video will make you feel like shit afterwards) This is seriously so disgusting... I've seen so many pictures of gore and shit on my time on the internet and this video with nothing graphic on the screen just the officers cries of pain has made me feel sick to my stomach like I have never felt and has given me a whole new respect for the police. RIP to that Deputy. This also makes me rethink my thoughts on the death penalty.. For some one to methodically torture someone like listening to those cries of pain before they finally kill them... Something needs to be seriously fucked up in your brain to be able to do that to another human being Also this... as the days go by I lose so much faith in humanity around me I honestly wish I could go back into my little shell as a 5 year old and enjoy everything being nice. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:20 KinosJourney2 wrote: I don't think shooting him in the leg will stop him from swinging the crowbar with his arms, but you might be right in that they should have aimed for another part of his body to avoid killing him. Eh no you don't do that. Police always aim where they are most likely to hit, which is the torso. This isn't hollywood. The only thing you can argue about is the number of shots. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10330 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:54 plogamer wrote: Deadly threat only because they moved into the range of the weapon. There is video evidence to prove that. The officers availed themselves to the threat without taking proper precautions i.e. maintaining a distance. The threat also has to be imminent. From a proper distance, a man with a crowbar, with bullet wounds, is no longer an imminent threat - unless he gestures to begin a charge or an attack of some sort. He was gesturing an attack because he was preparing to swing. They were indeed out of range of the weapon. Sure they were still pretty close but with proper reaction they should be fine. How do you know he couldn't have pulled out a new weapon? He was already gesturing an attack, he was a threat. Now the only thing left is the unknown of whether or not he might have a gun or other weapon besides a crowbar/hammer that he could attack with from that distance. Since the police officers couldn't know if he did have such a weapon, and he was turned away (yeah you could say he turned away only cus he got shot, but that's his fault for advancing with a weapon), it makes perfect sense to me for them to continue shooting him. | ||
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nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:05 plogamer wrote: You missed the context. It was in response to a post above saying handguns are not "death dealing machines". By that standard, neither are crowbars. The suspect would be required to severely injure the central nervous system with a crowbar as well to deal a deadly blow. Where do you get all these things from? One blow to the neck or temple can easily be deadly. Not that it matters in any way. | ||
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:19 Hypertension wrote: At :44 seconds it really seems like the guy with the crowbar (? looks more like a small sledge hammer to me) is about to smash in the other cops head. I sadly think that the force was justified in this case, the suspect clearly wasn't processing things very well and was acting very dangerously. By :46 it is obvious that the suspect was just posturing, but firing has already begun. Why would you even pretend to attack an armed man? I don't see how anyone can blame the cops in this situation. They actually seem to be doing their job in very difficult circumstances. That is what I thought exactly. While there would probably have been better ways to solve this, the guy feigned an attack. It's probably too many rounds used, but shooting him seems justified in this case. | ||
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Paperplane
Netherlands1823 Posts
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