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To keep this thread open for discussion, please READ THIS BEFORE POSTING: The following types of posts are banworthy: - Nation bashing. - Significantly disrespectful posts toward any of the parties involved. Please familiarize yourself with some of the basics on the use of force in the United States before posting in this thread. If you feel the need to post a reaction to the news, post a comment on the youtube video. Don't bring it here. This thread is for a discussion on the topic, and your post better have substance to it. Low content posts will be met with moderator action. Here is a good post by someone with experience in escalation of force training. Read that too. This post might change your opinion of in the incident. | ||
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KonohaFlash
Canada1590 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:16 Caryc wrote: why not shoot him in his fucking legs? wtf.. You can bleed-out just as easily with being shot in the legs. Obviously not as quickly as with being shot in the chest, but yeah, there was no reason to even shoot him to begin with. They had dogs with them as well as tasers and pepper spray. It's just Police officers power-tripping. | ||
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phlebas
Germany60 Posts
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:17 tapk69 wrote: This is real? only in america , he shot 5 shots and then 4 more to kill the guy , not to take his weapon down ( hammer !? ).. completely unjustified , he could have shoot 2 bullets or so in the legs , not 9 , he even had a dog with him to get the guys arm.. I watched lots of seasons of COPS , i love it , cops on it usually are nice guys ( at least on camera ) but this is plain wrong . Taser works if it reaches the skin always , even on PCP... Well, the guy was wearing heavy clothing. | ||
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Hypertension
United States802 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
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Skyling
United States76 Posts
Shame the guy had to die but he brought it on himself . | ||
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zakmaa
Canada525 Posts
On topic: I think the cop did use more force than necessary - it definitely seemed like he wanted to kill the suspect rather than subdue him at that point. But given the situation I wouldn't say anything wrong of the officer. There was a man with a crowbar going at a fellow police officer. The guy that got shot had it coming to him, unfortunately. Hopefully (though I doubt it) he'll live.. | ||
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arChieSC2
Spain162 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:18 iNcontroL wrote: excessive? Police are supposed to shoot to kill.. it isn't like he reloaded and unloaded on the guy again. If a cop EVER shoots it's not to stop or slow down someone or something.. it's to kill him. Get your facts right... do u really think every shot a police makes is supposed to kill ? lets start with the executions. | ||
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Westy
England808 Posts
Silly actions by both sides to be honest. | ||
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Dranak
United States464 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Same here. That would have been far more interesting. "Police kill suspect with Crowbar" is way too ambiguous lol. I assume that cops are supposed to shoot to incapacitate instead of kill unless they feel deadly force is necessary, and I don't think it looked like deadly force was necessary, despite the fact that the guy with the crowbar was clearly an idiot for arbitrarily running at a cop like that. At least here in the US, that is not the case. By definition, a firearm (with standard ammunition) is deadly force. It's actually very difficult (and dangerous) to attempt to wound someone (extremity shot) vs kill (aim center mass) with a gun. In this case it seems the police tried verbal force, followed by non-lethal force (taser) before responding with deadly force. Seems reasonable enough to me. | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
I will cede that the officer probably fired more shots than he needed to, but technically I think he was right in dropping this suspect. | ||
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NinjoOb
Canada128 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:14 LesPhoques wrote: Terrible title, terrible people filming (Who the fuck laughs when someone is dead?) and correct decision by cops. Person with crowbar was a danger to public and to police officers. Cudos for police waiting for last moment to shoot.  They thought the police officer used rubber bullets according to what they said. | ||
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forgottendreams
United States1771 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:18 phlebas wrote: Fuck they killed Gordon Freeman. RIP | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
Anyway, I'll keep this in mind next time i feel like causing trouble with a crow bar. | ||
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KonohaFlash
Canada1590 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:20 RoosterSamurai wrote: Well...From what the article says, the suspect had been given a lot of opportunities to drop his weapon, and was even tazed. Right before he was shot, he appeared to be readying his weapon, and the officer looked like he defended himself from potentially lethal force. It's not like this guy was brandishing a screwdriver or something....That thing looks deadly. I will cede that the officer probably fired more shots than he needed to, but technically I think he was right in dropping this suspect. Dogs. | ||
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JethroTV
United States206 Posts
On topic: Unfortunate that he had to be shot, but he could have prevented his own death by simply following police orders. Simple as that if you ask me. | ||
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Jamel
United States26 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:16 Caryc wrote: why not shoot him in his fucking legs? wtf.. Because, at least in the United States, officers are trained with the sole intention of shooting to kill. There is no such thing as shooting to injure, etc. While I do agree that 10-11 shots is excessive, the suspect did charge at an officer with what is considered to be a deadly weapon. | ||
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Exigaet
Canada355 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:19 Skyling wrote: ok put yourself in the police officer's sistuation you have a guy trying to smash your partner with a giant lead pipe and you have your gun on him, do you aim for the leg or arm and maybe miss, or do you shoot the guy in the chest where you are pointing the gun at?? I know which i would do, and i am sure its easy to unload a whole clip into a guy when adrendline gets you. Shame the guy had to die but he brought it on himself . How the fuck are you going to miss someone's leg when you unload 5 shots first then 5 more shots seconds later..? | ||
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Zinroc
Canada73 Posts
The guy walks out, doesn't listen to cops, pretends to act tough.... and then he dies... dead... no judge, no jury, no crime committed that is worth more than a few months of community service, he just gets killed I can't imagine a reason for this beyond the cop wanting to prove to himself that he really is a "badass" and is capable of murder This is insane.... | ||
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DiLiGu
United States185 Posts
Police are also NOT trained to shoot to kill. They are trained to shoot to instantly end an engagement/diffuse a situation. Instantly. No officer ever wants to take a life or enjoys having to employ the use of deadly force. Which is why they call it "deadly force" and not "shooting to kill". The amount of force being applied has to immediately end the conflict, and this much force can cause death. If you watch the video, the man is literally in the process of swinging his weapon at an officer. The officer firing the weapon did exactly what he had to do. Think this is excessive is a joke... real life is not the movies. When you fire a weapon a person doesn't go shooting backwards, and you don't "aim for the legs". This is why police are trained to fire their weapons accurately and rapidly. He is not intending to kill his victim, he is intending to immediately stop him from trying to kill his partner. | ||
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