EPTSuspect with crowbar killed by police - Page 10
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To keep this thread open for discussion, please READ THIS BEFORE POSTING: The following types of posts are banworthy: - Nation bashing. - Significantly disrespectful posts toward any of the parties involved. Please familiarize yourself with some of the basics on the use of force in the United States before posting in this thread. If you feel the need to post a reaction to the news, post a comment on the youtube video. Don't bring it here. This thread is for a discussion on the topic, and your post better have substance to it. Low content posts will be met with moderator action. Here is a good post by someone with experience in escalation of force training. Read that too. This post might change your opinion of in the incident. | ||
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Dbars
United States273 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:56 Roggay wrote: Actually, the cop was already far away from the range of the guy when the other cop shot him. And to me it doesnt seem like he had the intention to swing it completely, you can see him hesitate, like he was trying to scare the cops. Yeah, scare the cops... nothing says don't shoot me like brandishing weapons at police officers. | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:56 Roggay wrote: Actually, the cop was already far away from the range of the guy when the other cop shot him. And to me it doesnt seem like he had the intention to swing it completely, you can see him hesitate, like he was trying to scare the cops. There's a tiny bit of a difference between being on the receiving end of an attack, and watching it after it already happened on youtube... Not much of a difference, just a little bit. | ||
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ozzy1346
United States38 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:55 FireS wrote: why not let the dog on him .. this is so bad .. maybe...cause the guy had a crowbar? | ||
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Mondieu
Romania803 Posts
This looks surreal from all points of view. I don't understand the black man's intentions at all. He wanted to die,that's all I'm getting from this. This thread is a waste of my time. Why the hell do people feel the need to post senseless stuff on these forums? There's no discussion to be had. Policemen's actions were clearly justified at the end of the day no matter how much you want to take the black guy's side. Crow bar = lethal force. It's still funny looking at these pro US policemen trying to shove into everyone that these policemen did the perfect thing and it's normal. Because there were obviously at least 3 fuck ups. 1. You don't get close to someone who you know is carrying a lethal force. ( who sent these officers into melee range ??) 2. You don't go day dreaming while someone is 3 meters in front of you with a crow bar. 3. Actually the guy doing the shooting was the only one doing his job. User was warned for this post | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:55 FireS wrote: why not let the dog on him .. this is so bad .. ya, let the dog get hit by that metal thing and then shoot the guy. Seems reasonable. | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:54 Myles wrote: Who the fuck do you hang out with? Unless you're jacked up on cocaine or something, one shot to the chest is enough to immobilize someone. And it might be hard to see, but it seems to me that he had his back turned and was heading to the ground when the next set of shots were fired. This is wrong. When adrenaline is flowing a gunshot from a gun like that will not necessarily take someone down. Especially someone who shrugged off taser shots. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:18 iNcontroL wrote: excessive? Police are supposed to shoot to kill.. it isn't like he reloaded and unloaded on the guy again. If a cop EVER shoots it's not to stop or slow down someone or something.. it's to kill him. This. First of all, the idea of "shooting to wound" is a myth to begin with. Seriously, gunshot wounds DO NOT work like they do in Hollywood movies. This is real life, not cinema. Second, if an officer fires his gun it is for the purpose of using DEADLY force. Period. If you want to argue that the officer should have used a taser or whatever, be my guest, but don't naively put Hollywood expectations onto real life. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8061 Posts
Shoot him in the leg? wtf? Put yourself in the position of the police officer: "Oh, that man is about to swing a hammer at my partner's face, I better try to aim for his legs so I might be able to catch him alive". You put him down quick and easy. Also, the people filming are assholes. They continued to laugh way after they knew the guy was dead. | ||
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wunsun
Canada622 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:56 Roggay wrote: Actually, the cop was already far away from the range of the guy when the other cop shot him. And to me it doesnt seem like he had the intention to swing it completely, you can see him hesitate, like he was trying to scare the cops. I don't think scaring cops when they have guns pointed at you is a very smart thing to do. And in that situation, do you want to bet your life that he is only scaring you instead of swinging it at you. | ||
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AC3
Canada337 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:18 iNcontroL wrote: excessive? Police are supposed to shoot to kill.. it isn't like he reloaded and unloaded on the guy again. If a cop EVER shoots it's not to stop or slow down someone or something.. it's to kill him. This. I heard a valuable lesson from a teacher last year who is friends with a few police officers (this is in Canada btw). COP's aren't trained to the level of SWAT members, they are trained to kill if they ever draw and fire their weapon. They are taught to "double-tap" aka fire two shots to ensure the target is brought down. Even unholstering their weapons requires pages and pages of paperwork to be filled out, so it is not something to take lightly. The warning they exhibit is to put their hand on their gun, if it gets removed from their holster they are about to shoot you. I know its different in the States as I see videos and COP shows where they point their guns at possible suspects, however I'm sure the basic training they receive teaches them to shoot to kill as well. Having not watched the video, as I don't enjoy watching people get killed, I gather from the OP and comments that the suspect moved to attack the officer with a crowbar. This is obvious grounds to shoot the suspect, and unfortunately 9 times out of 10 that means he will be killed. I can't argue that 5 rounds was most likely excessive if he was brought down in 1, however given the situation and the training the officer has received, I see no reason why he should be reprimanded for his actions. Apologies if the video depicts an obvious use of excessive and unjustified force which I am not privy too, yet I would be very hesitant to change my stance as in the heat of the moment he instinctively did what he was taught to do. What if this man had a gun as well? There would be no way of knowing that, and if the suspect was given the chance he may very well of opened fire in return. TLDR: The officer did what he was taught in training, which was to shoot to kill. As a note to Canadian's: if a COP EVER has his weapon drawn and pointed at you, he is only seconds away from shooting you. I would suggest you surrender immediately at that point no matter the circumstance so not to end up dead. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:51 Roggay wrote: AND? Does that justify shooting this guy in this particular case? HELL NO! Why would you come with such a stupid argumentation. Actually it does justify the shooting in this case. Police have a right to defend themselves. Considering many of them are up against lethal force in certain neighborhoods; they have the right to use lethal force. Honestly working as a police officer in South Central LA or inner city detroit is probably more dangerous than being a soldier in Iraq. At least the soldiers in Iraq have combat armor and armored vehicals. Police in the US are out there every day facing demented people like this guy who would not think twice about killing the officers. This guy was threatening the police with deadly force, he was warned multiple times, the officers tried non-lethal force, and he kept coming at them. I have zero problem with the officers shooting this guy dead. They did their job and protected the community from this lunatic. If you still can't understand why they had the right to use deadly force, take a trip to South Central. You will understand in about 2 minutes as your wallet is stole and you car is jacked. | ||
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NEXUS6
United States413 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:56 Swaddled wrote: The police officer could be shining his shoe right there for all I care. The criminal was still told multiple times to put the weapon down. Ineffectively tasered. Then swung at a police officer. End of story. I can't agree at all. The negligence of these officers in this exact instance had a great deal to do with the death of this citizen. I'm not saying that wouldn't have had to kill him at some point, but as things played. By your logic it would be just to kill a man breaking windows even if he never turned around or responded as long as you asked him to put the hammer down. Obviously there is an in between, and Due process and proper protocol are of the utmost. I say that because he couldn't have swung if the police officer wasn't so close, and so of course it has a massive amount to do with it | ||
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UrielSC
Canada143 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:57 semantics wrote: Yeah, scare the cops... nothing says don't shoot me like brandishing weapons at police officers. I'm not trying to say that it was not stupid to do that. I'm just saying that his death could have been avoided very easily. | ||
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Sgonzo
Canada202 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:57 DeepElemBlues wrote: Well sorry but that simply isn't true with a handgun, unless it's a direct hit on the heart or the aorta. in my experience(ive seen someone shot once), a gut shot puts you into shock and you get light headed and fall to the ground casue blood ceases to flow properly through your body and that was a .38 caliber shell fired from a snub nosed revolver | ||
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
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woowoo
France164 Posts
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