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To keep this thread open for discussion, please READ THIS BEFORE POSTING:The following types of posts are banworthy: - Nation bashing. - Significantly disrespectful posts toward any of the parties involved. Please familiarize yourself with some of the basics on the use of force in the United States before posting in this thread. If you feel the need to post a reaction to the news, post a comment on the youtube video. Don't bring it here. This thread is for a discussion on the topic, and your post better have substance to it. Low content posts will be met with moderator action. Here is a good post by someone with experience in escalation of force training. Read that too. This post might change your opinion of in the incident. |
On January 25 2012 06:00 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 05:57 semantics wrote:On January 25 2012 05:56 Roggay wrote:On January 25 2012 05:53 semantics wrote:On January 25 2012 05:50 Tanukki wrote:
The shooting was completely justified. Just unfortunate some cops are such pussies. That's right, you would have dodged that swing then proceed to do a wake up shoryuken fadc into ultra on the suspect, perfectly knocking him out. Actually, the cop was already far away from the range of the guy when the other cop shot him. And to me it doesnt seem like he had the intention to swing it completely, you can see him hesitate, like he was trying to scare the cops. Yeah, scare the cops... nothing says don't shoot me like brandishing weapons at police officers. I'm not trying to say that it was not stupid to do that. I'm just saying that his death could have been avoided very easily.
I have to agree with this. His death could've easily been avoided, by putting away the conduit bender, getting off the cocaine and finding something productive to do with his time other than smashing windows at Carls Jr...
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On January 25 2012 06:03 woowoo wrote:
The policeman should've released the dog. I've seen cops use ladders against peoples with swords, very effective.
So then the dog gets the crowbar upside then head and dies, and the cops shoot him anyway because that's the same as attacking an officer?
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That... was hilarious, who would be stupid enough to swing a sledgehammer at a cop. I have a suspicion that guy wanted to die.
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i live 10 minutes away from this carls jr, its usually a safe neighborhood 
you have to be crazy to justify the subsequent shots #6-10 when the guy is on the ground. that was an execution.
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On January 25 2012 06:03 woowoo wrote:
The policeman should've released the dog. I've seen cops use ladders against peoples with swords, very effective.
no need to risk the poor dog, man,, come on.. O_o
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I think that it was the right call. It would have been better if he hit with a taser. In the end he was the man that charged a police officer with a crowbar, and was gunned down because of his actions.
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On January 25 2012 06:04 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:03 woowoo wrote:
The policeman should've released the dog. I've seen cops use ladders against peoples with swords, very effective. So then the dog gets the crowbar upside then head and dies, and the cops shoot him anyway because that's the same as attacking an officer?
Also the officer feels horrible, alot of k-9 unit dogs live with their handler they spend alot of time with those dogs, often buying the dog from the city once they retire(the dog retires). And i know they feel horrible when one of them dies.
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On January 25 2012 05:48 Timurid wrote:
I feel first shots from the 1st police officer was fine, but the 2nd cop just got trigger happy.
Exactly. The suspect was already down, there was absolutely no need for 5 more shots.
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On January 25 2012 06:04 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:03 woowoo wrote:
The policeman should've released the dog. I've seen cops use ladders against peoples with swords, very effective. So then the dog gets the crowbar upside then head and dies, and the cops shoot him anyway because that's the same as attacking an officer?
From my point of view, the officer could have released the dog after the first string of shots instead of firing the second string of shots. The suspect back was toward the officers and dog, and he seemed to be going down. At this point the dog being released seems to be a better alternative than shooting the second set of shots. However, I do understand the adrendaline pumping through the officer's blood may have resulted in him making sure that he and his buddies (dog included) are safe.
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On January 25 2012 06:05 Kokujin wrote:i live 10 minutes away from this carls jr, its usually a safe neighborhood you have to be crazy to justify the subsequent shots #6-10 when the guy is on the ground. that was an execution.
^ thank you, the hypocrasy exposed by all these police events is ridiculous, the officer who got swung at fired 5 times suspect slumps maybe doesnt fall to ground but is clearly incapacitated is not even given time to re-evaluate tha he was just shot and change his mind the second officer who clearly just was looking for oppurtunity to get his gun off fired
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Look at what the guy is wearing, it's like some giant parka/backpack, who knows what he has on under that, maybe even body armor, especially given his violent and reckless behavior. I could see the cop taking that into account when deciding how many shots to fire.
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On January 25 2012 06:07 Sgonzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:05 Kokujin wrote:i live 10 minutes away from this carls jr, its usually a safe neighborhood you have to be crazy to justify the subsequent shots #6-10 when the guy is on the ground. that was an execution. ^ thank you, the hypocrasy exposed by all these police events is ridiculous, the officer who got swung at fired 5 times suspect slumps maybe doesnt fall to ground but is clearly incapacitated is not even given time to re-evaluate tha he was just shot and change his mind the second officer who clearly just was looking for oppurtunity to get his gun off fired
You try being in that situation and thinking clearly when you've just shot at someone and have tons of addrenaline on your system, not every one can have a clear head in a situation like that.
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On January 25 2012 06:00 Sgonzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 05:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:Who the fuck do you hang out with? Unless you're jacked up on cocaine or something, one shot to the chest is enough to immobilize someone. Well sorry but that simply isn't true with a handgun, unless it's a direct hit on the heart or the aorta. in my experience(ive seen someone shot once), a gut shot puts you into shock and you get light headed and fall to the ground casue blood ceases to flow properly through your body and that was a .38 caliber shell fired from a snub nosed revolver
Obviously your experience covers an accident and not a criminal jacked up on adrenaline trying to attack someone. The two are very, very different. its very possible the criminal might not even notice a shot to the stomache before a few seconds later, at which point its a bit late.
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On January 25 2012 05:18 iNcontroL wrote:
excessive? Police are supposed to shoot to kill.. it isn't like he reloaded and unloaded on the guy again. If a cop EVER shoots it's not to stop or slow down someone or something.. it's to kill him.
i agree with there not suppose to shoot to stun, thats why they have pepper spray and tazers. why did they approach that situation with 1 tazer attempt and then shoot to kill (they shouldnt have). 3 cops there... the situation should have been resolved differently. there chief of police and mayor all need investigating. the cop that shot was trigger happy and noone there. and 10 shots is too much. the man pumped 10 rounds in a man with a stick. srsly
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It's a frickin crowbar and it barely looks dangerous. If it was a machete, or an edged weapon of sorts this would be justified, but really ? Emptying a clip at a guy at pointblank range ? This is pathetic. And here I thought police are people with at least some training at disarming or have some hand-to-hand skills to deal with situation like this. Turns out they're just your average incompetent overweight pieces of meat at the corner of the street with guns.
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On January 25 2012 06:08 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:07 Sgonzo wrote:On January 25 2012 06:05 Kokujin wrote:i live 10 minutes away from this carls jr, its usually a safe neighborhood you have to be crazy to justify the subsequent shots #6-10 when the guy is on the ground. that was an execution. ^ thank you, the hypocrasy exposed by all these police events is ridiculous, the officer who got swung at fired 5 times suspect slumps maybe doesnt fall to ground but is clearly incapacitated is not even given time to re-evaluate tha he was just shot and change his mind the second officer who clearly just was looking for oppurtunity to get his gun off fired You try being in that situation and thinking clearly when you've just shot at someone and have tons of addrenaline on your system, not every one can have a clear head in a situation like that.
the officer who didnt fire let off second string of shots he had best objective view of situation but he still was inclined to fire his weapon this is either poor training lack of intelligence or callousness with a will to do harm all of which are unnacceptable for our police.
and read all the qoutes ive seen someone shot before close range with a pistol it didnt illicit me to fire 5 rounds into him after he went down
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On January 25 2012 05:18 iNcontroL wrote:
excessive? Police are supposed to shoot to kill.. it isn't like he reloaded and unloaded on the guy again. If a cop EVER shoots it's not to stop or slow down someone or something.. it's to kill him.
Exactly this. Why else? Did the cop suddenly build up a grudge against the guy? You guys are making something out of nothing.
Now if you were to argue whether he needed to be shot and killed in the first place, I don't know what the rules are for cops in these situations, and likely, neither do you.
On January 25 2012 06:10 MassacrisM wrote:
It's a frickin crowbar and it barely looks dangerous. If it was a machete, or an edged weapon of sorts this would be justified, but really ? Emptying a clip at a guy at pointblank range ? This is pathetic. And here I thought police are people with at least some training at disarming or have some hand-to-hand skills to deal with situation like this. Turns out they're just your average incompetent overweight pieces of meat at the corner of the street with guns.
Barely looks dangerous? One clean hit to the skull and you're going unconscious and possible dead. One to the arm or the rib cage, broken bones and lots of internal bleeding, possibly dead (blunt weapons care little for Kevlar).
Again I'm sure they are instructed on the rules of engagement (when they are allowed to shoot) and either they followed them or they didn't, the amount of shots is irrelevant.
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On January 25 2012 06:10 MassacrisM wrote:
It's a frickin crowbar and it barely looks dangerous. If it was a machete, or an edged weapon of sorts this would be justified, but really ? Emptying a clip at a guy at pointblank range ? This is pathetic. And here I thought police are people with at least some training at disarming or have some hand-to-hand skills to deal with situation like this. Turns out they're just your average incompetent overweight pieces of meat at the corner of the street with guns.
On the internet, everyone is an expert.
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It's easy to criticize if the officer used too many shots when we have it on video and not at all attached to the event.
I don't think criticizing how many bullets were used is really worthwhile. It just feels like we're scrutinizing the smallest shit.
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You get hit in the head with a crowbar, there's a good chance you die.
What's more disturbing about this video is the idiotic commentary by the fuckwits filming it all. Laughing while they watch someone die. That's something special right there.
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EPT
