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Zeno is a greek philospher who thought motion is impossible. I have to write an essay to refute his argument intelligently (rationally, can't just say stuff like "wow how dumb"). I have an argument in mind but I'd like to see some more insights before I start writing. Here is his argument:
1. Zeno starts by assuming what his opponent says is possible: motion. In particular, the motion of a single body across a finite distance in a finite time.
2. To make things vivid, let’s specify the moving object, and where it is supposed to be moving: Imagine a sprinter, who starts running at one end of a 100 metre straight track, and runs to the other end. Zeno’s opponents (probably including yourself) think that it really is possible that runners can do this. (i.e. They think that it is not just an illusion.) Zeno begins by assuming that his opponents are correct, and then the fun starts.
3. Zeno points out, given that we are assuming that space is continuous, that before the runner can cover the whole 100 metres she has to cover half the distance, i.e. run 50 metres.
4. Zeno then repeats the move just made (point 4) and points out that the move can be repeated an infinite number of times: before the runner can cover 50 metres, she has to run 25, before that she must run 12.5, before that 6.25, etc. Recall that we are assuming that space is continuous, which means that any finite piece of it, such as a sprint track, can be divided into infinitely many parts, which are infinitely small.
5. Zeno then argues that to cover each of these infinitely small parts will take a certain amount of time.
6. But to take a certain amount of time an infinite number of times adds up to an infinite amount of time. So it would take the runner forever to cover 100 metres. But we were assuming that the runner could cover the distance in a finite amount of time, not that she would take forever.
7. We have run into a problem, and Zeno’s conclusion is that motion is impossible, because any finite motion would take forever.
Thoughts?
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On July 24 2005 22:54 Hydrolisko wrote:
Many times when I am driving or even a passenger in a car, I imagine a little elf-like man jumping from tree-top to tree-top right along with my car.
Thoughts?
*fixed
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Sounds like Zeno made a living out of splitting hairs
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wtf i thought this exact shit up myself years ago. Do philosophers still get paid these days?>
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This sounds much like Half Life. The part where u said that, it would take X amount of time for 50m and x amount for 25 and so on. Keeps dividing and cant get a number correct? If not, then i have no idea what you're talking about.
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he confused people into thinking that he actually had something.
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On July 24 2005 23:02 tlstmddn wrote:
wtf i thought this exact shit up myself years ago. Do philosophers still get paid these days?>
He thought of this in 500s BC, about 2500 years ago.
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wow i tought intelligent people would understand the concept of infinite IN infinites.
Ill put it in a veeeery simle way to explain it.
Imaginte an INFINITE row of 1 dollar bills, now:
Imagine an INFINITE row of 100 dollar bills, just under the 1 dolar row, 1 : 1 ratio right?
So in wich of those you have more money?, well you might think, in the $100 bill row right? but how? if you have INIFINITE money on the other one? errr... confusing?
SIMPLE, there are infinites in infinites, i cant remember the whole formula to prove it, can someone post it?
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Well, I don't know. You could just reason that the amount of time required to complete the 100m is a fixed time. Say X. Zeno argues that:
x = x/2 + x/2
x = x/2 + x/4 + x/4
x = x/2 + x/4 + x/8 + x/8
x = x/2 + x/4 + x/8 + x/16 + x/16
and that somehow the more elements you add the longer the time is, but it's always fixed.
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Jus put that he failed to realize that his conclusion isn't so much based on the fact that motion is impossible, but based on a fundamental problem of dealing with infinite numbers
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On July 24 2005 23:22 ReRebanned wrote:
Jus put that he failed to realize that his conclusion isn't so much based on the fact that motion is impossible, but based on a fundamental problem of dealing with infinite numbers
exaaaaactly!, dealing with infinite numbers is way beyond most ppl minds.
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my fist into his face.
there. i just proved his theory wrong.
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Actually, based on the assumptions that Zeno makes, his explanation IS correct and motion would be impossible. The problem however is the assumption that all space is infinitely divideable into smaller parts. At some incredibly small interval, the motion is quantized and can not be further divided.
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On July 24 2005 23:32 RoTaNiMoD wrote:
Actually, based on the assumptions that Zeno makes, his explanation IS correct and motion would be impossible. The problem however is the assumption that all space is infinitely divideable into smaller parts. At some incredibly small interval, the motion is quantized and can not be further divided.
agreed
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On July 24 2005 23:28 ahk-gosu wrote:
my fist into his face.
there. i just proved his theory wrong.
right back at ya
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Use indefinate integration?
He thought this up before invention of calculus.
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On July 24 2005 22:57 imRadu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2005 22:54 Hydrolisko wrote:
Many times when I am driving or even a passenger in a car, I imagine a little elf-like man jumping from tree-top to tree-top right along with my car.
Thoughts? *fixed
Best post ever! I seriously just laughed out loud and woke my puppies up.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On July 24 2005 22:57 imRadu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2005 22:54 Hydrolisko wrote:
Many times when I am driving or even a passenger in a car, I imagine a little elf-like man jumping from tree-top to tree-top right along with my car.
Thoughts? *fixed
WOW~!
I can't stop laughing haha ;D
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EPT
