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On December 01 2011 02:39 dementrio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:35 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:30 dementrio wrote:
guys
you suck so much at analogies
take this then. You have a brain tumor. You need $1,000,000 to heal yourself at your local hospital. Instead you go to Norway where you get health care for free. How much did you steal from your local hospital?
geez And then the local hospital closes down or starts charging exorbitant fees for simple procedures. But why did their service get so shitty? You ask. No. I ask, how much did you steal?
You stole business. The same reason home-run businesses close down because you go to Wal-Mart to get stuff cheaper: it doesn't matter if you're not stealing, you're not paying, so they don't have money. You're putting them in the red via negligence.
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It's not about lost potential income, it's about developers avoiding making PC titles in the first place, due to fear of piracy or indie studios having a problem getting anywhere at all.
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In the last ~5 years I've bought SC2, WoW TBC and WotLK, and... Thats it?
Played most of the games. Most of the were trash.
What I probably would've paid for if they wouldn't be insanely overpriced for a student are TW1 and 2, DA:O, skyrim, maybe Risen, Medieval 2, Heroes 5 was decent, dunno about that... There are probably ~5 single player games other than those that I've played for more than 5 hours and roughly 50 games that were so bad that I couldn't even finish them.
With 1:10 of the games not sucking ass, how can anyone whine about piracy? I don't care If I'm a billionaire, I refuse to pay for trash games, DLC, preorder crap etc.
On December 01 2011 02:48 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:39 dementrio wrote:On December 01 2011 02:35 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:30 dementrio wrote:
guys
you suck so much at analogies
take this then. You have a brain tumor. You need $1,000,000 to heal yourself at your local hospital. Instead you go to Norway where you get health care for free. How much did you steal from your local hospital?
geez And then the local hospital closes down or starts charging exorbitant fees for simple procedures. But why did their service get so shitty? You ask. No. I ask, how much did you steal? You stole business. The same reason home-run businesses close down because you go to Wal-Mart to get stuff cheaper: it doesn't matter if you're not stealing, you're not paying, so they don't have money. You're putting them in the red via negligence.
I have the right to choose how I spend my money. if the local hospital is shit, it's clients should move on. If your local shop can't keep up with Wal-Marts prices, it either needs to find another way of attracting the clients, or shut down. If game company is shit, it deserves the piracy.
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On December 01 2011 02:45 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:38 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:33 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:25 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:19 dementrio wrote:I have a better analogy than stealing. + Show Spoiler +it's not hard to find one, because, well, piracy isn't stealing You live in San Diego and you just turned 21. You go party hard in Mexico, where a bottle of tequila costs $10. The same bottle in the US costs $20, because there is heavy tax on alcohol thanks to the liberal media. You drink a bottle and come back for the hangover. How much did you steal from the US government? That's not a good analogy, because you're still paying for the service. If I could find the same game in two places, but one charged me $20 dollars less, it's still a sale. A better analogy is this. You have a magic gun that lets you clone anything you shoot with it. You walk onto a car dealership. You shoot a Camaro. You drive off in a brand new Camaro that you didn't pay for, but the one you cloned is still there. Is this stealing a car? Yeah. Yeah it fucking is. No, it's not. The owner of the original car still has it. You took a car that wasn't created and/or paid for by him in any capacity. #1 bad analogy. Alright, now what's to prevent 1000 people from walking on to the lot and doing the same thing? The going price of the 2011 Camaro is ~$35k. That's $35,000,000 worth of car that's driving out without being paid for. Oh look, the Camaro isn't being made anymore! But why? I still want a new Camaro even if I don't pay for it! Well you see, you fucking need to pay people for a service, or they're not going to keep making products because there's no revenue in it. How many pirates do you think are out there? Lol... if I clone a Camaro that goes at $35000, that's not $35000 lost for the company, since I can't afford it anyway. Now, with cars, there's a multitue of price ranges and different types, etc. So I'm able to afford a car. True, it's not as good as the Camaro, but it works. With computer games, however, I'm stuck with paying 60 Euro for a product, that I will add, costs 30 Euro in Finland (which I only found out today, thanks to this thread) - a country in which, a person at minimum wage earns 10 times what a person in my country does. It is $35000 wasted for the company though. Why should they even bother making cars when they won't sell? Again, this doesn't work for gaming because the games don't disappear, but the point still stands. Why do you spend time and money making a game that a good chunk of the people aren't going to pay for? You'll just run yourself broke that way.
Do you even read what I write?
People that pirate games can't afford them, due to poor pricing in most of the cases. If pirating was impossible, they still wouldn't have bought them. You can't magically wish more money into existance.
Actually, why am I wasting my time on a troll....
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On December 01 2011 02:48 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:39 dementrio wrote:On December 01 2011 02:35 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:30 dementrio wrote:
guys
you suck so much at analogies
take this then. You have a brain tumor. You need $1,000,000 to heal yourself at your local hospital. Instead you go to Norway where you get health care for free. How much did you steal from your local hospital?
geez And then the local hospital closes down or starts charging exorbitant fees for simple procedures. But why did their service get so shitty? You ask. No. I ask, how much did you steal? You stole business. The same reason home-run businesses close down because you go to Wal-Mart to get stuff cheaper: it doesn't matter if you're not stealing, you're not paying, so they don't have money. You're putting them in the red via negligence.
Now that's a completely different issue. By your logic, we should buy Torchlight and boycott Diablo 3 because one is made by a massive company and one isn't.
What does that have to do with this issue?
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To look at this in a different view. Lets say your house is on the market to sell. And lets say I am looking to buy a house. So according to a lot of "logic" in this thread, it would be completely acceptable for me to move into your house and "Try it out" and "see if I like it" before I determine if I even really want to buy your house.
Isn't that the same concept being used to rationalize pirating any software?
Plan and simple, your stealing if you pirate. The "Well they have a lot of money anyways. They don't need my money." line is so full of crap. Developers need money to keep production going. Developers need money to pay the bills to keep programmers employed. These companies need money to pay their employees, so they can feed their kids. Oh course most people don't care about other people. Not really. Our (U.S.) society is so based on individualism that we worry only about "me and mine." So if a family suffers due to millions of pirates, those pirates don't care. They don't know the people at the gaming company or developers. Its much easier to hurt someone you don't know and well never know. I'm sure some of you are rolling your eyes and saying "No way does my $60 affect a persons family." Lets say it's 3 million copies of a game (retails at $60) are pirated. That's how much? $18 million. Now take into account all the costs to create, develop, market, distribute the game. So now that $18 million can't be used by the company now. And the company actually doesn't have enough money to produce more content for that game, can't secure future investors to help fund a new project. People get fired, to "streamline" the production. And eventually the company ceases. Of course this is an extreme example, but it's not that far off from the truth.
Piracy in my opinion boils down to one thing.... People don't want to work for what they want. People want things given to them with as little output of effort given. "You supply me because I'm "owed" something for everything I have to deal with." I think this is because of the period of capitalism we are in. The U.S.(along with much of Europe) is a fully developed country and has become a consumer state. Goods aren't produced in the U.S. like they were in the 40s, 50, 60s. Therefore the children of the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s expect that all things are easily accumulated. They days of "doing an honest day's work for an honest day's pay" are completely gone. Getting the most pay for the least amount of work is the norm in most industrial countries (in my opinion). So this ends up leading to many downfalls of society, piracy being just one of the visible. Taking what isn't mine and using it for my own purposes, simply because I want it. No one is making anyone purchase any game, music, photoshop, etc. If you want to know if something is good...Ask. The internet is a big wide world where you can find opinions and critiques on anything. And if your already on TL, you should certainly be able to find other sites to find the information you are looking for. If you really want something, you'll work for it.
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On December 01 2011 02:45 MiningSchuhu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:39 StatX wrote:
Personally, I see a constant connection to the internet a good way to begin war on piracy.
Also, with the popularity of software like Steam which provides you with automated patches and easy access to purchase thousands of games, it gives programmers a feeling of security since Steam requires a constant connection as well as being registered. Furthermore, many requires a subscription to their game too meaning double registration.
I see this as an easy for smaller companies to provide their services with some security features without needing to invest money in it. You do realize that the "constant connection"-protection is bypassed with a copy&paste crack?
It's not perfect but it does reduce it.
Furthermore, if it doesn,t work, we all know Blizzard will take it a step further again the next time orthey may just stop making games.
People say they make millions which is true but one needs to remember they invest millions of dollars too. If at the end of the year they made 12 millions on sales for a gamebut had to spend 10.5 millions and lost 4.5 millions to piracy, they may still shutdown operations because the invest/reward balance is broken and will most likely prevent investors to invest since the return on investment is too low.
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On December 01 2011 02:43 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:37 MrTortoise wrote:
If the thread is about reducing piracy then ther is a need to establish that it is actually a problem
Here is a question
How is piracy harming you?
The game, music and film industries are larger than ever. They are doing great ... sure the big ones that invbested in now out of date technology infrastructure are fucked but really how doe sthat harm YOU?
it doesnt piracy helps you, why the hell are you trying to help the interestes of multi billion dollar companies that want *your* money?
Piracy is great. If everyone was allowed to pirate everything they needed then a lot of inequality would vanish.
a $20 game in us maybe cheap but if you goto poland its relatively a lot more (or used to be dunno abotu now) This is the victimless crime syndrome. Look at the movie The Perfect Score (not a great movie, but good for this example). If you cheat on your SAT, and get into a good college knowing that you don't belong there, and your attendance didn't prevent someone else from going, would you cheat to get a higher score? You're not hurting anyone, right? No. It's still wrong. And while you might say that this thread isn't about moral issues and is about DRM and what not, it is a moral issue, because that's all you can talk about as far as this goes.
sorry i dont understand right and wrong
You see they are broken. If you cared about right and wrong you would be solving homelessness and starvation ... you dont. So really you are only using them selectivley.
Ie right and wrong are really luxuaries of the rich. You want me to watch a 2 hour movie just to understand a point you made? Sorry mate but ai really dont care that much - explain it and i will read.
If you cheat on your tests at school yes you will get a good grade .. the problem is when you then try and work for a living you will be fucked. Stop making crappy analogies and argue the point.
Im not saying its a victimless crime, im sayign the software industry is where it is BECAUSE of piracy. why do you think id software are heralded as gods? because EVERYBODY played doom as it was shareware then EVERYONE played doom2 then EVERYONE played quake, then EVERYONE played quake2 because there was a good demo.
Now people dont do that ... so we pirate. They lose for not knowing about market segmentation.
Also i wasnt arguing for a victimless crime ... im sayign the cost of the crime is almost zero to the industry and is zero for you. Moreover why are you trying to use an abstract concept with no reference to reality to argue my point which is very much rooted in reality.
Why dont you want more stuff for free?
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On November 30 2011 23:12 Nevermind86 wrote:
I would have been an average piece of shit person from my country, drinking beer every weekend, being fat and have 0 culture. You know what made me different? The internet. I downloaded so many movies and videogames I actually learned some decent english that then I used to read classic books like 1984 for free. Without the internet I would have been nothing because all these accesible culture really made me a whole lot different from the people around and I feel proud. Take down piracy and you take down a huge part of human culture too, just for some guys to make a few bucks because the people that really download things are from the third world and we don't have the money to pay even 5$, because our jobs pay 150$ a month, we barely fucking survive.
There are not enough people quoting you. You are absolutely right.
I live in a richer country then yours. Yet it is still third-world, as most of the world is. The middle class (which would correspond to poor people in the first world) and the poor sometimes figure out a way to pay for a computer and internet, because they have multiple uses, but are we going to pay for games?
I have an excelent paid job. I make 3000 reais a month (about 2000 dollars). Starcraft 2 costed me 100 reais (equivalent to US' $59). It kinda hurted my wallet thou. And Blizzard had done an excellent job, launching the game in Brazil for a price that's equivalent of the US. The games are generally MORE here because of taxes.
(That's why Starcraft 2 is the only new game I own)
My dad makes like three times what I earn a month. Even so, all of my little brother's PS2 games are pirated. How the hell is my father gonna pay 150 reais in each game the boy wants? Nein nein nein, there is no way.
If someone argues, your father makes so much money (he does), he can get other kinds of enterntainment for you brother if he wants to, there is no excuse for pirating games, or music, or movies, or whatever - I'd agree to that. But most people pirate because its the only way they can have access to entertainment. You may find this surreal, but I know a lot of 40-yo people who had never watched a movie in a theater in their whole lives. And Im talking about urban poor people, not starving countrysiders.
Just how many of those 4.5 million downloads were from South America, India, China and Africa? Ethical issues apart, how many of those people would buy the game if they had to?
PS: Buying a game to support a company is a hardcore gamer thing. Casual gamers just don't understand/don't care. Its not even related to procrastination, they just stealed it, play half or the whole of it and delete it.
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On December 01 2011 02:47 jtype wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:38 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:33 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:25 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:19 dementrio wrote:I have a better analogy than stealing. + Show Spoiler +it's not hard to find one, because, well, piracy isn't stealing You live in San Diego and you just turned 21. You go party hard in Mexico, where a bottle of tequila costs $10. The same bottle in the US costs $20, because there is heavy tax on alcohol thanks to the liberal media. You drink a bottle and come back for the hangover. How much did you steal from the US government? That's not a good analogy, because you're still paying for the service. If I could find the same game in two places, but one charged me $20 dollars less, it's still a sale. A better analogy is this. You have a magic gun that lets you clone anything you shoot with it. You walk onto a car dealership. You shoot a Camaro. You drive off in a brand new Camaro that you didn't pay for, but the one you cloned is still there. Is this stealing a car? Yeah. Yeah it fucking is. No, it's not. The owner of the original car still has it. You took a car that wasn't created and/or paid for by him in any capacity. #1 bad analogy. Alright, now what's to prevent 1000 people from walking on to the lot and doing the same thing? The going price of the 2011 Camaro is ~$35k. That's $35,000,000 worth of car that's driving out without being paid for. Oh look, the Camaro isn't being made anymore! But why? I still want a new Camaro even if I don't pay for it! Well you see, you fucking need to pay people for a service, or they're not going to keep making products because there's no revenue in it. How many pirates do you think are out there? Lol... if I clone a Camaro that goes at $35000, that's not $35000 lost for the company, since I can't afford it anyway. Now, with cars, there's a multitue of price ranges and different types, etc. So I'm able to afford a car. True, it's not as good as the Camaro, but it works. With computer games, however, I'm stuck with paying 60 Euro for a product, that I will add, costs 30 Euro in Finland (which I only found out today, thanks to this thread) - a country in which, a person at minimum wage earns 10 times what a person in my country does. It is $35000 wasted for the company though. Why should they even bother making cars when they won't sell? Again, this doesn't work for gaming because the games don't disappear, but the point still stands. Why do you spend time and money making a game that a good chunk of the people aren't going to pay for? You'll just run yourself broke that way. How is it wasted? Did a person who would otherwise buy the car, not buy it? Will that car never be sold at all? I don't quite know how you're drawing these conclusions.
It costs months to years and billions of dollars to design a car. It costs thousands of dollars to build said car. That money is gained back by selling.
When you make a product, you are FAR in the red. You expect sales to bring you back to profit. By choosing to not pay, you are keeping them in the red.
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On December 01 2011 02:48 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:39 dementrio wrote:On December 01 2011 02:35 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:30 dementrio wrote:
guys
you suck so much at analogies
take this then. You have a brain tumor. You need $1,000,000 to heal yourself at your local hospital. Instead you go to Norway where you get health care for free. How much did you steal from your local hospital?
geez And then the local hospital closes down or starts charging exorbitant fees for simple procedures. But why did their service get so shitty? You ask. No. I ask, how much did you steal? You stole business. The same reason home-run businesses close down because you go to Wal-Mart to get stuff cheaper: it doesn't matter if you're not stealing, you're not paying, so they don't have money. You're putting them in the red via negligence.
AHA! so you're not stealing. PIRACY IS NOT STEALING. If it doesn't matter, why do you keep to call it stealing?
Because stealing is a crime. Going to wal-mart is not. It does matter after all.
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On December 01 2011 02:03 NukeTheStars wrote:
The percentage of people who pirate something and then purchase it right afterward is very small.
Care to quote a scientific research on the matter?
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 02:49 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:38 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:33 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:25 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:19 dementrio wrote:I have a better analogy than stealing. + Show Spoiler +it's not hard to find one, because, well, piracy isn't stealing You live in San Diego and you just turned 21. You go party hard in Mexico, where a bottle of tequila costs $10. The same bottle in the US costs $20, because there is heavy tax on alcohol thanks to the liberal media. You drink a bottle and come back for the hangover. How much did you steal from the US government? That's not a good analogy, because you're still paying for the service. If I could find the same game in two places, but one charged me $20 dollars less, it's still a sale. A better analogy is this. You have a magic gun that lets you clone anything you shoot with it. You walk onto a car dealership. You shoot a Camaro. You drive off in a brand new Camaro that you didn't pay for, but the one you cloned is still there. Is this stealing a car? Yeah. Yeah it fucking is. No, it's not. The owner of the original car still has it. You took a car that wasn't created and/or paid for by him in any capacity. #1 bad analogy. Alright, now what's to prevent 1000 people from walking on to the lot and doing the same thing? The going price of the 2011 Camaro is ~$35k. That's $35,000,000 worth of car that's driving out without being paid for. Oh look, the Camaro isn't being made anymore! But why? I still want a new Camaro even if I don't pay for it! Well you see, you fucking need to pay people for a service, or they're not going to keep making products because there's no revenue in it. How many pirates do you think are out there? Lol... if I clone a Camaro that goes at $35000, that's not $35000 lost for the company, since I can't afford it anyway. Now, with cars, there's a multitue of price ranges and different types, etc. So I'm able to afford a car. True, it's not as good as the Camaro, but it works. With computer games, however, I'm stuck with paying 60 Euro for a product, that I will add, costs 30 Euro in Finland (which I only found out today, thanks to this thread) - a country in which, a person at minimum wage earns 10 times what a person in my country does. It is $35000 wasted for the company though. Why should they even bother making cars when they won't sell? Again, this doesn't work for gaming because the games don't disappear, but the point still stands. Why do you spend time and money making a game that a good chunk of the people aren't going to pay for? You'll just run yourself broke that way. Do you even read what I write? People that pirate games can't afford them, due to poor pricing in most of the cases. If pirating was impossible, they still wouldn't have bought them. You can't magically wish more money into existance.
Stop throwing out absolutes. Yes, some people who pirate stuff wouldn't be able to buy if they wanted to. There are others though who simply don't want to pay. As well as people who want a good demo, or are 'making a statement'. So again, stop posting absolutes as to why pirating happens - there are a variety of reasons.
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On December 01 2011 02:52 HereAndNow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:47 jtype wrote:On December 01 2011 02:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:38 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:33 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:25 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:19 dementrio wrote:I have a better analogy than stealing. + Show Spoiler +it's not hard to find one, because, well, piracy isn't stealing You live in San Diego and you just turned 21. You go party hard in Mexico, where a bottle of tequila costs $10. The same bottle in the US costs $20, because there is heavy tax on alcohol thanks to the liberal media. You drink a bottle and come back for the hangover. How much did you steal from the US government? That's not a good analogy, because you're still paying for the service. If I could find the same game in two places, but one charged me $20 dollars less, it's still a sale. A better analogy is this. You have a magic gun that lets you clone anything you shoot with it. You walk onto a car dealership. You shoot a Camaro. You drive off in a brand new Camaro that you didn't pay for, but the one you cloned is still there. Is this stealing a car? Yeah. Yeah it fucking is. No, it's not. The owner of the original car still has it. You took a car that wasn't created and/or paid for by him in any capacity. #1 bad analogy. Alright, now what's to prevent 1000 people from walking on to the lot and doing the same thing? The going price of the 2011 Camaro is ~$35k. That's $35,000,000 worth of car that's driving out without being paid for. Oh look, the Camaro isn't being made anymore! But why? I still want a new Camaro even if I don't pay for it! Well you see, you fucking need to pay people for a service, or they're not going to keep making products because there's no revenue in it. How many pirates do you think are out there? Lol... if I clone a Camaro that goes at $35000, that's not $35000 lost for the company, since I can't afford it anyway. Now, with cars, there's a multitue of price ranges and different types, etc. So I'm able to afford a car. True, it's not as good as the Camaro, but it works. With computer games, however, I'm stuck with paying 60 Euro for a product, that I will add, costs 30 Euro in Finland (which I only found out today, thanks to this thread) - a country in which, a person at minimum wage earns 10 times what a person in my country does. It is $35000 wasted for the company though. Why should they even bother making cars when they won't sell? Again, this doesn't work for gaming because the games don't disappear, but the point still stands. Why do you spend time and money making a game that a good chunk of the people aren't going to pay for? You'll just run yourself broke that way. How is it wasted? Did a person who would otherwise buy the car, not buy it? Will that car never be sold at all? I don't quite know how you're drawing these conclusions. It costs months to years and billions of dollars to design a car. It costs thousands of dollars to build said car. That money is gained back by selling. When you make a product, you are FAR in the red. You expect sales to bring you back to profit. By choosing to not pay, you are keeping them in the red.
So we should buy everything from everyone?
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I think developers should try releasing demos that lets you play like 20% of the game. the usual demo doesn't even come close to letting you know how it will play... and if its a good game then people will be enticed to buying after trying it to finish the story
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On December 01 2011 02:49 Mammel wrote:
In the last ~5 years I've bought SC2, WoW TBC and WotLK, and... Thats it?
Played most of the games. Most of the were trash.
What I probably would've paid for if they wouldn't be insanely overpriced for a student are TW1 and 2, DA:O, skyrim, maybe Risen, Medieval 2, Heroes 5 was decent, dunno about that... There are probably ~5 single player games other than those that I've played for more than 5 hours and roughly 50 games that were so bad that I couldn't even finish them.
With 1:10 of the games not sucking ass, how can anyone whine about piracy? I don't care If I'm a billionaire, I refuse to pay for trash games, DLC, preorder crap etc.
That's the other lame excuse. I tried it didn't like it, won't pay. Or the fact they're too expensive, wtf? Cars a fucking expensive too, but you don't use that as an excuse to steal it do you?
Nor do you demand money back after trying the new doctor pepper flavour?
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On December 01 2011 02:52 dementrio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:48 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:39 dementrio wrote:On December 01 2011 02:35 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:30 dementrio wrote:
guys
you suck so much at analogies
take this then. You have a brain tumor. You need $1,000,000 to heal yourself at your local hospital. Instead you go to Norway where you get health care for free. How much did you steal from your local hospital?
geez And then the local hospital closes down or starts charging exorbitant fees for simple procedures. But why did their service get so shitty? You ask. No. I ask, how much did you steal? You stole business. The same reason home-run businesses close down because you go to Wal-Mart to get stuff cheaper: it doesn't matter if you're not stealing, you're not paying, so they don't have money. You're putting them in the red via negligence. AHA! so you're not stealing. PIRACY IS NOT STEALING. If it doesn't matter, why do you keep to call it stealing? Because stealing is a crime. Going to wal-mart is not. It does matter after all.
I was playign poker last night ... i has a flush on the flop ... then the turn came and i lost the pot ... it was stolen from me.
Looking at ideals and aiming for them is great ... but they are just hypotheticals to attempt to measure total possible size fo a market ... economics really isnt a science ... to then attempt to say the market is the size you calculated woudl be like saying that all of physics is a realist description of the world. Maybe it is, maybe it isnt ... who knows ... but the world behaves liek the world and physics tries to copy it. velocity is not speed over time and gravity is not an attractive force proportional to mass and inversley proportional to the square of the distance .. however they are our best attempts to understand it ... but dont ever think it IS those equations.
Its like atoms and electrons and visible representations of them ... that is NOT what they are like that is simply the representation of a psecific kind of signal usually the interation of the photon.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 02:53 jtype wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:52 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:47 jtype wrote:On December 01 2011 02:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:38 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:33 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:25 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:19 dementrio wrote:I have a better analogy than stealing. + Show Spoiler +it's not hard to find one, because, well, piracy isn't stealing You live in San Diego and you just turned 21. You go party hard in Mexico, where a bottle of tequila costs $10. The same bottle in the US costs $20, because there is heavy tax on alcohol thanks to the liberal media. You drink a bottle and come back for the hangover. How much did you steal from the US government? That's not a good analogy, because you're still paying for the service. If I could find the same game in two places, but one charged me $20 dollars less, it's still a sale. A better analogy is this. You have a magic gun that lets you clone anything you shoot with it. You walk onto a car dealership. You shoot a Camaro. You drive off in a brand new Camaro that you didn't pay for, but the one you cloned is still there. Is this stealing a car? Yeah. Yeah it fucking is. No, it's not. The owner of the original car still has it. You took a car that wasn't created and/or paid for by him in any capacity. #1 bad analogy. Alright, now what's to prevent 1000 people from walking on to the lot and doing the same thing? The going price of the 2011 Camaro is ~$35k. That's $35,000,000 worth of car that's driving out without being paid for. Oh look, the Camaro isn't being made anymore! But why? I still want a new Camaro even if I don't pay for it! Well you see, you fucking need to pay people for a service, or they're not going to keep making products because there's no revenue in it. How many pirates do you think are out there? Lol... if I clone a Camaro that goes at $35000, that's not $35000 lost for the company, since I can't afford it anyway. Now, with cars, there's a multitue of price ranges and different types, etc. So I'm able to afford a car. True, it's not as good as the Camaro, but it works. With computer games, however, I'm stuck with paying 60 Euro for a product, that I will add, costs 30 Euro in Finland (which I only found out today, thanks to this thread) - a country in which, a person at minimum wage earns 10 times what a person in my country does. It is $35000 wasted for the company though. Why should they even bother making cars when they won't sell? Again, this doesn't work for gaming because the games don't disappear, but the point still stands. Why do you spend time and money making a game that a good chunk of the people aren't going to pay for? You'll just run yourself broke that way. How is it wasted? Did a person who would otherwise buy the car, not buy it? Will that car never be sold at all? I don't quite know how you're drawing these conclusions. It costs months to years and billions of dollars to design a car. It costs thousands of dollars to build said car. That money is gained back by selling. When you make a product, you are FAR in the red. You expect sales to bring you back to profit. By choosing to not pay, you are keeping them in the red. So we should buy everything from everyone?
No, but you should pay for products that you use if they're not intended to be free.
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On December 01 2011 02:49 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 02:45 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:38 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:33 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:25 Nikon wrote:On December 01 2011 02:22 HereAndNow wrote:On December 01 2011 02:19 dementrio wrote:I have a better analogy than stealing. + Show Spoiler +it's not hard to find one, because, well, piracy isn't stealing You live in San Diego and you just turned 21. You go party hard in Mexico, where a bottle of tequila costs $10. The same bottle in the US costs $20, because there is heavy tax on alcohol thanks to the liberal media. You drink a bottle and come back for the hangover. How much did you steal from the US government? That's not a good analogy, because you're still paying for the service. If I could find the same game in two places, but one charged me $20 dollars less, it's still a sale. A better analogy is this. You have a magic gun that lets you clone anything you shoot with it. You walk onto a car dealership. You shoot a Camaro. You drive off in a brand new Camaro that you didn't pay for, but the one you cloned is still there. Is this stealing a car? Yeah. Yeah it fucking is. No, it's not. The owner of the original car still has it. You took a car that wasn't created and/or paid for by him in any capacity. #1 bad analogy. Alright, now what's to prevent 1000 people from walking on to the lot and doing the same thing? The going price of the 2011 Camaro is ~$35k. That's $35,000,000 worth of car that's driving out without being paid for. Oh look, the Camaro isn't being made anymore! But why? I still want a new Camaro even if I don't pay for it! Well you see, you fucking need to pay people for a service, or they're not going to keep making products because there's no revenue in it. How many pirates do you think are out there? Lol... if I clone a Camaro that goes at $35000, that's not $35000 lost for the company, since I can't afford it anyway. Now, with cars, there's a multitue of price ranges and different types, etc. So I'm able to afford a car. True, it's not as good as the Camaro, but it works. With computer games, however, I'm stuck with paying 60 Euro for a product, that I will add, costs 30 Euro in Finland (which I only found out today, thanks to this thread) - a country in which, a person at minimum wage earns 10 times what a person in my country does. It is $35000 wasted for the company though. Why should they even bother making cars when they won't sell? Again, this doesn't work for gaming because the games don't disappear, but the point still stands. Why do you spend time and money making a game that a good chunk of the people aren't going to pay for? You'll just run yourself broke that way. Do you even read what I write? People that pirate games can't afford them, due to poor pricing in most of the cases. If pirating was impossible, they still wouldn't have bought them. You can't magically wish more money into existance. Actually, why am I wasting my time on a troll....
Dude, shut the fuck up. If you really think every pirate is just some poor kid who really likes games but can't afford them, you're deluding yourself. A lot, if not most, are people who have enough income but are too cheap or lazy to buy the game. Pirating isn't saving the starving children in Africa, it's mostly douchebags.
User was warned for this post
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Not once in the OP did it mention that TW2 also sold over 1 Million copies. Which is pretty good for being a single player PC exclusive.
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EPT
