EPTCombating piracy - Page 5
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Garnet
Vietnam9034 Posts
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SoLaR[i.C]
United States2969 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:26 Myles wrote: Good way to prevent sharing legal information as well. Talk about a cutting off ones nose to spite the face. The 0.01% of torrents that constitute actual legal material are always available on academic journal repositories, indie publisher/artist webpages, and through sites like Wikipedia. Don't kid yourself by equating piracy with some global sharing of information for the good of mankind. It's young folks with no regard for the livelihood of others who refuse to pay for stuff because they are removed from seeing the implications of their stealing. I will actively vote for any legislation blocking torrents sites. | ||
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Clearout
Norway1060 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:36 daemir wrote: Minecraft is the perfect example of that.If the indie game designers game is truely an amazing piece of work, people will buy it. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:43 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: The 0.01% of torrents that constitute actual legal material are always available on academic journal repositories, indie publisher/artist webpages, and through sites like Wikipedia. Don't kid yourself by equating piracy with some global sharing of information for the good of mankind. It's young folks with no regard for the livelihood of others who refuse to pay for stuff because they are removed from seeing the implications of their stealing. I will actively vote for any legislation blocking torrents sites. Trust me, I'm not confusing piracy with the sharing of information, but stopping p2p won't stop pirating and will harm legal sharing, even if it constitutes a small amount of whats actually shared. I will never support a measure such as that. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:39 Ian Ian Ian wrote: ...thats fucking bullshit lol. Piracy will eventually change the video game scene alot though. Developers are accustomed to making shitloads of money, they will do something, like the OP said. DLC, subscribe games, etc, are already becoming way more common Well, good thing there's anecdotal evidence showing that DRM, subscribe games, forced online, and limited access to games in all forms REDUCE sales even more than what piracy does. Also, I've pirated ~20 games in the past 12 months. I've bought 16 of them. I wouldn't have bought them otherwise, as I believe I have the right to try out a game before I am forced to spend $60 on it. That's the mentality of a lot of "pirates." I know my friend pirated a game because the fucking DRM on it said he had to rebuy the game he BOUGHT because he reinstalled his OS. I've pirated games that I've bought in the past and couldn't find the disc or couldn't remember the passwords to the accounts that they were on. There are hundreds of reasons for piracy, a lot are legitimate. A lot are assholes and just doing it because they're lazy or greedy. Nonetheless, there is proof in the numbers that DRM in all shapes and sizes only hurts the game more than if they didn't have it. Systems like Gabe Newell describes in the video I linked last page improve sales, with his analogy to the issue in Russia. Putting all forms of piracy under the umbrella of "GREEDY CHILDREN WHO DONT WANT TO BUY GAMES" is extremely immature. It's just as much fault of the service the developer provides as it is the customers fault. It's hilarious how people think that we should, as a community, pay $60 for every game that looks remotely interesting to us with no way to try it out previously and have to rebuy it every time we break their arbitrary rules on their DRM, allow intrusive spyware onto our computer to scan it, and generally get total shit service. Give us good service and we pay for games, it's that simple. Ubisoft is the prime example of how NOT to handle piracy. A game is released with such ridiculous DRM that it takes ~40 minutes just to get started on the game and basically makes it impossible to play the game you BOUGHT, but if you apply a 20mb crack to it instead, you don't have to do ANY of that stupid crap and you're set for life. Which one would you choose? The choice is clear. When developers and producers provide good service, people buy their service. When they provide shitty service, we pirate their service. It's that fucking simple. It blows my mind that people are actually encouraging developers to provide them with less and shittier service in the name of stopping something that isn't even an issue when something is handled correcty. | ||
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:24 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: I'm hoping that alll major Internet providers enact blockades that simply don't allow access to torrent/p2p sites. It's the only way to stop stealing on such a large scale. On December 01 2011 01:43 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: The 0.01% of torrents that constitute actual legal material are always available on academic journal repositories, indie publisher/artist webpages, and through sites like Wikipedia. Don't kid yourself by equating piracy with some global sharing of information for the good of mankind. It's young folks with no regard for the livelihood of others who refuse to pay for stuff because they are removed from seeing the implications of their stealing. I will actively vote for any legislation blocking torrents sites. Man, you're really uninformed... I mean, I just realised that Activison actually STOLE 30 Euro from me, since I got a boxed set of SC2 on release - which just happens to be available at half price in another country at the same point of time. Just for clarification, the wages in said country are at least 10 times higher than in mine. Somehow in your mind, however, they're the victim. Surely, I'm a young folk with no regards of other's livelyhood. Not only that they make an infinitely larger amounts of money than I could hope to make, but they also employ pant-on-head retarded pricing schemes, which actually steal from ME. On December 01 2011 01:53 Requizen wrote: That's bullshit and you know it. I have a somewhat normal income (upper middle class whatever), I love to ski. Lift tickets are fucking expensive ($70+ a day in Summit County in Colorado). I go skiing once or twice a year, because I know it gets more expensive than I can afford to go out there, get a place to stay, ski, eat, etc. If something doesn't fit in your budget, sorry. Be realistic, not a pirate. How much do you make per month? Tell me, and I'll tell you how much I make as well. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:42 Garnet wrote: Same price for everyone makes poor people become pirates. That's bullshit and you know it. I have a somewhat normal income (upper middle class whatever), I love to ski. Lift tickets are fucking expensive ($70+ a day in Summit County in Colorado). I go skiing once or twice a year, because I know it gets more expensive than I can afford to go out there, get a place to stay, ski, eat, etc. If something doesn't fit in your budget, sorry. Be realistic, not a pirate. | ||
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subzer0
67 Posts
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HereAndNow
United States185 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:49 Fruscainte wrote: Well, good thing there's anecdotal evidence showing that DRM, subscribe games, forced online, and limited access to games in all forms REDUCE sales even more than what piracy does. Also, I've pirated ~20 games in the past 12 months. I've bought 16 of them. I wouldn't have bought them otherwise, as I believe I have the right to try out a game before I am forced to spend $60 on it. That's the mentality of a lot of "pirates." I know my friend pirated a game because the fucking DRM on it said he had to rebuy the game he BOUGHT because he reinstalled his OS. I've pirated games that I've bought in the past and couldn't find the disc or couldn't remember the passwords to the accounts that they were on. There are hundreds of reasons for piracy, a lot are legitimate. A lot are assholes and just doing it because they're lazy or greedy. Nonetheless, there is proof in the numbers that DRM in all shapes and sizes only hurts the game more than if they didn't have it. Systems like Gabe Newell describes in the video I linked last page improve sales, with his analogy to the issue in Russia. Putting all forms of piracy under the umbrella of "GREEDY CHILDREN WHO DONT WANT TO BUY GAMES" is extremely immature. It's just as much fault of the service the developer provides as it is the customers fault. It's hilarious how people think that we should, as a community, pay $60 for every game that looks remotely interesting to us with no way to try it out previously and have to rebuy it every time we break their arbitrary rules on their DRM, allow intrusive spyware onto our computer to scan it, and generally get total shit service. Give us good service and we pay for games, it's that simple. Ubisoft is the prime example of how NOT to handle piracy. A game is released with such ridiculous DRM that it takes ~40 minutes just to get started on the game and basically makes it impossible to play the game you BOUGHT, but if you apply a 20mb crack to it instead, you don't have to do ANY of that stupid crap and you're set for life. Which one would you choose? The choice is clear. When developers and producers provide good service, people buy their service. When they provide shitty service, we pirate their service. It's that fucking simple. Likewise, putting all piracy under the umbrella of "internet heroes who just want to try games before buying" is extremely misinformed, or blinding yourself to the truth. For every person that pirates to try-before-I-buy, there are a hundred who just pirate because they don't want to pay. There are a large amount of ways to try a game without pirating. You could play a friend's version, try a demo on some games, have a Gamefly/Blockbuster account, use Redbox, hit the demo stands at your local retailer. Stop pretending you're saving the game industry by pirating. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:57 subzer0 wrote: Anyone trying to justify or defend piracy is a scumbag. Its exactly the same as walking into a store and stealing music, movies, or videogames. It is fundamentally wrong, but more or less completely free from prosecution. This is exactly the form of complete ignorance of the situation and total misinformation provided that lets the shit that developers are trying to pull on their paying customers go unhindered. Want to know how to "combat piracy"? Provide good service. Provide a good service and people will buy your shit. That's just the fact of life. If you are releasing shit that only hurts those whom buy the game, people are going to "steal" them (even though comparing downloading a digital representation of something is laughable to compare to walking into a store and taking something tangible.) | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:58 HereAndNow wrote: Likewise, putting all piracy under the umbrella of "internet heroes who just want to try games before buying" On December 01 2011 01:49 Fruscainte wrote: A lot are assholes and just doing it because they're lazy or greedy. ...Yeah about that. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:30 Krikkitone wrote: The "I pirated it and then bought it" model Could be used by the industry... but only if buying it gives the consumer something they wouldn't have otherwise. No. This assumes that pirates are evil and simply want to use something for free, while in reality pirates either can't afford buying it in the first place (in which case offering extra stuff won't change anything) or pirate the product before buying it because they want to be sure of its quality (a perfecly reasonable motive, considering how much is given for PR and shiny trailers and that the critics only post good reviews). There's also a lot of people who are in a situation that is a combination of the two: for example you can only afford 2 games but are interested in 5, so you pirate all five and then buy the two you like the most. | ||
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NukeTheStars
United States277 Posts
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Playguuu
United States926 Posts
On November 30 2011 23:46 nihlon wrote: I do agree with some above me that the lack of proper demo's are a problem. Either the game is gimped to the point where you can't get a decent feel for the game, or like in many cases of games I've been interested in, there is no demo at all. As for DRM, they are not bad in themselves only bad when they are poorly implemented. Yeah what ever happened to demos? I know they exist in some cases, but as you stated, they are horribly gimped or don't exist. I remember going onto gamespy or fileplanet to check out the demos for worms, driving games that I'd never buy typically, or quake - having a good time with them and picking up the game. Even guest passes or trials aren't really around much anymore. On a sidenote, stuff like Driver San Francisco or Skyrim, games I'd never be into or consider buying (since I didn't play their predecessors), I've been pleasantly surprised by and ended up buying. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
I do encourage you to watch Gabe Newell's take on it, since it got lost away in the spam last page. It really makes a good point on not defending piracy, which is not what I'm doing, but rather explaining how it can be logically reduced without using intrusive forms of DRM. 1:05 in. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On December 01 2011 02:00 Fruscainte wrote: This is exactly the form of complete ignorance of the situation and total misinformation provided that lets the shit that developers are trying to pull on their paying customers go unhindered. Want to know how to "combat piracy"? Provide good service. Provide a good service and people will buy your shit. That's just the fact of life. If you are releasing shit that only hurts those whom buy the game, people are going to "steal" them (even though comparing downloading a digital representation of something is laughable to compare to walking into a store and taking something tangible.) No, that's dumb. DRM and online-only were put in place BECAUSE people were pirating shit. If you don't like the way the service works now, well tough, that's what your actions caused in the first place. And don't use the "piracy isn't the same thing as theft" argument. There is no physical object other than data for PC games anymore, as everyone downloads their PC games from Steam/whatever. In essence, you're getting the exact same thing without paying the provider, which is stealing. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
You probably don't want that to happen though. It basically means turning everything into an iphone which can't be jailbreaked. The alternative of blocking "torrent sites" also works in a similar fashion. There will always be workarounds unless you block everything except a list of explicitly allowed internet services. | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
On December 01 2011 02:04 Requizen wrote: No, that's dumb. DRM and online-only were put in place BECAUSE people were pirating shit. And yet it doesn't stop it at all and only hurts the buyers, causing even MORE people to pirate the game because they dont' want to deal with intrusive programs. See how that works? You'll never remove piracy. However, DRM only hurts it more. Every game gets cracked, and pirates still continue to play. And when buyers are stuck between the choice of having intrusive programs on their computer that limit their ability to play and have fun, and a version that has none of that which they should be getting when they buy the game, they choose the latter. You see, that's the issue. Pirated versions of games get better service than bought versions of the game. THAT is the issue that causes piracy. It's not about "HOW DO WE BLOCK ALL THE TORRENT SITES EVER", it's about providing a good service. When the pirated version is a better service than the bought version, more people will pirate. It's that fucking simple, I don't know how this can't be grasped. | ||
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Ryndika
1489 Posts
Most of adults I've met buy games and only pirate it because it's easier to pirate than buy in legit way. It's another question whether you should or should not experience games you can't afford. E: I was going to say that my friends don't pirate indie games but now when I think about it, most of them do... Like that's in my opinion even worse when you pirate games like Magicka or Age of Stone etc =(. ( or was it rock? lol can't remember). | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:53 Requizen wrote: That's bullshit and you know it. I have a somewhat normal income (upper middle class whatever), I love to ski. Lift tickets are fucking expensive ($70+ a day in Summit County in Colorado). I go skiing once or twice a year, because I know it gets more expensive than I can afford to go out there, get a place to stay, ski, eat, etc. If something doesn't fit in your budget, sorry. Be realistic, not a pirate. I believe that you don't understand the situation in many countries in the world. There are tons of people who couldn't possibly afford to buy even a single original game due to ridiculously high prices. Take a look at Bulgaria for example. The average wage is 320 €. Original games cost about 60€. That's more than most people's monthly rent. There is no way in hell that the average Bulgarian could afford more than one or two games in an year. That's the reason why piracy is rampant there. However, the millions of pirated games/movies/programmes don't constitute a loss for the developers since those people couldn't afford them anyway. There are tons of countries in the world where the situation is even worse and where it's absolutely impossible to afford original software. That's why statistics claiming that the developers' loss from 4.5 mio illegal downloads equals the price of 4.5 mio sold copies is utter bullshit. I don't endorse piracy but one should always consider that conclusions derived from statistics tend to be completely misleading and/or plain wrong. | ||
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