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I don't understand how people can convince themselves that pirating games 'just to try them then buy them if they are good' or 'to support good developers and punish bad developers' is acceptable reasoning.
Nobody has the right to take something for free. It doesn't matter how bad a game is, you (should) have to pay for it to play it. Having low income, living in a place where you can't get games legitimately, none of these are good enough excuses to pirate a game. You can't walk into a clothes store, take a shirt, then decide after wearing it for a few weeks if you are going to bother paying for it. If you don't live near that clothes store, and can't have that shirt delivered to your house, then you don't get to wear it.
The same is not true for videogames/movies/music etc. Because they are available on the internet, people will access them illegally.
Before you tell me to get off my high-horse, I have of course downloaded stuff off the internet before. Plenty of music, some movies etc. The difference is I admit its fucking stealing and don't try to justify it as something less malicious.
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i pirated skyrim to make sure it works in wine.
now that ive got it working, ill probably buy it when i have the chance
what they need to do is provide more incentives to buy it. fuck DLM and DRM managers, they're annoying.
sell me shit like maps and cool pointless merchandise to go with the game. its fucking fun and awesome. tin cases ( i know i was incredibly disappointed when i got sc2 in some shitty paper sleeve) metal figurines, etc. make it fun to BUY
( i really want the collectors edition to skyrim )
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On December 03 2011 14:09 ICarrotU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 13:58 v3chr0 wrote:
The reason Piracy is "so bad" right now, is because the amount of bad developers is enormous. Piracy, as illegal as it is, is more of shit-sifter than a method of stealing. Competition drives innovation, smart developers WILL have ways to combat piracy, while earning the respect of its costumers who then usually buy the game.
Piracy, has given the software using community a lot of leverage, and with the ball in our court, it's clear we appreciate and respect good developers, but loot and pillage those who deceive. Arrrgh! Could you please give some examples of those that are good developers and those that are deceivers? Personally, I see this as another way of trying to justify something that is frankly unjustifiable. For instance, a friend of mine was complaining about how Bethesda is probably going to charge for Skyrim mods with the steamworkshop integration and how that is "bullshit" and how charging for mods in Oblivion was also bullshit and is the main reason why Bethesda is a "shitty company". The thing is, he didn't even buy Skyrim, but (like a vast majority of pc gamers in general) feels entitled to not have to pay for any extra content they create in the future. He also says that Skyrim isn't worth buying, yet he's already logged over 40 hours, the game has yet to be out for a month. This is the way many people try to justify their pirating, maybe to some it makes sense, but to me it just seems like another way to try and play it off like you're not doing something wrong.
I'm speaking for myself. I buy any product I'm going to use further than trying it.
Firefly Studios for one, along with EA. Even Bethesda hypes the shit out of their games then releases bug-infested-console-configured Skyrim. If it weren't for modders, TES would have died off after Morrowind because Oblivion and Skyrim are both far from what youd expect. The modders made those games exponentially better, and more playable. 1000 mods made for Skyrim the first week it was released, 1000 mods... with no creation kit.
Blizzard, is the greatest developer, ever. Ubisoft, and Ravensoft are good,
The problem comes from the fact that these companies release products people have no way of trying. When you hype the shit out a game that costs $60 to a consumer base of mostly teens/young adults with piracy being available, it's only common sense these things will happen. How is it not the responsibility of the company to have a way to deter (e-)piracy, something that has been around since the existence of video games/movies.
Good companies get way more notoriety from piracy, and I would go as far to bet that they attract tons of new paying customers this way. The only down side I can see is that it may hurt new or underfunded companies who do create good products.
Piracy is illegal, yes, but it's no where near as bad as it seems.
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On November 30 2011 22:16 LilClinkin wrote:
This anecdote sparked within me an idea: Imagine if such justice was dispensed by the user-base of paying players? What if not only the devs, but all honest gamers could invade and slaughter all of the pirates in their own game world? What better way to combat piracy than to empower those who legitimately pay to relentlessly slay and abuse those who would seek a free ride?
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LOL. do you even think before you type?
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On December 03 2011 14:42 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 14:09 ICarrotU wrote:On December 03 2011 13:58 v3chr0 wrote:
The reason Piracy is "so bad" right now, is because the amount of bad developers is enormous. Piracy, as illegal as it is, is more of shit-sifter than a method of stealing. Competition drives innovation, smart developers WILL have ways to combat piracy, while earning the respect of its costumers who then usually buy the game.
Piracy, has given the software using community a lot of leverage, and with the ball in our court, it's clear we appreciate and respect good developers, but loot and pillage those who deceive. Arrrgh! Could you please give some examples of those that are good developers and those that are deceivers? Personally, I see this as another way of trying to justify something that is frankly unjustifiable. For instance, a friend of mine was complaining about how Bethesda is probably going to charge for Skyrim mods with the steamworkshop integration and how that is "bullshit" and how charging for mods in Oblivion was also bullshit and is the main reason why Bethesda is a "shitty company". The thing is, he didn't even buy Skyrim, but (like a vast majority of pc gamers in general) feels entitled to not have to pay for any extra content they create in the future. He also says that Skyrim isn't worth buying, yet he's already logged over 40 hours, the game has yet to be out for a month. This is the way many people try to justify their pirating, maybe to some it makes sense, but to me it just seems like another way to try and play it off like you're not doing something wrong. I'm speaking for myself. I buy any product I'm going to use further than trying it. Firefly Studios for one, along with EA. Even Bethesda hypes the shit out of their games then releases bug-infested-console-configured Skyrim. If it weren't for modders, TES would have died off after Morrowind because Oblivion and Skyrim are both far from what youd expect. The modders made those games exponentially better, and more playable. 1000 mods made for Skyrim the first week it was released, 1000 mods... with no creation kit. Blizzard, is the greatest developer, ever. Ubisoft, and Ravensoft are good, The problem comes from the fact that these companies release products people have no way of trying. When you hype the shit out a game that costs $60 to a consumer base of mostly teens/young adults with piracy being available, it's only common sense these things will happen. How is it not the responsibility of the company to have a way to deter (e-)piracy, something that has been around since the existence of video games/movies. Good companies get way more notoriety from piracy, and I would go as far to bet that they attract tons of new paying customers this way. The only down side I can see is that it may hurt new or underfunded companies who do create good products.
EA has a plethora of reasons to dislike, but that in no way justifies pirating, especially when you take into account games like Mass Effect or Dead Space that were major contenders for game of the year. I personally have never played a Firefly Studios game, so I have no idea how great or horrendous they are.
I don't think Bethesda hyping a game up has anything to do with them being a horrible developer, I also think the claim that the game was 'bug infested' is highly over exaggerated. Speaking for myself, I got the game at release and had absolutely no problems running or playing the game, the only bug that I noticed in my first playthrough was being unable to use the mouse in the main menu, instead I was forced to use the keyboard, I did not have this problem during in-game menus, though. The minor bugs here and there in no way make the game unplayable; these claims are just more excuses to pirate, if the game was so unplayable, why do so many people have an average work week of hours logged in a game that's been out for less than 3 weeks?
I fail to see how a fantastic modding community devalues the game or company that produced it whatsoever, if anything, it shows how great the games are that so many people would spend their time adding their own additions to it.
You mention Ubisoft as being a great developer, but they get some of the most flack for adding their DRM, that of which rivals EA's for it's intrusiveness, which in the past has made games completely unplayable for legitimate buyers.
Honestly, everything you've stated just sounds like the same excuses everyone else uses, at the end of the day, the only effective way to combat piracy is release console versions or make a great multiplayer with DRM, neither of these of fail proof, but it's one of the main reasons why companies like Blizzard, Activision and Valve are the biggest out there.
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Not sure how, but I accidentally triple posted.
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Idk I have never pirated a game and I see were they are coming from. It's like buying a car without test driving it. Maybe it's good maybe it's not. If you buy a car that breaks down the dealer has to fix it if it is in the first month after being sold. No game developer has this. Buy a terrible pretty much totally unplayable game that was lied based on the trailers and good luck getting your money back. Getting a POS game that ruins your experience makes you want to pirate to make up that 60 bucks you just blew on a <5 hour game single player game with no replay ability.
It's kind of a shame how badly monopolizing the game industry fucked it up. All the games now like CoD are just re hashed from the year before with some new skins and barely any improvements and yet you are forced to buy when everyone else transferred to the new game. Look at all the sports games they are a total joke.
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On December 03 2011 15:26 tokicheese wrote:
Idk I have never pirated a game and I see were they are coming from. It's like buying a car without test driving it. Maybe it's good maybe it's not. If you buy a car that breaks down the dealer has to fix it if it is in the first month after being sold. No game developer has this. Buy a terrible pretty much totally unplayable game that was lied based on the trailers and good luck getting your money back. Getting a POS game that ruins your experience makes you want to pirate to make up that 60 bucks you just blew on a <5 hour game single player game with no replay ability.
It's kind of a shame how badly monopolizing the game industry fucked it up. All the games now like CoD are just re hashed from the year before with some new skins and barely any improvements and yet you are forced to buy when everyone else transferred to the new game. Look at all the sports games they are a total joke.
Yeah, but how many games are literally totally unplayable and don't receive any patches to fix it? We're talking about an IP, not a physical item, what about the cds, board games, movies, and books that you buy that you found out were shitty, are you able to return those for full price? I agree with what you said about rehashes, and it's unfortunate but these games wouldn't be doing as hot as they are if there were no demand for them.
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I'm sure this has been said alot this thread already but I don't think pirating is as bad as they make it out to be. I think most people who pirate games were not going to buy the games anyways, and some people buy it after they try it, some don't. I pirated a few games of the years; I never would have bought them at the time because I didn't have any money to buy them. Now that I actually have money I've bought several of these games. Probably wouldn't have bought them now if torrents didn't exist. I don't think this is that uncommon tbh.
I don't think pirating is justifiable or "right," but I don't think its a huge burden on the gaming industry.
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On December 03 2011 17:26 nennx wrote:
I'm sure this has been said alot this thread already but I don't think pirating is as bad as they make it out to be. I think most people who pirate games were not going to buy the games anyways, and some people buy it after they try it, some don't. I pirated a few games of the years; I never would have bought them at the time because I didn't have any money to buy them. Now that I actually have money I've bought several of these games. Probably wouldn't have bought them now if torrents didn't exist. I don't think this is that uncommon tbh.
I don't think pirating is justifiable or "right," but I don't think its a huge burden on the gaming industry.
If this would be the case it wouldn't be such a big deal to add multiplayer to the games even Assassins Creed and Mass Effect have multi now, look at Blizzard removing LAN from SC2 and Diablo3 to combat services like ICCup or Garena. I know people that will never buy a single player game, and yet have money to buy multiplayer titles because otherwise they would be unable to play online
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On December 03 2011 14:41 Dotrar wrote:
i pirated skyrim to make sure it works in wine.
now that ive got it working, ill probably buy it when i have the chance
you will "probably" buy it.
I'm sure the clear majority of people who use that justification actually don't buy the game, because we all lie on the internet ^>^ jokes that they're so afraid to admit they're just stealing the game over an anonymous medium they use to steal game
In reality piracy has ruined games. Theres no incentives in making free content patches if people are just stealing games in the first place. Now its DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC DLC and make sure it costs 10-20$ each time. I find it a joke people rag on activision for being money driven. What do you expect? Pirate users made developers/publishers think that we're all a bunch of theiving idiots and now its time for them to steal back what is rightfully theirs through overpriced games/not giving us the time of day to give us free content for being part of the community they built. Thanks, people who buy things legally are paying for your stupid choices
Modding in of itself is based off of piracy, which im sure is a big reason why companies are starting to make their games not modder friendly. Granted, the licenses for programs required to mod were ridiculously expensive so what else would you expect? Still thats no justification. BF1942/BF2 had the most amazing mod community, but where did that go? C yUH welcome to companies charging lots of $$$$ for their games to offset the ones that are stolen from them
I think the thing that upsets me the most is how people feel entitled to piracy though. As if its their right.
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On December 02 2011 05:01 Runnin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 19:02 Aldehyde wrote:On November 30 2011 22:16 LilClinkin wrote:The Witcher 2, a single-player action-RPG (and fantastic game) developed by CD Projeckt, was estimated to have been illegally downloaded over 4.5 million times. http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1213607p1.html#disqus_threadThis is disheartening news. For those not familiar, The Witcher 2 is a single-player action-RPG with extremely high production values: Plenty of unique high-resolution art assets, voice acting available in multiple languages, a diverse range of quests and alternative endings. Essentially, TW2 provides the gamut of features that you'd want from a hardcore single-player role-playing experience. Unfortunately, the cost of producing such experiences has skyrocketed compared to 10 years ago, and costs are only going to continue to increase. If pirates continue to leech off the hard work of developers like CD Projeckt, the market for such games is going to crash as the profitability simply will not exist. It pisses me off when developers and publishers keep whining about how many times their game is downloaded and yet never answer the question "did you sell enough games?". I hope that someday you ask your boss for a raise and he tells you "don't you make a livable wage already?". If a game is good enough for you to play it, then pay for it, whether or not they make their budget back is irrelevant. You aren't entitled to a game just because the company made some money.
That was not my point at all. I just didn't express myself clearly. My point is since there is absolutely no way for the companies to know how many of the pirates would buy their game if there was no way to download it illegally focusing on those numbers is stupid, wastes people's time and leads to companies punishing the legit customers rather than the pirates (what with DRM and all).
I also like that you completely ignore the part where I say that companies can look at the amount of downloads and say "how can we turn those into legit ones?". I don't believe the way to go about it is by putting DRM on the game. I believe you should make it easy to buy your game, not have specific pre-order deals at specific stores, no DRM.
As it is now, it's easier to download the game than it is to buy it. What's up with that? And if you buy it from the wrong place you don't get all the content and if you don't pre-order it's the same deal.
I also never said that you shouldn't pay for the games you play but please, go right ahead and put words in my mouth. Of course it's irrelevant for me as a customer to wonder if they get their money back or not but looking at the number of downlaods and immediately coming to the conclusion that every download = a lost sale is fucking retarded.
We have no statistics that show how big of a percentage of the pirates would buy games legitimately if there was no piracy. We have no statistics on how many of the pirates actually go out and buy the game after they've downloaded it. We DO have statistics showing pirates may actually spend MORE money than non-pirates
http://www.switched.com/2011/02/11/neil-gaiman-piracy-leads-to-more-book-sales/
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/05/file-sharers-are-content-industrys-largest-customers.ars
http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/04/study-pirates-buy-tons-more-music-than-average-folks.ars
I am NOT defending piracy (though I don't have much against it). I am NOT telling companies to completely ignore the amount of downloaded games. I am NOT telling companies to not try and convert the pirates into buyers.
I AM saying that looking at the amount of downloaded games and saying all of them are lost sales is stupid as shit. I AM saying that DRM and the like is also stupid.
Next time you could try and actually put my whole quote there, not ignore half my point and then putting words in my mouth.
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Personally I take umbrage with people saying that 'wanting to buy' and 'wanting to play' should be completely different. When Dead Island came out, a few of my friends from out of state started playing it and loved it. They tried for weeks to get me to play, but I had very little interest in the game. Finally, one of them convinced me to pirate it and try it to see if I liked it, and if so I could buy it and play with them. I downloaded it, played it for about an hour, uninstalled it and didn't buy it because the game just wasn't fun to me. I treated it (and all other games I've downloaded, which is very few) as demos. I'll play for an hour or two to decide if they're worth the $60 for me.
Am I 'hurting the industry' by doing this? I'd argue the complete opposite. Every game I've pirated (again, this is not a large number, probably less than 8) has been a game I was on the fence about and would not have bought at full price. A few of them I liked enough in my few hours playing to buy, the rest I did not and stopped playing. Minecraft, perfect example. A friend was raving about it but it didn't sound that interesting to me. I downloaded it, played it for a few hours, and then went and bought it.
Am I the norm? No. Does that make what I do wrong? Decide for yourself, but I think not.
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On December 03 2011 14:35 HystericaLaughter wrote:
Nobody has the right to take something for free..
put it this way: people should get/recieve stuff for free. if they dont, they have the right to take it.
if everything in this life, in human existence, is luck driven, then the above statement is not only true but it needs to be allowed to happen.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:27 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 14:35 HystericaLaughter wrote:
Nobody has the right to take something for free.. put it this way: people should get/recieve stuff for free. if they dont, they have the right to take it. if everything in this life, in human existence, is luck driven, then the above statement is not only true but it needs to be allowed to happen.
That's absurd. People put time, effort, and money into everything that is produced, whether it be tangible or not. Luck is irrelevant.
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On December 03 2011 23:35 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 22:27 xM(Z wrote:On December 03 2011 14:35 HystericaLaughter wrote:
Nobody has the right to take something for free.. put it this way: people should get/recieve stuff for free. if they dont, they have the right to take it. if everything in this life, in human existence, is luck driven, then the above statement is not only true but it needs to be allowed to happen. That's absurd. People put time, effort, and money into everything that is produced, whether it be tangible or not. Luck is irrelevant.
sure and if you're lucky to get a degenerative genetic disorder at birth, or end up the victim of a crash car (just random examples) in your early years, your time and effort will amount to nothing; just because you had bad luck.
what you are, what you do and what you have is based on luck. your effort, time and 'money'?(since when you're born with them?) are only there to make luck seem like it was your fault.
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United States5162 Posts
On December 04 2011 00:06 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 23:35 Myles wrote:On December 03 2011 22:27 xM(Z wrote:On December 03 2011 14:35 HystericaLaughter wrote:
Nobody has the right to take something for free.. put it this way: people should get/recieve stuff for free. if they dont, they have the right to take it. if everything in this life, in human existence, is luck driven, then the above statement is not only true but it needs to be allowed to happen. That's absurd. People put time, effort, and money into everything that is produced, whether it be tangible or not. Luck is irrelevant. sure and if you're lucky to get a degenerative genetic disorder at birth, or end up the victim of a crash car (just random examples) in your early years, your time and effort will amount to nothing; just because you had bad luck. what you are, what you do and what you have is based on luck. your effort, time and 'money'?(since when you're born with them?) are only there to make luck seem like it was your fault.
Simplifying everything down to luck is as wrong as simplifying everything down to hard work. And I still don't see how it's relevant to costs of something vs you thinking people should be able to have it for free.
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[B]
Nobody has the right to take something for free. It doesn't matter how bad a game is, you (should) have to pay for it to play it. Having low income, living in a place where you can't get games legitimately, none of these are good enough excuses to pirate a game. You can't walk into a clothes store, take a shirt, then decide after wearing it for a few weeks if you are going to bother paying for it. If you don't live near that clothes store, and can't have that shirt delivered to your house, then you don't get to wear it.
You're correct. We don't currently have that "right". But we should do.
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I actually bought Witcher 2, but I still haven't played it -_-;;
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EPT
