On November 07 2011 04:33 FusionMrWet wrote: I feel whatever he got he deserved, you say he didnt harm any children, and i feel that is wrong in many ways. Sure he didnt make the porn himself or produce it, but without the demand, there would be no supply.
What if he didn't express any demand? Then media are the ones to verify demand, rather than this indivudal user.
I'm pretty sure a life sentence for possessing that kind of shit isn't a good enough punishment, you should be put to death for putting a child through that, the people who watch that are just as guilty as the people who do it.
On November 07 2011 04:11 Pertinacious wrote: Certainly seems like overkill.
I'm not entirely convinced that possession of (or viewing) the pornography should be illegal. Essentially it's a recording of an illegal act, and I'm not aware of any other situations in which a photo or video of an illegal act is itself criminal to possess.
It is rather simple to find videos of vandalism, assault, even murder. As far as I know you would not be prosecuted for viewing or downloading them.
The thing is, no one (I hope) is paying money to watch those kind of things. (If they are they can just watch movies) But with CP you are encouraging the distributor to continue in said practice, which ultimately leads to more crimes commited.
How?
If you're not paying then how, unless you personally encourage the maker, do you actually support it? I mean, the people who do it (for free), let's be honest, are most of the times "normal" people who put it online as part of the sexual arousal, I believe. The joy they get, aside from people encouraging them over forums or whatever, is probably just having uploaded it. As far as you anonymously download the pictures for free without any encouragement then how are you supporting the market?
I read nothing of him giving the maker(s?) thumbs up, you know?
They don't pay? Hmm. I'm no purveyer of Child Porn, so I can't really say -.-.
My guess is that the "operaters" that put up the child porn probably base it off of views? If no one's viewing your stuff, do you really bother putting up more. Again, I've never managed a collection of CP, so I can't say -.-.
I suppose if viewing it provided no encouragement for it whatsoever, then it might be okay. (eww.) Then again, I think you're hurting the kid that partook in the making just by viewing, so I dunno. Just make CP anime or something and make it available for people that actually want to watch that shit. Bleh
On November 07 2011 04:33 FusionMrWet wrote: I feel whatever he got he deserved, you say he didnt harm any children, and i feel that is wrong in many ways. Sure he didnt make the porn himself or produce it, but without the demand, there would be no supply.
I'm sure you and every person in this thread has purchased something that was made by a child laborer at one point or another, by your logic we are awful people and we support child labor.
Also let me say this again, second hand smoke kills 3,000 people every year. Does that make every smoker who supports the smoking industry a murderer, or at least partially responsible?
Regardless of what you "feel" this man did not get what he deserved, in anyway shape or form. Punishment simply does not fit the crime.
On November 07 2011 04:11 Pertinacious wrote: Certainly seems like overkill.
I'm not entirely convinced that possession of (or viewing) the pornography should be illegal. Essentially it's a recording of an illegal act, and I'm not aware of any other situations in which a photo or video of an illegal act is itself criminal to possess.
It is rather simple to find videos of vandalism, assault, even murder. As far as I know you would not be prosecuted for viewing or downloading them.
The thing is, no one (I hope) is paying money to watch those kind of things. (If they are they can just watch movies) But with CP you are encouraging the distributor to continue in said practice, which ultimately leads to more crimes commited.
How?
If you're not paying then how, unless you personally encourage the maker, do you actually support it? I mean, the people who do it (for free), let's be honest, are most of the times "normal" people who put it online as part of the sexual arousal, I believe. The joy they get, aside from people encouraging them over forums or whatever, is probably just having uploaded it. As far as you anonymously download the pictures for free without any encouragement then how are you supporting the market?
I read nothing of him giving the maker(s?) thumbs up, you know?
They don't pay? Hmm. I'm no purveyer of Child Porn, so I can't really say -.-.
My guess is that the "operaters" that put up the child porn probably base it off of views? If no one's viewing your stuff, do you really bother putting up more. Again, I've never managed a collection of CP, so I can't say -.-.
I suppose if viewing it provided no encouragement for it whatsoever, then it might be okay. (eww.) Then again, I think you're hurting the kid that partook in the making just by viewing, so I dunno. Just make CP anime or something and make it available for people that actually want to watch that shit. Bleh
Well, there are people who pay I'm sure. However, there are nothing in the article that says Daniel paid for the pictures. And, yeah, okay. They may base it off of views. But what if someone is curious? Or saves one picture in order to see what to stay away from or whatever and forget to throw it, is that ok?
I believe, if you were to view it for yourself only if you in no way promote it (not giving views, money, comments, traffic or in any way encourage the makers) i don't see the harm. I mean, the damage is done. Are you victimizing the child even if he/she doesn't know you're looking? "If a tree falls and no one hears it ..." It's a thin line to walk anyway.
And besides, about the anime, in Sweden it's illegal to have pictures of _any_ kind of sexual content with at least one party under 18. That's cartoon, anime or real. That's fucked up for real. I mean, cartoons?!
People here actually think this punishment is justified or even want him killed for watching a video?! Sure, child porn should be illegal (when real kids are involved, banning cartoons or stuff like that is rather stupid imo, legalizing them might actually prevent pedophiles from harming children). But as long as he didn't harm a child and didn't even support the creator of this footage by paying him money, I don't see why he should be put in jail at all. Monetary penalty or probation would be just fine. But even is you sentence him to jail, there's no way a lifelong penalty is justified.
Also, for all the people saying "it will send a message to the others", think about it. Will they care? Will people supplying really care? Will the people who can't help but like this care? An easier example: many drug addicts have their lives ruled and ruined by the drugs, and it isn't a secret or unknown truth, yet people still do it. It barely deters people at all. Will drug dealers care about it?
On November 07 2011 00:30 LilClinkin wrote: Why is society so intolerant to the idea that some individuals may be sexually attracted to children?
Does any body ever stop to ask these people why they feel these sexual attractions? Personally I'd be fascinated to know what makes them tick. I have a hypothesis that many of them strongly correlate feelings of emotional closeness/love with sexual acts. Thus, when they want to be loving to a child (which is a normal human instinct) they unintentionally associate this with thoughts of sex involving the child. Maybe they don't wish to actually have sex with the child, but only to sexually pleasure the child? Who knows, I'm sure every paedophile is different and some may not have any logical grounding to why they feel their sexual attraction.
As far as I can see, the only thing wrong with a sexual attraction to children is the fact that any sexual act involving a child is inherently wrong, as a child is too immature to give informed consent to such acts.
Modern society has attempted to condition us to be tolerant of homosexuals, but historically they were shunned and stigmatised in a similar fashion to paedophiles of today. I personally have never been able to rationalise why homosexuals feel sexual attraction to members of their own sex, and I'll admit, the thought of homosexuals does intrinsically make me feel uneasy. However I'm a mature adult; I can accept the explanation from homosexuals justifying their behavior, even if I cannot rationalise it: "I was born this way, I just am the way I am, and you should accept and not judge me based on a sexual attraction that I have no ability to control". This seems quite similar to what a paedophile may say about their attraction to children. In my mind, you either simultaneously accept paedophilic attraction and homosexual attraction, or you dismiss both.
Remember, attraction and sexual acts are distinctly different things. If you are having trouble understanding or wish to deny this simple truth, consider this situation (this should be easy as the majority readership of TL is heterosexual males): Your best friend gets married. His wife is physically attractive to you: Blonde/brunette hair, well-endowed breasts, curvacious hips, assign whatever attributes you find physically attractive to this fictional wife. Would it be normal to feel sexual attraction to this woman? Yes. Is it a crime? Of course not. Feeling attraction and acting on the attraction to escalate to a sexual act are very different things. As I'm sure most (I hope) of you would agree, attempting to have sex with your best friend's wife, regardless of how attractive she may be, is a morally corrupt thing to do. Just the same as having sex with a child.
Hopefully you can see the distinction, and stop stigmatising paedophiles to the degree where it is considered OK for one to be locked up in jail for the entirety of their life.
Furthermore, for those who say that paedophiles who view pornographic content are 'supporting the industry', I have to strongly disagree. Child pornography (I assume) is such a niche market that the producers of content are most likely consumers of the content as well. Fact is, there will always be people producing child pornographic content.
There's a growing following that is claiming pedophilia is a mental disorder. 'Pedophilia is biologically pathological to the extent that it causes the person to be uninterested in reproductively viable (i,e,, sexually mature, opposite-sex) persons. Given the reproductive significance of preferring fertile sexual partners, pedophilia in its stronger forms would meet Wakefield's (1992) definition of a mental disorder, and thus can be conceptualized as the result of disruptions in the mechanism(s) underlying sexual age preferences,' (Seto 2000). Padophiles have a higher reported PPG when viewing children than mature women. A lot of pedophiles tend to have significant mental disorders that include not finding mature women sexually attractive. They usually regress psychologically and actually believe the relationship to be mutually benefiting. This may occur as a teenager or when elderly. The fact that a pedophile is married is meaningless.
You may disagree about child pornography but your opinion is simply wrong. It's estimated to be a multi-billion dollar industry that is growing insanely fast due to the internet. Organized crime is involved in smuggling of children for porn. By increasing the punishment for simple possession, it should significantly lower the demand for children and thus human trafficking/commercial sexual exploitation of children is reduced. And those interested in child pornography..it's estimated to be 1 in 1,000 adult males (Hamish McCulloch, assistant director for trafficking in human beings at Interpol).
Just as a side note. It's annoying to see pedophiles and child molesters used interchangeably. Not all pedophiles are child molesters just as all child molesters are not pedophiles. A child molester is person who engages in any type of sexual activity with someone legally defined as a child (in some places, 17) while pedophiles' victims must be per-pubescent children (for instance, a toddler).
According to this argument, homosexuality is also a mental illness. Why is homosexuality gaining social acceptance and not pedophilia? What is the difference? In a vacuum, the two are identical. They both have non-standard sexual preferences. The difference is one victimizes innocent children, which does make it unacceptable. However, stating that pedophilia is a sickness is incredibly myopic because it is, for all intents and purposes, as legitimate a sexual orientation as heterosexuality or homosexuality. Again, it is not the condition but the effect that makes it inappropriate.
The troubling thing about this sentence is its effect upon judicial precedence. Disproportional punishment has the effect of incentivizing people with socially harmful desires to act upon their urges, because the justice system punishes these more drastic acts much less severely. What will probably occur is a successful appeal to a higher level court and a drastically reduced sentence, maybe 1~5 years in prison. The question is whether or not the punishment scale for sexual crimes will be reevaluated following this case.
Lock him up. Leave him there. He will be taken care of by the inmates. Nobody wants a pedo near them. It's imo the 3rd most putrid act you can commit behind murder and rape.
Life sentence for that? I mean come on, it's obviously not a good thing to be doing, but aren't there other things to do than to give a 26 year old life for having a certain quirk, why can't the courts give life sentences to people that DO deserve them.
i think its a bit too much age of 26 to life sentence... i didnt understand though is it just for possessing or he actually films child porn... if its jsut for possessing THATS WAY TOO MUCH
On November 07 2011 06:25 ranshaked wrote: Lock him up. Leave him there. He will be taken care of by the inmates. Nobody wants a pedo near them. It's imo the 3rd most putrid act you can commit behind murder and rape.
He needs a slap and a short jail term...life....Americans! Don't let this happen :-(
America is one scary place...Check out this vid on how many people are actually in jail in the USA - unbelievable.
Stephen Fry on American Prisons, from the TV show QI
The prison facts mentioned here,
I'll start with a fact everyone(well nearly everyone) knows.
1. Three "strikes" and you get life in jail. Even for trivial crimes, Leandro Andrade is serving 2 consecutive life sentences for shoplifting 9 video tapes with a value of $153 2a. 1% of Americans are in jail(2.3million) 2b On a per capita bases this equates to twice as many in South Africans, more than 3 times Iran and 6 times China's prison population. 3. No society in history has imprisoned as many people as America. 4. 1 in 30 men aged 20 - 34 in in prison. 5.1 in 9 black males are in prison. 6. There are more 17 year old black males in prison than in college. 7. 5% of the world are American...25% of all prisoners are American. 8. America prohibits importing goods made through forced labor or prisoners... YET... ...American prisons produce 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet proof vests, 9. 93% of domestically used paints, 36% of home appliances, 21% of office furniture, which allows America to compete with factories in Mexico. 10. You get solitary confinement if you refuse to work!
11. Thus America has successfully reinvented the slave trade.
On November 06 2011 11:57 Dark_Chill wrote: When I think about it, gambling is sort of like a psychological addiction, and ruins people's (child porn owners) lives all the time. Casinos (child porn distributors) give people a place to encourage this. Gamblers (child porn owners) support this by gambling, hurting other people's lives too. Now of course, I am not saying gambling is akin to possessing child porn, but like gambling, we should instead try to help these people recover from their psychological problems, not throw them away. They're still people, and they can be molded back into ideal members of society.
I agree with you 100%. This person should get help to understand why his behavior is unacceptable and get help to stop it. I guess they could take away his computer and Internet while he's in treatment as well. I think any prison time at all is too harsh of a sentence in a case like this. On top of that, the money is better spent on getting him back to society asap. It's not like he's a proven danger to anyone.
In prison, pedophilia is sort of the lowest of the low. The person should try to keep his mouth shut why he is in there, otherwise he is going to be living hell. Even a murderer can care for his/her family.
EPT
