On November 04 2011 16:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [quote] It's depressing to read the shit people come up with to justify blocking ads.
No need to be so rude when people don't agree with you
(Man, you are an admin! at least, please respect the rules you ask others to respect, even if you disagree with posted content).
It isn't against the rules to call something shit, when it is indeed shit.
Well I won't come down to such a level of discussion, but I have to say it makes me a bit wondering about TL to know that mods are actually acting like this. Having said that, I don't see why making a subscription fee wouldn't be a respectable option to consider; I have seen many websites proposing this "ads vs fee" exchange, and it seemed to work for them. You should even make more money, which seems to be your goal here; as this fee would be nothing but an extra option.
You really need to read the 10 commandments to put the mods behavior in perspective. Their house, they are not gonna kick themselves out for being rude. You come to their house and be rude, then you arent welcome. Something like that.
Are you suggesting that it is ok for mods to be rude to standard posters? Interesting perspective... I don't know, when I invite people home, I don't do that personnally. Remember that admins wouldn't be much without people coming to their website.
But I don't want to make this a big problem! I just found Nazgul behavior inadequate here (as most people would), especially the fact that he allows this because of his status and is defended by other mods. But I assume he probably didn't mean to be absolutely rude and nasty, he just overreacted to something he didn't like (as it happens to everybody) and I can understand that. Just a bit more education wouldn't hurt though.
You do realize that Nazgul is a bit more than a mod? He owns TL, so I think his opinions would vary slightly more than a standard mod considering ad blocking cuts into the company he owns
He could be Bill Gates, I wouldn't care less. That does not justify anything, and I am surprised people think it might do so. The guy might be concerned with his business, fair enough; I just think there are other concerns to have when it comes to advertisment, which might be more important than his business; and which have to do with the place of advertisment in society in general.
man your idealistic views on ads just have no touch in reality. What do you come on TL for? Is it maybe watching streams and tournaments? Well guess what, without ads/sponsors (who only sponsor teams and tournies for advertisement purposes) there would be no freaking tournaments to watch, no BW, no SC, there would be no professional scene. You probably watched / read your 99 francs and think you know fuck all about how "bad" advertisement is for our society. Its not. Especially for stuff like sports and esports it is absolutely crucial. So just come off your high horse and face reality, your idealistic point of view is bullshit im afraid.
And fyi, even if Nazguls post had come from random poster xyz theres no way he would get banned for that.
He mentioned that he would be glad to provide DIRECT SUPPORT, that is, a few dollars rather than a few indirect tenths of a cent.
....that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.. did you even read my post?
On November 04 2011 22:19 timmyfred wrote: I don't use adblock at all, because I don't mind that people get paid for their work, and it costs me nothing.
If it costs you nothing then who's paying? .
ehhhhhhhh the ones paying for the adverts. Are you really asking that?
I wish this thread would just be closed. It's depressing how self centered and selfish this community and people in general are. I can somewhat understand feeling no connection to TL from the 200 post people but man if you have 1000+ posts on TL how do you feel nothing for the site and the people who have devoted their lives to running it after you have spent so much time using their work.
Yes I use adblock. No I will not turn it off. Most ads that are played on streams such as the cigarette adds try to make you look at disgusting stuff when your trying to enjoy some starcraft. Watching adds is not the only way to support e-sports so its "Optional". Plus most pro players that many people do view are sponsored by many different companies and the team they play for. So not watching a few streams that might or might not have adds is irrelevant to the growth of E-Sports because it is not dependent on mass marketing via adds.
On November 05 2011 02:07 Mig wrote: I wish this thread would just be closed. It's depressing how self centered and selfish this community and people in general are. I can somewhat understand feeling no connection to TL from the 200 post people but man if you have 1000+ posts on TL how do you feel nothing for the site and the people who have devoted their lives to running it after you have spent so much time using their work.
Eh, it's a pretty odd view you have there segregating the community by their post count and labeling people self centered and selfish for not turning off ad block... Team Liquid has other streams of income and while the ads are certainly a huge stream of money, you can't sit here and guilt people into looking at ads they don't want to see.
If someone doesn't want to see ads and turns off ad block, you've stepped into the realm of ripping off advertisers who pay a lot of money via ad words for ads on here that the person has absolutely no interest in. If anything I'd say posts like yours are the reason the thread should be closed.
I always hear the debate about subscription or some monthly fee for websites. The biggest issue about that is probably the elitism, that will most likely ensue. People that have paid money will think, that their opinion should be worth more than the opinion of the "lesser" non-paying members. This is of course not the case with everyone paying, but as it is with the internet, the bad apples stick out. There will definitely be an elitist-asshole factor, and that is dumb.
On November 05 2011 02:17 Blurio wrote: I don't block ads.
I always hear the debate about subscription or some monthly fee for websites. The biggest issue about that is probably the elitism, that will most likely ensue. People that have paid money will think, that their opinion should be worth more than the opinion of the "lesser" non-paying members. This is of course not the case with everyone paying, but as it is with the internet, the bad apples stick out. There will definitely be an elitist-asshole factor, and that is dumb.
This is already going on in this thread, except instead of paying it's those who don't ad-block. And it is truly idiotic.
On November 05 2011 02:07 Mig wrote: I wish this thread would just be closed. It's depressing how self centered and selfish this community and people in general are. I can somewhat understand feeling no connection to TL from the 200 post people but man if you have 1000+ posts on TL how do you feel nothing for the site and the people who have devoted their lives to running it after you have spent so much time using their work.
The problem isn't that people don't want to help TL. The problem is advertisements. If TL offered other models of support, many of the people posting about adblock would gladly use them.
For example; I would rather directly pay TL the money they would get from my advertising impressions then look at those advertisements. Does using adblock mean I'm not willing to support TL financially? No. Does it mean I would like them to implement a different model of support? Yes.
On November 05 2011 02:08 d00mbring3r wrote: Yes I use adblock. No I will not turn it off. Most ads that are played on streams such as the cigarette adds try to make you look at disgusting stuff when your trying to enjoy some starcraft. Watching adds is not the only way to support e-sports so its "Optional". Plus most pro players that many people do view are sponsored by many different companies and the team they play for. So not watching a few streams that might or might not have adds is irrelevant to the growth of E-Sports because it is not dependent on mass marketing via adds.
Just my 2cents
Personally if I for whatever reason cant wait for the stream to start/dont feel like watching ads i just click on "watch on twitch.tv". But TL itself is a site with so many voluntary workers, theres so much effort put into it for very little monetary gain, and personally I dont even notice the ads, theres no "disgusting" stuff I ever see on here.
On November 04 2011 12:32 BreakfastTea wrote: I use adblock, and to be frank, TLs recent campaign has only pissed me off and I have no intention of removing it. It can't be guaranteed that clickable links will be safe (half the reason to fucking have adblock to begin with). But there's another problem-- the recent "remove adblock" campaign prevents me from even viewing stream content unless I remove adblock. Why should I have to deal with that on TL, especially when I can go directly to the content generator's website to the view that same content and support them directly? I should not have to put my computer at risk in order to view free content, especially when it is third party content. And this doesn't support eSports--it supports TL (I also wonder how much of the ad revenue from streams goes to the content creators? if any, will they be pleased to learn that TL is essentially blocking access to their content for its own gain?). So a loud message to TL: do not ever ask anyone to not utilize a feature on their computer that is desirable for both its convenience and the added safety it provides to the user for your benefit--it makes you look less than legitimate.
And I'll state one of my pet peeves directly: don't fucking play the "support eSports" card.
Edit: And it's also bad from a website usability standpoint, which in turn will decrease traffic. If this stays on as it is, I won't use TL to view streams.
This.
I would consider un-adblock Teamliquid if TL is willing to reveal its financial record. Otherwise, no.
ESPORTS is an embryo and we are the womb of ESPORTS. TL is the mother. Do you ask your mother what nutrients and wastes you exchange through the umbilical cord? No.
On November 04 2011 12:32 BreakfastTea wrote: I use adblock, and to be frank, TLs recent campaign has only pissed me off and I have no intention of removing it. It can't be guaranteed that clickable links will be safe (half the reason to fucking have adblock to begin with). But there's another problem-- the recent "remove adblock" campaign prevents me from even viewing stream content unless I remove adblock. Why should I have to deal with that on TL, especially when I can go directly to the content generator's website to the view that same content and support them directly? I should not have to put my computer at risk in order to view free content, especially when it is third party content. And this doesn't support eSports--it supports TL (I also wonder how much of the ad revenue from streams goes to the content creators? if any, will they be pleased to learn that TL is essentially blocking access to their content for its own gain?). So a loud message to TL: do not ever ask anyone to not utilize a feature on their computer that is desirable for both its convenience and the added safety it provides to the user for your benefit--it makes you look less than legitimate.
And I'll state one of my pet peeves directly: don't fucking play the "support eSports" card.
Edit: And it's also bad from a website usability standpoint, which in turn will decrease traffic. If this stays on as it is, I won't use TL to view streams.
This.
I would consider un-adblock Teamliquid if TL is willing to reveal its financial record. Otherwise, no.
ESPORTS is an embryo and we are the womb of ESPORTS. TL is the mother. Do you ask your mother what nutrients and wastes you exchange through the umbilical cord? No.
That's probably the weirdest metaphor I've heard in awhile. o_o
Thanks for this post. I'm that lazy asshole who couldn't figure out how to turn it off for the site. It's off now though
How does one go about adding a exception for Twitch? Is it possible to do it on a stream by stream basis? (I.e. exception for Sheth's stream, but not for IdrA's, just an example mind you)
On November 05 2011 02:08 d00mbring3r wrote: Yes I use adblock. No I will not turn it off. Most ads that are played on streams such as the cigarette adds try to make you look at disgusting stuff when your trying to enjoy some starcraft. Watching adds is not the only way to support e-sports so its "Optional". Plus most pro players that many people do view are sponsored by many different companies and the team they play for. So not watching a few streams that might or might not have adds is irrelevant to the growth of E-Sports because it is not dependent on mass marketing via adds.
Just my 2cents
Personally if I for whatever reason cant wait for the stream to start/dont feel like watching ads i just click on "watch on twitch.tv". But TL itself is a site with so many voluntary workers, theres so much effort put into it for very little monetary gain, and personally I dont even notice the ads, theres no "disgusting" stuff I ever see on here.
Well here in the states they do cigarette adds where they show a guy with plastic gloves on squeezing out all this puss looking stuff from what looks to be an artery onto a napkin. The second looks like they just took a sponge and filled it with sludge and they squeeze it into a measuring cup. Those are the two recent ones that really have me refraining from watching streams sometimes. Yes TL.net is kept up with a lot of voluntary workers which is respectable. The catch is that most streams are done by the "players" not the actual TL.net staff. I could agree if say Chill had a stream that he did whatever on but that is not the case. E-sports encompasses not only TL.net but the entirety of making online gaming bigger and better. So reserving the right to watch or not to watch adds is fine. If you want to support your favorite players then watch the adds if not its your choice to do so!
On November 04 2011 12:32 BreakfastTea wrote: I use adblock, and to be frank, TLs recent campaign has only pissed me off and I have no intention of removing it. It can't be guaranteed that clickable links will be safe (half the reason to fucking have adblock to begin with). But there's another problem-- the recent "remove adblock" campaign prevents me from even viewing stream content unless I remove adblock. Why should I have to deal with that on TL, especially when I can go directly to the content generator's website to the view that same content and support them directly? I should not have to put my computer at risk in order to view free content, especially when it is third party content. And this doesn't support eSports--it supports TL (I also wonder how much of the ad revenue from streams goes to the content creators? if any, will they be pleased to learn that TL is essentially blocking access to their content for its own gain?). So a loud message to TL: do not ever ask anyone to not utilize a feature on their computer that is desirable for both its convenience and the added safety it provides to the user for your benefit--it makes you look less than legitimate.
And I'll state one of my pet peeves directly: don't fucking play the "support eSports" card.
Edit: And it's also bad from a website usability standpoint, which in turn will decrease traffic. If this stays on as it is, I won't use TL to view streams.
This.
I would consider un-adblock Teamliquid if TL is willing to reveal its financial record. Otherwise, no.
ESPORTS is an embryo and we are the womb of ESPORTS. TL is the mother. Do you ask your mother what nutrients and wastes you exchange through the umbilical cord? No.
If I wanted to know what went through an umbilical cord I would look at wikipedia, making sure I had an empty stomach beforehand.
If I wanted to know TL's financial shiznatz I would have to be a gosu hacker ninja (Or tie Victor to a chair and point a gun at his head lol).
Therefore until TL's financial records are on wikipedia your analogy is invalid.
EPT
