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US pulling out of Iraq - Page 8

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Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
October 21 2011 20:12 GMT
#141
On October 22 2011 04:52 Coraz wrote:
I do believe this is the third time Barack Hussein Obama has said he will pull the troops out of Iraq.

My bets are on war with Syria and Iran before this comes to pass.

Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 02:04 Newbistic wrote:
Hmm, time will tell what kind of nation Iraq will become.


A Sunni muslim dicatorship (edit: with sharia law theocracy).

jus' sayin'.


GL HF

Huh? They announced pulling out of Iraq with the number of troops seen in the OP. Maybe you just brushed by the numbers and thought it was going to be complete withdrawal the last time they announced something.
VPCursed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
1044 Posts
October 21 2011 20:12 GMT
#142
now lets leave all the other countries we are occupying.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
October 21 2011 20:13 GMT
#143
On October 22 2011 04:32 OsoVega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 04:28 Dbla08 wrote:
as much as its good that we won't be in iraq, he'll just send those troops to Iran or Afghanistan by February. obama is just another puppet doing what the "advisors" tell him to. same as the last dozen presidents. the u.s. needs a leader that isn't interested in empire building and is interested in fixing real issues instead of creating them.

Iran is a real issue. In my opinion, the US never should have meddled with Iraq and attacked it's real enemies, Iran and/or Saudi Arabia.


The U.S. is very close allies with Saudi Arabia...
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:21:06
October 21 2011 20:19 GMT
#144
On October 22 2011 04:52 Coraz wrote:
I do believe this is the third time Barack Hussein Obama has said he will pull the troops out of Iraq.

My bets are on war with Syria and Iran before this comes to pass.

Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 02:04 Newbistic wrote:
Hmm, time will tell what kind of nation Iraq will become.


A Sunni muslim dicatorship (edit: with sharia law theocracy).

jus' sayin'.


GL HF


How is this the third time? The only other time when he said we were to pull out a signification amount of troops from Iraq was like in August of 2010 I think. And that was done. Stop trying to imply Obama said something and then didn't do it.

EDIT; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_U.S._troops_from_Iraq

It's even on wikipedia...

"On February 27, 2009, at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, President Barack Obama announced a deadline for the withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. According to the president, by August 31, 2010, after nearly seven and a half years of United States military engagement in Iraq, all but a "transitional force" of 35,000 to 50,000 troops would be withdrawn from the Middle Eastern nation."

"On August 19, 2010, the 4th Stryker Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division was the last US combat brigade to withdraw from Iraq. About 50,000 US troops will remain in the country in an advisory capacity. According to the US, they will help to train Iraqi forces in a new mission dubbed by the US as "Operation New Dawn," which will run until the end of 2011."
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:22:23
October 21 2011 20:21 GMT
#145
You're pulling out just as much as you did with Korea and just about the rest of your 116 army bases in 60+ different countries.

You're not pulling out.
Iraq is not safe,
Iraq is not stable enough to save itself,
And it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't collapse into civil war lest we get even more hatred towards the rest and more islamofobic idiocy from westerners...

So this is not "thank god". This is retarded.

EDIT: According to my opinion that is, based of what facts I know as a person whose father comes from the area and constantly update myself with news and facts from less than shitty news outlets and pure facts, statistics and numbers.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
Bartimaeus
Profile Joined January 2011
United States67 Posts
October 21 2011 20:22 GMT
#146
I've been anticipating this moment for years now - if this actually goes through, it is a monumental step in the right direction forward for America. Unfortunately, it seems like more of a political move with the elections coming up than him (Obama) actually wanting to help the country. Out of all the things he promised to change, this seems to be the only one in his power - I just hope no foolish politician finds a loophole to make us stay in Iraq.
BeJe77
Profile Joined April 2006
United States377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:34:06
October 21 2011 20:23 GMT
#147
On October 22 2011 04:06 Fallen33 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 02:36 Frankon wrote:
Looks like there is no more oil....

On the serious note.
Would the american economy survive without the war? Weapon industry had been keeping the economy alive for the past few years.



Actually, the United States gets roughly 50% of it's oil from north america, and another 25-30% from south america and central america. So, your oil comment is not only invalid but extremely ignorant


Oh, no need to point it out, it's more fun to read their conspiracy theories .....A little research would show that the U.S. gets at most 10-11% of it's oil from the middle east, majority of the oil is imported from the different countries in the America's.


On October 22 2011 04:41 AutomatonOmega wrote:
I'm expecting us to maintain a base in Iraq tho as we've done in the past with other potential threat governments.


Well, we did build a new embassy in the capital, well it's more like a $1b fortress than an embassy ....Also article did state that there will be an additional 4-5k "hired" help to protect the embassy/workers there in addition to whatever the current contagion is for the security.

On October 22 2011 05:21 Krehlmar wrote:
You're pulling out just as much as you did with Korea and just about the rest of your 116 army bases in 60+ different countries.

You're not pulling out.
Iraq is not safe,
Iraq is not stable enough to save itself,
And it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't collapse into civil war lest we get even more hatred towards the rest and more islamofobic idiocy from westerners...

So this is not "thank god". This is retarded.

EDIT: According to my opinion that is, based of what facts I know as a person whose father comes from the area and constantly update myself with news and facts from less than shitty news outlets and pure facts, statistics and numbers.



Sup buddy, having 116 bases all over the world comes with being the top dog, just like the British dominated the world for so long, America will dominate it for a while until it's down fall or something happens where it cannot maintain it's power projection. With that will come the same type of hatred and what not the British enjoyed from their colonies, except in the perspective of the U.S. it will be the countries the U.S. meddled in.

Also why are you comparing Korea to Iraq when it's a completely different situation. The troops in Korea are there because the U.S. has a defense pact with Korea against N.K., the minute N.K. says we don't want you here, those troops are gone, but they will never say that because the 40-50k U.S. troops there act as a deterant to N.K. not because the 40-50k is a large number compared to N.K.s 1-2 million troops, but because it means the U.S. will deploy its full forces there if need arises.

The U.S. has no obligation to stay in Iraq, they have far over-stayed their welcome there. The people who loved them initially for over-throwing Saddam, now hate them because the saviors have become the occupiers. Any support given to the government makes the Iraq government look like puppets and creates even more hatred for the U.S. Also, of course Iraq is not stable, It never has been since its creation. Why? Because you have 3 completely different ethnic groups that hate each other more than they hate the U.S. at the moment. The only thing that held Iraq together was Saddam and his terror, see the Kurd gassing and countless other atrocities he has committed to keep the country together, even during his own rule the ethnic groups hated each other, them hating each other will not dissapear over night because that hatred has existed for centuries.


zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
October 21 2011 20:23 GMT
#148
On October 22 2011 04:32 jdseemoreglass wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Before departing we were treated to the excessive hospitality of the USO crew. Tables of items free for the taking were set up; snacks and food, cards, toothpaste, and various assorted novelties to appease the occasionally suspended fear and reluctance of soldiers preparing for war. We were given a quick briefing. They collected all lighters and knives before allowing us to board the plane with our semi-automatic rifles in hand. On the way to the plane we were ambushed by eagerly patriotic Americans handing out and waving American flags, and chanting the feel-good cliché mantras of "Thank you, Good luck, Thank you for serving, Take care..." As though the enlistment bonus were not sufficient compensation.

Life on a cot in a large tent with three inches of personal space in every direction is surprisingly palatable contrasted with the vicious heat outside. Some soldiers even quit smoking to avoid standing in the heat. What for years tobacco cessation campaigns, classes, and laws failed to do, the Kuwaiti sun accomplished in less than a week. While in the grasp of the heat, all desires are leveled and replaced with a singular purpose: to escape it.

We flew over the Iraqi desert. Upon first sight, a landscape devoid of mountains or trees, only plumes of black smoke rising from a barren, yellow wasteland. This is a land forsaken by God. An inhospitable and tortured land, who returns the suffering it has received upon its inhabitants. Upon first sight of this wasteland, extremism did not appear so extreme. Here, extremes are the norm. Extreme temperatures, disparity between worthless dust and black gold, religious and political civil war.

The FOB was a world of dust, concrete, and machinery, a constant hum of generators and the percussion of rotor blades chopping through the air. My only connection to the past was the cloudless blue sky. I walked into the first portable toilet I found and saw graffiti and words scrawled across the walls. “I hate this place!” It was a warm welcome. As I walked back to the tent, a soldier spoke to me.

“Welcome to Kalsu. Hey, it could be worse man. Just keep lying to yourself everyday and tell yourself you are doing great things.”

Who the hell is this guy talking to me? I just ignored him and walked on.

The next day we rested in the tent. One of the air conditioners was broken, and we lay on our bunks sweating, the noon sun beating down on the heavy tarps above us. Finally, the stereotypically recourseful Gutierrez managed to get the air working again, and we had a few minutes of cool air, until the power went out and we had to sweat it out again.

This is going to be rough, I thought. This is going to be a very long deployment. We walked to chow and counted the craters in the ground where mortars had struck. Back in the tent, the silence of the night was periodically broken by the loud crack of artillery. Bright red flares lit up the sky and slowly floated down, faded away and returned the darkness for only a moment.

You didn't admit things were bad. You were an inferior person if you ever complained. If you were macho-tough, nothing bothered you, and you never thought bad thoughts. It was a brilliant system of self-deception. It was a cliché to repeat over and over again; “When something needs to be done, I don’t complain, I just do it. Because complaining doesn’t change anything.”

The first time I was shot at, it was by British soldiers. As their convoy rode by in the distance, someone on the FOB did a test fire. Apparently they didn't know the FOB was there, so they fired back. The military was like any other goverment institution: it exemplified incompetence.

The Iraqis hit us at noon every day. It was like clockwork. They were trying to hit the dining facility at lunch time, killing as many of us as they could. Luckily, they were a horrible shot. And still, we lined up every day and crowded into the building, playing russian roulette in exchange for a meal. It wasn't like we could go to McDonalds instead. You hear the whistling crescendo, and wait for the dart to hit the board. We know when and where they plan to attack every day, and yet we can't stop them? What the fuck is this?

Finally they succeeded. You walk into the DFAC, and a huge gaping hole sits where the wall and roof used to be. Sunlight pours in, the flourescent lights flicker, and the tiles on the ceiling hang down in disarray. The mirrors in the gym next door were all shattered. But of course, it wasn't the loss of infrastructure we cared about.

The West lives in a bubble. A stable, calm, bubble, green with well-watered lawns. A convenient bubble, where they can be free to make laws and rules and worry themselves with moral indignation at all they see wrong with the world. All values and morals and ethics had been drilled into me since birth, but in truth such things were nothing more than wishful thinking, human delusions to contrast reality. At bottom, life is survival, and nothing more. That is part of growing up, in a way, parting with all of the well intentioned bullshit that society stuffs into the youth. They all want their children to believe in Santa Claus. But here, I was seeing life and the world as it truly was outside of the bubbles: imperfect, messy, violent, ruthless, dirty, poor. It was almost liberating.
That was great. Thanks for posting.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Bartimaeus
Profile Joined January 2011
United States67 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:27:39
October 21 2011 20:25 GMT
#149
On October 22 2011 05:21 Krehlmar wrote:
You're pulling out just as much as you did with Korea and just about the rest of your 116 army bases in 60+ different countries.

You're not pulling out.
Iraq is not safe,
Iraq is not stable enough to save itself,
And it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't collapse into civil war lest we get even more hatred towards the rest and more islamofobic idiocy from westerners...

So this is not "thank god". This is retarded.

EDIT: According to my opinion that is, based of what facts I know as a person whose father comes from the area and constantly update myself with news and facts from less than shitty news outlets and pure facts, statistics and numbers.



I have lived on several military bases, I was even born on one, and I can say that out of every base I've been to, I've never met a single local that didn't like the base's presence there.

And to address your statement about "responsibility", how is it America's sole responsibility to 'save' a country that is half way around the world?

Edit: to clarify, the only bases I've been to are those in Japan, so take that into account.
FryktSkyene
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1327 Posts
October 21 2011 20:25 GMT
#150
Seems like a good move for his campaign.

>.>
Snitches get stiches
Eisregen
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany967 Posts
October 21 2011 20:28 GMT
#151
The US was also very close with persia (later iran) years back (during the cold war) and put some nice young dictator onto duty. Well, rest is history and in the end the iran as it is today is the result. I remember Saddam being also a nice buddy for the US as the stuff in Iran failed. They promised Saddam that he can keep the oil fields he can conquer and the Iraq attacked Iran and over several years many many ppl lost their lives but in fact Saddam wasnt able to conquer anything, so he just turned around and occupied Kuwait. Wups, he didnt do what the US wanted him to do...and what happened afterwards? 1st Gulf war =) The whole afghanistan terror stuff is also in fact a result of US meddling with other countries during the cold war. I mean...everytime they meddle with countries, nothin good comes around.

Sry guys =( As much as I like some of my american buddies, the government is really really a messed up group of ppl, throughout decades
Photo-Noob@ http://www.flickr.com/photos/eisregen1983/
kota
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark84 Posts
October 21 2011 20:29 GMT
#152
Now that the US is out, Denmark should follow suit shortly
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
October 21 2011 20:33 GMT
#153
On October 22 2011 05:28 Eisregen wrote:
The US was also very close with persia (later iran) years back (during the cold war) and put some nice young dictator onto duty. Well, rest is history and in the end the iran as it is today is the result. I remember Saddam being also a nice buddy for the US as the stuff in Iran failed. They promised Saddam that he can keep the oil fields he can conquer and the Iraq attacked Iran and over several years many many ppl lost their lives but in fact Saddam wasnt able to conquer anything, so he just turned around and occupied Kuwait. Wups, he didnt do what the US wanted him to do...and what happened afterwards? 1st Gulf war =) The whole afghanistan terror stuff is also in fact a result of US meddling with other countries during the cold war. I mean...everytime they meddle with countries, nothin good comes around.

Sry guys =( As much as I like some of my american buddies, the government is really really a messed up group of ppl, throughout decades


Well said.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Krehlmar
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1149 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:36:31
October 21 2011 20:33 GMT
#154
On October 22 2011 04:32 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Before departing we were treated to the excessive hospitality of the USO crew. Tables of items free for the taking were set up; snacks and food, cards, toothpaste, and various assorted novelties to appease the occasionally suspended fear and reluctance of soldiers preparing for war. We were given a quick briefing. They collected all lighters and knives before allowing us to board the plane with our semi-automatic rifles in hand. On the way to the plane we were ambushed by eagerly patriotic Americans handing out and waving American flags, and chanting the feel-good cliché mantras of "Thank you, Good luck, Thank you for serving, Take care..." As though the enlistment bonus were not sufficient compensation.

Life on a cot in a large tent with three inches of personal space in every direction is surprisingly palatable contrasted with the vicious heat outside. Some soldiers even quit smoking to avoid standing in the heat. What for years tobacco cessation campaigns, classes, and laws failed to do, the Kuwaiti sun accomplished in less than a week. While in the grasp of the heat, all desires are leveled and replaced with a singular purpose: to escape it.

We flew over the Iraqi desert. Upon first sight, a landscape devoid of mountains or trees, only plumes of black smoke rising from a barren, yellow wasteland. This is a land forsaken by God. An inhospitable and tortured land, who returns the suffering it has received upon its inhabitants. Upon first sight of this wasteland, extremism did not appear so extreme. Here, extremes are the norm. Extreme temperatures, disparity between worthless dust and black gold, religious and political civil war.

The FOB was a world of dust, concrete, and machinery, a constant hum of generators and the percussion of rotor blades chopping through the air. My only connection to the past was the cloudless blue sky. I walked into the first portable toilet I found and saw graffiti and words scrawled across the walls. “I hate this place!” It was a warm welcome. As I walked back to the tent, a soldier spoke to me.

“Welcome to Kalsu. Hey, it could be worse man. Just keep lying to yourself everyday and tell yourself you are doing great things.”

Who the hell is this guy talking to me? I just ignored him and walked on.

The next day we rested in the tent. One of the air conditioners was broken, and we lay on our bunks sweating, the noon sun beating down on the heavy tarps above us. Finally, the stereotypically recourseful Gutierrez managed to get the air working again, and we had a few minutes of cool air, until the power went out and we had to sweat it out again.

This is going to be rough, I thought. This is going to be a very long deployment. We walked to chow and counted the craters in the ground where mortars had struck. Back in the tent, the silence of the night was periodically broken by the loud crack of artillery. Bright red flares lit up the sky and slowly floated down, faded away and returned the darkness for only a moment.

You didn't admit things were bad. You were an inferior person if you ever complained. If you were macho-tough, nothing bothered you, and you never thought bad thoughts. It was a brilliant system of self-deception. It was a cliché to repeat over and over again; “When something needs to be done, I don’t complain, I just do it. Because complaining doesn’t change anything.”

The first time I was shot at, it was by British soldiers. As their convoy rode by in the distance, someone on the FOB did a test fire. Apparently they didn't know the FOB was there, so they fired back. The military was like any other goverment institution: it exemplified incompetence.

The Iraqis hit us at noon every day. It was like clockwork. They were trying to hit the dining facility at lunch time, killing as many of us as they could. Luckily, they were a horrible shot. And still, we lined up every day and crowded into the building, playing russian roulette in exchange for a meal. It wasn't like we could go to McDonalds instead. You hear the whistling crescendo, and wait for the dart to hit the board. We know when and where they plan to attack every day, and yet we can't stop them? What the fuck is this?

Finally they succeeded. You walk into the DFAC, and a huge gaping hole sits where the wall and roof used to be. Sunlight pours in, the flourescent lights flicker, and the tiles on the ceiling hang down in disarray. The mirrors in the gym next door were all shattered. But of course, it wasn't the loss of infrastructure we cared about.

The West lives in a bubble. A stable, calm, bubble, green with well-watered lawns. A convenient bubble, where they can be free to make laws and rules and worry themselves with moral indignation at all they see wrong with the world. All values and morals and ethics had been drilled into me since birth, but in truth such things were nothing more than wishful thinking, human delusions to contrast reality. At bottom, life is survival, and nothing more. That is part of growing up, in a way, parting with all of the well intentioned bullshit that society stuffs into the youth. They all want their children to believe in Santa Claus. But here, I was seeing life and the world as it truly was outside of the bubbles: imperfect, messy, violent, ruthless, dirty, poor. It was almost liberating.


That was a great post. People should read it.

On October 22 2011 05:25 Bartimaeus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 05:21 Krehlmar wrote:
You're pulling out just as much as you did with Korea and just about the rest of your 116 army bases in 60+ different countries.

You're not pulling out.
Iraq is not safe,
Iraq is not stable enough to save itself,
And it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't collapse into civil war lest we get even more hatred towards the rest and more islamofobic idiocy from westerners...

So this is not "thank god". This is retarded.

EDIT: According to my opinion that is, based of what facts I know as a person whose father comes from the area and constantly update myself with news and facts from less than shitty news outlets and pure facts, statistics and numbers.



I have lived on several military bases, I was even born on one, and I can say that out of every base I've been to, I've never met a single local that didn't like the base's presence there.

And to address your statement about "responsibility", how is it America's sole responsibility to 'save' a country that is half way around the world?

Edit: to clarify, the only bases I've been to are those in Japan, so take that into account.


Well thanks for not dealing in ultimatums but America isn't welcome wherever it is and most of the time it is out of necessitous not because they wan't to sell out local power to gain some military protection.


How it is your responsibility? I don't know... invading a country and letting near a million civilians die because of a revenge-war seems like a good reason to why you shouldn't let it all be in vain; If it collapses we'll have a even worse situation than we have now.
So ofcourse it is your responsibility. It wasn't your responsibility to go to war with them, it is your responsibility to rebuild them.
My Comment Doesnt Matter Because No One Reads It
BeJe77
Profile Joined April 2006
United States377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:44:54
October 21 2011 20:43 GMT
#155
@Krehlmar, actually that's pretty over-generalized statement when you say "American isn't welcome wherever it is". Being that I am one of the people who has been helped by the American military. For as many people that hate America, you will find an equally if not larger number of people that love it for all the help they have been given by the American's.

I don't think that America has any responsibility to Iraq. Like I have said in another post above, America has done all it could in Iraq, any more will just generate more hate. The people who helped liberate Iraq from Saddam, were treated as heroes, but those liberators have now become the occupiers in the eyes of the people. No amount of help will change that in their eyes. Any help the U.S. gives to Iraq government will make their government look weak and a puppet of the U.S., the best thing the U.S. can do is withdraw and extend a hand of help if they want it.

The three ethnic groups in Iraq have hated each other for centuries, the country never has been stable, even Saddam struggled to keep the country stable and often resorted to violence to keep it together.

As for the civilian casualties, it's war. It's what all future wars will look like, because combat will be done in urban areas, avoiding civilian casualties will be impossible, especially if your opponent has no remorse in using civilians as cover while shooting at you.
xHassassin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States270 Posts
October 21 2011 20:51 GMT
#156
So we're out of Iraq but we're still in Afghanistan?

:|
OsoVega
Profile Joined December 2010
926 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-21 20:55:02
October 21 2011 20:54 GMT
#157
On October 22 2011 04:32 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Before departing we were treated to the excessive hospitality of the USO crew. Tables of items free for the taking were set up; snacks and food, cards, toothpaste, and various assorted novelties to appease the occasionally suspended fear and reluctance of soldiers preparing for war. We were given a quick briefing. They collected all lighters and knives before allowing us to board the plane with our semi-automatic rifles in hand. On the way to the plane we were ambushed by eagerly patriotic Americans handing out and waving American flags, and chanting the feel-good cliché mantras of "Thank you, Good luck, Thank you for serving, Take care..." As though the enlistment bonus were not sufficient compensation.

Life on a cot in a large tent with three inches of personal space in every direction is surprisingly palatable contrasted with the vicious heat outside. Some soldiers even quit smoking to avoid standing in the heat. What for years tobacco cessation campaigns, classes, and laws failed to do, the Kuwaiti sun accomplished in less than a week. While in the grasp of the heat, all desires are leveled and replaced with a singular purpose: to escape it.

We flew over the Iraqi desert. Upon first sight, a landscape devoid of mountains or trees, only plumes of black smoke rising from a barren, yellow wasteland. This is a land forsaken by God. An inhospitable and tortured land, who returns the suffering it has received upon its inhabitants. Upon first sight of this wasteland, extremism did not appear so extreme. Here, extremes are the norm. Extreme temperatures, disparity between worthless dust and black gold, religious and political civil war.

The FOB was a world of dust, concrete, and machinery, a constant hum of generators and the percussion of rotor blades chopping through the air. My only connection to the past was the cloudless blue sky. I walked into the first portable toilet I found and saw graffiti and words scrawled across the walls. “I hate this place!” It was a warm welcome. As I walked back to the tent, a soldier spoke to me.

“Welcome to Kalsu. Hey, it could be worse man. Just keep lying to yourself everyday and tell yourself you are doing great things.”

Who the hell is this guy talking to me? I just ignored him and walked on.

The next day we rested in the tent. One of the air conditioners was broken, and we lay on our bunks sweating, the noon sun beating down on the heavy tarps above us. Finally, the stereotypically recourseful Gutierrez managed to get the air working again, and we had a few minutes of cool air, until the power went out and we had to sweat it out again.

This is going to be rough, I thought. This is going to be a very long deployment. We walked to chow and counted the craters in the ground where mortars had struck. Back in the tent, the silence of the night was periodically broken by the loud crack of artillery. Bright red flares lit up the sky and slowly floated down, faded away and returned the darkness for only a moment.

You didn't admit things were bad. You were an inferior person if you ever complained. If you were macho-tough, nothing bothered you, and you never thought bad thoughts. It was a brilliant system of self-deception. It was a cliché to repeat over and over again; “When something needs to be done, I don’t complain, I just do it. Because complaining doesn’t change anything.”

The first time I was shot at, it was by British soldiers. As their convoy rode by in the distance, someone on the FOB did a test fire. Apparently they didn't know the FOB was there, so they fired back. The military was like any other goverment institution: it exemplified incompetence.

The Iraqis hit us at noon every day. It was like clockwork. They were trying to hit the dining facility at lunch time, killing as many of us as they could. Luckily, they were a horrible shot. And still, we lined up every day and crowded into the building, playing russian roulette in exchange for a meal. It wasn't like we could go to McDonalds instead. You hear the whistling crescendo, and wait for the dart to hit the board. We know when and where they plan to attack every day, and yet we can't stop them? What the fuck is this?

Finally they succeeded. You walk into the DFAC, and a huge gaping hole sits where the wall and roof used to be. Sunlight pours in, the flourescent lights flicker, and the tiles on the ceiling hang down in disarray. The mirrors in the gym next door were all shattered. But of course, it wasn't the loss of infrastructure we cared about.

The West lives in a bubble. A stable, calm, bubble, green with well-watered lawns. A convenient bubble, where they can be free to make laws and rules and worry themselves with moral indignation at all they see wrong with the world. All values and morals and ethics had been drilled into me since birth, but in truth such things were nothing more than wishful thinking, human delusions to contrast reality. At bottom, life is survival, and nothing more. That is part of growing up, in a way, parting with all of the well intentioned bullshit that society stuffs into the youth. They all want their children to believe in Santa Claus. But here, I was seeing life and the world as it truly was outside of the bubbles: imperfect, messy, violent, ruthless, dirty, poor. It was almost liberating.

How is life survival and nothing more? I would say that life is about much more than survival, namely happiness. In order to best achieve happiness, you have to live your life by a code that will make you as happy as possible, i.e. a code of ethics and morals. How is the West a bubble just because it is better off than other places? It seems to me that it is just different and better.
Eisregen
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany967 Posts
October 21 2011 20:58 GMT
#158
I would not say that the "west" is better to be honest. I am sure there are enough people living much more "poorer" lives and being much more happier than we are =)
Photo-Noob@ http://www.flickr.com/photos/eisregen1983/
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
October 21 2011 21:00 GMT
#159
On October 22 2011 05:54 OsoVega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2011 04:32 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Before departing we were treated to the excessive hospitality of the USO crew. Tables of items free for the taking were set up; snacks and food, cards, toothpaste, and various assorted novelties to appease the occasionally suspended fear and reluctance of soldiers preparing for war. We were given a quick briefing. They collected all lighters and knives before allowing us to board the plane with our semi-automatic rifles in hand. On the way to the plane we were ambushed by eagerly patriotic Americans handing out and waving American flags, and chanting the feel-good cliché mantras of "Thank you, Good luck, Thank you for serving, Take care..." As though the enlistment bonus were not sufficient compensation.

Life on a cot in a large tent with three inches of personal space in every direction is surprisingly palatable contrasted with the vicious heat outside. Some soldiers even quit smoking to avoid standing in the heat. What for years tobacco cessation campaigns, classes, and laws failed to do, the Kuwaiti sun accomplished in less than a week. While in the grasp of the heat, all desires are leveled and replaced with a singular purpose: to escape it.

We flew over the Iraqi desert. Upon first sight, a landscape devoid of mountains or trees, only plumes of black smoke rising from a barren, yellow wasteland. This is a land forsaken by God. An inhospitable and tortured land, who returns the suffering it has received upon its inhabitants. Upon first sight of this wasteland, extremism did not appear so extreme. Here, extremes are the norm. Extreme temperatures, disparity between worthless dust and black gold, religious and political civil war.

The FOB was a world of dust, concrete, and machinery, a constant hum of generators and the percussion of rotor blades chopping through the air. My only connection to the past was the cloudless blue sky. I walked into the first portable toilet I found and saw graffiti and words scrawled across the walls. “I hate this place!” It was a warm welcome. As I walked back to the tent, a soldier spoke to me.

“Welcome to Kalsu. Hey, it could be worse man. Just keep lying to yourself everyday and tell yourself you are doing great things.”

Who the hell is this guy talking to me? I just ignored him and walked on.

The next day we rested in the tent. One of the air conditioners was broken, and we lay on our bunks sweating, the noon sun beating down on the heavy tarps above us. Finally, the stereotypically recourseful Gutierrez managed to get the air working again, and we had a few minutes of cool air, until the power went out and we had to sweat it out again.

This is going to be rough, I thought. This is going to be a very long deployment. We walked to chow and counted the craters in the ground where mortars had struck. Back in the tent, the silence of the night was periodically broken by the loud crack of artillery. Bright red flares lit up the sky and slowly floated down, faded away and returned the darkness for only a moment.

You didn't admit things were bad. You were an inferior person if you ever complained. If you were macho-tough, nothing bothered you, and you never thought bad thoughts. It was a brilliant system of self-deception. It was a cliché to repeat over and over again; “When something needs to be done, I don’t complain, I just do it. Because complaining doesn’t change anything.”

The first time I was shot at, it was by British soldiers. As their convoy rode by in the distance, someone on the FOB did a test fire. Apparently they didn't know the FOB was there, so they fired back. The military was like any other goverment institution: it exemplified incompetence.

The Iraqis hit us at noon every day. It was like clockwork. They were trying to hit the dining facility at lunch time, killing as many of us as they could. Luckily, they were a horrible shot. And still, we lined up every day and crowded into the building, playing russian roulette in exchange for a meal. It wasn't like we could go to McDonalds instead. You hear the whistling crescendo, and wait for the dart to hit the board. We know when and where they plan to attack every day, and yet we can't stop them? What the fuck is this?

Finally they succeeded. You walk into the DFAC, and a huge gaping hole sits where the wall and roof used to be. Sunlight pours in, the flourescent lights flicker, and the tiles on the ceiling hang down in disarray. The mirrors in the gym next door were all shattered. But of course, it wasn't the loss of infrastructure we cared about.

The West lives in a bubble. A stable, calm, bubble, green with well-watered lawns. A convenient bubble, where they can be free to make laws and rules and worry themselves with moral indignation at all they see wrong with the world. All values and morals and ethics had been drilled into me since birth, but in truth such things were nothing more than wishful thinking, human delusions to contrast reality. At bottom, life is survival, and nothing more. That is part of growing up, in a way, parting with all of the well intentioned bullshit that society stuffs into the youth. They all want their children to believe in Santa Claus. But here, I was seeing life and the world as it truly was outside of the bubbles: imperfect, messy, violent, ruthless, dirty, poor. It was almost liberating.

How is life survival and nothing more? I would say that life is about much more than survival, namely happiness. In order to best achieve happiness, you have to live your life by a code that will make you as happy as possible, i.e. a code of ethics and morals. How is the West a bubble just because it is better off than other places? It seems to me that it is just different and better.

It's as he says, at the bottom life is about survival. It's only when you're not worried about living to see the next day that you worry about if your life is making you happy or not.
Moderator
Scrimpton
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom465 Posts
October 21 2011 21:04 GMT
#160
On October 22 2011 02:01 Josri wrote:
Fucking finally, you had no business there


On the contrary, sir, It was all business
Protoss is the only race with "pro" in it
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