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On December 16 2011 06:01 acker wrote:
How many security contractors and military bases are we leaving there for the time being?
I had read 15,000 for embassy detail (largest in world), and a supposedly fully trained Iraqi defense force.
For the people who say it was about oil, you know most US oil comes from Canada right? I think I read somewhere that only about 11% of American oil comes from the middle east. The rest is Canada, the US itself, South America, etc..
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US invasion of Iraq 2003 was a terrible and unjust event, but I'd like to point out that everyone who claimed that the war was unwinnable, that Iraq was "another Vietnam", that the insurgency could never be broken, well, they were all wrong. It's such a tired old cliché that insurgencies are superior to modern militaries, not to mention completely false.
Of course, nobody will admit they were wrong about claiming the war was unwinnable, they'll just quietly switch stances from "we can never win" to "maybe we won, but it was not worth it"... actually, they probably won't even use the word "win".
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On December 16 2011 06:07 Rob28 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:01 acker wrote:
How many security contractors and military bases are we leaving there for the time being? I had read 15,000 for embassy detail (largest in world), and a supposedly fully trained Iraqi defense force. For the people who say it was about oil, you know most US oil comes from Canada right? I think I read somewhere that only about 11% of American oil comes from the middle east. The rest is Canada, the US itself, South America, etc..
you do realize that it wasnt about government but rather about special interests? Contracts- rebuilding, security, oil as well. Most notably Haliburton and Blackwater.
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Is this the same dude who promised to close Guantanamo? Like 3 years ago....
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Well that's good to hear, I hope it actually happens.
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On December 16 2011 06:07 Rob28 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:01 acker wrote:
How many security contractors and military bases are we leaving there for the time being? I had read 15,000 for embassy detail (largest in world), and a supposedly fully trained Iraqi defense force. For the people who say it was about oil, you know most US oil comes from Canada right? I think I read somewhere that only about 11% of American oil comes from the middle east. The rest is Canada, the US itself, South America, etc..
Oil corporations have made an incredibly colossal profit off of contracts made during the war. That's what matters, not percentages of where oil comes from. Importing oil doesn't profit or benefit those corporations, in fact, it loses them business, so yes, the fact that oil-related matters were such a huge benefit to foreign, particularly US/UK, corporations in this war contradicts your point. Also, even before the 2003 war, there were discussions among oil firms about taking over oil in Iraq. Here's what a simple google search can bring up.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/secret-memos-expose-link-between-oil-firms-and-invasion-of-iraq-2269610.html
And following the '91 war, the US got oil for practically free from Iraq for 12 years. Funny how the second war came about when the Iraqis started trading oil on the Euro to scratch out a few more pennies from under the sanctions that deprived them of making negligibly more than nothing on exporting oil, and basically denied them any sort of trade otherwise. More importantly, other Arab nations were strongly considering doing the same before the '03 war, and that surely would have killed the petrodollar if it happened.
On December 16 2011 06:32 zezamer wrote:
Is this the same dude who promised to close Guantanamo? Like 3 years ago....
No. It was actually Bush who promised to withdraw from Iraq.
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On December 16 2011 06:07 Rob28 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:01 acker wrote:
How many security contractors and military bases are we leaving there for the time being? I had read 15,000 for embassy detail (largest in world), and a supposedly fully trained Iraqi defense force. For the people who say it was about oil, you know most US oil comes from Canada right? I think I read somewhere that only about 11% of American oil comes from the middle east. The rest is Canada, the US itself, South America, etc..
Regardless, google iraq oil contract
It becomes pretty obvious why we were in Iraq.
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Military out,private companys in
Usa is still involved in iraq in a big way, just like europe btw
Annyway, gratz to all soldiers who can go home now
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On December 16 2011 06:18 Warlock40 wrote:
US invasion of Iraq 2003 was a terrible and unjust event, but I'd like to point out that everyone who claimed that the war was unwinnable, that Iraq was "another Vietnam", that the insurgency could never be broken, well, they were all wrong. It's such a tired old cliché that insurgencies are superior to modern militaries, not to mention completely false.
Of course, nobody will admit they were wrong about claiming the war was unwinnable, they'll just quietly switch stances from "we can never win" to "maybe we won, but it was not worth it"... actually, they probably won't even use the word "win".
ask the American Military Complex and private corporations involved with Iraq, they won big, that is all. 911 is extremely suspicious, The Anthrax scare soon after pointed directly to a US government military building in the US, the reason to go into iraq was a lie, and soon the reason to go into Iran will be repeated daily until public opinion seems just right...
The whole damned thing stinks...
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On December 16 2011 09:35 Dryzt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:18 Warlock40 wrote:
US invasion of Iraq 2003 was a terrible and unjust event, but I'd like to point out that everyone who claimed that the war was unwinnable, that Iraq was "another Vietnam", that the insurgency could never be broken, well, they were all wrong. It's such a tired old cliché that insurgencies are superior to modern militaries, not to mention completely false.
Of course, nobody will admit they were wrong about claiming the war was unwinnable, they'll just quietly switch stances from "we can never win" to "maybe we won, but it was not worth it"... actually, they probably won't even use the word "win". ask the American Military Complex and private corporations involved with Iraq, they won big, that is all. 911 is extremely suspicious, The Anthrax scare soon after pointed directly to a US government military building in the US, the reason to go into iraq was a lie, and soon the reason to go into Iran will be repeated daily until public opinion seems just right... The whole damned thing stinks...
From everything i've seen since 2003, it's either going to be that the US tries the same for Iran as they did for Iraq, or the entire Middle East is going to see the changes currently happening because of the Libyan and Egyptian uprisings.
Im glad to see these countries' actively taking a stand, fighting for their own freedom and ultimately showing that the US and its UN allies arn't going to be needed everywhere
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On December 16 2011 09:42 Shortynut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:35 Dryzt wrote:On December 16 2011 06:18 Warlock40 wrote:
US invasion of Iraq 2003 was a terrible and unjust event, but I'd like to point out that everyone who claimed that the war was unwinnable, that Iraq was "another Vietnam", that the insurgency could never be broken, well, they were all wrong. It's such a tired old cliché that insurgencies are superior to modern militaries, not to mention completely false.
Of course, nobody will admit they were wrong about claiming the war was unwinnable, they'll just quietly switch stances from "we can never win" to "maybe we won, but it was not worth it"... actually, they probably won't even use the word "win". ask the American Military Complex and private corporations involved with Iraq, they won big, that is all. 911 is extremely suspicious, The Anthrax scare soon after pointed directly to a US government military building in the US, the reason to go into iraq was a lie, and soon the reason to go into Iran will be repeated daily until public opinion seems just right... The whole damned thing stinks... From everything i've seen since 2003, it's either going to be that the US tries the same for Iran as they did for Iraq, or the entire Middle East is going to see the changes currently happening because of the Libyan and Egyptian uprisings. Im glad to see these countries' actively taking a stand, fighting for their own freedom and ultimately showing that the US and its UN allies arn't going to be needed everywhere
the Islamic brotherhood, a militant group, took over Libya. Though im sure some Libyan citizens wanted Gaddafi out, the Islamic brotherhood is basically the same as what the Taliban was in Afghanistan. The day Gaddafi was killed the brotherhood announced to the world that they are invoking sharia law on Libya...
Under Gaddafi women could vote, go to school, were not forced to wear religious head gear and could divorce, under Sharia law all of this is void. Again the whole Libyan "uprising" reeks because Libya is full of not only oil but gold.
Egypt is another story, we actually got to see the citizens do their protests on TV and heard their stories. Mubarak more or less stepped down, no militants attacking the country. Egypt is what a citizens uprisings look like, Libya, not so much.
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Bush made the deal to exit the war by the end of 2011, however both the Bush and Obama wanted to extend military presence in Iraq, and for good reason. Unfortunately, Iraq was insistent that they honour the original agreement with Bush (from 2008?)
Iraq is very unstable right now. Sunni and Shiite Muslims are vying for control of the Iraq government. If Shiites gain control, Iran will have an even stronger bond or influence over Iraq than ever before.
I'm not sure who said it, but Bush's war on Iraq and removal of Saddam has arguably strengthened two of America's worst enemies.
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On December 16 2011 10:10 Dryzt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 09:42 Shortynut wrote:On December 16 2011 09:35 Dryzt wrote:On December 16 2011 06:18 Warlock40 wrote:
US invasion of Iraq 2003 was a terrible and unjust event, but I'd like to point out that everyone who claimed that the war was unwinnable, that Iraq was "another Vietnam", that the insurgency could never be broken, well, they were all wrong. It's such a tired old cliché that insurgencies are superior to modern militaries, not to mention completely false.
Of course, nobody will admit they were wrong about claiming the war was unwinnable, they'll just quietly switch stances from "we can never win" to "maybe we won, but it was not worth it"... actually, they probably won't even use the word "win". ask the American Military Complex and private corporations involved with Iraq, they won big, that is all. 911 is extremely suspicious, The Anthrax scare soon after pointed directly to a US government military building in the US, the reason to go into iraq was a lie, and soon the reason to go into Iran will be repeated daily until public opinion seems just right... The whole damned thing stinks... From everything i've seen since 2003, it's either going to be that the US tries the same for Iran as they did for Iraq, or the entire Middle East is going to see the changes currently happening because of the Libyan and Egyptian uprisings. Im glad to see these countries' actively taking a stand, fighting for their own freedom and ultimately showing that the US and its UN allies arn't going to be needed everywhere the Islamic brotherhood, a militant group, took over Libya. Though im sure some Libyan citizens wanted Gaddafi out, the Islamic brotherhood is basically the same as what the Taliban was in Afghanistan. The day Gaddafi was killed the brotherhood announced to the world that they are invoking sharia law on Libya... Under Gaddafi women could vote, go to school, were not forced to wear religious head gear and could divorce, under Sharia law all of this is void. Again the whole Libyan "uprising" reeks because Libya is full of not only oil but gold. Egypt is another story, we actually got to see the citizens do their protests on TV and heard their stories. Mubarak more or less stepped down, no militants attacking the country. Egypt is what a citizens uprisings look like, Libya, not so much.
And yet despite this, the Muslim Brotherhood is expected to take over in Egypt in the upcoming 'elections'. :S. Well, with secularism in Iraq dying thanks to Khomeini's influence (which exists to this day; go see the Shi'a) and the fact a former terror group (Islamic Dawa) rules there now and things look like they're Islamifying further, and secularism about to die in Egypt if the Brotherhood wins the 'elections', we can kiss secularism in the far less influential countries like Syria, Tunisia, Algeria, Jordan, and Lebanon good bye. What does that leave us with in the Mideast/N. Africa? Turkey?
Also, I don't know if MB is in Libya, but I know that Libyan Islamist Fighting Group and Al Qaeda in the Maghreb are. Either way, Islamofascists took over Libya.
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The last soldier just crossed the border into Kuwait according to CNN.
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I'm glad the U.S. is finally getting out of this mess of a war. Hopefully we can analyze the cost savings now that we aren't funding anymore bases and put it towards our growing deficit
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I think theyve comlpetely moved out all US troops in Iraq last week, right?
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On December 19 2011 16:55 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
I think theyve comlpetely moved out all US troops in Iraq last week, right?
That's what I heard.
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On December 16 2011 06:07 Rob28 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:01 acker wrote:
How many security contractors and military bases are we leaving there for the time being? I had read 15,000 for embassy detail (largest in world), and a supposedly fully trained Iraqi defense force. For the people who say it was about oil, you know most US oil comes from Canada right? I think I read somewhere that only about 11% of American oil comes from the middle east. The rest is Canada, the US itself, South America, etc..
It was said they had like 700,000 Iraqi defense forces, but that they weren't all fully trained, and would be getting more help from security contractors in that way as well. There was video somewhere of PMCs also being used to help police certain areas. (I'll try to find it again.)
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EPT
