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On October 18 2011 04:49 beachbeachy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 04:48 SupLilSon wrote:On October 18 2011 04:41 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 18 2011 04:38 SupLilSon wrote:On October 18 2011 04:30 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 18 2011 04:23 SupLilSon wrote:On October 18 2011 04:20 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 18 2011 03:59 SupLilSon wrote:On October 18 2011 03:45 AutomatonOmega wrote:On October 17 2011 19:34 rhmiller907 wrote:I smoke pot occasionally and that hasn't stopped me from going to school or work. In my mind if someone can use drugs and still be a "productive" member of society then who cares. My friends dad smoked crack but he also owned his own business ran it quite successfully. My parents used to smoke pot and both of them are very successful. I myself drink alcohol smoke cigarettes and pot. I also go to school have two jobs and still find time to play SC2. It's all about moderation  . People that keep making this argument need to keep one thing in mind: The thing that is 'bad' about pot are the symptoms of its addiction, and addiction is SPECIFICALLY a genetic condition that applies to all such behaviors, and is qualified by the associated negative symptoms. If you don't have the genetic addictive condition, you won't get addicted (though you can still develop a dependency) and if you personally suffer no ill effects in your personal or professional life for smoking pot, then there's no problem. There's a lot of people out there who both have the addictive biology and suffer all the major consequences for extended pot use, and those are the ones that are 'addicts' in the literal sense. Sorry but you really need to provide a SOURCE to back up what you say. Because I'm fairly certain that you are wrong. On top of that, addictiveness is a much more complicated phenomenon than what you suggest. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=54633Read the whole thing. Really? I'm glad I asked for a source because I would have never guessed who you were using for a "reliable source". You do realize that "Dr. Drew" is about as much as a legitimate doctor or scientific mind as Dr. Drew from TV or Howard Stern. He is a radio personality... FROM THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED: "The opinions expressed herein are the guest's alone and have not been reviewed by a WebMD physician. If you have questions about your health, you should consult your personal physician. This event is meant for informational purposes only." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_PinskyPretty sure he's more qualified than you. You of course can choose whether to disregard facts, but that's on a completely different axis. Yea, my dad is a Neurologist who graduated from Johns Hopkins Medical School and I am a Biology student at University of Maryland, studying under professors who actually work in the scientific field. I'll choose to believe them over him. I'm sorry but Dr. Drew is hardly a reliable source. And what do they say about addiction? Please, if I'm wrong to consider Drew Pinsky (A member of ASAM) a reliable source considering his background, feel free to, rather than flaming and trolling, educate. Addiction is not a completely genetic phenomenon. Yes, there is a large degree of genetic disposition involved, but it is not entirely governed by your DNA. Every substance has it's own addictive properties. Some substances are just chemically more addictive than others, regardless of the user. For example, caffeine and nicotine are among the most addictive substances whereas THC is among the least addictive. Furthermore, it is folly to completely disregard the nurture side. Your upbringing and environment can heavily influence whether or not something becomes an addiction. Also, almost anything can become an addiction, it doesn't have to have clear negative consequences. Some people are addicted to exercise, some people are addicted to food, some people are addicted to porn. So what makes something more 'addictive'? Isn't it the amount of serotonin or dopamine the drug makes the brain release?
As far as I know that determines each substances respective addictive property. I am trying to find the article I read for class but I am too disorganize :\. I'll try to find it soon.
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On October 18 2011 03:18 Laurence wrote:
Taking drugs is a "victimless crime?" How naive is that statement!
if i smoked pot right now.
Who am i hurting?
i suppose some of my family members might hurt cause my room will smell like pot for some time.
but thats fine. We will get over it.
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On October 18 2011 05:00 Microsloth wrote:
If I find out a person is a habitual drug user, (pot smoker we'll say) I'll hang out with them much less. If it's drugs worse than pot, they can find new drug friends. Cause I'm out.
If I wanted people to think I'm a hooker, I'd chill with Hookers all the time, and probably end up hookin' a bit. If I wanted them to think I was super into religion, I'd go to church all the time and chill with church folk. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
I don't want anyone to think I do drugs, so I a) don't do them and b) don't hang around people who do.
It's pretty cut and dry really. For me that is. This is coming from a guy who thinks smoking ANYthing is a completely stupid thing to do.
~my two cents~
You sound like an uptight prick to me.
Just my two cents.
Especially with the "what people think" line. You've got an overly aggitated view of users and it shows. I'd be willing to bet you have no first hand knowledge of what these chemicals do and/or been exposed to them. You're willing to write off an entirely too large section of the populace over a clash of views. It's childish and shows lack of tolerance, at the very least.
I see this a lot with people, especially those who tend to favor drinking over everything due to legality issues.
From first hand experience here, alcohol is easily the most intoxicating, dangerous and unhealthy thing for you.
I have never felt more out of control, more not myself, more dangerous and sick than on alcohol.
Being straight edge is fine, doing drugs is fine. Once again, the *person* and their *mind* should be all that matters. 9/10 times, you won't even know the person is on something.
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On October 18 2011 04:42 Ayabara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 04:36 Haemonculus wrote:On October 18 2011 04:35 Ayabara wrote:On October 18 2011 04:32 _-NoMaN-_ wrote:On October 17 2011 11:34 Antoine wrote:
people don't choose to be black or female.
they choose to use drugs/smoke/drink etc
this is the critical difference.
to address your above post, at some point the person made the choice to start. ^ this. I am surprised no-one has made this distinction yet. A gay person isn't gay if they never decide to have gay sex. Therefore, being gay is a choice! Just like being an addict is a choice! Does that make people who are celibate not straight? o.O Sarcasm! Straight people are straight. Gay people are gay. Addicts are addicts. They are all predetermined conditions, that is to say, there is no choice to be made. An addict is an addict for life, from the moment they are born to the day they die, they will struggle with their condition. And in what world, exactly, can anyone live in where people will go through their entire life without ever using a drug? Alcohol, medicinal opiates, marijuana... they are all very prevalent and most people use them without every having an addiction problem. Only those who are prone to addiction will become addicted. But I guess no one ever should use any mind altering drugs just to be safe!
Where's that Jackie Chan meme when you need it? Or is the confused psychologist one better?
You don't choose to start your sexual orientation. You choose to take your first harmful drug. You don't come out of the womb with the fate that you're going to become a heroin addict, and that your life will be over no matter what. You still make the conscious decision to start heroin, and that is the reason why it's your fault you went down that path to destruction, and why your analogy makes zero sense.
Maybe you get addicted, and the effect that drugs have on your body can't be helped by you. But you're still the idiot who tried them in the first place. You can't be a heroin addict if you never try heroin. If you're stupid enough to take the risk and try harmful drugs even once, be prepared to deal with the worst possible consequences (which include addiction). This isn't even remotely close to being gay, and I can't believe that you're saying "addiction and sexual orientation both have genetic components, so therefore addicts and gays can be equated." Worst. Non sequitur. Ever.
(And I'm not saying that it's impossible for there to be benefits of drugs. I'm merely saying that if you're going to take the risk in doing drugs, you need to be prepared to deal with any consequences, including addiction. You're making the conscious decision to take part in this experimentation. On the other hand, you're the still gay, regardless of whether or not you do anything about it.)
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I think this forum is predominately young nerdy males. In general, this type of person likes to play by the rules.
There's nothing wrong with that.
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Using drugs is a choice, being a black female isn't...
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On October 18 2011 05:02 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 03:18 Laurence wrote:
Taking drugs is a "victimless crime?" How naive is that statement! if i smoked pot right now. Who am i hurting? i suppose some of my family members might hurt cause my room will smell like pot for some time. but thats fine. We will get over it.
Your post:
"Who am I hurting"
::names people::
"We'll get over it."
Oh okay then?
But yes, pot is probably the least harmful drug (although any short-term effects that would alter your mind or body could harm others if you're dumb enough to drive a car while under the influence, just like driving drunk).
Also, isn't doing drugs not a victimless crime because *you're* a victim? You're destroying your body (certainly with the harder drugs over a long period of time, ignoring milder things like marijuana)?
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Of course it's wrong to be prejudiced against drug users. It is no different than being prejudiced against people that slur speech or walk funny. Now, it is wholly their choice to use drugs, but you are judging them all the same. Would I let my kid play with other kids that used drugs? No, because that is a lifestyle that I do not want my child falling into, but, I am not judging them and perhaps do not even dislike them; they just cannot hang out with my child because I do not agree with what they believe to be good choices.
The conclusion you come to in the OP is not quite right. I love that you realized you were prejudiced against drug users and have been looking at them in an unfair light, perhaps because of your past. But, to conclude that you should not even try to talk them out of changing is missing the mark. No more should we encourage drug use than we should encourage sticking our heads in the sand.
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On October 18 2011 05:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 05:02 VPCursed wrote:On October 18 2011 03:18 Laurence wrote:
Taking drugs is a "victimless crime?" How naive is that statement! if i smoked pot right now. Who am i hurting? i suppose some of my family members might hurt cause my room will smell like pot for some time. but thats fine. We will get over it. Your post: "Who am I hurting" ::names people:: "We'll get over it." Oh okay then? But yes, pot is probably the least harmful drug (although any short-term effects that would alter your mind or body could harm others if you're dumb enough to drive a car while under the influence, just like driving drunk). Also, isn't doing drugs not a victimless crime because *you're* a victim? You're destroying your body (certainly with the harder drugs over a long period of time, ignoring milder things like marijuana)?
As a lot of other people have already mentioned, and it really doesn't take a huge leap of common sense to see it... There are tons of legal ways to destroy your body, in must faster and more severe ways than ANY of the illegal drugs. Fatty Foods/Heart Disease, Cigarettes/Cancer. Obviously the government and general populace isn't against weed because it destroys your body.... herp derp
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Its probably already been said but my view is
Im not going to do them, and if you want to go for it. Don't try to force me into doing it and i won't say anything to you about it
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On October 18 2011 05:02 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 03:18 Laurence wrote:
Taking drugs is a "victimless crime?" How naive is that statement! if i smoked pot right now. Who am i hurting? i suppose some of my family members might hurt cause my room will smell like pot for some time. but thats fine. We will get over it.
I would think that the reason some people say that is not a victimless crime is because many many people die in countries that produce the drugs, also the people that sell the drugs and so on. The only way to solve that problem is to legalize it. not for all hard substances. but for Weed.
And also start using LCD inn psychology again. just as a side note 
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+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On October 18 2011 05:05 TheGlassface wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 18 2011 05:00 Microsloth wrote:
If I find out a person is a habitual drug user, (pot smoker we'll say) I'll hang out with them much less. If it's drugs worse than pot, they can find new drug friends. Cause I'm out.
If I wanted people to think I'm a hooker, I'd chill with Hookers all the time, and probably end up hookin' a bit. If I wanted them to think I was super into religion, I'd go to church all the time and chill with church folk. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
I don't want anyone to think I do drugs, so I a) don't do them and b) don't hang around people who do.
It's pretty cut and dry really. For me that is. This is coming from a guy who thinks smoking ANYthing is a completely stupid thing to do.
~my two cents~
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[quote]You sound like an uptight prick to me.
Just my two cents.
Especially with the "what people think" line. You've got an overly aggitated view of users and it shows. I'd be willing to bet you have no first hand knowledge of what these chemicals do and/or been exposed to them. You're willing to write off an entirely too large section of the populace over a clash of views. It's childish and shows lack of tolerance, at the very least.
I see this a lot with people, especially those who tend to favor drinking over everything due to legality issues.
From first hand experience here, alcohol is easily the most intoxicating, dangerous and unhealthy thing for you.
I have never felt more out of control, more not myself, more dangerous and sick than on alcohol.
Being straight edge is fine, doing drugs is fine. Once again, the *person* and their *mind* should be all that matters. 9/10 times, you won't even know the person is on something.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I've smoked pot before, and I won't deny it was a damn good time, however, to me, it wasn't worth it. Not worth the taste, the smell, the money, the social stigma.. not worth it at all. I respect your opinion, however, your "bet" isn't a good one. And yes, I'm definatly willing to write off that section of the populace. I'm cool with co-workers and other people not close to me doing it. All the power to them, but my choice is to avoid that lifestyle.
I'm not saying people are bad if they do drugs, but why would I surround myself with people that do them if I don't??? You can call me childish and tell me I have a lack of tolerance all you want. I'll admit I refuse to tolerate habitual drug users in my life. Alcohol is in there too. Have a few drinks, get a buzz, cool, np. But don't fucking drive, and if you're gonna get so shittered you can;t stand up..... what's the point???
See how I said all that without calling anyone a prick or childish? I can't spell for shit, but I'm pretty far from childish. Although, I love me some SC2.
~More cents~
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On October 18 2011 05:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 04:42 Ayabara wrote:On October 18 2011 04:36 Haemonculus wrote:On October 18 2011 04:35 Ayabara wrote:On October 18 2011 04:32 _-NoMaN-_ wrote:On October 17 2011 11:34 Antoine wrote:
people don't choose to be black or female.
they choose to use drugs/smoke/drink etc
this is the critical difference.
to address your above post, at some point the person made the choice to start. ^ this. I am surprised no-one has made this distinction yet. A gay person isn't gay if they never decide to have gay sex. Therefore, being gay is a choice! Just like being an addict is a choice! Does that make people who are celibate not straight? o.O Sarcasm! Straight people are straight. Gay people are gay. Addicts are addicts. They are all predetermined conditions, that is to say, there is no choice to be made. An addict is an addict for life, from the moment they are born to the day they die, they will struggle with their condition. And in what world, exactly, can anyone live in where people will go through their entire life without ever using a drug? Alcohol, medicinal opiates, marijuana... they are all very prevalent and most people use them without every having an addiction problem. Only those who are prone to addiction will become addicted. But I guess no one ever should use any mind altering drugs just to be safe! Where's that Jackie Chan meme when you need it? Or is the confused psychologist one better? You don't choose to start your sexual orientation. You choose to take your first harmful drug. You don't come out of the womb with the fate that you're going to become a heroin addict, and that your life will be over no matter what. You still make the conscious decision to start heroin, and that is the reason why it's your fault you went down that path to destruction, and why your analogy makes zero sense. Maybe you get addicted, and the effect that drugs have on your body can't be helped by you. But you're still the idiot who tried them in the first place. You can't be a heroin addict if you never try heroin. If you're stupid enough to take the risk and try harmful drugs even once, be prepared to deal with the worst possible consequences (which include addiction). This isn't even remotely close to being gay, and I can't believe that you're saying "addiction and sexual orientation both have genetic components, so therefore addicts and gays can be equated." Worst. Non sequitur. Ever. (And I'm not saying that it's impossible for there to be benefits of drugs. I'm merely saying that if you're going to take the risk in doing drugs, you need to be prepared to deal with any consequences, including addiction. You're making the conscious decision to take part in this experimentation. On the other hand, you're the still gay, regardless of whether or not you do anything about it.)
You clearly don't know anything about the science of addiction. It is a predetermined condition. It isn't a choice. And you don't find out until you are already addicted to something.
Very few people try heroin, because its widely known that it can be extremely dangerous. Those that are willing to take the risk for the possible effect aren't "stupid." They desire the described effect for a reason.
Heroin doesn't have a profound effect, really. It's far more subtle than alcohol. It makes one feel comfortable, the most comfortable you can imagine. Like, Christmas morning with the whole family by the fire in a blanket with hot chocolate level of comfort. Potential users seek the effect despite the threat that the use of the drug poses to their life because they are psychologically ill, not because they are 'stupid.' They are prepared to deal with the worst possible consequences because they don't care about them. They don't care about ruining their lives. All they care about is not feeling like shit anymore.
Happy, stable, healthy people almost never try heroin. In fact, most hardcore addicts are usually victims of severe child abuse or childhood trauma. Most addicts suffered from depression long before they even began using, and pursued drugs because of that depression.
And really, are you such an asshole that you would think someone is trash just because of one mistake? Trying a drug once and BAM their lives are fucked? Or would you hate them because they continue to use, even though overcoming addiction is one of the most difficult struggles a human can go through?
If so, you're a worse human being than any addict I've ever met.
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[QUOTE]On October 18 2011 05:25 Microsloth wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 18 2011 05:05 TheGlassface wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2011 05:00 Microsloth wrote:
If I find out a person is a habitual drug user, (pot smoker we'll say) I'll hang out with them much less. If it's drugs worse than pot, they can find new drug friends. Cause I'm out.
If I wanted people to think I'm a hooker, I'd chill with Hookers all the time, and probably end up hookin' a bit. If I wanted them to think I was super into religion, I'd go to church all the time and chill with church folk. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this.
I don't want anyone to think I do drugs, so I a) don't do them and b) don't hang around people who do.
It's pretty cut and dry really. For me that is. This is coming from a guy who thinks smoking ANYthing is a completely stupid thing to do.
~my two cents~
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[quote]You sound like an uptight prick to me.
Just my two cents.
Especially with the "what people think" line. You've got an overly aggitated view of users and it shows. I'd be willing to bet you have no first hand knowledge of what these chemicals do and/or been exposed to them. You're willing to write off an entirely too large section of the populace over a clash of views. It's childish and shows lack of tolerance, at the very least.
I see this a lot with people, especially those who tend to favor drinking over everything due to legality issues.
From first hand experience here, alcohol is easily the most intoxicating, dangerous and unhealthy thing for you.
I have never felt more out of control, more not myself, more dangerous and sick than on alcohol.
Being straight edge is fine, doing drugs is fine. Once again, the *person* and their *mind* should be all that matters. 9/10 times, you won't even know the person is on something.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I've smoked pot before, and I won't deny it was a damn good time, however, to me, it wasn't worth it. Not worth the taste, the smell, the money, the social stigma.. not worth it at all. I respect your opinion, however, your "bet" isn't a good one. And yes, I'm definatly willing to write off that section of the populace. I'm cool with co-workers and other people not close to me doing it. All the power to them, but my choice is to avoid that lifestyle.
I'm not saying people are bad if they do drugs, but why would I surround myself with people that do them if I don't??? You can call me childish and tell me I have a lack of tolerance all you want. I'll admit I refuse to tolerate habitual drug users in my life. Alcohol is in there too. Have a few drinks, get a buzz, cool, np. But don't fucking drive, and if you're gonna get so shittered you can;t stand up..... what's the point???
See how I said all that without calling anyone a prick or childish? I can't spell for shit, but I'm pretty far from childish. Although, I love me some SC2.
~More cents~
Well, I'll be...
I'll say this, from this post here, you seem like a reasonable person. Albeit a bit (IMO) needlessly anti-drugs, but then again you clearly have a legit mindset.
More power to you my man, GL HF.
...except on the SCII lol ;P
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The whole gay people are gay addicts are addicts thing is bullshit.
There are actually so many levels of bullshit in that statement it physically sickens me.
It's your choice to do drugs. I'm not going to publicly judge that choice, but I am going to say, it is YOUR choice.
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These types of threads always get out of control because at the end of it all, it's personal preference and it can be argued either way into the ground. That makes the poll irrelevant because 1 person could be 100% against it, others could say A and B are ok but not the rest, etc.
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Well, I'll be...
I'll say this, from this post here, you seem like a reasonable person. Albeit a bit (IMO) needlessly anti-drugs, but then again you clearly have a legit mindset.
More power to you my man, GL HF.
...except on the SCII lol ;P
See, these are the type of posts that don't happen on other forums  Go go gadget TL
We're cool, but if I see you on the ladder, to steal a line from MC, " I keel you "
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On October 17 2011 11:30 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:29 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 11:28 TheLOLas wrote:
I suppose that if someone tells me that they use drugs ( such as pot, meth, crack, or anything else ) i wouldn't want to be around them. and therefore I would be prejudiced. Do you think it's prejudice? Or do you somehow justify not wanting to be around them? If I said "I don't want to be around Mike because he's black," that's wrong. If I say "I don't want to be around Mike because he smokes pot," is that just as bad? He can change being a pot head.
I think this post sums up the entire argument. One cannot change race, cannot easily change gender, generally cannot change sexual orientation, cannot change ethnic background, and generally cannot change physical or mental disability. Someone can change whether or not they use drugs.
Is it judging the person? Yes. Is it discrimination? No. Discrimination involves treating someone different based on things they likely cannot change.
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On October 18 2011 05:33 Trentelshark wrote:
These types of threads always get out of control because at the end of it all, it's personal preference and it can be argued either way into the ground. That makes the poll irrelevant because 1 person could be 100% against it, others could say A and B are ok but not the rest, etc.
Yeah it's personal choice but there are so many misinformed people in here going on long rants on things they couldn't be more wrong about..half this thread is incredibly inaccurate about weed, no wonder it can't be legalized when you've got massive retards who listen to what the news and their parents tell them, let alone real facts.
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On October 17 2011 11:30 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2011 11:29 UmiNotsuki wrote:On October 17 2011 11:28 TheLOLas wrote:
I suppose that if someone tells me that they use drugs ( such as pot, meth, crack, or anything else ) i wouldn't want to be around them. and therefore I would be prejudiced. Do you think it's prejudice? Or do you somehow justify not wanting to be around them? If I said "I don't want to be around Mike because he's black," that's wrong. If I say "I don't want to be around Mike because he smokes pot," is that just as bad? He can change being a pot head.
Smoking pot isn't an inherently bad thing. Why should he change it? Just to make judgmental shitheads like you happy?
Yes, it is a prejudice, it's application of a negative stereotype to someone without any knowledge of their actual behaviors.
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EPT
