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United States7483 Posts
On January 06 2012 15:38 EternaLLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 14:47 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 14:38 OsoVega wrote:On January 06 2012 14:27 Haemonculus wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. There were school counties in Georgia and Mississippi holding racially segregated proms as late as 2008. Minority students are prohibited from attending "white prom". These states absolutely might pass some crazy legislation. And people like Ron Paul would do nothing to stop it. Just read his 'We the People Act' which is a clear violation of the First Amendment. Wow that's pretty fucked up. Although it doesn't violate the first amendment because the first amendment only says "Congress shall make no law..." Come to think of it, I never considered that state legislatures could basically do whatever under strict interpretation. That's really scary. Yea, now I sort of understand why Jon Stewart asked him if he would have preferred the Articles of Confederation. It is, but you have to think of states as capitalism in government. 50 states compete with each other, and if states are really going to be that draconian and backwater, they're going to quickly find themselves in bad shape, as everyone but the most ignorant people leave for somewhere better.
States don't have free entry and exit.
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United States7483 Posts
On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. Show nested quote +
Just to clarify, conservatism isn't about limited government, but rather a continuation and protection of traditional programs and culture. At this point, conservatism in the U.S. would be more along the lines of prohibiting gay marriage, upholding SS and Medicare, rolling back the healthcare legislation, celebrating judeo-christian values, and keeping a strong military.
May I just say that I'm really sick of this "Judeo-Christian" bullshit. It's like you want to say how Christian America should be but you don't want to sound anti-semetic because Jews get this weird exception clause. Judeo-Christian values is bull. None of the founders were Jewish, nearly all of them were secularists, and many of them were Deists. Where the hell did we get Judeo- from? It's a secular country and always has been. Why not Monotheist values? Oh right, we want to differentiate from those muslims, don't we?
Is there an *applause* emote? Ah, found it 
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On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. Show nested quote +
Just to clarify, conservatism isn't about limited government, but rather a continuation and protection of traditional programs and culture. At this point, conservatism in the U.S. would be more along the lines of prohibiting gay marriage, upholding SS and Medicare, rolling back the healthcare legislation, celebrating judeo-christian values, and keeping a strong military.
May I just say that I'm really sick of this "Judeo-Christian" bullshit. It's like you want to say how Christian America should be but you don't want to sound anti-semetic because Jews get this weird exception clause. Judeo-Christian values is bull. None of the founders were Jewish, nearly all of them were secularists, and many of them were Deists. Where the hell did we get Judeo- from? It's a secular country and always has been. Why not Monotheist values? Oh right, we want to differentiate from those muslims, don't we?
Don't get mad at me. I'm not the one who slowly turned the culture of the U.S. into what it is. Judeo-christian describes and ethics system that has largely influenced politics and culture since the 1950's. It's the same general culture that put "under God" in the pledge and plops down the 10 Commandments on their courthouse lawns. Conservatism isn't about what the FOUNDERS did, but the culture that is currently present, like an active resistance to new ideas and changing what is now. Back in the 60's, conservatism was about segregation of many kinds and a continued respect of state's rights. Back in the 30s, it would be considered in line with protectionism, isolationism, and social Darwinism, marked with high tariffs on imports to protect local business and a great feeling of success being driven by superior traits and hard work.
Today, it's a mix of values that were created to differentiate ourselves from "commies" from the 50's-70's (this includes religion) and the economic ideals of the 80's. No matter how it's masked and argued, that's essentially where it all came from. Don't get mad at me for the way the core voting block thinks.
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The U.S. should change their emblem from an eagle to a condom, because it more accurately reflects the government's political stance. A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of dicks, and gives everyone a sense of security while you're being screwed.
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On January 06 2012 14:38 OsoVega wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 14:27 Haemonculus wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
I remember you from earlier debates vega. Why do we need to defend Israel again?
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. There were school counties in Georgia and Mississippi holding racially segregated proms as late as 2008. Minority students are prohibited from attending "white prom". These states absolutely might pass some crazy legislation. And people like Ron Paul would do nothing to stop it. Just read his 'We the People Act' which is a clear violation of the First Amendment.
I remember you from earlier Vega. Why do we need to defend Israel again?
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On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. Show nested quote +
Just to clarify, conservatism isn't about limited government, but rather a continuation and protection of traditional programs and culture. At this point, conservatism in the U.S. would be more along the lines of prohibiting gay marriage, upholding SS and Medicare, rolling back the healthcare legislation, celebrating judeo-christian values, and keeping a strong military.
May I just say that I'm really sick of this "Judeo-Christian" bullshit. It's like you want to say how Christian America should be but you don't want to sound anti-semetic because Jews get this weird exception clause. Judeo-Christian values is bull. None of the founders were Jewish, nearly all of them were secularists, and many of them were Deists. Where the hell did we get Judeo- from? It's a secular country and always has been. Why not Monotheist values? Oh right, we want to differentiate from those muslims, don't we?
Because the Old testament is the Torah. The entire bible is about Jews. Gods chosen people are the Jews. Jesus is the king of the Jews (according to christians). Everywhere you read in the bible it's always about the Jews. The only difference between Jews and Christians is christians say Jesus is the prophesied savor and king of the Jews (and other minor details that have to do with Jesus, like saying you can eat pork because methods of curing the meat had been discovered). That difference is enough to separate the two religions (also the fact that many jews and jewish by decent, while most christians are nonjewish).
They created a secular government, for a religious people. Here is a John Steward interview which might interest you. And you can always go to his website where he has his 17000 founding documents.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--1
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--2
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--1
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--2
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--3
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Here is a John Steward interview which might interest you.
Here is a John Steward interview
John Steward interview
John Steward
Wut
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I keep hearing of people who were at the caucuses saying that votes were plainly faked . In 3 regions ... Well, only speculation from my pov , but maybe someone has the time to research it thoroughly because I don't really have the time and motivation with the shitty exams coming soon -_-
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"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that." - Rick Santorum
Gotta love the GOP commitment to that "small government" thing they keep talking about
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On January 06 2012 22:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that." - Rick Santorum
Gotta love the GOP commitment to that "small government" thing they keep talking about
Just small enough to fit it inside bedrooms everywhere.
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On January 06 2012 22:22 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 22:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that." - Rick Santorum
Gotta love the GOP commitment to that "small government" thing they keep talking about Just small enough to fit it inside bedrooms everywhere.
He's just protecting families. Right on him. I remember when my family was torn apart by sodomy. I'll never forget when my home was broken into in the dead of night. Being dragged out of my room onto the porch and forced to watch a man sodomize his many wives. Our family was never the same.
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On January 06 2012 20:37 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument.
Just to clarify, conservatism isn't about limited government, but rather a continuation and protection of traditional programs and culture. At this point, conservatism in the U.S. would be more along the lines of prohibiting gay marriage, upholding SS and Medicare, rolling back the healthcare legislation, celebrating judeo-christian values, and keeping a strong military.
May I just say that I'm really sick of this "Judeo-Christian" bullshit. It's like you want to say how Christian America should be but you don't want to sound anti-semetic because Jews get this weird exception clause. Judeo-Christian values is bull. None of the founders were Jewish, nearly all of them were secularists, and many of them were Deists. Where the hell did we get Judeo- from? It's a secular country and always has been. Why not Monotheist values? Oh right, we want to differentiate from those muslims, don't we? Because the Old testament is the Torah. The entire bible is about Jews. Gods chosen people are the Jews. Jesus is the king of the Jews (according to christians). Everywhere you read in the bible it's always about the Jews. The only difference between Jews and Christians is christians say Jesus is the prophesied savor and king of the Jews (and other minor details that have to do with Jesus, like saying you can eat pork because methods of curing the meat had been discovered). That difference is enough to separate the two religions (also the fact that many jews and jewish by decent, while most christians are nonjewish). They created a secular government, for a religious people. Here is a John Steward interview which might interest you. And you can always go to his website where he has his 17000 founding documents. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--1http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--2http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--1http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--2http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--3
No. Sorry, but that is absolutely not what it's about. Having a common heritage would still make calling it Christian values completely accurate. That is not why they put Judeo in there. And there are significant differences between Jews and christians beside kosherness. How about the whole Hell thing?
The fact is that this is coming from very intolerant people who are uncomfortable with different people like gays and Muslims. However, ever since ww2 antisemitism is seen as rather evil, so Jews get this weird exception clause to intolerance. Without the holocaust these same people would be terribly mistrusting of Jews as well. The only reason they stick Judeo in there is so they don't sound antisemitic. Homophobic and anti-Muslim is totally A-OK though.
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On January 06 2012 22:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 22:22 Derez wrote:On January 06 2012 22:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that." - Rick Santorum
Gotta love the GOP commitment to that "small government" thing they keep talking about Just small enough to fit it inside bedrooms everywhere. He's just protecting families. Right on him. I remember when my family was torn apart by sodomy. I'll never forget when my home was broken into in the dead of night. Being dragged out of my room onto the porch and forced to watch a man sodomize his many wives. Our family was never the same.
ahah :-D
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On January 06 2012 22:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 22:22 Derez wrote:On January 06 2012 22:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that." - Rick Santorum
Gotta love the GOP commitment to that "small government" thing they keep talking about Just small enough to fit it inside bedrooms everywhere. He's just protecting families. Right on him. I remember when my family was torn apart by sodomy. I'll never forget when my home was broken into in the dead of night. Being dragged out of my room onto the porch and forced to watch a man sodomize his many wives. Our family was never the same.
Dude, people pay for that kind of stuff and you're complaining you got it for free?
(also LOL)
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On January 06 2012 15:38 EternaLLegacy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 14:47 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 14:38 OsoVega wrote:On January 06 2012 14:27 Haemonculus wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. There were school counties in Georgia and Mississippi holding racially segregated proms as late as 2008. Minority students are prohibited from attending "white prom". These states absolutely might pass some crazy legislation. And people like Ron Paul would do nothing to stop it. Just read his 'We the People Act' which is a clear violation of the First Amendment. Wow that's pretty fucked up. Although it doesn't violate the first amendment because the first amendment only says "Congress shall make no law..." Come to think of it, I never considered that state legislatures could basically do whatever under strict interpretation. That's really scary. Yea, now I sort of understand why Jon Stewart asked him if he would have preferred the Articles of Confederation. It is, but you have to think of states as capitalism in government. 50 states compete with each other, and if states are really going to be that draconian and backwater, they're going to quickly find themselves in bad shape, as everyone but the most ignorant people leave for somewhere better.
This is such a load of horseshit. For lots of people, (especially people in poverty), you can't just "up and leave" and move elsewhere. You'd be leaving behind your job, your home, your family, etc etc. People spout the "if you don't like it, leave!" mentality far too often without ever considering how unpractical it could be for a poor family to just move across the country with no prospects elsewhere in the event of some crazy laws.
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On January 06 2012 23:19 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 22:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On January 06 2012 22:22 Derez wrote:On January 06 2012 22:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that." - Rick Santorum
Gotta love the GOP commitment to that "small government" thing they keep talking about Just small enough to fit it inside bedrooms everywhere. He's just protecting families. Right on him. I remember when my family was torn apart by sodomy. I'll never forget when my home was broken into in the dead of night. Being dragged out of my room onto the porch and forced to watch a man sodomize his many wives. Our family was never the same. Dude, people pay for that kind of stuff and you're complaining you got it for free? (also LOL)
Dude don't worry, he signed a pledge saying he'll ban all forms of pornography too.
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On January 06 2012 23:11 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 20:37 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument.
Just to clarify, conservatism isn't about limited government, but rather a continuation and protection of traditional programs and culture. At this point, conservatism in the U.S. would be more along the lines of prohibiting gay marriage, upholding SS and Medicare, rolling back the healthcare legislation, celebrating judeo-christian values, and keeping a strong military.
May I just say that I'm really sick of this "Judeo-Christian" bullshit. It's like you want to say how Christian America should be but you don't want to sound anti-semetic because Jews get this weird exception clause. Judeo-Christian values is bull. None of the founders were Jewish, nearly all of them were secularists, and many of them were Deists. Where the hell did we get Judeo- from? It's a secular country and always has been. Why not Monotheist values? Oh right, we want to differentiate from those muslims, don't we? Because the Old testament is the Torah. The entire bible is about Jews. Gods chosen people are the Jews. Jesus is the king of the Jews (according to christians). Everywhere you read in the bible it's always about the Jews. The only difference between Jews and Christians is christians say Jesus is the prophesied savor and king of the Jews (and other minor details that have to do with Jesus, like saying you can eat pork because methods of curing the meat had been discovered). That difference is enough to separate the two religions (also the fact that many jews and jewish by decent, while most christians are nonjewish). They created a secular government, for a religious people. Here is a John Steward interview which might interest you. And you can always go to his website where he has his 17000 founding documents. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--1http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--2http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--1http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--2http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--3 No. Sorry, but that is absolutely not what it's about. Having a common heritage would still make calling it Christian values completely accurate. That is not why they put Judeo in there. And there are significant differences between Jews and christians beside kosherness. How about the whole Hell thing? The fact is that this is coming from very intolerant people who are uncomfortable with different people like gays and Muslims. However, ever since ww2 antisemitism is seen as rather evil, so Jews get this weird exception clause to intolerance. Without the holocaust these same people would be terribly mistrusting of Jews as well. The only reason they stick Judeo in there is so they don't sound antisemitic. Homophobic and anti-Muslim is totally A-OK though.
Hell has to do with Jesus (surprise). Every single value that is Jewish is also Christian, except for exact things that have to do with Jesus (Jesus is the one who said you could eat pork, surprise). Also Jews have been prosecuted for much longer than 80 years. You need a history lesson. The jews as a group are still blamed for things today (OWS, Ahmahdenajad).
Jews have certain beliefs, Christians have certain beliefs which completely include the jewish beliefs, but some are not accepted by jews. The two are similar, but different. The difference might be difficult for someone as historically ignorant and possibly antisemitic as yourself, but I guarantee they exist. I'm sure if it bothers you as much as it appears, you can just fucking google it. And if you do, go look up some history while you're at it.
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On January 06 2012 23:37 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 23:11 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 20:37 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument.
Just to clarify, conservatism isn't about limited government, but rather a continuation and protection of traditional programs and culture. At this point, conservatism in the U.S. would be more along the lines of prohibiting gay marriage, upholding SS and Medicare, rolling back the healthcare legislation, celebrating judeo-christian values, and keeping a strong military.
May I just say that I'm really sick of this "Judeo-Christian" bullshit. It's like you want to say how Christian America should be but you don't want to sound anti-semetic because Jews get this weird exception clause. Judeo-Christian values is bull. None of the founders were Jewish, nearly all of them were secularists, and many of them were Deists. Where the hell did we get Judeo- from? It's a secular country and always has been. Why not Monotheist values? Oh right, we want to differentiate from those muslims, don't we? Because the Old testament is the Torah. The entire bible is about Jews. Gods chosen people are the Jews. Jesus is the king of the Jews (according to christians). Everywhere you read in the bible it's always about the Jews. The only difference between Jews and Christians is christians say Jesus is the prophesied savor and king of the Jews (and other minor details that have to do with Jesus, like saying you can eat pork because methods of curing the meat had been discovered). That difference is enough to separate the two religions (also the fact that many jews and jewish by decent, while most christians are nonjewish). They created a secular government, for a religious people. Here is a John Steward interview which might interest you. And you can always go to his website where he has his 17000 founding documents. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--1http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/david-barton-pt--2http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--1http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--2http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-may-4-2011/exclusive---david-barton-extended-interview-pt--3 No. Sorry, but that is absolutely not what it's about. Having a common heritage would still make calling it Christian values completely accurate. That is not why they put Judeo in there. And there are significant differences between Jews and christians beside kosherness. How about the whole Hell thing? The fact is that this is coming from very intolerant people who are uncomfortable with different people like gays and Muslims. However, ever since ww2 antisemitism is seen as rather evil, so Jews get this weird exception clause to intolerance. Without the holocaust these same people would be terribly mistrusting of Jews as well. The only reason they stick Judeo in there is so they don't sound antisemitic. Homophobic and anti-Muslim is totally A-OK though. Hell has to do with Jesus (surprise). Every single value that is Jewish is also Christian, except for exact things that have to do with Jesus (Jesus is the one who said you could eat pork, surprise). Also Jews have been prosecuted for much longer than 80 years. You need a history lesson. The jews as a group are still blamed for things today (OWS, Ahmahdenajad). Jews have certain beliefs, Christians have certain beliefs which completely include the jewish beliefs, but some are not accepted by jews. The two are similar, but different. The difference might be difficult for someone as historically ignorant and possibly antisemitic as yourself, but I guarantee they exist. I'm sure if it bothers you as much as it appears, you can just fucking google it. And if you do, go look up some history while you're at it.
Uhm did you completely misread what I wrote? First of all, I'm Jewish, which is why it pisses me off. It reminds me that these people would probably hate me excepting ww2. It's completely and blatantly disingenuous.
Secondly, Christianity has had a terrible history with including centuries of pogroms. Americans were extremely antisemitic before ww2. Because of the holocaust, it's no longer hip to be antisemitic, so they change Christian to Judeo-Christian. Do you really disagree with that?
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On January 06 2012 23:26 Haemonculus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 15:38 EternaLLegacy wrote:On January 06 2012 14:47 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 14:38 OsoVega wrote:On January 06 2012 14:27 Haemonculus wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. There were school counties in Georgia and Mississippi holding racially segregated proms as late as 2008. Minority students are prohibited from attending "white prom". These states absolutely might pass some crazy legislation. And people like Ron Paul would do nothing to stop it. Just read his 'We the People Act' which is a clear violation of the First Amendment. Wow that's pretty fucked up. Although it doesn't violate the first amendment because the first amendment only says "Congress shall make no law..." Come to think of it, I never considered that state legislatures could basically do whatever under strict interpretation. That's really scary. Yea, now I sort of understand why Jon Stewart asked him if he would have preferred the Articles of Confederation. It is, but you have to think of states as capitalism in government. 50 states compete with each other, and if states are really going to be that draconian and backwater, they're going to quickly find themselves in bad shape, as everyone but the most ignorant people leave for somewhere better. This is such a load of horseshit. For lots of people, (especially people in poverty), you can't just "up and leave" and move elsewhere. You'd be leaving behind your job, your home, your family, etc etc. People spout the "if you don't like it, leave!" mentality far too often without ever considering how unpractical it could be for a poor family to just move across the country with no prospects elsewhere in the event of some crazy laws.
They definitely can, if they'll be moving to a state that has cheaper costs of living, and better education system, and better standard of living, the vast majority of people will be able to leave, and when those people leave the State's economy and community is going to go downhill, so the people who implemented the harsh controls and regulations will get voted out anyways.
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On January 07 2012 00:03 Kiarip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 23:26 Haemonculus wrote:On January 06 2012 15:38 EternaLLegacy wrote:On January 06 2012 14:47 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 14:38 OsoVega wrote:On January 06 2012 14:27 Haemonculus wrote:On January 06 2012 14:02 DoubleReed wrote:On January 06 2012 13:37 Risen wrote:
I'm a little confused by some politicians' views on things. How many states do you really think will actually pass legislation banning things like birth control, pornography, gay marriage, etc. ((All these things increase standards of living in the places they are legal))
If you live in a very conservative state, and these things are banned awesome. That's your right as a state, but have you thought about the economic impact? It wouldn't be a short-term impact, but a long-term impact. People naturally want to live in an area with a higher standard of living, so if you pass legislation barring these things people will move out of your state. Less tax revenue leads to a shitty state. OR what could happen, is the country will become even more polarized.
It's proven in studies that more educated people support these basic SoL increases. What you'll eventually have is an uneducated mass of states and a highly educated mass of states both vying for national power. Bad news imo. None of this stuff will affect me directly, I live in Nevada, I'm not going to have to worry about these things passing, but it still seems pretty shitty when you look at the direction national discourse is taking.
I mean, Santorum as a serious candidate Iowa? Santorum: "They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and regulations low, that we shouldn't get involved in the bedroom or in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world." What the hell? I'm a white male, ergo I'm almost guaranteed to be a conservative, and I can say without a doubt that isn't how traditional conservatives view the world. Traditional Christians? Probably a lot closer to the mark. Traditional conservatives to me means limited government, socially and fiscally.
Anywho, NDAA passing means I won't be voting for the Obama-llama and I can't bring myself to vote for Romney at the moment... so another write-in year, I guess. There are plenty of places with terrible living conditions and terrible education, and those are the same states that will pass such laws. Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc. And no, people tend not to think about economic impact when it comes to social issues, even though they usually have massive economic impact. I mean gay marriage certainly would have positive economic impact, but I rarely hear about people using it as an argument. There were school counties in Georgia and Mississippi holding racially segregated proms as late as 2008. Minority students are prohibited from attending "white prom". These states absolutely might pass some crazy legislation. And people like Ron Paul would do nothing to stop it. Just read his 'We the People Act' which is a clear violation of the First Amendment. Wow that's pretty fucked up. Although it doesn't violate the first amendment because the first amendment only says "Congress shall make no law..." Come to think of it, I never considered that state legislatures could basically do whatever under strict interpretation. That's really scary. Yea, now I sort of understand why Jon Stewart asked him if he would have preferred the Articles of Confederation. It is, but you have to think of states as capitalism in government. 50 states compete with each other, and if states are really going to be that draconian and backwater, they're going to quickly find themselves in bad shape, as everyone but the most ignorant people leave for somewhere better. This is such a load of horseshit. For lots of people, (especially people in poverty), you can't just "up and leave" and move elsewhere. You'd be leaving behind your job, your home, your family, etc etc. People spout the "if you don't like it, leave!" mentality far too often without ever considering how unpractical it could be for a poor family to just move across the country with no prospects elsewhere in the event of some crazy laws. They definitely can, if they'll be moving to a state that has cheaper costs of living, and better education system, and better standard of living, the vast majority of people will be able to leave, and when those people leave the State's economy and community is going to go downhill, so the people who implemented the harsh controls and regulations will get voted out anyways.
Well, no. There are still plenty of black people in those states despite the more racist overtones. Besides what would happen is the moderates would leave, making the state become more extreme, not less.
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EPT
