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On September 14 2011 07:40 MozzarellaL wrote:
I think anyone with a Bachelor's in industrial engineering knows better than the founding 'scientists' of the Technical Alliance
Haha ok do you even know who they are just look at their profiles they are still recognized as being some of the biggest names in science. You obviously haven't seen my earlier post:
The following are short biographies of the sixteen men and one woman whose research led to the concept of Technocracy and the social design of science--the concept of the Technate of North America, which would be the world's first functional society.
The research and study by the Technical Alliance (New York, NY, 1918-21) marked the first time in history anywhere in the world that a country or a Continent was objectively examined and analyzed on a functionally multidisciplinary and interdisciplinary basis, not as nations and their people have always been compared and rated--and still are--on the basis of their political economic/financial ideology, their military forces, and their philosophical premises. Instead, the Technical Alliance measured and assessed the extent of the land's natural resources of soil, metals, fuels, hydrology and its energy resources, its transport and communications and construction capabilities, its industrial and technological productive capacity, its available scientific, engineering, biological trained personnel--all to determine whether this Continental area could provide an equitably individualized high optimum standard of living for its population, and if so, how this could be brought about.
The Technical Alliance Profiles - The Founding Scientists of Technocracy Inc.
Dr. Richard C. Tolman with Albert Einstein.
Technical Alliance Picture Archive
![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XVvHssHIfhk/TffvBvJqoxI/AAAAAAAAALo/AuGDE_L6Du8/s1600/Technocracy+Events+%252812%2529.jpg)
Those who claim they 'can't see' Technocracy are short on either facts or vision, or they are blinded by selfishness. - Technocracy Is For Women Too - Henrietta Phillips
As for Howard Scott, read this article by William Sheridan an admirer of Howard Scott but opponent of Technocracy: Howard Scott - An Authentic American Radical
ENEMY OF THE BOURGEOISIE
(his own preferred epithet)
Howard Scott was born in West Virginia on the 1 st of April, 1890, the only child of a 19 th century
American logging baron. He was a child prodigy who read (and understood) evolutionary biology
by the time he was four years old. As well as a prodigious intellect, he had a marvelous physique,
and by the time he attended the state university in West Virginia, his six foot frame made him as
adept at football as engineering. He kicked the longest punt in the university's history, and to his
chagrin was more hailed for that feat than his academic record. His father's untimely death cut
short his university education, and he became a practicing engineer.
The predominant intellectual influence on Scott was J. Willard Gibbs (1839 - 1903), the Yale
Professor of Mathematical Physics. Although he never had the opportunity to meet Gibbs, he did
get to know most of Gibbs' students. He read all of Gibbs work, and mastered the innovative
mathematical technique that Gibbs pioneered to represent the thermodynamics of phase changes
in physical chemistry, namely linear vector analysis. Scott has the cognitive capacity to mentally
calculate linear vector analysis with six factors, an ability that made him one in a billion.
The life's work that he set for himself was to develop "a science of geomechanics, for the
operation of large areas of the earth's surface both beneath and above". With the use of linear
vector analysis, he developed The Mathematical Theory of Energy Determinants as a tool to
describe the entire industrial ecology of the North American continent. To earn an income he
worked as a consulting engineer on New York State high-voltage transmission research, and as a
construction technologist on the Muscle Shoals Power Plant on the Tennessee River, etc.
An Early Think Tank
Just after the end of World War 1, he formed one of America's first think tanks, The Technical
Alliance, in association with such notable men of science as Charles P. Steinmetz, Richard C.
Tolman, and Bassett Jones. As executive director of the Technical Alliance, Scott defined the
group's mandate as the conduct of "The Energy Survey of North America".
The premise of Scott's thinking was that anything that functions performs as an "energy
consuming device". This definition covered everything from geophysical systems, through
ecological systems, organisms, populations, tools and machines. What needed to be determined in each case, was the device's rate of extraneous energy consumption, and its efficiency of
converting that energy into work. As an engineer, Scott defined waste as any process which sub-
optimized on its efficiency of energy conversion.
He argued that just like a steam engine, a social system's use of energy could be assessed in terms of efficiency. His postulate for this claim was that "the phenomena involved in the functional
operation of a social system are metrical". Applying his Mathematical Theory of Energy
Determinants to the data from the Energy Survey of North America, he could easily demonstrate
that society was squandering resources, wasting energy, and degrading the ecosystem.
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The premise of Scott's thinking was that anything that functions performs as an "energy
consuming device". This definition covered everything from geophysical systems, through
ecological systems, organisms, populations, tools and machines. What needed to be determined in each case, was the device's rate of extraneous energy consumption, and its efficiency of converting that energy into work. As an engineer, Scott defined waste as any process which sub-optimized on its efficiency of energy conversion.
At last I have understood, there is no contradiction between abundance for everyone and consumption because in the Technate the State will determine supply and demand because the Technocrats are superior at determining that than the actors in the market.
In essence how is this different from the Stalinist Bolshevism of ~1925 - 1941?
Which was also a heavily technocratic society. And large elements of its technocratic nature remained in place throughout the duration of the Soviet Union.
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No the Distribution Certificate simply records everything that was consumed so as to determine how much shall be produced in two years time. It's that simple. The reason for two years is because certain tropical fruits take two years to grow. Only the optimum quality goods and services at a minimum cost in energy and resources are produced, not the shoddy goods, programmed obsolescence and conspicuous consumption we see in the Price System. That way a sustainable abundance can be distributed on the North American Continent for thousands of years to come.
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Its not an option. you can have it nice and easy or you can have resource wars and population control. your choice.
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Social change on the North American Continent is not analogous to social change anywhere else.
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What is the fundamental difference between a planned social economy and the system you advocate?
Well we had a "planned social economy" under Roosevelt. Now, of course, we are proceeding from the organized planned economy to designed anarchy, under Truman. What do you mean by planned economy. There never was one in this country. Can't have a blueprint for national housing, you've all got to build your own little rathole. Oh you've all got modern, soundproof, air-conditioned houses? You live in them, do you? You can afford them can you? Ah. Not unless your running a racket ...or own a bank. Theres quite a difference, under Technocracy, for the first time in history, the social history of man, the contract of citizenship in this country would guarantee your economic security. So long as you remained a citizen. You have no guarantee today of your economic security whatsoever. You do have the freedom to work, the freedom to pursue it, but you have no guarantee you're going to get anything. Why you even have to buy an insurance policy ...so you're worth more dead than you are alive! Under a Technate there would be no insurance policy, because every citizen under his contract of citizenship would be guaranteed against disease, accidents, old age, or disability. Without exception! Of race, creed, kind or color. And only citizens could live and work in this country. Understand that, under a Technate. Visitors from foreign countries would be the guests of this Continent, but no one would be permitted to live and work here, except citizens. They must be citizens.
How closely are you connected, or associated, with Communism?
In Russia, the only so-called example of a government supposedly operating under Communist principles, they have state banks, savings accounts, bank deposits, the state corporations have stock, the stock is deposited in the state bank, they have bonds, like you buy here, government bonds, in other words it's a Price System, in Russia, exactly as it is here, with one difference. Here it is privately owned, and there it is state-owned. The Russians have collectif farms, the collective farms average 2500 acres each. And each worker on the collective farm has a little plot of ground, little house, little shed, he also, besides working as an employee of the state collective farms, raises a few pigs and chickens and vegetables, and sells over to the private trader. Either to the collective, or in the outside market. Now 2500 acres, with our technological equipment, that's alright for Communist Russia, but for heaven's sake let's get a technological design. Technocracy's agro-technological units are 25 miles by 25 miles. 400000 acres in a unit. What the hell have we got to immitate Russia for? No we're not deprecating the Russians... Communism is sufficiently radical and revolutionary for the whole world. They still have alternatives in Europe. There is no alternative on this Continent. Either you have a technological organisation and a redesign of all production and distribution of all social functioning on this Continent or you have chaos. We of Technocracy consider Communism so far to the right that it's bourgeois. If you're going to have social change on this Continent, don't imitate anyplace else. Let's develop our own. We don't have to borrow from anyplace else on the globe. We've got the ability here, we've got the technological knownledge, we've got the technological equipment. The only thing we lack, is the will to accomplish it. So let's develop a strategy that is as unidirectional for this country and this Continent, as the Russian strategy is for Russia.
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The movement is lauded in "Vanity Fair" which says, "Whether Technocracy is the final solution remains to be seen, but it is certainly the most vital movement in the direction of economical rationalization which is being contemplated in any country. Compared to Technocracy, Communism is a sentimental deification of the worker and Socialism is a romantic intellectual movement."
The Technocrat's Newsmagazine 1933
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Howard Scott was born in West Virginia on the 1 st of April, 1890, the only child of a 19 th century
American logging baron. He was a child prodigy who read (and understood) evolutionary biology
by the time he was four years old. As well as a prodigious intellect, he had a marvelous physique,
and by the time he attended the state university in West Virginia, his six foot frame made him as
adept at football as engineering. He kicked the longest punt in the university's history, and to his
chagrin was more hailed for that feat than his academic record. His father's untimely death cut
short his university education, and he became a practicing engineer.
The predominant intellectual influence on Scott was J. Willard Gibbs (1839 - 1903), the Yale
Professor of Mathematical Physics. Although he never had the opportunity to meet Gibbs, he did
get to know most of Gibbs' students. He read all of Gibbs work, and mastered the innovative
mathematical technique that Gibbs pioneered to represent the thermodynamics of phase changes
in physical chemistry, namely linear vector analysis. Scott has the cognitive capacity to mentally
calculate linear vector analysis with six factors, an ability that made him one in a billion.
The life's work that he set for himself was to develop "a science of geomechanics, for the
operation of large areas of the earth's surface both beneath and above". With the use of linear
vector analysis, he developed The Mathematical Theory of Energy Determinants as a tool to
describe the entire industrial ecology of the North American continent. To earn an income he
worked as a consulting engineer on New York State high-voltage transmission research, and as a
construction technologist on the Muscle Shoals Power Plant on the Tennessee River, etc.
Oh yeah? Well, Stalin was the smartest, strongest, and most charming man in the world! And gave the best recitation of the Four Seasons ever given in the womb with a violin he fashioned out of flesh. He also could shoot laser beams out of his eyes.
Do you really not see how much of a propaganda piece that is?
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cough hes copypasting cough
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it's not about the individual. your the ones who attacked his caracter
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that was written by an opponent of Technocracy by the way
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bottom line is.. all forms of the Price System are doomed and lead to a regression towards social fascism. Technocracy is the only proposal for operating without a Price System. Even if you disagree it bears intense investigation if we are to survive as a high-energy civilization
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On September 14 2011 07:27 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2011 07:15 lorkac wrote:Step one, assume we care about homeless people. Step two--oh wait, we're still arguing over step one. Before people want to figure out what's best, they need to actually care. How do we know if people care or not? Oh right, argue about it  No, you can measure how much people care about homeless people. Economists do calculations like this all the time. You can either (a) survey people or (b) look at how much of their money/time the average citizen gives to homeless people a year. From here, you can calculate the assigned or implicit value that citizens hold for homeless people (in other words, how much people care). Using this value, you can calculate how much health care for homeless people is worth to the citizens, and therefore whether the cost is worth it.
Suddenly, a problem arises: Monetary gifts isn't a true indicator of how much people care (about anything). It may very well be measureable but that doesn't mean it's useable like you described.
Edit: Survey might work, not what I wanted to address.
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measurement of physical things, matter and energy, population to resources, and the rate of growth of energy consuming devices is all that matters, not opinions or morality stuff or theories of value
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our present growth in population has been made possible only by the increase in energy consumption
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10 calories of extraneous energy per every 1 calorie of food we consume in the industrialised world
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with peak oil that becomes a problem
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no political or economic theory or morality control will be able to stave off disaster
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now stop disparaging Technocracy's good name
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EPT![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x_drugA9rac/Thpzj5WGAxI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/50WGT4AByq4/s1600/Technocracy+Technical+Alliance++-+Richard+C.+Tolman+%2526+Albert+Einstein.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8KPbJ8ce0WM/Tm7fyhPHwoI/AAAAAAAAAZY/ga4NnRA_M40/s1600/einstein+%2526+techs.bmp)
