EPTRossi's energy catalyzer - Page 13
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
| ||
|
Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On October 07 2011 20:58 Plexa wrote: So he still won't reveal whats inside the black box/the reactor core... He only has an Italian patent. Anybody could steal his work if he revealed it. It is not absolutely necessary to know the insides of the reactor core - if the energy produced exceeds anything that one could produce through conventional means within the small reactor core, then the logical conclusion is that he has discovered an unknown energy source. The alternative conclusion is that he has been able to somehow pull off a fraud for all this time, fooling hundreds of observers looking for the possibility of fraud and taking measures with their own tools. Take your pick for what you think is the most likely explanation. | ||
|
OrchidThief
Denmark2298 Posts
I don't get how it's this underplayed if there's truly potential for massive amounts of free energy. I fear infinite energy scams have cried wolf too many times so actual technologies will have too hard a time kicking off. Which also makes me scared that if this is a hoax, it just adds to this "wolfcrying". | ||
|
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:10 Traeon wrote: He only has an Italian patent. Anybody could steal his work if he revealed it. It is not absolutely necessary to know the insides of the reactor core - if the energy produced exceeds anything that one could produce through conventional means within the small reactor core, then the logical conclusion is that he has discovered an unknown energy source. The alternative conclusion is that he has been able to somehow pull off a fraud for all this time, fooling hundreds of observers looking for the possibility of fraud and taking measures with their own tools. Take your pick for what you think is the most likely explanation. Well at the moment the accounts I've read indicate that the rest of the machine is quite unremarkable. Given that this is being so downplayed in the media (I don't buy the argument that they're just suppressing information) and the fact there are still components that are being kept from us I'm sceptical. It would be pretty awesome if this is in fact real, however without seeing the mathematics behind it I don't believe it. | ||
|
OrchidThief
Denmark2298 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:15 Plexa wrote: Well at the moment the accounts I've read indicate that the rest of the machine is quite unremarkable. Given that this is being so downplayed in the media (I don't buy the argument that they're just suppressing information) and the fact there are still components that are being kept from us I'm sceptical. It would be pretty awesome if this is in fact real, however without seeing the mathematics behind it I don't believe it. Supposedly the reason he hasn't been able to get an international patent is because his explanations and model and physics behind is a bit hocus pocus. I'm definitely sceptical and to me it seems like there's definitely something fishy going on. Actually I think I'm more cautiously optimistic than sceptical. | ||
|
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
Don't know how patents work, but it might be kinda hard to secure stuff on an international level for something which works, but no one know s why. I'm not saying that one should not be sceptical, but if this works, u can't see the numbers for it, because the equations simply don't exist yet...so if rossi provides none, this does not at all mean that this is fake, although it still might be. but the conclusion is impossible. | ||
|
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:23 OrchidThief wrote: Supposedly the reason he hasn't been able to get an international patent is because his explanations and model and physics behind is a bit hocus pocus. I'm definitely sceptical and to me it seems like there's definitely something fishy going on. Actually I think I'm more cautiously optimistic than sceptical. Yeah, I think cautiously optimistic is definitely a better description. | ||
|
Traeon
Austria366 Posts
Authorities should help him get a patent so that there's no excuse for holding back with testing. | ||
|
Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
| ||
|
Soleron
United Kingdom1324 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:39 Traeon wrote: I will agree that Rossi's behavior is definitely odd at times. Authorities should help him get a patent so that there's no excuse for holding back with testing. The point of a patent is that you get protection IN EXCHANGE FOR giving a full description of the device so that it's possible to replicate. The patent application is lacking the key details so it should be automatically denied and he should have to resubmit with those to qualify. Patents are not an automatic right. | ||
|
Knalldi
Germany50 Posts
It would be pretty awesome if this is in fact real, however without seeing the mathematics behind it I don't believe it. If you're looking for mathematics of possible explanations look at the paper-section in www.lenr-canr.org . There you'll find enough math on this (broader) topic to keep you busy for some time  . | ||
|
Desti
Germany138 Posts
On October 07 2011 21:42 Soleron wrote: The point of a patent is that you get protection IN EXCHANGE FOR giving a full description of the device so that it's possible to replicate. The patent application is lacking the key details so it should be automatically denied and he should have to resubmit with those to qualify. Patents are not an automatic right. A patent does not require any physical or mathematical explanations how it's working. You can not patent a natural physical effect. In a patent you just describe how the thing is made. All the claims about patent problems are nonsense. | ||
|
TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
| ||
|
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
I personally do not care about any "demonstrations" or whatever other claims. There is no real reason to hold it back if it works. Discovering stuff like this means you have a Nobel prize and a dozen others, tenure at the university of choice... simply a lot of money, without any hassle with patents and whatever you need to get reall money out of it. There only two reason I can imagine they does not want to show it are: 1. they stole it from someone and it can be easily found out 2. it uses brains of small children (the other would be "they are genuinely stupid", but how could they create something like that then?) | ||
|
Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On October 07 2011 22:01 Desti wrote: A patent does not require any physical or mathematical explanations how it's working. You can not patent a natural physical effect. In a patent you just describe how the thing is made. All the claims about patent problems are nonsense. it's not that simple afaik. if you are a big company and you invent something, you lay down dozens of patents ("carpet of patents" I believe), including fake ones, to conceal what you are actually doing to protect from copies, maybe inspirations for others. if you just get one descriptive patent, it's easy to go from there this takes a lot of cash tho, especially since there are mutltiple relevant countries. maybe if he reveals what he does, someone else finds a way to do it better and your patent and thus your invention gets obsolete. I personally could understand why one would hide everything for as long as it is not sold. it still might be fake  but again, no conclusion because of such things is possible imo | ||
|
Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
theres a reason cold fusion patents are automatically declined and yet this guy, who has a history of scamming people, pretty much sells cold fusion as fact in his QA (unless this QA wasnt written by him?) also, he plans to start selling the device by the end of the year at a price of 3,5k and is doing everything he can to get maximum exposure (thus potentially more sales), he doesnt really seem to care about a patent, only that the information spreads as much as it can not to mention that the world is chugging along with apparently no interest in this (wouldnt oil dependent nations, especially china, jump at this? israel and turkey are pretty much screaming at each other at this point because of israel planning to drill for oil with cyprus as a partner, would this be happening if an alternative solution is ready to go to mass production? really?) hopefully im proven wrong, but this is pretty fishy | ||
|
Soleron
United Kingdom1324 Posts
On October 07 2011 22:01 Desti wrote: A patent does not require any physical or mathematical explanations how it's working. You can not patent a natural physical effect. In a patent you just describe how the thing is made. All the claims about patent problems are nonsense. That's right. But in this case there is a catalyst substance he is claiming makes the whole thing work. Researchers have tried to build devices of this kind before, and they haven't got a useful reaction to happen. The uniqueness of this device is whatever he's hiding, not the generic description in the patent which isn't all that original. If you are a big company you can indeed abuse the system by having hundreds of vague patents. I'm saying that the spirit of patent law, if not the reality, is that you give a full description of the construction of the device and arguably he has not. | ||
|
Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
On October 07 2011 22:40 Soleron wrote: That's right. But in this case there is a catalyst substance he is claiming makes the whole thing work. Researchers have tried to build devices of this kind before, and they haven't got a useful reaction to happen. The uniqueness of this device is whatever he's hiding, not the generic description in the patent which isn't all that original. Actually, the uniqueness of this device seems to be in that he's hiding it. Not what's actually in it. | ||
|
Traeon
Austria366 Posts
On October 07 2011 22:40 Soleron wrote:Researchers have tried to build devices of this kind before, and they haven't got a useful reaction to happen. I disagree. Back in 1989 maybe, but nowadays things are different and some progress has been made. Mostly now they are not able to control it, so they were unable to get more than the heat required to warm a cup of tea with it. See http://www.lenr-canr.org/ but as Dennis Bushnell from the NASA is saying, he thinks that we're close to seeing breakthroughs in understanding how these reactions work. That would open the way to control them and then scale them up to get large amounts of heat. | ||
|
decemvre
Romania639 Posts
Bottom line is; if one tiny box produces enough energy so we can rule out any other known sources it must be something new. Moreover, if this thing was my invention or in my possession i would hold on to it exactly the same way. And lets all be honest here; you all would. You can get a Nobel, for 1 million $ but thats about it. Given that he's not a top physicist and that the whole apparatus is rather crude and small its probably not very complicated to replicate once you know what to do. If anyone here has been following the car industry patent war you should understand... Either way, "Shipment of the plant was then blocked; according to Rossi, however, the launch will still take place in October as earlier promised, though he could not yet disclose where this will take place." So everyone will know soon enough whats what. | ||
| ||
