• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:21
CEST 04:21
KST 11:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence9Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence ASL20 General Discussion Diplomacy, Cosmonarchy Edition BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1468 users

The US debt (proper debate) - Page 37

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 59 Next
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 14:37:56
July 28 2011 14:34 GMT
#721
The Economist hits a home run on the debt situation (about time, they've vomited enough mediocre articles about it already):
+ Show Spoiler +
MICHAEL MUNGER, a professor of political science at Duke University, insightfully compares "tax expenditures" to the Catholic church's practice of selling indulgences, which fomented the Reformation by sending Martin Luther into fit of righteous pique. Mr Munger reminds us that

Indulgences were "get out of purgatory free!" cards. Of course, it was the church that had created the idea of purgatory in the first place. Then the church granted itself the power to release souls from purgatory (for a significant fee, of course).

As Luther put it, in his Thesis No. 27, "as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out."
If high tax rates are a sort of purgatory (and who doubts it?), then tax credits are indeed akin to indulgences. Mr Munger writes:

We let people out of tax purgatory if they own large houses, if they receive expensive health insurance from their employer, if they produce sugar or ethanol, or any of thousands of special categories. These categories have nothing to do with need (is there a national defense justification for a protected sugar industry?), but instead depend on how much these sinners are willing to pay to members of Congress.

"As the campaign contributions jingle into the campaign funds, the tax revenues fly out", he adds. As a result, "we have categories within categories within subgroups, all at different prices, deductions or exemptions that release some elites from the published tax rates."

Mr Munger observes that America's blockheaded debt-ceiling debate flows in part from a bipartisan commitment to the medieval theology of our tax code:

The Republicans in Congress are prepared to sacrifice our immortal debt rating to the proposition that not one penny increase is possible, even though almost no one actually pays those rates.
The Democrats in Congress like high rates, so that they can sell indulgences.


Republicans depend on selling indulgences, too, Mr Munger is keen to stress. Bowles-Simpson recommended closing some of the tax code's most egregious loopholes. But the political incentives led President Obama to refuse the chance to go after tax expenditures; he has mostly pushed for higher rates. This is all incredibly depressing. You know we're in trouble when Mr Munger, one of our sharpest scholars of political economy, is unable to offer useful advice beyond calling for a reformation, "a Martin Luther to speak out and tell the truth".

I think many millions of Americans believed that the tea-party movement marked the beginning of a real reformation, yet the tea-party animals in Congress, in the thrall of Grover Norquist's anti-tax fanaticism, have been among those most intransigently opposed to bringing clarity and fairness to our tax code. When Tom Coburn, a staunchly conservative senator from Oklahoma, set forth a "grand bargain" proposal that would cut $9 trillion in spending, including $1 in tax expenditures, Mr Norquist denounced it as a "$1 trillion tax hike plan". But Mr Coburn is right when he argues that

Tax expenditures are not tax cuts. Tax expenditures are socialism and corporate welfare. Tax expenditures are increases on anyone who does not receive the benefit or can’t hire a lobbyist…to manipulate the code to their favor.

Mr Coburn, who is a bit loose with his use of "socialism", may not be the Luther Mr Munger is looking for, but I haven't heard from anyone more Luther-like on this issue. Mr Munger identifies Mr Obama with the Pope, for mostly ignoring Simpson-Bowles, but I nominate Grover Norquist instead for his role as pontiff of the increasingly corrupt supply-side faith.

Which reminds me of a charmingly opinionated philosophy professor from Texas I once met. He told me the story of his conversion in adulthood from Catholicism to the Orthodox church. With each mention of the despised "Pope of Rome", he feigned to spit on the ground. Try it with "Grover Norquist". It's satisfying.

Why raise tax rates when hardly anyone pays these tax rates anyway? It's a good question.
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Kluey
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada1197 Posts
July 28 2011 14:42 GMT
#722
I'm not American but what I think is that USA is just spending money on stupid things. SO much money to war it's not even funny, if you start war you need defense too so it just keeps on getting more expensive.

Only way to fix it in my opinion is to step away from a lot of things that the USA does which aren't needed.
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 15:43:16
July 28 2011 15:38 GMT
#723
On July 28 2011 23:34 bonifaceviii wrote:
Why raise tax rates when hardly anyone pays these tax rates anyway? It's a good question.


That wasn't the point The Economist or even that particular writer is making. It's not about not paying tax, it's that the American tax code is illusory, riddled with holes for people who should pay to sneak through. Obama fucked up by going after higher rates; the GOP are fuckin' up by being so blockheaded about this.

That editorial's not a very well-tempered piece, but The Economist has been about as impartial, even stand-up, as possible considering their obvious favour for business over government: cf. here.

The Boehner budget will likely get voted through today despite its major flaws. Boehner whipped the freshmen into playing realpolitick:

On the Laura Ingraham show yesterday, Boehner said he was telling members that his plan was worth backing because "President Obama hates it." Support it, or you hand Obama a win.

"If we vote it down," said King, "we cripple ourselves for the next year."
Mondays
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 28 2011 16:04 GMT
#724
Sweet, let's enact bad policies as a matter of spite. That's how a country should be run.
ChibiSage
Profile Joined June 2011
36 Posts
July 28 2011 16:08 GMT
#725
For my it's gotten gotten to the point that the entire thing is a crock. Even if the debt problem is paved out for a while theres still the underlying structure that caused it, we've seen how our country reacts to real change. And even if thats done theres still the issues of the incompetent geriatrics in office, most were prolly in there like 40 years.

Dunno if any of this made actual sense ^^*
tdynasty
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada220 Posts
July 28 2011 16:25 GMT
#726
The debt is a result of loop hole manipulation and corporations using the governement as a puppet to drain money and create fake money on the United States Back.

It was a result of a few presidents placing the system known as the federal reserve.

I first learned about this "part" of the government in the movie from micheal moore.

He pointed out all the people who were part of the federal reserve, almost all were Former Bank CEOs and such.

Too me alot of things do not make sense in the USA society format. Soo many industries are monopolized and exploit the average citizen. So many fundamental problems with how business is conducted. So many hypocritism and corruption.

I'm glad I'm canadian, but I can't deny the influence coming from the USA. I have more faith in Canadians as a whole to slowly phase out the aspects of our society that were created in the 19-20th century.

But only the future can deliver us, and most likely a crisis will kick start most of it.
However, there is still hope and progress will come for the USA. Their is alot of pride there.
French Canada
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
July 28 2011 16:36 GMT
#727
On July 29 2011 01:04 Bibdy wrote:
Sweet, let's enact bad policies as a matter of spite. That's how a country should be run.


It will either die or get completely rewritten in the Senate. No way Boehner's plan as it is now is going to get to Obama's desk.

If it even gets that far, as 23 House Repubs have expressed disapproval, and no Dems are on record as even considering taking it out for drinks. Again, Boehner can only really score with his caucus by using the "it hurts the Dems in 2012" line. This is why his plan means the States will do this again in six months and why it'll still lead to a credit downgrade.

On July 29 2011 01:25 tdynasty wrote:
I'm glad I'm canadian, but I can't deny the influence coming from the USA. I have more faith in Canadians as a whole to slowly phase out the aspects of our society that were created in the 19-20th century.


Watching American politics has stopped being funny. We gave Harper a majority - we gave a Prime Minister favouring close economic ties with the US and who is ideologically aligned with the GOP in social, religious, economic, environmental, scientific, etc. issues free reign over the country for the next four years - and Toronto elected the Brothers Ford, who among other things want to privatize the TTC and the library system. Our political discourse is starting to get worse, more divisive and dumber and less inclined towards compromise. Hell, people are starting to misuse "communist" and "socialist," more and more and more.

Harper is nowhere near as bad as the GOP is right now, but this happiness of distance is an illusion.
Mondays
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
July 28 2011 16:40 GMT
#728
You know what's funny reading this thread?
I bet Congress and the President are having the same kinds of discussions: pointless debate that will never deliver a clear victor on the issue; what one side says only enrages the other and furthers their belief that they're more "right" and vice versa.

And unfortunately unlike this thread, it's going to have a lot of consequences for the United States... and maybe even the world as well.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
BlackFlag
Profile Joined September 2010
499 Posts
July 28 2011 16:42 GMT
#729
On July 29 2011 01:36 jon arbuckle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 01:04 Bibdy wrote:
Sweet, let's enact bad policies as a matter of spite. That's how a country should be run.


It will either die or get completely rewritten in the Senate. No way Boehner's plan as it is now is going to get to Obama's desk.

If it even gets that far, as 23 House Repubs have expressed disapproval, and no Dems are on record as even considering taking it out for drinks. Again, Boehner can only really score with his caucus by using the "it hurts the Dems in 2012" line. This is why his plan means the States will do this again in six months and why it'll still lead to a credit downgrade.

Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 01:25 tdynasty wrote:
I'm glad I'm canadian, but I can't deny the influence coming from the USA. I have more faith in Canadians as a whole to slowly phase out the aspects of our society that were created in the 19-20th century.


Watching American politics has stopped being funny. We gave Harper a majority - we gave a Prime Minister favouring close economic ties with the US and who is ideologically aligned with the GOP in social, religious, economic, environmental, scientific, etc. issues free reign over the country for the next four years - and Toronto elected the Brothers Ford, who among other things want to privatize the TTC and the library system. Our political discourse is starting to get worse, more divisive and dumber and less inclined towards compromise. Hell, people are starting to misuse "communist" and "socialist," more and more and more.

Harper is nowhere near as bad as the GOP is right now, but this happiness of distance is an illusion.


Has Canada also media outfits like fox news? I don't mean just right-wing and manipulative but also from size and the mass of people it reaches?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 28 2011 16:44 GMT
#730
The most painful aspect about this "debate" is that basically no one is serious about cutting spending. Neither the Boehner bill nor whatever smoke and mirrors Reid has in mind has anything that even looks like a signficant cut. Most of our politicians are simply too inept and corrupt.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
July 28 2011 16:58 GMT
#731
It's a good thing the OP and the average poster offers no facts or data of any kind, giving us free reign to have a "proper debate" where we talk about how corporations are bad, and the military costs too much money. Now and then we can post a link to a site which espouses an attitude which reaffirms our preexisting convictions, and freely post economically illiterate ideas that would make the average economist cringe or face palm, like suggestions to "keep the money in the country."

Such threads are more conducive to endless bumping and arguments that splinter into a thousand directions at once. I'm guessing the most popular thread possible would be one with the thread title "post how you think the world should be run and why everyone else is wrong (proper debate)" and an empty OP.

No, trillions of dollars of debt isn't bad at all. It's just a scam being manufactured by the republicans! It's well known in more educated circles that you can increase debt indefinitely and never have to worry about actually paying it off. There really is such a thing as a free lunch. Unfortunately, Fox News and talk radio keep propagandizing the American people into mind control, causing them to espouse ideas which are contrary to their obvious self interest. If the evil banks who are sucking the money out of poor old widows grew a conscience or were whipped into shape by the state, things would be so much better. Fixing our tax loopholes would eliminate all debt. Oh, and Cheney and Halliburton have to go too, because they send us to wars we don't want to be in. If you guys don't believe me, there's this really cool show called the Daily Show where they teach you this kind of stuff, you should check it out.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
dudeman001
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2412 Posts
July 28 2011 17:01 GMT
#732
On July 29 2011 01:44 xDaunt wrote:
The most painful aspect about this "debate" is that basically no one is serious about cutting spending. Neither the Boehner bill nor whatever smoke and mirrors Reid has in mind has anything that even looks like a signficant cut. Most of our politicians are simply too inept and corrupt.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they're corrupt, but they're so incompetent and closed-minded that the entire idea of compromise ridiculed. I'd call myself more Republican than Democrat, but I can still truly respect Obama from trying to get a compromise through, while the far left is criticizing him for backing off on issues. His own party is attacking him for compromise, ffs. If the debt deal was a simple issue it wouldn't be this big of a problem, but it is a big deal and so compromise HAS to be made. Unfortunately the people elected aren't the same people that are willing to go down that road.
Sup.
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 17:06:05
July 28 2011 17:05 GMT
#733
On July 29 2011 01:58 jdseemoreglass wrote:
It's a good thing the OP and the average poster offers no facts or data of any kind, giving us free reign to have a "proper debate" where we talk about how corporations are bad, and the military costs too much money. Now and then we can post a link to a site which espouses an attitude which reaffirms our preexisting convictions, and freely post economically illiterate ideas that would make the average economist cringe or face palm, like suggestions to "keep the money in the country."

Such threads are more conducive to endless bumping and arguments that splinter into a thousand directions at once. I'm guessing the most popular thread possible would be one with the thread title "post how you think the world should be run and why everyone else is wrong (proper debate)" and an empty OP.
I appreciated the above...

No, trillions of dollars of debt isn't bad at all. It's just a scam being manufactured by the republicans! It's well known in more educated circles that you can increase debt indefinitely and never have to worry about actually paying it off. There really is such a thing as a free lunch. Unfortunately, Fox News and talk radio keep propagandizing the American people into mind control, causing them to espouse ideas which are contrary to their obvious self interest. If the evil banks who are sucking the money out of poor old widows grew a conscience or were whipped into shape by the state, things would be so much better. Fixing our tax loopholes would eliminate all debt. Oh, and Cheney and Halliburton have to go too, because they send us to wars we don't want to be in. If you guys don't believe me, there's this really cool show called the Daily Show where they teach you this kind of stuff, you should check it out.
But I would've thought the right response to your complaint would've been to provide the facts and data in an impartial manner, and then draw reasonable conclusions from it, which you would acknowledge as your own.

If you, like me, don't have the time or interest in debating US economic policy in this thread, it would've been more polite to simply take a pass than to tar all opinions with the same silly brush.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 17:11:02
July 28 2011 17:10 GMT
#734
On July 29 2011 02:05 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 01:58 jdseemoreglass wrote:
It's a good thing the OP and the average poster offers no facts or data of any kind, giving us free reign to have a "proper debate" where we talk about how corporations are bad, and the military costs too much money. Now and then we can post a link to a site which espouses an attitude which reaffirms our preexisting convictions, and freely post economically illiterate ideas that would make the average economist cringe or face palm, like suggestions to "keep the money in the country."

Such threads are more conducive to endless bumping and arguments that splinter into a thousand directions at once. I'm guessing the most popular thread possible would be one with the thread title "post how you think the world should be run and why everyone else is wrong (proper debate)" and an empty OP.
I appreciated the above...

Show nested quote +
No, trillions of dollars of debt isn't bad at all. It's just a scam being manufactured by the republicans! It's well known in more educated circles that you can increase debt indefinitely and never have to worry about actually paying it off. There really is such a thing as a free lunch. Unfortunately, Fox News and talk radio keep propagandizing the American people into mind control, causing them to espouse ideas which are contrary to their obvious self interest. If the evil banks who are sucking the money out of poor old widows grew a conscience or were whipped into shape by the state, things would be so much better. Fixing our tax loopholes would eliminate all debt. Oh, and Cheney and Halliburton have to go too, because they send us to wars we don't want to be in. If you guys don't believe me, there's this really cool show called the Daily Show where they teach you this kind of stuff, you should check it out.
But I would've thought the right response to your complaint would've been to provide the facts and data in an impartial manner, and then draw reasonable conclusions from it, which you would acknowledge as your own.

If you, like me, don't have the time or interest in debating US economic policy in this thread, it would've been more polite to simply take a pass than to tar all opinions with the same silly brush.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210665

My thread is the one the OP labels "troll bait" that's filled with sources and actual data. There's the facts I can offer you. Unfortunately, I can't say I offered them in an impartial manner. I have a very clear opinion on the matter, which is essentially a prerequisite for "debates."
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
July 28 2011 17:19 GMT
#735
On July 29 2011 02:10 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 02:05 tree.hugger wrote:
On July 29 2011 01:58 jdseemoreglass wrote:
It's a good thing the OP and the average poster offers no facts or data of any kind, giving us free reign to have a "proper debate" where we talk about how corporations are bad, and the military costs too much money. Now and then we can post a link to a site which espouses an attitude which reaffirms our preexisting convictions, and freely post economically illiterate ideas that would make the average economist cringe or face palm, like suggestions to "keep the money in the country."

Such threads are more conducive to endless bumping and arguments that splinter into a thousand directions at once. I'm guessing the most popular thread possible would be one with the thread title "post how you think the world should be run and why everyone else is wrong (proper debate)" and an empty OP.
I appreciated the above...

No, trillions of dollars of debt isn't bad at all. It's just a scam being manufactured by the republicans! It's well known in more educated circles that you can increase debt indefinitely and never have to worry about actually paying it off. There really is such a thing as a free lunch. Unfortunately, Fox News and talk radio keep propagandizing the American people into mind control, causing them to espouse ideas which are contrary to their obvious self interest. If the evil banks who are sucking the money out of poor old widows grew a conscience or were whipped into shape by the state, things would be so much better. Fixing our tax loopholes would eliminate all debt. Oh, and Cheney and Halliburton have to go too, because they send us to wars we don't want to be in. If you guys don't believe me, there's this really cool show called the Daily Show where they teach you this kind of stuff, you should check it out.
But I would've thought the right response to your complaint would've been to provide the facts and data in an impartial manner, and then draw reasonable conclusions from it, which you would acknowledge as your own.

If you, like me, don't have the time or interest in debating US economic policy in this thread, it would've been more polite to simply take a pass than to tar all opinions with the same silly brush.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210665

My thread is the one the OP labels "troll bait" that's filled with sources and actual data. There's the facts I can offer you. Unfortunately, I can't say I offered them in an impartial manner. I have a very clear opinion on the matter, which is essentially a prerequisite for "debates."
Fair enough. I responded to your post in this thread without knowing your full posting history, and I agree that your previous OP is well done, though, as you concede, perhaps a little leaning.

But I think this thread does cover a different topic, even if the title doesn't directly. Obviously the big issue right now is the debt ceiling debate, which wasn't being debated when you made your initial OP. So it's a different discussion, even if the underlying theme is the same.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
stk01001
Profile Joined September 2007
United States786 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 17:44:53
July 28 2011 17:33 GMT
#736
there is no "proper debate" the issue is so outrageous. Basically anyone who thinks the debt ceiling shouldn't be raised is a complete lunatic who is so far out of touch with reality it's not even funny..

end of story.

The whole "debate"... it's all politically motivated... and the only reason it's an issue is because republicans are so scared of pissing off that group of fringe lunatics that call themselves the tea party. A group of people who are completely fixated on not raising ANY taxes whatsoever and putting spending levels back to what they were in 1965 no matter what the cost.. it's like dealing with a bunch of two year olds who have no idea what's really going on..

the whole crop of "freshmen republican" tea party backed representatives are really screwing up Washington. Even John Boehner is getting fed up with them, he told them they all need to "get their asses in line" today. Pretty much every sane republican who wasn't voted in by the tea party has come out and said how critical it is to raise the debt ceiling.. yet this group of tea party babies continue to throw their little temper tantrum till they get their way.. it's hilarious, pathetic and extremely frustrating all at the same time..
a.k.a reLapSe ---
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
July 28 2011 17:36 GMT
#737
On July 29 2011 02:01 dudeman001 wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to say they're corrupt, but they're so incompetent and closed-minded that the entire idea of compromise ridiculed. I'd call myself more Republican than Democrat, but I can still truly respect Obama from trying to get a compromise through, while the far left is criticizing him for backing off on issues. His own party is attacking him for compromise, ffs. If the debt deal was a simple issue it wouldn't be this big of a problem, but it is a big deal and so compromise HAS to be made. Unfortunately the people elected aren't the same people that are willing to go down that road.


It has less to do with "incompetence" and more to do with the fact that it will not be popular with voters.

Voters tend to love political rhetoric up until the point where it affects them.
I seriously doubt they'll enjoy the spending cuts. Unfortunately the American public have a tendency on focusing on the short term "waaa this is hurting me this sucks" negative consequences and forgetting completely/ignoring what happened beforehand (look no further than 9/11 and the TSA).
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 28 2011 17:49 GMT
#738
On July 29 2011 02:33 stk01001 wrote:
there is no "proper debate" the issue is so outrageous. Basically anyone who thinks the debt ceiling shouldn't be raised is a complete lunatic who is so far out of touch with reality it's not even funny..

end of story.

The whole debate"... it's all politically motivated... and the only reason it's an issue is because republicans are so scared of pissing off that group of fringe lunatics that call themselves the tea party. A group of people who are completely fixated on not raising ANY taxes whatsoever and putting spending levels back to what they were in 1965 no matter what the cost.. it's like dealing with a bunch of two year olds who have no idea what's really going on..


Ah, political hackery at its finest. Blame it all on the republicans/tea party!

Yes, let's spend ourselves into oblivion and have even larger problems down the road. Brillian plan. Taxes do need to be adjusted, but whatever is done in that arena will necessary pale in comparison to the spending cuts that have to be made. Again: We're running $1.4 trillion annual deficits. The only way to fix that is to significantly cut spending.

I also disagree that it's undebatable as to whether the debt ceiling should even be raised. Given the refusal of our politicians to make any meaningful effort to getting our fiscal house in order, I'm starting to like the idea of letting the markets and legal limits force them to do it now. The alternative is to kick the can down the road a little bit farther, when instead of being confronted with a $15 trillion problem, we'll be facing a $17 or even $20 trillion problem. Let's just get it over with. S&P has already made it clear that we're going to eat a bond ratings downgrade, regardless of whether we raise the debt ceiling, unless significant progress is made towards reducing the budget deficit. Boehner's plan doesn't do it, and the democrats have demonstrated zero inclination to doing it themselves.
stk01001
Profile Joined September 2007
United States786 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-28 18:05:47
July 28 2011 17:57 GMT
#739
On July 29 2011 02:49 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 02:33 stk01001 wrote:
there is no "proper debate" the issue is so outrageous. Basically anyone who thinks the debt ceiling shouldn't be raised is a complete lunatic who is so far out of touch with reality it's not even funny..

end of story.

The whole debate"... it's all politically motivated... and the only reason it's an issue is because republicans are so scared of pissing off that group of fringe lunatics that call themselves the tea party. A group of people who are completely fixated on not raising ANY taxes whatsoever and putting spending levels back to what they were in 1965 no matter what the cost.. it's like dealing with a bunch of two year olds who have no idea what's really going on..


Ah, political hackery at its finest. Blame it all on the republicans/tea party!

Yes, let's spend ourselves into oblivion and have even larger problems down the road. Brillian plan. Taxes do need to be adjusted, but whatever is done in that arena will necessary pale in comparison to the spending cuts that have to be made. Again: We're running $1.4 trillion annual deficits. The only way to fix that is to significantly cut spending.

I also disagree that it's undebatable as to whether the debt ceiling should even be raised. Given the refusal of our politicians to make any meaningful effort to getting our fiscal house in order, I'm starting to like the idea of letting the markets and legal limits force them to do it now. The alternative is to kick the can down the road a little bit farther, when instead of being confronted with a $15 trillion problem, we'll be facing a $17 or even $20 trillion problem. Let's just get it over with. S&P has already made it clear that we're going to eat a bond ratings downgrade, regardless of whether we raise the debt ceiling, unless significant progress is made towards reducing the budget deficit. Boehner's plan doesn't do it, and the democrats have demonstrated zero inclination to doing it themselves.



here's a great quote from the Wall Street Journal.. which is considered a "conservative" leaning publication. So this is from a perspective on the right:

"...The idea seems to be that if the House GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, a default crisis or gradual government shutdown will ensue, and the public will turn en masse against . . . Barack Obama. The Republican House that failed to raise the debt ceiling would somehow escape all blame. Then Democrats would have no choice but to pass a balanced-budget amendment and reform entitlements, and the tea-party Hobbits could return to Middle Earth having defeated Mordor.
This is the kind of crack political thinking that turned Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell into GOP Senate nominees. The reality is that the debt limit will be raised one way or another, and the only issue now is with how much fiscal reform and what political fallout."

and don't say the democrats haven't offered their own plans. Harry Reid has put forth multiple plans (Reid's plan actually saves more than Boehner's in the long run lol), it's just impossible to get them passed through the house because of the said lunatics in above editorial..

don't see how you can say this debacle isn't the tea party's fault with a straight face.. lol..

if the tea party didn't exist this wouldn't be an issue, and the celing would get raised without incident, just like it has been done in.. you know... EVERY SINGLE OTHER PRESIDENCY IN HISTORY.. without issue.. but you know since it's Obama... of course they can't let him do it.. yea..

but they didn't have a problem when the Bush administration was overseeing the largest increase of the deficit in US history.. no that wasn't a big deal..
a.k.a reLapSe ---
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
July 28 2011 17:58 GMT
#740
So a group doesn't want to raise taxes
Another group doesn't want to cut expending
Both are needed
non gets done? Is that right?
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 59 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#49
SteadfastSC244
EnkiAlexander 83
davetesta44
Liquipedia
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 244
WinterStarcraft197
Nina 190
RuFF_SC2 137
ROOTCatZ 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 746
NaDa 32
Icarus 3
Dota 2
monkeys_forever778
LuMiX2
Counter-Strike
semphis_26
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King18
Other Games
summit1g9837
shahzam1041
C9.Mang0312
Maynarde143
ViBE143
NeuroSwarm109
XaKoH 76
Trikslyr57
kaitlyn0
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick855
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt122
Other Games
• Scarra1159
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
8h 39m
OSC
16h 39m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
1d 10h
RSL Revival
2 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.