On July 16 2011 02:29 Jibba wrote: It is a form of feminism, actually. Most of you just don't know what feminism is. :/
Feminism is about their social, economic and political rights. Not exactly the same thing as independence (although it is kind of a biproduct) and realizing their bodies are a male-cash gold mine.
No, it's not. First wave feminism was about political rights, second wave feminism was about social/economic understanding and third is post-constructionist.
If you believe feminism is only about women, then you don't actually understand much about it. At this point it's more of a philosophy than anything else.
Is this the part where you try to argue what modern feminism SHOULD be about vs what the vast majority of so-called feminists believe, which goes in a complete tangent to the point I was making in the first place?
I'm not going to sit here and argue pointlessly over what feminism SHOULD be. A feminist culture that doesn't take into consideration men's issues is nothing but warped, but that's still the direction the movement is heading.
Completely agree. That's the exact problem i have with the whole thing, the apparent disregarding of male issues in their venture for gains
Again @jibba completely agree with that too, there's really nothing wrong with it at all, in fact id go as to as to say "its the most normal thing in the world"
On July 16 2011 02:29 Jibba wrote: It is a form of feminism, actually. Most of you just don't know what feminism is. :/
Feminism is about their social, economic and political rights. Not exactly the same thing as independence (although it is kind of a biproduct) and realizing their bodies are a male-cash gold mine.
No, it's not. First wave feminism was about political rights, second wave feminism was about social/economic understanding and third is post-constructionist.
If you believe feminism is only about women, then you don't actually understand much about it. At this point it's more of a philosophy than anything else.
Is this the part where you try to argue what modern feminism SHOULD be about vs what the vast majority of so-called feminists believe, which goes in a complete tangent to the point I was making in the first place?
I'm not going to sit here and argue pointlessly over what feminism SHOULD be. A feminist culture that doesn't take into consideration men's issues is nothing but warped, but that's still the direction the movement is heading.
What movement? How many feminists do you know and what do they actually do in their movement? It's not like a lot of it is some crazy new idea, lots of people have read Foucault, feminists and non-feminists alike.
On July 16 2011 02:29 Jibba wrote: It is a form of feminism, actually. Most of you just don't know what feminism is. :/
Feminism is about their social, economic and political rights. Not exactly the same thing as independence (although it is kind of a biproduct) and realizing their bodies are a male-cash gold mine.
No, it's not. First wave feminism was about political rights, second wave feminism was about social/economic understanding and third is post-constructionist.
If you believe feminism is only about women, then you don't actually understand much about it. At this point it's more of a philosophy than anything else.
Is this the part where you try to argue what modern feminism SHOULD be about vs what the vast majority of so-called feminists believe, which goes in a complete tangent to the point I was making in the first place?
I'm not going to sit here and argue pointlessly over what feminism SHOULD be. A feminist culture that doesn't take into consideration men's issues is nothing but warped, but that's still the direction the movement is heading.
Completely agree. That's the exact problem i have with the whole thing, the apparent disregarding of male issues in their venture for gains
Both sexes do it, women are just playing catch up at this point.
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters.
Tell me women don't have the dexterity for Starcraft after seeing that...
Anyone can have the dexterity for 300+ apm, question is, why aren't there more girls interested in joining the pro scene?
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: Do you think things like the relatively quick fan clubs are hurting or helping the problem?
What problem are you talking about exactly ?
Does anyone really care about the percentage of women playing games ? If more women enjoyed gaming in general, then we would have more female gamers. If they don't, so be it and I don't see any reason why anyone should ecourage more chicks to compete in "e-sports" or try to promote them in any special way. They have the same possibilities like any other male out there, so I just fail to see the point of this topic.
e-staring ? Srsly ? Geezus, if a person - whatever the gender - can't get over the fact that the internet is full of idiots and feels offended by something along the lines of "lol, ur a gurl - tits or gtfo" then he/she really has some issues.
On July 16 2011 02:29 Jibba wrote: It is a form of feminism, actually. Most of you just don't know what feminism is. :/
Feminism is about their social, economic and political rights. Not exactly the same thing as independence (although it is kind of a biproduct) and realizing their bodies are a male-cash gold mine.
No, it's not. First wave feminism was about political rights, second wave feminism was about social/economic understanding and third is post-constructionist.
If you believe feminism is only about women, then you don't actually understand much about it. At this point it's more of a philosophy than anything else.
Is this the part where you try to argue what modern feminism SHOULD be about vs what the vast majority of so-called feminists believe, which goes in a complete tangent to the point I was making in the first place?
I'm not going to sit here and argue pointlessly over what feminism SHOULD be. A feminist culture that doesn't take into consideration men's issues is nothing but warped, but that's still the direction the movement is heading.
Completely agree. That's the exact problem i have with the whole thing, the apparent disregarding of male issues in their venture for gains
Both sexes do it, women are just playing catch up at this point.
You believe they are still only catching up? I guess that's where we differ. Being a young (under 30) male, feels like some form of negative state as if you're of less value, especially when compared to the treatment of under 30 females. From education to employment prospects, regardless of academic merit females seem to get a lot of preferential treatment behind the guise of equality.
Perhaps i just had an isolated experience with a sexist head of education in the area i grew up, but it was blatantly apparent that the success of the girls was of more importance than the boys.
On July 16 2011 02:04 slappy wrote: its a common known fact that a good looking girl automatically has some things made easier (not saying life is easy for them, ofc). Things like going to Las Vegas... I HATE going there, shit is too expensive, but girls love going there... WHY!? Because they get in everywhere for free, and are handed bottle service and a VIP table by many clubs because they want to flash around hot girls. Then on top of that, guys are fighting over who gets to buy them more drinks even they get them all for free anyways. That's just one example, but it applies everywhere. If you see a hot girl carrying something, don't you offer your help?
I don't offer people help just because they are hot. I offer them help if I think they need it. I fucking hate the idea of giving good looking women special treatment.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
From living in the Toronto city and this is this from the Toronto/Canadian society perspective alone (not sure about any other countries) but there are 4 reasons why women are participate in video gaming related things: 1. They seek attentions from men (dysphemism term: attention whores): the majority of the male population are video gaming so by playing video games, men would most likely to find them..."hot". For example, I've seen guys drooling over this one girl since she chose to play CoD just because she knows a lot of male gender varieties plays it. Verdict: Fakers 2. They are ambitious and have an aggressive nature (dysphemism term: bitches): yes those people are the ones that plays Facebook games such as Who has the Biggest Brain, Farmville and IPod games like Angry Birds. It is their way of showing off "Look how much I am better than you to the rest of the world" and became very obsessive. Verdict: Mostly competitive nerds (not nerds like us but school nerds) that can only show off their "status" in a different way than simply having high grades but can't perform any othey physical activities (sports) 3. Its their job (for reporting, school research): they are only interested in E-Sport if they get money or received topic of Cybergaming in their subject research project. Verdict: Fakers but CAN show real interest if they: a) purposely asked to report on E-Sport news or they themselves chose the topic. 4. They REALLY do enjoy gaming (RARE species, treasure them!): I remembered going into the computer lab at my school, there was this one girl who always sit at the back (she was Korean) while playing Brood War and she was relatively GOOD at it. When I say GOOD, I mean that she is able to defeat 3 AIs on Fighting Spirit in 1 vs 3. I've asked her if she knows Bisu or Jaedong but she responded with a no. I was REALLY surprised since I really thought that she plays because that handsome men plays this. Instead she told me that her big brother introduced to her the game and she found it really challenging and fun! Those people do NOT seek attentions. They are not playing to show others that they are better. They simply enjoy playing. Another good example is the famous progamer Tossgirl, she don't attract attentions to herself. She don't play to get the "image" and on recent interview she says that she is STILL trying to get a spot to play on team! Verdict: dedicated progamer materials.
That being said, those few type 4s are really less than 1% of the whole female population and 1% of the population isn't going to go anywhere to form an "industry".
On July 16 2011 02:29 Jibba wrote: It is a form of feminism, actually. Most of you just don't know what feminism is. :/
Feminism is about their social, economic and political rights. Not exactly the same thing as independence (although it is kind of a biproduct) and realizing their bodies are a male-cash gold mine.
No, it's not. First wave feminism was about political rights, second wave feminism was about social/economic understanding and third is post-constructionist.
If you believe feminism is only about women, then you don't actually understand much about it. At this point it's more of a philosophy than anything else.
Is this the part where you try to argue what modern feminism SHOULD be about vs what the vast majority of so-called feminists believe, which goes in a complete tangent to the point I was making in the first place?
I'm not going to sit here and argue pointlessly over what feminism SHOULD be. A feminist culture that doesn't take into consideration men's issues is nothing but warped, but that's still the direction the movement is heading.
Completely agree. That's the exact problem i have with the whole thing, the apparent disregarding of male issues in their venture for gains
Both sexes do it, women are just playing catch up at this point.
You believe they are still only catching up? I guess that's where we differ. Being a young (under 30) male, feels like some form of negative state as if you're of less value, especially when compared to the treatment of under 30 females. From education to employment prospects, regardless of academic merit females seem to get a lot of preferential treatment behind the guise of equality.
Perhaps i just had an isolated experience with a sexist head of education in the area i grew up, but it was blatantly apparent that the success of the girls was of more importance than the boys.
The issues are certainly different than they were 20 years ago and the field you're in changes a lot. I will say the 79% salary number some people bring up is a bunch of bullshit, but what is relevant is that women are still steered into education and men are steered into engineering.
Being a white male has still seemed like a pretty advantageous position to me. Being from Michigan, I've seen a lot of cases where there's still a disparity. Is a flirty girl going to be a better waiter/bartender than you are? Probably. But she probably doesn't get to establish a rapport with her professors (even women)or bosses like I do/have.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
Too true. If you suddenly decided to combine men's and women's football (soccer), what would be the result? You're damned right that all of the teams would still be composed of men. Claims of sexism would then crop up and then you'd have a quota system put in place, which is just as ridiculous in the employment world. Nevermind finding the most qualified people for the job. Some people get the job based entirely on their gender/skin colour, which is no better than when they didn't get the job based on their gender/skin colour.
You don't solve discrimination with forced discrimination in the opposite direction.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
Too true. If you suddenly decided to combine men's and women's football (soccer), what would be the result? You're damned right that all of the teams would still be composed of men. Claims of sexism would then crop up and then you'd have a quota system put in place, which is just as ridiculous in the employment world. Nevermind finding the most qualified people for the job. Some people get the job based entirely on their gender/skin colour, which is no better than when they didn't get the job based on their gender/skin colour.
You don't solve discrimination with forced discrimination in the opposite direction.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
Too true. If you suddenly decided to combine men's and women's football (soccer), what would be the result? You're damned right that all of the teams would still be composed of men. Claims of sexism would then crop up and then you'd have a quota system put in place, which is just as ridiculous in the employment world. Nevermind finding the most qualified people for the job. Some people get the job based entirely on their gender/skin colour, which is no better than when they didn't get the job based on their gender/skin colour.
You don't solve discrimination with forced discrimination in the opposite direction.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
Too true. If you suddenly decided to combine men's and women's football (soccer), what would be the result? You're damned right that all of the teams would still be composed of men. Claims of sexism would then crop up and then you'd have a quota system put in place, which is just as ridiculous in the employment world. Nevermind finding the most qualified people for the job. Some people get the job based entirely on their gender/skin colour, which is no better than when they didn't get the job based on their gender/skin colour.
You don't solve discrimination with forced discrimination in the opposite direction.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
Too true. If you suddenly decided to combine men's and women's football (soccer), what would be the result? You're damned right that all of the teams would still be composed of men. Claims of sexism would then crop up and then you'd have a quota system put in place, which is just as ridiculous in the employment world. Nevermind finding the most qualified people for the job. Some people get the job based entirely on their gender/skin colour, which is no better than when they didn't get the job based on their gender/skin colour.
You don't solve discrimination with forced discrimination in the opposite direction.
On July 16 2011 02:34 Eleaven wrote: @Fenrax The type of argument you're posing would be answered with "Those sports are gender segregated" which absolutely plays into the hands of the people your trying to persuade. You can't say "i wont be a bin man, but i will be a professional athlete" and claim you just want to be equal (as a gender, not an individual)
The people I try to persuade? Idiots? Because clearly only idiots think that sports like female tennis or female figure skating are unprofessional, unlike their male counterparts (which was the original claim). The gender segregation in these professional sports is exclusively based on the physical differences between men and women.
Too true. If you suddenly decided to combine men's and women's football (soccer), what would be the result? You're damned right that all of the teams would still be composed of men. Claims of sexism would then crop up and then you'd have a quota system put in place, which is just as ridiculous in the employment world. Nevermind finding the most qualified people for the job. Some people get the job based entirely on their gender/skin colour, which is no better than when they didn't get the job based on their gender/skin colour.
You don't solve discrimination with forced discrimination in the opposite direction.
the thing that hit me with the lindsey sporrer thing was that Puma had a fan club before he won NASL (i think?) and he had like 15 pages. Lindseys had just been created due to her appearance in NASL and was on 34 pages after the first day.
Puma played amazing and everyone was shocked, and yet he got less then half the pages that she got? Dont get me wrong i like her enthusiasm, but i think shes not genuine enough. She was going on about what race she wanted to play and she was gonna stream her first game and stuff. Id be surprised if she ever played at all, and i think she was just doing it to leapfrog into some other industry or something.
Have a Women's only tournment at major gaming events. See the kind of crowd it attracts over say 2 or 3 MLGs. Offer a persuading prize pool and see who shows up.
Girls go to MLGs, see if this sparks interest from guys gf's, friends of friends, etc. If it doesn't, at least someone tried to double the market for a specific eSport game.
Men are seriously interested in seeing how women perform competitvely at Starcraft. Men will watch, so there is a market ready to participate in spectating the sport. Something most professional women's sports lack.
Where's my paycheck 2 years down the road MLG staff?
EPT
