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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
Yeah, people are morons. Or this post won't get so much nodding. How about boxing and wresling (not the WWE stuff)? Are different weight categories also discrimination? Was Sugar Ray Robinson just an uncompetive fluke without any skill who was priviledged because of his weight? Were those ~10.000 medicocre heavyweights who would easily knock him out heads-up just discriminated because of their weight? | ||
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters. Not true. That is pseudo science that people use to make excuses for being sexist. Girls have the same mental abilities and reflexes as we do. The only difference is the amounts of testosterone in males is higher and the amount of estrogen in females is higher, generally speaking. The Lindsey Sporrer fan club isn't about the fact she's a girl; It's the fact she is a model who for some reason was intervewing nerds at an event she knew nothing about. People aren't fans of her because she is a girl (although she is pretty, but that doesn't matter) but because she was a horrible interviewer and didn't belong there, except as a spectator. | ||
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Puzzled
Canada6 Posts
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:08 Fenrax wrote: Yeah, people are morons. Or this post won't get so much nodding. How about boxing and wresling (not the WWE stuff)? Are different weight categories also discrimination? Was Sugar Ray Robinson just an uncompetive fluke without any skill who was priviledged because of his weight? Were those ~10.000 medicocre heavyweights who would easily knock him out heads-up just discriminated because of their weight? Tennis and swimming don't involve punching each other in the face. 1 on 1 violent competition is only interesting when the opponents are evenly matched. If your arguing that women are evenly matched in things like tennis/football, theres 0 reason for segregation. You can't have it both ways =\ | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:13 Puzzled wrote: As a female playing this game, I can tell you that I am way more put off by the level of immaturity that I see from fellow players on the ladder boards than anything else. I can also tell you that there are a lot more women playing this game than you think there are; my name's pretty damn girly and I get lot more 'bros' and 'what kind of a guy would name himself tha you must be gay hurr hurr' BECAUSE THAT MUST BE THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD TO THINK GUYS ARE CUTE than 'are you a girl'. It's true that it's pretty clear that I wouldn't enjoy that level of juvenalia in person and I wouldn't enter an in-person tourney for that reason, but I think there are things to address that are a lot more off-putting than a fan club. Ladder != real life interaction with professionals | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:14 Eleaven wrote: Tennis and swimming don't involve punching each other in the face. 1 on 1 violent competition is only interesting when the opponents are evenly matched. If your arguing that women are evenly matched in things like tennis/football, theres 0 reason for segregation. You can't have it both ways =\ Gosh. They are not evenly matched. I never claimed that. Also there are different weight classed in sports that don't involve fighting, too. Like weight lifting. It is just an example on why you segregate sports because of physical differences that would make the competition unfair. It is so damn basic I feel stupid writing this. | ||
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nelvibus
United States5 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:02 Trajan98 wrote: Women can compete equally in things such as politics but in gaming and sports they are at a disadvantage. Anything that involves reaction times, physical speed and strength men will excel at over women because men have evolved over millions of years as hunters. As long as people see this as a gender difference and not a reason to be sexist, this quote is a very clear and accurate explanation of male dominance in competitive athletic and sporting evironments. Well put. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:19 Fenrax wrote: Gosh. They are not evenly matched. I never claimed that. Also there are different weight classed in sports that don't involve fighting, too. Like weight lifting. It is just an example on why you segregate sports because of physical differences that would make the competition unfair. It is so damn basic I feel stupid writing this. I'm confused as per what you guys are arguing about, whether there should be divisions in real sports? I'm personally fine with having sports segregated by clear physical limitations, there's no "Slow as fuck, football league" because being slow as fuck isn't an identifiable limitation. In things like boxing, weight lifting or anything where your weight gives you a direct advantage, it makes sense to segregate because of the clear limitations on someone who is physically smaller, I can't just gain 100 pounds and be in the same form as someone who is a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier, it just doesn't work. The question is whether this carries over to eSports which I don't think it does, games like Poker, Chess etc. I see no real reason to segregate based on gender. Once again, if we do, it's disappointing because this effectively means that women can't compete with men in physical sports or mental sports. | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:27 Mordiford wrote: I'm confused as per what you guys are arguing about, whether there should be divisions in real sports? I'm personally fine with having sports segregated by clear physical limitations, there's no "Slow as fuck, football league" because being slow as fuck isn't an identifiable limitation. In things like boxing, weight lifting or anything where your weight gives you a direct advantage, it makes sense to segregate because of the clear limitations on someone who is physically smaller, I can't just gain 100 pounds and be in the same form as someone who is a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier, it just doesn't work. The question is whether this carries over to eSports which I don't think it does, games like Poker, Chess etc. I see no real reason to segregate based on gender. Once again, if we do, it's disappointing because this effectively means that women can't compete with men in physical sports or mental sports. I was wondering how to succinctly put across my point, but you did the job for me rather well! thanks  | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
I'm studying accounting right now and it is a female dominated profession it seems, I've checked the numbers and its always been more females. Nobody complains. Nobody cares if women take part, if you want come along and nobody will shun, if you don't then be that way. edit: No women's leagues => When there is no physical matter involved, don't a shitton of studies show that women multitask better? then they should kill at RTS. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:35 Bibdy wrote: Thing is 'we' aren't the ones segregating them. It's voluntary on their own part. We arent the ones that create the female-only leagues and say 'you sit in this corner over here'. Truth spoken again. "we" and "them" and "people" get a lot of blame for things. It seems the general feeling in threads about females is "we want you to earn respect the same way we have to, since this is a completely even playing field" and then a couple of misguided guys will start posting: NO WAY MAN SO OUT OF ORDER SHE A FINE GURRL SUM1 SET UP FAN CLUB That seems to me way more sexist than the first statement of earning respect on equal terms | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:13 Puzzled wrote: As a female playing this game, I can tell you that I am way more put off by the level of immaturity that I see from fellow players on the ladder boards than anything else. I can also tell you that there are a lot more women playing this game than you think there are; my name's pretty damn girly and I get lot more 'bros' and 'what kind of a guy would name himself tha you must be gay hurr hurr' BECAUSE THAT MUST BE THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD TO THINK GUYS ARE CUTE than 'are you a girl'. It's true that it's pretty clear that I wouldn't enjoy that level of juvenalia in person and I wouldn't enter an in-person tourney for that reason, but I think there are things to address that are a lot more off-putting than a fan club. truth. the "fag" words seems to be the new GamerBoy trend. A person who calls a girl a fag online is very low, like excrement low. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:15 Eleaven wrote: Ladder != real life interaction with professionals ladder = playing with anonymous dumb fuck ragers ladder != professional | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:49 IzieBoy wrote: truth. the "fag" words seems to be the new GamerBoy trend. A person who calls a girl a fag online is very low, like excrement low. Why are the excrement low if they call a girl a fag online? Are they also excrement low if they call a guy a fag online? I don't see why you made the distinction. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:51 IzieBoy wrote: ladder = playing with anonymous dumb fuck ragers ladder != professional I think the ragers are hilarious. I hate ladder more when it turns ME into one of those profanity-spewing human rejects. Sometimes, when you're on a bad run, you just can't contain the Beast any more. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:40 Eleaven wrote: It seems the general feeling in threads about females is "we want you to earn respect the same way we have to, since this is a completely even playing field" and then a couple of misguided guys will start posting: NO WAY MAN SO OUT OF ORDER SHE A FINE GURRL SUM1 SET UP FAN CLUB That's EXACTLY how this thread went. Here a photo of you discussing everyone into the ground: click | ||
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probob
Germany227 Posts
On July 15 2011 11:00 SonicTitan wrote: When the shit hit the fan, the thread her shoot was posted in was immediately bogged down with two kinds of posts: those saying she had no business doing a photo shoot at all and those saying that those that didn't like her photo shoot were sexist - and probably gay. I'll say it right now: I was disgusted by the shoot. I never posted in that thread, because the whole thing was a cluster-fuck, but I was absolutely appalled. The problem is that 99% of her detractors were posting ad hominem insults about her physical appearance, instead of the deeper underlying issue with the shoot: this woman, who has barely if at all done ANYTHING for our scene, is now trying to buy her way into it using her sexuality. THAT, friends, is the definition of sexism, and we had every right and reason to run her out of town. Why in hell would someone like Kelly NOT do a photoshoot. Because maybe some weirdo nerds on the internet think shes not attractive enough or selling out or whatever? Did you ever think that maybe she did it for herself because she liked the pictures and it has nothing to do at all with Starcraft? | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On July 15 2011 10:07 Nothingtosay wrote: The primary events that sparked this thread where the creation of two fan clubs that personally view as extremely premature. Namely the Lindsey Sporrer fanclub and the slayers_eve fan club. IN all honesty besides being born female what have either of these people done to warrant a fan club at all? The sporrer fanclub has 53 pages in 3 days, the day9 fan club in comparison has 134 pages and has been active for over one year. Yeah, I have to agree with it. It's partly how most societies are (a bit sexist) and partly how a lot of people in the gaming/nerd communities are (ie. "omg a girl gamer?!?") Personally, I don't give a care about gender. That said, I don't care about Sporrer (whoever that is), or Slayers_Eve (whoever that is) because I don't care about their gender. If say however one of them were to do a lot of things like say Artosis or something, then I'd say that's worthy of a fair-sized fan club. Seeing as the reality is quite the opposite, I can't quite see why. Could someone explain to me why this happens other than my above stated causes? Even with the second one, I don't think most people here are a super hardcore variant of nerd that they have not the slightest of similarities to any girls they have met, that they would become overly ecstatic over (after checking just now) someone who is an interviewer for SC players and someone who is a lower player on Slayers. Because maybe some weirdo nerds on the internet think shes not attractive enough Maybe it's because I've been a bit spoiled by some quite fine ladies, but I don't find kelly too attractive. She's attractive 'enough' for a photoshoot, but so are most girls who haven't put on a ton of weight. Just do their make-up fine, and you have a whole different person (you would be extremely surprised what make-up can do, assuming you don't know). Btw, don't be offended that I don't find her too pretty. That's simply my opinion. As a final note to the people here in general, please don't compare physical sports to competitive video gaming. While females are naturally not as strong or quick as men, their mental faculties and abilities are the same as those of men. That said, a co-gender SC team need not be all-male if there are female players who are outstanding, unlike in competitive physical sports where just the physical disparity would force any proposed co-gender teams to be all-male most of the time. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
On July 16 2011 03:53 Mordiford wrote: Why are the excrement low if they call a girl a fag online? Are they also excrement low if they call a guy a fag online? I don't see why you made the distinction. Well it's cuz a guy can usually come back with some snarky comment about the other's female relatives probably with some actual heart-felt intent involved as well. A girl would be like "i'm a girl? i like guys?" which leads to availability for more verbal attacks. basically with guys, it's just slander; with girls, it becomes verbal abuse to be twisting things to make her feel bad. | ||
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