EPTNigerian "Baby Factory" Raided. - Page 6
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Shagg
Finland825 Posts
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TeWy
France714 Posts
Could you please indicate your sources on that ? Europeans didn't disposess Africa of any natural ressources, Africa never thought at exploiting them... They never managed to build a mine and organize a structure to marchandize them... Europeans created the demand of Uranium, not Nigerians. Europeans invented the structure to exploit Uranium, not Nigerians. And the locals are quite happy to be hired by oh so oppressive colonizers. The French would do well to kindly fuck off with neo-imperialist tendencies and maybe, just maybe, not do something as stupid as prolonging genocide in Rwanda with a "humanitarian intervention". What the fuck is that supposed to mean, how are the French responsible for the Rwanda genocide... Ethnic division and ethnic cleansing, war between tribes is what Africa has been about for millenia, and it is still happening in some area ... Africans are the one choosing to kill each other, it isn't the Chinese government who is pushing the janjawid to rape and kill in Darfur, but Arab nationalists. What you need to accept is that if it wasn't for the Europeans the Maghreb would have no electricity and a large portion of the Subsaharan Africa would still live in muds. Vaccination, technologies, various infrastructures such as schools and hospitals,... this is the positive side of colonization. Without the Western and particulary the American aid, all these countries would starve. If you truely believe that Africa was some kind of fairy tale before the colonization and that they would have joyfully stick to their culture and subsistence farming without us, then there's nothing I can do for you. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
Excuse me HK, Singapore and Malaysia were primarily "exploited" as you would term instead of being settler colonies, there is just no arguing this. Africa (note, I use this as a generalised term of course out of convenience - excluding egypt and so on) has achieved almost nothing pre-colonisation and nothing post-colonisation despite their great natural wealth. You look at their situation prior to the imperialist boom, and see if anything was actually going on in Africa. How advanced Africa was, or if they made any sort of contribution to the world. Have you actually heard anything about non-Islamic influenced African civilization other than the Egyptians? What, the Malis? Ask yourself this - was Africa in great shape before mass colonisation? It goes to show they can't rule themselves and make progress. | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
On June 02 2011 16:55 baoluvboa wrote: Because the blatant inequality in wealth distribution of the world is caused by racial superiority right? Blacks are clearly innately inferior which is why they are poor and don't deserve foreign aids. Imperialism didn't exist at all. we stole their resources and people? slavery in the US was a long time ago.. unless you are talking about something else? We study history for a reason. The impact of slavery and imperialism has lasting impacts which is evident by today's standing in wealth. Japan has had both Imperialism, AND slavery. Why are they not a third world country like some African nations? | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:10 RoosterSamurai wrote: Japan has had both Imperialism, AND slavery. Why are they not a third world country like some African nations? We don't take kindly to people applying logic when we are busy trying to pretend that Africa was the utopia that the white man stole from us. | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:13 zalz wrote: We don't take kindly to people applying logic when we are busy trying to pretend that Africa was the utopia that the white man stole from us. Oh ok sorry. I'll just leave, then. | ||
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TWIX_Heaven
Denmark169 Posts
So many uninformed and uneducated people in this thread, its super sad to say the least. People need to understand that all this "Imperialism was like waaaay back" or "lol slavery was like a thousand years ago get over yourself" comments are pure bullshit on way too many levels. A whole great deal of what's happening in a lot of African countries has a lot more to do with "us, the westerners" than a lot of people here seem to think (or at least would like to think). Now I could go in to great detail about outsourcing giant debt, Euro and American farm aid or many other things that contribute to starving a continent a whole lot more than people realize, but for now i will just say that YES we are causing (a great deal of it) the problem and YES a lot of the aid IS doing good (in most cases, but more on this if you ask) and to end it off we COULD do a lot more help by stopping to do a whole lot of bad. Now, there are countries in Africa that do fairly well, and are better off than most countries, and so this post is not really to make Africa seem like an overall terrible place (there are lots of nice people and prosperous places). But we still need to look to places like Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Somalia ect. and think to ourselves: Why is this going on! Genocide? Corruption? Civil war? Starvation? I mean these seem like pretty internal issues right? We couldn't possibly have anything to with that right? As a matter of sad fact we can, and we do. A prime example is the Farm aid that the EU and US give to their own farmers to keep a dying business alive, now the deal is that a farmer get more money the more he produces, (even if he cant sell his goods) and so this leads in a lot of cases to overproduction, then all of these excess goods are being send and sold to places like Africa. Now this could be seen as a good thing, as they end up selling extremely cheap goods to poor people, but as a matter of fact is extremely hurtful. Because the local production cant keep up, and they cant compete on prices, they end up without work, thus creating more poverty and more need for cheap goods. Now if the farmers didn't get the aid, it would not pay to sell their goods for the same prices, and locals could compete in a fair environment. Instead they cant, and because of import limitations in US and EU, they (African production companies) furthermore have a extremely hard time exporting stuff, thus putting them in a even harder spot to deal with poverty. I could go on and on about stuff we could stop doing, and by doing so helping Africa as a continent. However i will stop now and just say that the good old TIA doesn't make much sense any more, and WE as a community CAN and SHOULD help struggling countries with education, health care and business. But before we can do this to a point where it generates success, we need first to look inwards and see where we are hurting the situation and then back off, (if we want to, which i doubt governments want, as they are making a shit ton on Africa). Just my 2 cent - | ||
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Kniwom
South Africa17 Posts
On June 02 2011 20:41 necroticah wrote: Honestly, I wish it were as easy as "look, we got fucked a few years ago, let's try to fix all that." Unfortunately, Africa is not capable of living a Western World Way. People in top spots of each country had the same education as other top people in other countries, do not, for one minute believe that the president of South Africa / Nigeria, even Sudan had no education. These are educated people, it's the mentality of "Hell, I suffered and passed, why can't they?" that's plagueing this continent. Also, too many people here have strong beliefs that their way is the right way, and they are sure as hell ready to fight for it. Sorry, but you cannot be seriously saying the president of South Africa has the same education as any other state leader. He grew up as a goat-herder and never formally attended school. The reason he got elected, and one of the main reasons democracy fails in Africa (as well as elsewhere) is that people vote for whoever they think is most like them rather than who is best for the job. | ||
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Lzuruha.FantaSy
United States59 Posts
On June 02 2011 20:08 DisaFear wrote: Absolutely. Time and time again, I see 3/4 plates full of food just dumped into bins, etc It is just pure sickening. Good society? Ha I dont get why this comes up should we stuff ourselves when we are not hungry because Africans dont have food? | ||
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aeoliant
Canada361 Posts
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KingVietKong
United States170 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:10 RoosterSamurai wrote: Japan has had both Imperialism, AND slavery. Why are they not a third world country like some African nations? Uh.... this is pretty blatantly inaccurate, as what you're saying is that because Japan took slaves and were imperialistic they should thus be like Africa. Japan has never (ever) been subject to Africa-levels of either, especially not simultaneously, and ESPECIALLY not since it has been known as Japan. So, unless I'm just too tired and not reading the sarcasm in this, here's what I got: I'm not going to sustain an argument with you about it, because this whole thread is a god damned factory for misinformation and stupidity and reading 3 pages of it has caused brain to leak out my ears, so I'm sure I won't even convince you how ridiculous what you just posted is, despite the fact that I know for certain far more than you about this topic. But I'll tell you this; even implying that Japan had remotely similar conditions to Africa, at pretty much any time in history (perhaps during the Jurassic they were somewhat similar socioeconomically) is appallingly ignorant. If you are being sarcastic, and I hope to holy Buddha you are, then well played. More importantly, why the FUCK is a thread about a baby factory now a thread about imperialism? Focus people! | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:17 TWIX_Heaven wrote: Sigh.... So many uninformed and uneducated people in this thread, its super sad to say the least. People need to understand that all this "Imperialism was like waaaay back" or "lol slavery was like a thousand years ago get over yourself" comments are pure bullshit on way too many levels. A whole great deal of what's happening in a lot of African countries has a lot more to do with "us, the westerners" than a lot of people here seem to think (or at least would like to think). Now I could go in to great detail about outsourcing giant debt, Euro and American farm aid or many other things that contribute to starving a continent a whole lot more than people realize, but for now i will just say that YES we are causing (a great deal of it) the problem and YES a lot of the aid IS doing good (in most cases, but more on this if you ask) and to end it off we COULD do a lot more help by stopping to do a whole lot of bad. Now, there are countries in Africa that do fairly well, and are better off than most countries, and so this post is not really to make Africa seem like an overall terrible place (there are lots of nice people and prosperous places). But we still need to look to places like Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Somalia ect. and think to ourselves: Why is this going on! Genocide? Corruption? Civil war? Starvation? I mean these seem like pretty internal issues right? We couldn't possibly have anything to with that right? As a matter of sad fact we can, and we do. A prime example is the Farm aid that the EU and US give to their own farmers to keep a dying business alive, now the deal is that a farmer get more money the more he produces, (even if he cant sell his goods) and so this leads in a lot of cases to overproduction, then all of these excess goods are being send and sold to places like Africa. Now this could be seen as a good thing, as they end up selling extremely cheap goods to poor people, but as a matter of fact is extremely hurtful. Because the local production cant keep up, and they cant compete on prices, they end up without work, thus creating more poverty and more need for cheap goods. Now if the farmers didn't get the aid, it would not pay to sell their goods for the same prices, and locals could compete in a fair environment. Instead they cant, and because of import limitations in US and EU, they (African production companies) furthermore have a extremely hard time exporting stuff, thus putting them in a even harder spot to deal with poverty. I could go on and on about stuff we could stop doing, and by doing so helping Africa as a continent. However i will stop now and just say that the good old TIA doesn't make much sense any more, and WE as a community CAN and SHOULD help struggling countries with education, health care and business. But before we can do this to a point where it generates success, we need first to look inwards and see where we are hurting the situation and then back off, (if we want to, which i doubt governments want, as they are making a shit ton on Africa). Just my 2 cent - So let me get this straight, you think that the current aid which is already gigantic is not enough and that we should do more. You think that all these Western association, and that the fact that the Europeans working class is currently financially sustaining Africa, repaying all their debts, is not enough but that "we" should do more, and furthermore, not take any advantage from the situation ? Sir, in what world are you living ? Which European leader would accept to dilapidate the wealth of its indebted nation to volunteerely help the fishers in Zimbabwe ? Not to mention that most of this money is going to be intercepted by corrupted leaders and so on. | ||
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sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:05 shadymmj wrote: There's no denying that Africa was exploited longer than any other colony, but that's simply glossing over what other countries have been through, including the post opium war division and plundering of China etc. Excuse me HK, Singapore and Malaysia were primarily "exploited" as you would term instead of being settler colonies, there is just no arguing this. No Just No Singapore and Malaysia was not exploited by the British AT ALL Singaporean and Malaysian still think that British as their 'old master' till this day since British have been very nice to the population and give them everything including INDEPENDENCE Indonesia just south of them IS exploited by the Dutch and have to fought almost 2 decades of war until finally gain its independence and is still a fuck up mess till this day with ripe corruption, high poverty level and higher than average crime rate in the region please stop talking about something you have no idea about | ||
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orn
Australia76 Posts
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
If Malaysia and Singapore were not colonised for the purpose of, well, let's not call it exploitation, but basically in British interests, then what the heck were they doing there in the first place? I'm not denying that the British did a great job with those countries - colonisation was good! But the fact is that Malaysia was a great source of rubber and Singapore had a great strategic location to pitch a trading port there. You mean to tell me that the British gave these two countries preferential treatment in the colonisation game? And what is ripe corruption? | ||
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TWIX_Heaven
Denmark169 Posts
We don't take kindly to people applying logic when we are busy trying to pretend that Africa was the utopia that the white man stole from us. Calling that a logical comparison is most likely the single most stupid thing I have heard in half a year or so. Damn..... But in a way I guess we all own the right to such ignorance. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:31 orn wrote: That's just fucked up. And what's this about raping toddlers to get rid of AIDS? Seriously? Educate these people already. If you've got AIDS, you'll believe anything to get rid of it since it'll kill you. Possibly the most educated lose their minds over it. | ||
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Cirn9
1117 Posts
Hassan said the owner of the "illegal baby factory" is likely to face child abuse and human trafficking charges. "illegal baby factory" Makes it sound to me like there are legal ones | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:34 shadymmj wrote: Because people keep pushing the blame to westerners, thinking that all colonisation did was turn Africa into chaos - allow me to say that if no foreign man and none of his inventions had ever stepped into central/southern africa, maybe they would be finding out how to build a power grid just about now. I guess if the Mongols didn't run rampant around the world for a while most people would have no idea about effective horseback artillery and crude siege weapons, thereby stalling the development of Europe for 3,000 years /sarcasm Your stupidity is truly amazing | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:40 Ace wrote: I guess if the Mongols didn't run rampant around the world for a while most people would have no idea about effective horseback artillery and crude siege weapons, thereby stalling the development of Europe for 3,000 years /sarcasm Your stupidity is truly amazing And how is that relevant to modern civilization again...? I would say the same of you, by the way. | ||
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