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Sermokala
United States13901 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:36 KSMB wrote: What the hell? Please tell us you are trolling. Please. If not, that is so sad. You think that we're all nothing but a freak accident on the uncompromisable scale of the universe? How sad. See what I did there? | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:41 IntoTheWow wrote: For attention? He contacted the principal in private. Someone leaked his name. Exactly. To all the people trying to rationalize it as an attention grab, he tried to keep it private but the school administrators wanted to persecute him so they released his name and had the whole community and his family kick him out. | ||
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Natsumar
United States91 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:37 sermokala wrote: Because your white and an atheist why would you need an Imam? That Youth pastor was probably asked to do it and he came willingly whats wrong with that? As long as hes a visitor and not an employee of the state its perfectly fine. My point was that if they wanted Christian prayer, then I'm bringing in every religion right along with it. Hence the Imam. | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:38 Probulous wrote: I am sure if you had asked before hand for a separate meal, it could have been accomodated. Not really, the halal food concept stretches to cooking as well. If you cook non halal food in a pan, that pan is no longer suitable for cooking halal food. (if you're super strict, and Muslims pls correct me if I'm wrong) | ||
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tryummm
774 Posts
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valedictory
United States37 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:41 sermokala wrote: You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it? What are you talking about its structure and tone? The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating. Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates? I don't quite understand what you are trying to say anymore. Are you arguing against science in general? Specific fields of science? Are you suggesting scientific revisioning? Are you saying state should not be allowed to sponsor science when its results or conclusions are inconsistent with the religions or beliefs of individuals? | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:39 MaestroSC wrote: I honestly LOVE people who say "he is 18 why would he have to listen to his parents" he doesnt....unless he wants their help lol. Congrats guy u tried to stop a prayer that obviously the majority wanted, cause you are a selfish prick and could only think of yourself and what you want. The guy obviously did it for attention and nothing else. Do you really think he was offended? Lets be honest he was just being a dick and tried to be a pain in the ass for fame/attention. congrats u got every1s attention. Hope it was worth it lolol. He is getting exactly what he asked for. Everyone knows who he is. LOL at this kid realizing as long as he wants to use mommys and daddys money they make the rules. I would have done the same exact thing to my kid for being a little prick. "Enjoy your freedom....without my money." I love reading the posts about this kid and his "rights" and "freedoms" lol. Fine enjoy your freedom and rights. Keep up the good fight. now stfu and be a martyr in silence I hope it was worth it. sorry the entire world doesnt function in hypotheticals. Way to exercise your 1st Amendment rights to denigrate his. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:41 sermokala wrote: You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it? What are you talking about its structure and tone? The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating. Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates? Do you realize that carbon dating is only used for things 60,000 years old to things a few thousand years old? And that other dating methods are used for time periods outside that range? | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
What pathetic wastes of human life they are. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
If he didn't want to pray, he could've just taken a nap instead of going and threatening to inform the ACLU. This world isn't meant for the person. That's, unfortunately, isn't how this world works. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:42 WGarrison wrote: An anti-prayer law is equally as unconstitutional as the original issue and in fact violates the same amendment. There is no anti-prayer law. Just that no prayer can be part of government activity. Individual students can pray on their own, but having a school representative lead the prayer at a school event is what is illegal. | ||
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krbz
United States66 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote: I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book. Evolution is backed by studies, experiments, statistics, and is widely verifiable by many people. Christianity is backed by nothing but a 2000 year old book. The two are not in any way comparable. You're situation is flawed. | ||
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Popss
Sweden176 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:42 IntoTheWow wrote: Actually tradition is a source of rights, but only where law and doctrine don't say anything, if I remember correctly. I find it hilarious though that these things can cause a ruckus in the U.S. In Sweden which is one of the least religious countries in the entire world everyone goes to church at the end of semester until they finish high school. Why? Because it's a tradition and no parent is really scared that listening to a priest for half an hour is gonna twist the minds of their children. It was always really boring though  | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
Fair is fair, and if they cant see that its just goes to show how ignorant they are. but damn, if the parents really thew him out wtf? they need to be fuckin need taught a lesson.. | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:46 krbz wrote: Evolution is backed by studies, experiments, statistics, and is widely verifiable by many people. Christianity is backed by nothing but a 2000 year old book. The two are not in any way comparable. You're situation is flawed. New Testament was fully compiled only 300 years A.D. so it's only 1700 years old. Old Testament I'm not sure. | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:41 sermokala wrote: You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it? What are you talking about its structure and tone? The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating. Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates? Uhh, i highly doubt the argument for the theory of evolution was made for the purpose of hating religion lol. and how the fuck does the Big Bang theory get tied into human evolution lol? you sound like youre ranting and throwing all of the things that piss you off into one bundle. Just because they contradict your belief doesnt mean they were all created to attack your beliefs. Oh and how wildly inaccurate is carbon dating? I honestly dont know anything about carbon dating so if you could send me a link about its inaccuracies id greatly appreciate that | ||
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aguy38
131 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:47 Popss wrote: I find it hilarious though that these things can cause a ruckus in the U.S. In Sweden which is one of the least religious countries in the entire world everyone goes to church at the end of semester until they finish high school. Why? Because it's a tradition and no parent is really scared that listening to a priest for half an hour is gonna twist the minds of their children. It was always really boring though I think that Sweden has already passed through a phase that America is currently going through. We are seeing religion steadily shrink. | ||
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valedictory
United States37 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:46 krbz wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote: I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book. Evolution is backed by studies, experiments, statistics, and is widely verifiable by many people. Christianity is backed by nothing but a 2000 year old book. The two are not in any way comparable. You're situation is flawed. I don't think this is the right approach. Really the distinction is that Christianity is not derived through the scientific method, is explicitly a religion and the state does not sponsor religion. Criticisms of motivations for religious beliefs only preach to the choir (no pun intended). | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:48 Supamang wrote: Oh and how wildly inaccurate is carbon dating? I honestly dont know anything about carbon dating so if you could send me a link about its inaccuracies id greatly appreciate that Summary: Its not | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
So, the first Lee v. Weisman (1992) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman which was about prayer at a public high school's graduation! I wonder how that is relevant! Anyways, in that case a Jewish rabbi was invited to give a prayer, and the state had to argue taht the prayer wouldn't be unconstitutional due to it being a 1) voluntary ceremony (you don't have to attend graduation to receive diploma) and also 2) nonsectarian. As anyone can go read on wikipedia, the court ended up dismissing those arguments and ruled the holding that including a clergy-led prayer within the events of a public high school graduation violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. As Justice Kennedy wrote of the "voluntary" graduation ceremony. "To say a teenage student has a real choice not to attend her high school graduation is formalistic in the extreme. True, Deborah could elect not to attend commencement without renouncing her diploma; but we shall not allow the case to turn on this point. Everyone knows that, in our society and in our culture, high school graduation is one of life's most significant occasions. A school rule which excuses attendance is beside the point. Attendance may not be required by official decree, yet it is apparent that a student is not free to absent herself from the graduation exercise in any real sense of the term "voluntary," for absence would require forfeiture of those intangible benefits which have motivated the student through youth and all her high school years." 505 U.S. 577, 595. recap so far: any clergy-led prayer at a high school graduation is strictly unconstitutional; any argument that the prayer is "voluntary" is dismissed. But wait you'll say! This apparently was a student prayer! A student is not a clergy/rabbi/imam/whatever. I base this off the video posted that shows what I assume to be a student holding the prayer. However, let's look at Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe (2000) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Fe_Independent_School_Dist._v._Doe. In that case, people challenged student-led student-initiated prayer over the intercom during pre-football game activities. The court found that to be unconstitutional; quoting wikipedia about this case: It held that these pre-game prayers delivered "on school property, at school-sponsored events, over the school's public address system, by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty, and pursuant to a school policy that explicitly and implicitly encourages public prayer" are not private, but public speech. Now, this graduation prayer is also given on school property at a school sponsored event, and any student giving the prayer is assumed to be representing the student body and thus the school. summary: Lee vs Weisman basically bans prayer from public school graduation ceremonies. Santa Fe case was ruled after Lee, but that further banned student-led prayer at school-sponsored events (which I assume a graduation ceremony would fall under). tl;dr: prayer has been found unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court at public high school graduation ceremonies before, and similarly the Court finds student-led student-initiated prayer at other school-sponsored events to be unconstitutional. If the prayer is given in any way over the intercom system (microphone) or whatever, it is unconstitutional. Arguments that a graduation may be "voluntary" are found to be irrelevant, struck down in the Lee case. | ||
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