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Student gets ostracized for refusing to pray - Page 11

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Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 27 2011 05:49 GMT
#201
As I said before, you really should take a look at the history of the First Amendment to see how this has been interpreted through the years. To say HERP DERP First Amendment is an extremely simple way of understanding this.

I wouldn't recommend reading too many though because after a while you realize they are just going blah blah blah here's my biased opinion. :p
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
May 27 2011 05:49 GMT
#202
On May 27 2011 14:43 sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:36 KSMB wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.

What the hell? Please tell us you are trolling. Please. If not, that is so sad.



You think that we're all nothing but a freak accident on the uncompromisable scale of the universe? How sad. See what I did there?


How is that sad? It's wonderful. That we exist solely to worship our creator or be discarded into eternal torment is what's sad. What kind of father has children for the sole purpose of making them worship him? Ego much?
Emperor_Earth
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States824 Posts
May 27 2011 05:49 GMT
#203
On May 27 2011 14:42 ghrur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:37 Emperor_Earth wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:23 ghrur wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:56 travis wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:53 Diglett wrote:
the article is incredibly biased so it's hard to make a good opinion. but all i see a smartass kid trying to troll the school and from that, the whole community screwed him. stupid kid, stupid school, teachers, parents, etc.


Could you explain where the bias in the article is?

On May 27 2011 13:55 ghrur wrote:
You couldn't have quoted a less inflammatory article in a less obviously inflammatory way? Look, I no way condone the actions of the community, but I really hate this article being so heavily biased towards atheists (despite being one.) I'd rather call the community stupid and crazy rather than turn it into a Christian vs Atheists argument.


you too


Of course.

It takes the actions of a few and generalizes across to the whole. Specifically, it takes the actions of one southern community and generalizes it to all Christians. It also takes the actions of a few atheists as proof of the whole atheistic community. And it does this without reliable statistics that allow you to do so.

Example:

There's the ugly reality of anti-atheist bigotry and discrimination across the country -- especially in high schools. According to JT Eberhard, high school specialist for the Secular Student Alliance, "In Alabama, Auburn High School is refusing to allow an SSA affiliate. In Cranston, Rhode Island, a public school is facing an ACLU suit for refusing to take down a sectarian prayer [a banner posted in the school gym]. In Texas we had a student who was told he could have a secular club if he called it a philosophy club and didn't affiliate with the SSA. The list of similar situations is a mile long and these are only the ones I've become aware of in my first four and a half months on the job. The Fowler incident is much closer to being the norm than the exception."

There are rants about religion to be had here as well. There's the level of not only hostility, but panicked hostility, when entrenched religion gets its privileged status threatened. There's the way that religion relies on social consensus to perpetuate itself -- and how, when that consensus is threatened, it commonly reacts by smacking down dissent and expelling dissenters.


The first paragraph claims that this is the norm with three examples. Then it transitions to the second paragraph quoted to rant about religion. This is specifically hostile against religion, blaming them as the cause, and therefore the antithesis (atheism) is to be supported. It also insinuates that the norm for religious communities is to harass atheists or have an "anti-atheist bigotry." Really, that's far from the truth.

The article also uses diction to stress the connection between the community and Christians in general. Note:
When a high school atheist tried to stop prayer at his graduation, he was harassed and kicked out of his house
See, instead of high school student, it's high school atheist right before prayer. At his graduation means that the school is the Christian entity. Further support for this claim?
Damon Fowler, an atheist student
Stressing atheism with Fowler. School with Christian.

They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway.

They = school. Graduation prayer = school. Prayer = Religious, Christian thing to do. School = Christian.

And Damon is fortunate enough to have the backing of the atheist community

Damon = atheist. Making it clear. My god, this quote even juxtaposes the communities by basically saying atheist community = good, Damon's community = Christians = bad.

And that's the way the atheist community has stepped up to the plate

Once again, juxtaposing atheist community with Christian community (because one stepped up to the plate, who didn't? Christian community is implied).

So basically, the article is subtly (well, not really) arguing the superiority of the Atheist community to the Christian community.

Oh, and of course, there's loaded language here too to specifically cause hatred against the community in question.
Ostracized, demeaned, threatened, pilloried, hounded, etc. then connecting those actions back to Christians using the things I said above. Can you really say this isn't biased against the Christian community? Just take a look at the condescending tone it uses too.

Oh, and by the way? They went ahead and had the graduation prayer anyway.

Implication: Christians ignore the law.

It's a law and a Constitution that protects everybody, not just atheists. If you wouldn't want to be subjected to a government-sponsored Buddhist prayer, you ought not to be subjecting others to a government-sponsored Christian prayer.

Okay. I hope that's clear

Implication: I know the law; I know the Constitution. You don't because you're a Christian. Let me explain it for you.

In other words: Because the majority of students want an unconstitutional prayer at their graduation, therefore they're in the right.

Implication: Christians think majority is always right, despite it being unconstitutional.

There's the lack of understanding in the United States about fundamental civics: the all-too-common belief that "majority rules" in every situation, and the all-too-common failure to comprehend the principle that the minority has basic civil rights.

Implication: Christians across the US don't understand fundamental civics.

And of course -- duh -- there's separation of church and state. There's the principle that a public school should not be sponsoring prayers at graduations. What with that being a government establishment of religion and all, and thus being -- oh, what's that word? -- unconstitutional.

Implication: Christians don't understand separation of Church and State.

Yup. I would be fine reporting the event, but making a whole deal of Christians are bad vs Atheists are good just annoys the crap out of me.


First of all, let me commend you for your efforts and style. This is exactly the type of constructive posting that leads to healthy debates.

But... you are quoting the OP, not the article. Clearly, as you also so thoroughly shown in your own way, the OP is not unbiased.


Hmmm? I thought the OP quoted the article, therefore I quoted the OP to quote the article.


Alas we must go back to both the first rules of journalism/law. Go to the source.

The OP took a few liberties with the "article", which was more of a first hand timeline with a memo from the subject's brother.
@Emperor_Earth ------- "Amat Victoria Curam."
KSMB
Profile Joined April 2011
United States100 Posts
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#204
On May 27 2011 14:43 sermokala wrote:You think that we're all nothing but a freak accident on the uncompromisable scale of the universe? How sad. See what I did there?

I guess you are serious. It is indeed very sad you are so monumentally ignorant about science.
Q2CTF
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#205
On May 27 2011 14:44 johanngrunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:38 Probulous wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:36 TheLink wrote:
Oh, just thought up a good comparison.

I went to a predominantly Muslim school (I'm agnostic), and during school events/graduation dinner I was forced to eat halal meat as nothing else was provided. Should I have declared that this was illegal and forced my own graduation dinner to be cancelled? I mean I'm against animal cruelty and the whole slit the throat and let them bleed out thing.


I am sure if you had asked before hand for a separate meal, it could have been accomodated.



Not really, the halal food concept stretches to cooking as well. If you cook non halal food in a pan, that pan is no longer suitable for cooking halal food. (if you're super strict, and Muslims pls correct me if I'm wrong)


They could've ordered you a pizza.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13892 Posts
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#206
On May 27 2011 14:43 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:41 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:33 Probulous wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:22 Zzoram wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:20 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:50 EmeraldSparks wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:48 aguy38 wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:47 EmeraldSparks wrote:
Everybody involved should probably be sent to a gulag.

including the kid?

Well, he can go if he wants to.

I heard atheists are big on gulags.


This post has very great depth and I admire it.

On May 27 2011 14:14 Zzoram wrote:
I'm sure all of America would be outraged if a public school with a sizable Muslim population held prayers to Allah but not Christian prayers during graduation. Christianity holds an undoubtedly priviliged place in America despite claims of religious equality and freedom.


Theres actually a practicing muslum in my class for graduation. Hes given a pass out of class at the proper times so he can pray in silence and during tests he just does it in class right there. The common consensus is "I don't give a shit" Its like America is Team liquid and the church is another poster. Its been around for so long and contributed so much (and done great sins as well) that the mods put him higher then the newer people.

But really Guys its the deep south and the kid was being a smart ass the way he simply "demanded" that the prayer be canceled. They still have chaplains in the military and they still pray in the sport house's before each game in the successful schools. I'm not saying anything about the situation was right but the Person who wrote this (lets be honest) blog is horribly biased and acts like the majority of america is Christian still. Which it frankly isn't.

TLDR: I don't want to study evolution and have to have that shuved down my throat to get a good grade in that class but I keep my mouth shut and get though it and don't call the ALCU.


The Muslim student is doing a personal prayer, that's fine. The school could've had a moment of silence for all the students to do their own personal prayers. When an individual representing the school does an official prayer on behalf of the school, that's where the violation of the constitutional right occurs.



Evolution is science, it's ok to teach science in science class.

Prayers are religion, it's not ok for the school to have an official prayer since government isn't allowed to favor one religion over another.



I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.


Except that you would probably look at its history, the way it was written. How events influenced its structure, the tone etc.

You would not get up and tell everyone to believe everything in the book.

As for evolution, there is evidence to back it up. The whole idea is for it to be examined and questioned. The foundation of science is questioning, hence if you do an science subject you are expected to question things. If you don't like it, don't go to science class.



You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it? What are you talking about its structure and tone? The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating. Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates?


What? radiocarbon dating is pretty damn accurate lol. Religious hate from evolution theory today? The synthesis was merely a way to finally reconcile questions that Darwin could not answer because of the lack of knowledge of genetics.


Its far too late for me to point out the obvious response's about radio carbon dateing but I'll just link the wiki and be done with that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating go down to calibration if your lazy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/ And Yes I'm oursourceing my argument again If it was such a wildly accepted Theory then how come no one will allow debate other said "synthesis"

A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#207
On May 27 2011 14:39 DeepBlu2 wrote:
Of course he has the right to call for the removal of the prayer and he shouldn't receive so much backlash from the community for it. People don't consider the constitution in their daily lives, but these people do consider religion in their lives, which is why this situation is a huge deal for them. The only thing they are doing is being hypocritical. I do however, think that he regrets doing it as he's basically lost all the people who cared about him, and his belongings that were important to him like his own home. Such a terrible story showing the modern day hypocrisy in some of these places.


Then again, he also gained something. For example he found out some very important, if unpleasant, things about his parents.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
rbx270j
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 05:53:04
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#208
On May 27 2011 13:57 Spacekyod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 13:54 rycho wrote:
just another horrible thing religion has done to the world

at least a priest didn't rape him and he wasn't killed in a crusade, it could be worse


This is man doing this in the name of religion, not religion itself. Atleast not christianity. Nowhere in the bible does it preach to ostracize and harrass others.



well, I know of 3 spots in Deuteronomy that advocate killing, at least in my version of the KJB. I don't know offhand of any parts that limit it to harass and ostracize, and I'm sure there's one or two somewhere in the book
+ Show Spoiler +
17:12, 13:13-19, 13:7-12
krbz
Profile Joined April 2011
United States66 Posts
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#209
On May 27 2011 14:43 sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:36 KSMB wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.

What the hell? Please tell us you are trolling. Please. If not, that is so sad.



You think that we're all nothing but a freak accident on the uncompromisable scale of the universe? How sad. See what I did there?



You think that some old man in the sky grants wishes, made the earth in 7 days, and the only way he could save our sins was too impregnate a virgin and then allow him self to be killed?

O ya and this whole universe was just for us? cuzzz were his "special" people?

See what i did there?
TheLink
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia2725 Posts
May 27 2011 05:50 GMT
#210
On May 27 2011 14:46 krbz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:

I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.


Evolution is backed by studies, experiments, statistics, and is widely verifiable by many people.

Christianity is backed by nothing but a 2000 year old book.

The two are not in any way comparable. You're situation is flawed.


See thats an Atheists argument though. I would argue that Christianity is backed up by thousands of years of history.

Evolution is a flawed aspect of science that fails to take into account divine power as a factor.

(No these aren't my views, I'm just playing devil's advocate to point out a fallacy in your argument)
Only the weak link is strong enough to break the chain.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
May 27 2011 05:51 GMT
#211
Good post N.geNuity.
Moderator<:3-/-<
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
May 27 2011 05:52 GMT
#212
On May 27 2011 14:42 mastergriggy wrote:
Alright I fail at quoting posts, sorry about that. But, I thought Teamliquid has a better understanding of logic, because everyone who has responded to me seems to love using logical fallacies. Tradition doesn't have anything to do if something is wrong or right. I've never said this.

The issue is that person a is pissed off over the schools decision (or maybe not even pissed off, insert whatever word you want), so person a asks them not to do that. Why can't anyone answer the question I've already raised, why is it okay for the kid to get his way and the school to be forced to do something differently? It in no way broke the law, or violated any of the previously established principles.

Edit:

Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:39 Jibba wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:36 mastergriggy wrote:
Maybe you can explain to me where in the bill of rights the school has to cancel the tradition because some guy opposes it? I mean god forbid it goes both ways.

It's an unconstitutional tradition. Law is the basis of the nation state, not religion and not tradition.


It's not unconstitutional. The school took it down for the sake of expediency, not because they were forced too.

I agree that people need to focus on the issue here. Is it really Unconstitutional? I dont know and Im not really feeling like looking up the whole "separation of church and state" argument at the moment. If it is unconstitutional, you would agree that the school should have stopped their school wide prayer practices, right mastergriggy? And if it is within the limits of hte constitution, then the school really didnt have to.
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
May 27 2011 05:52 GMT
#213
On May 27 2011 14:41 sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:33 Probulous wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:22 Zzoram wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:20 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:50 EmeraldSparks wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:48 aguy38 wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:47 EmeraldSparks wrote:
Everybody involved should probably be sent to a gulag.

including the kid?

Well, he can go if he wants to.

I heard atheists are big on gulags.


This post has very great depth and I admire it.

On May 27 2011 14:14 Zzoram wrote:
I'm sure all of America would be outraged if a public school with a sizable Muslim population held prayers to Allah but not Christian prayers during graduation. Christianity holds an undoubtedly priviliged place in America despite claims of religious equality and freedom.


Theres actually a practicing muslum in my class for graduation. Hes given a pass out of class at the proper times so he can pray in silence and during tests he just does it in class right there. The common consensus is "I don't give a shit" Its like America is Team liquid and the church is another poster. Its been around for so long and contributed so much (and done great sins as well) that the mods put him higher then the newer people.

But really Guys its the deep south and the kid was being a smart ass the way he simply "demanded" that the prayer be canceled. They still have chaplains in the military and they still pray in the sport house's before each game in the successful schools. I'm not saying anything about the situation was right but the Person who wrote this (lets be honest) blog is horribly biased and acts like the majority of america is Christian still. Which it frankly isn't.

TLDR: I don't want to study evolution and have to have that shuved down my throat to get a good grade in that class but I keep my mouth shut and get though it and don't call the ALCU.


The Muslim student is doing a personal prayer, that's fine. The school could've had a moment of silence for all the students to do their own personal prayers. When an individual representing the school does an official prayer on behalf of the school, that's where the violation of the constitutional right occurs.



Evolution is science, it's ok to teach science in science class.

Prayers are religion, it's not ok for the school to have an official prayer since government isn't allowed to favor one religion over another.



I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.


Except that you would probably look at its history, the way it was written. How events influenced its structure, the tone etc.

You would not get up and tell everyone to believe everything in the book.

As for evolution, there is evidence to back it up. The whole idea is for it to be examined and questioned. The foundation of science is questioning, hence if you do an science subject you are expected to question things. If you don't like it, don't go to science class.



You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it? What are you talking about its structure and tone? The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating. Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates?


Ok I gonna take this slow, because you are not making much sense....

You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it?


This is the content of the book in question. Ina n english class you would critically examine the content, look a the authors intentions, how are characters scripted etc. If you are trying to state that this is infact non-fiction. Then an english class is probably not the right place to discuss it. Even so you might look at how the information is structured to inform the audience.

The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating.


Evolutionary theory is quite simply survival of the fittest. A small random chance of mutation in a population creates the possibility for survival pressure to weed out the less successfull individuals. This creates a concentration of successfull traits leading to a change in the species. Not sure what that has to do with god, or carbon dating for that matter.

Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates?

I will admit, I am no expert on carbon dating. I do know that it is based on the decay on Carbon(14) which is relatively more abundant in biological tissue than the surrounding environment. It decays at a constant rate which is used to calculate approximately when the biological tissue was formed. As to how accurate the dating are, this would depend on the statistical validity of the time frame you are looking at and I cannot comment on this.

Beside it is irrlevant.

Good day.
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
maliceee
Profile Joined August 2010
United States634 Posts
May 27 2011 05:52 GMT
#214
On May 27 2011 14:41 IntoTheWow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:35 aguy38 wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:34 meegrean wrote:
If I were him, I would have just stayed silent. Punishment far outweighs the benefits... Is he trying to be a martyr or something?

If I were a betting man I would put money on it that he did it for attention and it just spiraled out of control to what it is now.


For attention? He contacted the principal in private. Someone leaked his name.


Do you honestly believe he told no one else?
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
May 27 2011 05:53 GMT
#215
On May 27 2011 14:49 Zzoram wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:43 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:36 KSMB wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.

What the hell? Please tell us you are trolling. Please. If not, that is so sad.



You think that we're all nothing but a freak accident on the uncompromisable scale of the universe? How sad. See what I did there?


How is that sad? It's wonderful. That we exist solely to worship our creator or be discarded into eternal torment is what's sad. What kind of father has children for the sole purpose of making them worship him? Ego much?


Please stay on topic.
Moderator<:3-/-<
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 05:56:01
May 27 2011 05:53 GMT
#216
honestly, I wouldn't object to a public prayer if the majority wanted it even if it wasn't my religion

doesn't really bother me or offend me in any way (I'm non-religious and even when I was younger and religious, that kinda stuff didn't necessarily offend me)

sounds like he was just being a "party pooper" and kinda deserves "some" degree of mocking as any "party pooper" deserves

I'm not religious at all but if I was a guest in someone's home and they wanted to pray, why wouldn't I, especially if I was an atheist.

what is going to happen, is the god of atheism going to strike me with a lightning bolt for, dare I say it, letting a public prayer occur when it isn't supposed to?

let the people have their fun, I wouldn't want someone objecting to me if I wanted to perform some sort of harmless short ritual in public
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 05:55:34
May 27 2011 05:54 GMT
#217
On May 27 2011 14:50 sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:43 Slaughter wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:41 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:33 Probulous wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:22 Zzoram wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:20 sermokala wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:50 EmeraldSparks wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:48 aguy38 wrote:
On May 27 2011 13:47 EmeraldSparks wrote:
Everybody involved should probably be sent to a gulag.

including the kid?

Well, he can go if he wants to.

I heard atheists are big on gulags.


This post has very great depth and I admire it.

On May 27 2011 14:14 Zzoram wrote:
I'm sure all of America would be outraged if a public school with a sizable Muslim population held prayers to Allah but not Christian prayers during graduation. Christianity holds an undoubtedly priviliged place in America despite claims of religious equality and freedom.


Theres actually a practicing muslum in my class for graduation. Hes given a pass out of class at the proper times so he can pray in silence and during tests he just does it in class right there. The common consensus is "I don't give a shit" Its like America is Team liquid and the church is another poster. Its been around for so long and contributed so much (and done great sins as well) that the mods put him higher then the newer people.

But really Guys its the deep south and the kid was being a smart ass the way he simply "demanded" that the prayer be canceled. They still have chaplains in the military and they still pray in the sport house's before each game in the successful schools. I'm not saying anything about the situation was right but the Person who wrote this (lets be honest) blog is horribly biased and acts like the majority of america is Christian still. Which it frankly isn't.

TLDR: I don't want to study evolution and have to have that shuved down my throat to get a good grade in that class but I keep my mouth shut and get though it and don't call the ALCU.


The Muslim student is doing a personal prayer, that's fine. The school could've had a moment of silence for all the students to do their own personal prayers. When an individual representing the school does an official prayer on behalf of the school, that's where the violation of the constitutional right occurs.



Evolution is science, it's ok to teach science in science class.

Prayers are religion, it's not ok for the school to have an official prayer since government isn't allowed to favor one religion over another.



I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.


Except that you would probably look at its history, the way it was written. How events influenced its structure, the tone etc.

You would not get up and tell everyone to believe everything in the book.

As for evolution, there is evidence to back it up. The whole idea is for it to be examined and questioned. The foundation of science is questioning, hence if you do an science subject you are expected to question things. If you don't like it, don't go to science class.



You mean It being written by a priest to explain how god created the universe and everything in it? What are you talking about its structure and tone? The modern theory of evolution isn't some single threat of thought about how animals developed into what we are today its been convoluted into a mess of Religious hate against god with assumptions like the big bang and carbon dating. Do you even realize how wildly inaccurate carbon dating is and how rock solid its used in "science" debates?


What? radiocarbon dating is pretty damn accurate lol. Religious hate from evolution theory today? The synthesis was merely a way to finally reconcile questions that Darwin could not answer because of the lack of knowledge of genetics.


Its far too late for me to point out the obvious response's about radio carbon dateing but I'll just link the wiki and be done with that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating go down to calibration if your lazy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/ And Yes I'm oursourceing my argument again If it was such a wildly accepted Theory then how come no one will allow debate other said "synthesis"



Im an anthropologist so im pretty damn familiar with radiocarbon dating and its uses and limitations and your confusing calibration with being "wildly inaccurate".

Now when it comes to the synthesis Darwin did not have access to the technology that allowed for DNA to be discovered and therefore no one had any real idea about the mechanisms of inheritance. Mendelian genetics and later the discovery of DNA changed that. Read some Ernst Mayr for information about the synthesis.
Never Knows Best.
EmeraldSparks
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1451 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-27 05:55:02
May 27 2011 05:54 GMT
#218
On May 27 2011 14:29 revy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:07 EmeraldSparks wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:05 travis wrote:
Who gives a shit if it's "extremely important" to his community?

lots of people

On May 27 2011 14:05 travis wrote:
There is something called separation of church and state.

overrated

On May 27 2011 14:05 travis wrote:
I guess you believe in mob rule?

no

On May 27 2011 14:05 travis wrote:
Slavery never should have been abolished?

yes, because we abolished slavery we cant put these people in gulags

On May 27 2011 14:05 travis wrote:
Mobs should be allowed to do whatever they want?

probably not


I disagree with the attacks against you they are unfounded, however, how can you justify calling separation of church and state overrated?

it was a pretty big deal way back when actual religious persecution was a problem

it's not so much a big deal in the modern united states

On May 27 2011 14:36 mastergriggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
yep you are the only one in teamliquid who is smart enough to give a measured response

gold star for you


I never said that, but thanks for proving my point.

whoops sorry i accidentally attributed the quote to the wrong person my bad

On May 27 2011 14:36 mastergriggy wrote:
Maybe you can explain to me where in the bill of rights the school has to cancel the tradition because some guy opposes it? I mean god forbid it goes both ways.

first amendment separation of church and state US supreme court 1962 engel v vitale

On May 27 2011 14:36 Supamang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:25 EmeraldSparks wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:24 Spicy Pepper wrote:
So as long as it's the religion of the majority, it's unwise for the minority to speak up about an unconstitutional practice according to some of you. Let's defend the 1st Amendment when it just suits us.

that's good advice

some people are so dumb that they shouldn't have first amendment rights

unfortunately the law doesn't work that way

Youre unbelievable man. If people followed that advice, slavery would never have been abolished, the civil rights act would never have gone through, etc. If people just decided to hide in their corners when a strong threat passed overhead, nothing would ever change for the better. It might be "smarter" to sit back, renounce your beliefs, and go along your merry way, but if no one fights for what they believe in, how do we progress as a society?

that's not true slavery is bad because the ownership of people is demeaning and inhuman

furthermore it is an economically inefficient use of labor

but i was speaking more generally about first amendment freedom of speech rights

like some people are really too dumb to be allowed to voice their opinions

it's not really relevant to this debate over religion though
But why?
rbx270j
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
May 27 2011 05:54 GMT
#219
On May 27 2011 14:52 maliceee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:41 IntoTheWow wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:35 aguy38 wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:34 meegrean wrote:
If I were him, I would have just stayed silent. Punishment far outweighs the benefits... Is he trying to be a martyr or something?

If I were a betting man I would put money on it that he did it for attention and it just spiraled out of control to what it is now.


For attention? He contacted the principal in private. Someone leaked his name.


Do you honestly believe he told no one else?


You think he bragged to his obviously hardcore religious parents, or what?
Popss
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden176 Posts
May 27 2011 05:54 GMT
#220
On May 27 2011 14:43 sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2011 14:36 KSMB wrote:
On May 27 2011 14:32 sermokala wrote:I find the theory of evolution as tought by the science elite to be personally offensive and strongly against my personal views. I find all the "science" behind it to be strongly painted against my religious views. Its the same as if the bible was made into the curriculum for English sense it was the first mass printed book.

What the hell? Please tell us you are trolling. Please. If not, that is so sad.



You think that we're all nothing but a freak accident on the uncompromisable scale of the universe? How sad. See what I did there?


Actually you sort of answered you're own question.

Considering the uncompromisable scale of the universe chances are there's gonna be a freak accident somewhere.
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