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I haven't met a stupid competitive Starcraft 2 player
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Compared to say, watching Television, it would definitely make a kid smarter imo.
But most of us are much older than that and at an age where improving your IQ is pretty much impossible. Now we can just absorb information and SC won't help you do that.
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On April 08 2011 09:49 UpHeaVaL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 09:15 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:00 ryanAnger wrote:
Yes, mostly because I believe it trains your brain to perform tasks and react faster. Intelligence to me is similar in a way to how we compare computers. Most modern computers have the same basic capabilities and the thing that makes some computers better than others is the speed in which they perform and process tasks.
It's fairly obvious that RTS games improve our "processing speed" in that as we get better at them, we are more capable of quickly determining what we need to do, how, and when to do it. Being smart is being able to solve problems, not the time it takes you to do so. So your analogy doesn't hold up very well. Unlike computers which operate on the same basic principles some people's brains are actually able to solve problems that you and I can't. Anyway, computergames in general have been shown to train reflexes. It obviously doesn't make you smarter, though. It might help you process information faster in general, and it definently trains your multitaskingability if you're playing the game at a serious level. Smartness is a relative term. We determine smartness by comparing with not so smart. Being smart is being able to SOLVE PROBLEMS QUICKLY. Or more specifically, quicker than the average population. A smart dog is one that can solve 3d obstruction puzzles...only because most dogs can't. Just because Jim down the street can solve them too, doesn't mean we consider him to be smart. Again, it's relative.
Yes, IQ (problemsolving) is relative, but it's not about the speed with which you solve problems but rather the ability to do so. Speed is only a secondary indicator of being smart, and a non important one.
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On April 08 2011 16:11 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 09:49 UpHeaVaL wrote:On April 08 2011 09:15 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:00 ryanAnger wrote:
Yes, mostly because I believe it trains your brain to perform tasks and react faster. Intelligence to me is similar in a way to how we compare computers. Most modern computers have the same basic capabilities and the thing that makes some computers better than others is the speed in which they perform and process tasks.
It's fairly obvious that RTS games improve our "processing speed" in that as we get better at them, we are more capable of quickly determining what we need to do, how, and when to do it. Being smart is being able to solve problems, not the time it takes you to do so. So your analogy doesn't hold up very well. Unlike computers which operate on the same basic principles some people's brains are actually able to solve problems that you and I can't. Anyway, computergames in general have been shown to train reflexes. It obviously doesn't make you smarter, though. It might help you process information faster in general, and it definently trains your multitaskingability if you're playing the game at a serious level. Smartness is a relative term. We determine smartness by comparing with not so smart. Being smart is being able to SOLVE PROBLEMS QUICKLY. Or more specifically, quicker than the average population. A smart dog is one that can solve 3d obstruction puzzles...only because most dogs can't. Just because Jim down the street can solve them too, doesn't mean we consider him to be smart. Again, it's relative. Yes, IQ (problemsolving) is relative, but it's not about the speed with which you solve problems but rather the ability to do so. Speed is only a secondary indicator of being smart, and a non important one.
Speed is definitely a component. If two people took the same maths test and were told to aim to get all answers correct in the smallest possible time, then the person who completes it faster is smarter (perhaps not overall, but in that instance). Or would you tell me they're both equally intelligent?
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I'm sure it helps keep your mind exercising. Pretty much how chess can help keep somebody sharp... imo. maybe not smarter..but efficient perhaps?
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On April 08 2011 16:19 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 16:11 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:49 UpHeaVaL wrote:On April 08 2011 09:15 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:00 ryanAnger wrote:
Yes, mostly because I believe it trains your brain to perform tasks and react faster. Intelligence to me is similar in a way to how we compare computers. Most modern computers have the same basic capabilities and the thing that makes some computers better than others is the speed in which they perform and process tasks.
It's fairly obvious that RTS games improve our "processing speed" in that as we get better at them, we are more capable of quickly determining what we need to do, how, and when to do it. Being smart is being able to solve problems, not the time it takes you to do so. So your analogy doesn't hold up very well. Unlike computers which operate on the same basic principles some people's brains are actually able to solve problems that you and I can't. Anyway, computergames in general have been shown to train reflexes. It obviously doesn't make you smarter, though. It might help you process information faster in general, and it definently trains your multitaskingability if you're playing the game at a serious level. Smartness is a relative term. We determine smartness by comparing with not so smart. Being smart is being able to SOLVE PROBLEMS QUICKLY. Or more specifically, quicker than the average population. A smart dog is one that can solve 3d obstruction puzzles...only because most dogs can't. Just because Jim down the street can solve them too, doesn't mean we consider him to be smart. Again, it's relative. Yes, IQ (problemsolving) is relative, but it's not about the speed with which you solve problems but rather the ability to do so. Speed is only a secondary indicator of being smart, and a non important one. Speed is definitely a component. If two people took the same maths test and were told to aim to get all answers correct in the smallest possible time, then the person who completes it faster is smarter (perhaps not overall, but in that instance). Or would you tell me they're both equally intelligent?
Speed is a component in a standard WAIS IQ test, and counts towards IQ. Basically you need to copy information as fast as possible for 2 minutes, no problem solving included. WAIS tests are more comprehensive than the matrices usually seen online, but basically you will learn the answers the first time so it's not suitable for mensa etc.
Anyway, IQ is definitely relative but it is also a good predictor for performance, as well as a good practical tool used to evaluate for example brain damage and mental retardation. If a topic is about becoming smarter I think IQ is the best indicator we have for that variable even though it's abstract and relative.
Higher IQ with starcraft? I was thinking about it when I was reading up on IQ, but I kind of doubt it. Any activity that's a challenge would basically be a good thing not just for IQ but for the brain as a whole. But trying to rank order activities seem really hard apart from saying that exposing oneself to new concepts and challenging activities would be better than being inactive all day long, at least in moderation and with rest included. And I think starcraft can be pretty challenging.
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i think starcraft is more difficult to play than chess. I know this is a hard statement, but besides the strategy aspect there are also mechanics and of course the speed important to play sc at a higher level than maybe gold.
if my parents would get that, they would be so proud if i would practice a more intelligent game than chess for such a long time lol
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It doesn't make you smarter but it definitely changes the way you think about problems, issues and situations. Has changed mine for sure.
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short answer: yes they do
long one: Well I dont know everything about this but I know that broccoli makes you pretty awesome in games. Ye thank you Athene
no really bad joke sorry about that.
Ok seriously now:
we use for decision making process our front part of the brain and it is well known that games are excellent way how to improve it (mainly RTS. But I think that QL/CS or WoW are great too)
I saw a video about this on youtube where they scanned Moons, Skies and Lyns brain and then some casual players brain and it was so cool to see that Pro gamers are using completely different parts of the brain.
Also they took semen from Sky or Moon and saved it for some superhuman
+ Show Spoiler +IM NOT TROLLING THE LAST PART, its on youtube but i cant find it now 
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Well i dont really know what you mean by "smarter". If you mean IQ then probably no.
As far as i'm concerned, playing starcraft makes you good at starcraft. (might also make you faster at typing and such), but i dont believe it improves your multitasking or problem solving.
The reason that a lot of people might think that playing starcraft makes you smarter is because a lot of people who play starcraft are just smart 
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On April 08 2011 08:52 kurse3 wrote:
I have a short, but very open ended question to ask, which will hopefully produce a good discussion. I use the term 'smart' because it is ambiguous, and I want to see how people interpret my question.
Do RTS games make you smarter?
I'm tending to think they do in a variety of ways, however I'm hoping that it doesn't just make you smarter at RTS games, but in general.
Let's use Starcraft 2.
The examples in parentheses are just examples.
- Decision making (Will the decision to attack/back off/work on macro be worth it?)
- Forward thinking (Based on 'x' set of circumstances what do I need to prepare for?)
- Deductive reasoning (Based on the information that I have attained, can I deduce that he will be going for 'x' build?.)
- Inductive reasoning (I've just scouted 4 Warpgates, I should expect a 4gate push very soon.)
I don't want to add anymore. I would rather you interpret what I asked for yourself.
I go to my neighbor's house. See 3 warpgates. Wait a second.....
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On April 08 2011 16:19 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 16:11 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:49 UpHeaVaL wrote:On April 08 2011 09:15 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:00 ryanAnger wrote:
Yes, mostly because I believe it trains your brain to perform tasks and react faster. Intelligence to me is similar in a way to how we compare computers. Most modern computers have the same basic capabilities and the thing that makes some computers better than others is the speed in which they perform and process tasks.
It's fairly obvious that RTS games improve our "processing speed" in that as we get better at them, we are more capable of quickly determining what we need to do, how, and when to do it. Being smart is being able to solve problems, not the time it takes you to do so. So your analogy doesn't hold up very well. Unlike computers which operate on the same basic principles some people's brains are actually able to solve problems that you and I can't. Anyway, computergames in general have been shown to train reflexes. It obviously doesn't make you smarter, though. It might help you process information faster in general, and it definently trains your multitaskingability if you're playing the game at a serious level. Smartness is a relative term. We determine smartness by comparing with not so smart. Being smart is being able to SOLVE PROBLEMS QUICKLY. Or more specifically, quicker than the average population. A smart dog is one that can solve 3d obstruction puzzles...only because most dogs can't. Just because Jim down the street can solve them too, doesn't mean we consider him to be smart. Again, it's relative. Yes, IQ (problemsolving) is relative, but it's not about the speed with which you solve problems but rather the ability to do so. Speed is only a secondary indicator of being smart, and a non important one. Speed is definitely a component. If two people took the same maths test and were told to aim to get all answers correct in the smallest possible time, then the person who completes it faster is smarter (perhaps not overall, but in that instance). Or would you tell me they're both equally intelligent?
I think the word "smarter" doesn't really mean anything. Does it just mean "better"?
In that instance the faster person is better at doing math in short periods of time. They are smarter at doing math in short periods of time. In that instance the winner may not even be better at math overall, just at doing math quickly.
I would say no conclusions about their intelligence can be made from that situation, except that they are better at doing those particular math problems more quickly than the other person.
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On April 09 2011 05:25 Rotodyne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 16:19 Swede wrote:On April 08 2011 16:11 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:49 UpHeaVaL wrote:On April 08 2011 09:15 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:00 ryanAnger wrote:
Yes, mostly because I believe it trains your brain to perform tasks and react faster. Intelligence to me is similar in a way to how we compare computers. Most modern computers have the same basic capabilities and the thing that makes some computers better than others is the speed in which they perform and process tasks.
It's fairly obvious that RTS games improve our "processing speed" in that as we get better at them, we are more capable of quickly determining what we need to do, how, and when to do it. Being smart is being able to solve problems, not the time it takes you to do so. So your analogy doesn't hold up very well. Unlike computers which operate on the same basic principles some people's brains are actually able to solve problems that you and I can't. Anyway, computergames in general have been shown to train reflexes. It obviously doesn't make you smarter, though. It might help you process information faster in general, and it definently trains your multitaskingability if you're playing the game at a serious level. Smartness is a relative term. We determine smartness by comparing with not so smart. Being smart is being able to SOLVE PROBLEMS QUICKLY. Or more specifically, quicker than the average population. A smart dog is one that can solve 3d obstruction puzzles...only because most dogs can't. Just because Jim down the street can solve them too, doesn't mean we consider him to be smart. Again, it's relative. Yes, IQ (problemsolving) is relative, but it's not about the speed with which you solve problems but rather the ability to do so. Speed is only a secondary indicator of being smart, and a non important one. Speed is definitely a component. If two people took the same maths test and were told to aim to get all answers correct in the smallest possible time, then the person who completes it faster is smarter (perhaps not overall, but in that instance). Or would you tell me they're both equally intelligent? I think the word "smarter" doesn't really mean anything. Does it just mean "better"? In that instance the faster person is better at doing math in short periods of time. They are smarter at doing math in short periods of time. In that instance the winner may not even be better at math overall, just at doing math quickly. I would say no conclusions about their intelligence can be made from that situation, except that they are better at doing those particular math problems more quickly than the other person.
Hence "(perhaps not overall, but in that instance)".
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imho its rather that rts games appeal to the smarter guys.... you rarely see the typical fps machos play an rts, while the typical nerd or smart guy is quite overrepresented among the tl user base.
i dont think playing sc makes you significantly smarter. maybe some 2-4 IQ points at most...
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Starcraft has taught me how to focus on one thing while still able to multi task.
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On April 09 2011 09:18 Swede wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 05:25 Rotodyne wrote:On April 08 2011 16:19 Swede wrote:On April 08 2011 16:11 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:49 UpHeaVaL wrote:On April 08 2011 09:15 HellRoxYa wrote:On April 08 2011 09:00 ryanAnger wrote:
Yes, mostly because I believe it trains your brain to perform tasks and react faster. Intelligence to me is similar in a way to how we compare computers. Most modern computers have the same basic capabilities and the thing that makes some computers better than others is the speed in which they perform and process tasks.
It's fairly obvious that RTS games improve our "processing speed" in that as we get better at them, we are more capable of quickly determining what we need to do, how, and when to do it. Being smart is being able to solve problems, not the time it takes you to do so. So your analogy doesn't hold up very well. Unlike computers which operate on the same basic principles some people's brains are actually able to solve problems that you and I can't. Anyway, computergames in general have been shown to train reflexes. It obviously doesn't make you smarter, though. It might help you process information faster in general, and it definently trains your multitaskingability if you're playing the game at a serious level. Smartness is a relative term. We determine smartness by comparing with not so smart. Being smart is being able to SOLVE PROBLEMS QUICKLY. Or more specifically, quicker than the average population. A smart dog is one that can solve 3d obstruction puzzles...only because most dogs can't. Just because Jim down the street can solve them too, doesn't mean we consider him to be smart. Again, it's relative. Yes, IQ (problemsolving) is relative, but it's not about the speed with which you solve problems but rather the ability to do so. Speed is only a secondary indicator of being smart, and a non important one. Speed is definitely a component. If two people took the same maths test and were told to aim to get all answers correct in the smallest possible time, then the person who completes it faster is smarter (perhaps not overall, but in that instance). Or would you tell me they're both equally intelligent? I think the word "smarter" doesn't really mean anything. Does it just mean "better"? In that instance the faster person is better at doing math in short periods of time. They are smarter at doing math in short periods of time. In that instance the winner may not even be better at math overall, just at doing math quickly. I would say no conclusions about their intelligence can be made from that situation, except that they are better at doing those particular math problems more quickly than the other person. Hence "(perhaps not overall, but in that instance)".
I really was asking the definition of "smarter", but I just realized it's defined in the dictionary : D
a. Characterized by sharp quick thought
perfectly fits your situation so my post was useless : [
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No.
If you're smart you can get better at RTS, it doesn't work the other way around.
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I've noticed that after playing alot of sc2 I some how think better and faster when studying, and also when I play other games after playing a lot of sc2, I play those games way better than usual. And when I watch TV shows or movies it's the complete opposite, I suck at everything.
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No one genre of gaming is going to "make you smarter". I do feel though that there is a value in learning what it means to be competitive and what it means to try to find solutions to problems and then testing your solutions against live thinking people who are also trying to find the same solutions. This is not exclusive to RTS games.
RTS games are not going to attract smarter people than FPS games, both games types are just going to attract the kind of person that wants to overcome tough challenges. Smart people will be attracted to competitive environments because it's the only way to be challenged and grow whether that be through the medium of physical sports, video games or intellectual pursuits. I think I even struggle with the idea of one person just being born smarter than another and feel that there is more to be gained with hard work over natural talent but I think there is a lot of examples of both contributing to success in a competition.
I think one thing that is abundantly clear is that any competitive medium builds confidence, whether that is justified or not. People who are good at their chosen hobby or profession certainly think that whatever they have chosen to pursue ultimately makes them a better person or gives rise to the thinking that whatever it is they do is a more noble pursuit over the other options out there.
In actuality being part of a collaborative community of passionate people regardless of the chosen method of spending their free time is ultimately what taught them the most about themselves and their fellow human beings. It's what allows an individual to gain a glimpse of oneself at the pinnacle of their potential.
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I have to say Yes. Playing RTS games makes you smarter than if you played Facebook games instead
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EPT
