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Libyan Uprising - Page 46

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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated.
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 03:50:39
March 18 2011 03:50 GMT
#901
On March 18 2011 12:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 12:23 Soap wrote:
On March 18 2011 11:59 sushiman wrote:
On March 18 2011 11:26 Asshat wrote:
On March 18 2011 11:21 Alou wrote:
Did India and Brazil give reasons for abstaining? Russia and China's decision to abstain makes a lot of sense based on how they generally vote. Not to sure why India and Brazil abstained though.


Just like Germany, they are against the use of force. On another note, the moment it came to my notice that Libya was a major supply of oil I knew this was going to happen, there's no chance the US military intervention will be limited to just a "no flight zone" for very long.

India and Brazil might also have reasons similar to China, namely not supporting anti-governmental forces in another country when they have restless populations of their own. Brazil is ripe with poverty and criminality, but especially India have reasons to thread carefully in this matter, since they long have had trouble with their minorities, especially muslim-hindu tension, as well as communist insurgents.


Not really. There's plenty of gang activity, drug dealing and illegal gambling in Brazil but no political motivation, actually the ruling party is widely approved.

It's more because brazilian diplomacy is obsessed with independence, and since Libya is far away and our military assets are laughable, sounds better to be rebellious than an irrelevant ally.


Doesn't Brazil have the only Carrier in South America... Making it pretty much the powerhouse of South America?


It's more than 50 years old and only operates ground attack aircraft (A-4 Skyhawks) that are even older. If we are to be considered a powerhouse would be because of numbers and size, but those can't be brought abroad.
BeJe77
Profile Joined April 2006
United States377 Posts
March 18 2011 04:53 GMT
#902
Well this will be interesting, the U.N. has basically just opened up a whole can of worms.

Support Libya, now will they support Bahrain....and who ever rises up next.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
March 18 2011 04:54 GMT
#903
On March 18 2011 13:53 BeJe77 wrote:
Well this will be interesting, the U.N. has basically just opened up a whole can of worms.

Support Libya, now will they support Bahrain....and who ever rises up next.

The US will likely veto any such action.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
BeJe77
Profile Joined April 2006
United States377 Posts
March 18 2011 05:04 GMT
#904
On March 18 2011 13:54 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 13:53 BeJe77 wrote:
Well this will be interesting, the U.N. has basically just opened up a whole can of worms.

Support Libya, now will they support Bahrain....and who ever rises up next.

The US will likely veto any such action.


Don't think they will involve themselves into any of the conflicts
Kaneh
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada737 Posts
March 18 2011 05:05 GMT
#905
Libya is... a major supplier of oil to Europe. part of the reason Italy is very much for this, even opening airfields for UN use, and why there is so little resistance to UN intervention. dictator or not, no-one really cared until the country destabilized.

There is no can of worms, just regular dirty politics. Bahrain is unimportant in the grand scheme of things because... it actually doesn't matter to any of the major powers. Rather keep the Saudis happier with you then to support Bahrain for absolutely no gain.
Too_MuchZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Finland2818 Posts
March 18 2011 05:20 GMT
#906
I guess Brazil and India did same thing as Russia and China because they all belong to BRIC group.
Robstickle
Profile Joined April 2010
Great Britain406 Posts
March 18 2011 06:59 GMT
#907
On March 18 2011 11:05 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2011 10:46 Kukaracha wrote:
I don't get people bitching about this. So it's all or nothing? Wow, what a subtle approach my dear friends!
I hope your chair is comfy.

I'm afraid that people are bitching about the hypocrisy of propping up friendly repressive regimes, and condemning hostile repressive regimes.


Frankly I'd rather the UN did some good sometimes for the wrong reasons and was generally a hypocrite than if they never did any good at all.

A truly altruistic UN is never going to happen.
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
March 18 2011 07:45 GMT
#908
On March 18 2011 14:05 Kaneh wrote:
Libya is... a major supplier of oil to Europe. part of the reason Italy is very much for this, even opening airfields for UN use, and why there is so little resistance to UN intervention. dictator or not, no-one really cared until the country destabilized.

There is no can of worms, just regular dirty politics. Bahrain is unimportant in the grand scheme of things because... it actually doesn't matter to any of the major powers. Rather keep the Saudis happier with you then to support Bahrain for absolutely no gain.


Oke so because Libya is crucial to EU oil (not really but at 1.7 million barrels per day let's go with it) they support a no-fly zone wich brings the country to a stalemate and prevents a dictator that is eager to sell them oil from winning.

Not only do they bring the country to a stalemate but they also decide to give a big middlefinger to the dictator of this country, rather then doing nothing, letting him win, ending the uprising, continueing the supply of oil.


I mean honestly, start thinking about it. There is no way in hell that this is about oil...
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 18 2011 08:20 GMT
#909
Poland offers logistical support, rules out military role in Libya: http://goo.gl/qBRQH


Norway will also join the international military action in Libya, http://goo.gl/2XE9I


Seems there was an attempt by some Gaddafi loyalists to create mischief in Benghazi last night, but they were stopped. #Libya


Once again for whoever missed it: Demonstrations in Tripoli, Azawiya, and Zwara; but esp. in Tripoli, after the UN vote. #Libya
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
SpiffD
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1264 Posts
March 18 2011 08:29 GMT
#910
According to Danish newspaper Politiken, the French government has announced that the attack on Libya will commence in a few hours.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 08:30:24
March 18 2011 08:29 GMT
#911
Finnish media is saying that the military actions will start in 2 hours by France (atleast)?


E: So Finnish media is not alone..
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 18 2011 08:35 GMT
#912
Heavy shelling in Misurata by Gaddafi forces.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
SwiftSpear
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada355 Posts
March 18 2011 09:05 GMT
#913
On March 18 2011 17:29 SpiffD wrote:
According to Danish newspaper Politiken, the French government has announced that the attack on Libya will commence in a few hours.

And the surrender 24 hours later (sorry, I had to)
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 09:09:58
March 18 2011 09:08 GMT
#914
So basically the Rebels have to hold for at least 48 hrs before the UK and U.S. will be ready but no word on when the French will start which could begin in a few hours... Denmark still has to wait for Parliamentary decisions.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
dafunk
Profile Joined January 2009
France521 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 09:38:19
March 18 2011 09:27 GMT
#915
ONU Vote :
For : France, UK, Lebanon, USA, South Africa, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Colombia, Portugal, Nigeria, Gabon

Didn't vote : China, Russia, Brazil, Germany and India

The intervention will be led by UK, USA and France with the help of Danemark (parliamentary vote still going on), Canada and Norway (plus some arab countries like Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Egypt and some help from Poland).

Like expected China and Russia arnt supporting it (and surprisingly Germany).

Starting in a few hours.
Mofisto
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom585 Posts
March 18 2011 09:38 GMT
#916
On March 18 2011 18:08 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
So basically the Rebels have to hold for at least 48 hrs before the UK and U.S. will be ready but no word on when the French will start which could begin in a few hours... Denmark still has to wait for Parliamentary decisions.


Uk papers are saying that bombing should commence in the next few hours. I still think we've left it too late though. I hope I'm wrong.

On another note, the moment it came to my notice that Libya was a major supply of oil I knew this was going to happen


Good job regurgitating the whole oil nonsense mate. Im not going to derail the thread to explain it to you, but the oil debate was laid to rest years ago, except with the most ardent anti-americans.
"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you."
dafunk
Profile Joined January 2009
France521 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 09:54:05
March 18 2011 09:48 GMT
#917
I still do think its an oil problematic. Not as bad as what Americans did in Irak, attacking a country based on false accusations (that every governement knew of, thats why France did refuse to engage in this war).
If Khadafi take control of Libya again, European countries would be obliged to take some actions like an embargo (because of peoples opinion), that would have affected our oil importations and prices. Therefore we have to prevent Khadafi from doing it by attacking or at least force him to negociate.

It's just "realpolitik" with some sort of "moral" to back up our actions. We have to not be naive about these kind of operations.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 09:54:07
March 18 2011 09:53 GMT
#918
Cameron to address Parliament at 1100 GMT...
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
March 18 2011 09:56 GMT
#919
This is horrible news. The world is going into a mess again.

Please, next time you see terrorist attacks in europe don't fucking ask yourselves why. This is why. Everyone is going to yell, omg innocent people dieing, you think the war on libya won't kill innocents? If you do think so you're out of your minds.

Sad day for the world, just as sad as the day we turned Iraq into a mess.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 10:21:07
March 18 2011 09:59 GMT
#920
On March 18 2011 17:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Heavy shelling in Misurata by Gaddafi forces.


Oh no they DIDN'T!

User was warned for this post


Edit:
Sorry bout that, what I was going at is that it is surprising to see the regime actually doing offensive acts of that magnitude today when they know what the reaction is going to be. Artillery pieces and tanks are prime targets for air power.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
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