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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On March 06 2011 17:40 Souma wrote: Wow, what? So they're technically still supporting Gadaffi by buying oil from those fields? I doubt it, it's more likely just pragmatism. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On March 06 2011 09:34 Wombatsavior wrote: I love stealth blue so much for his efforts, I friggin' love the constant status updates (in multiple threads nonetheless.) I am a man that loves information and knowing what is happening on a very detailed level, and although I have many sites to go to, some I won't even mention for harassment sake, These updates are a godsend. Keep up the good work, you are deeply appreciated man! You can also have daily and immediatly updated reports on websites such as The Guardian or the Times, I think. | ||
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Alshahin
56 Posts
It would be the proper strategy. Yet the rebels believe they are winning extremely easy with little resistance, it seems. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
And don't forget that the rebels aren't just a buch of peasants with forks and shovels, but members of the previous government and military. They know what's in Khadaffi's hands. | ||
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Alshahin
56 Posts
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
Al Jazeera blog 2:00pm Al Jazeera's correspondent in Ras Lanuf tells us that a large number of Libyan military figures have switched sides and have joined the armed opposition groups. Situation in Ras Lanuf In the west of Libya, anti-government protesters claim to have taken full control of the oil port of Ras Lanuf. Some government soldiers in the strategic town have reportedly switched sides, and protesters say they are on the move towards Sirte, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's hometown. Al Jazeera's Hoda-Abdel Hamid reports from the town. Timestamp: 8:40pm A defected army officer teaches the use of an anti-aircraft gun to civilians who have volunteered to join the rebel army in Benghazi February 27, 2011. The rebel army is preparing to fight Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces in Tripoli if necessary, an official in the rebel army said. Via Reuters. French newspaper Le Monde, about Zaouïa: Zaouïa en état de siège. Au moins sept personnes ont été tuées et des dizaines d'autres blessées dans une offensive samedi de forces à la solde du régime de Mouammar Kadhafi sur la ville de Zaouïa indiquent une source médicale et un témoin. "Il y a eu au moins sept morts dans l'offensive lancée ce matin par deux bataillons sur la ville. Les blessés se comptent par dizaines", indiqué à l'AFP un médecin d'un hôpital de la ville, s'exprimant sous couvert de l'anonymat. "C'est horrible ce qui s'est passé ce matin dans la ville. Les mercenaires tiraient sur tous ceux qui osaient sortir de chez eux, y compris les enfants", a-t-il dit. "Nous manquons de tout dans les hôpitaux. Nous avons besoin d'aide", a-t-il ajouté. He's roughly saying that many are wounded and 7 dead, that hospitals are overcrowded and they need help. L'Express, a french newspaper too: Omar Hariri, l'un des officiers qui avaient participé au coup d'Etat de Mouammar Kadhafi en 1969 avant d'être emprisonné, a été nommé chef des affaires militaires. Ali Essaoui, ancien ambassadeur en Inde qui a démissionné le mois dernier, a été chargé des Affaires étrangères. Mahmoud Djebril, qui a participé avec un groupe d'intellectuels, avant la révolte, au projet "Vision libyenne" d'établissement d'un Etat démocratique, a été nommé chef de ce comité de crise. It basically names some members of the libyan national Council who were high ranked in the military or in the previous government. I'd like to see your sources if you think all of this is false. | ||
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Alshahin
56 Posts
But besides that, I don't see what your point is, at all. Gaddafi supposedly has 10,000 highly trained elite soldiers. Those aren't fighting yet of all we have seen so far. Remember that the Libyan army is not a professional army. The rebels that are on the attack right now don't have tanks. They don't have organization. All people you see speak all speak for themselves. They don't have a military council. Citizens and former soldiers just rush forward with their AKs in pickup trucks. They will be soft as butter when they meet resistance. You don't realize how much damage trained soldiers can do. The Bravo Two Zero eight men team killed like 250 Iraqis. When thousands of highly trained Gaddafi soldiers are up against much larger numbers of civilians with guns, the death toll will be very high. Not 7. As far as we know Gaddafi's forces are still in Tripoli and Sirte and all fighting so far has been minor. Either these Gaddafi forces have already evaporated, or they are not being used. People have been talking for days about the former military attacking Sirte and moving towards Tripoli. We haven't seen that at all and all military experts that have commented have recommended against it. So we just see a group of hundred civilians who never shot a gun touring around the desert, open to air attacks. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
1) I provided sources, you didn't. I will disregard everything you say that isn't backed up by some sort of proof. You're mainly assuming things even though you have no idea what you're talking about. 2) The sources I provided contradict what you're saying. No military council? There IS a national council like I said. Rebel troops are coordinated. Local resistance isn't. 3) Rebel troops (or actually all troops) are avoiding the desert. Learn about Libyan geography. This is why some cities near the coast are such keypoints. 4) Minor fighting? A massive counter-attacked was launched today but only succeeded in stopping the rebel's progression. Misrata is still in their hands, they only left Ben Jawas but rebels are gathering forces to attack again. 5) They don't have organization? Are you kidding me? Are you some kind of xenophobic prick who thinks that it's a bunch of retards fighting with rocks? How are they reinforcing, then? How did they obtain AA equipment? How did they succeed to successfully repell tank attacks (35 of them yesterday)? How come since here are officers and soldiers in the rebel forces? 6) Some of Ghadaffi's forces evaporated, indeed. A whole batallion of those "elite troops" in fact, at the very beginning of the conflict. There are some serious concerns about their training, too, since they did loose many times against unprepared and uncoordinated crowds, where local resistance occurred. What you're saying is that Ghadaffi is secretly hiding his elite troops in Tripoli? Why would he give up important military bases and ressources if he has the means to control a bigger territory? Don't forget that many soliders left, especially among the air forces it seems - which has been underused and could be heavily crippled if an exclusion zone is declared. Oh, and I did summarize those french articles, I justs didn't translate them word by word. Read more. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Hospitals in Tripoli received many dead & wounded Gaddafi soldiers after the heavy gunfire this morning; no further details yet. #Libya Live call from Misurata on AJA: Latest figure, 93 injured, at least 20 are critical. #Libya Live call from Misurata on AJA: Among the #Gaddafi cars today firing on civilians was an ambulance with Tripoli plates. #Libya | ||
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Alshahin
56 Posts
First off I am assuming things and making a guess based on my opinion. No one fucking knows what is going on. Except you of course. I have one source. My own opinion. You don't provide any sources for anything relevant. Just because they say they formed a national council doesn't mean anything. You really believe those people you claim you saw are under orders coming from their national council? Avoiding the desert? Haha. You are basically drawing at straws here. I so hate the attitude of 99% of the people on TL. Lybia is a fucking desert and the people I saw were in a desert. Be it 10 meters of 12 meters away from the coast. I am a xenophobic prick? Pretty sure that is bannable. The country is in chaos. Nothing to do with genes. WTF, Again, attacking and defending are two different things. Libya has like 2000 tanks. Why don't we see 1000 tanks driving towards Sirte? Gaddafi is secretly hiding his elite troops? WTF. No, I am saying maybe he is using the proper military strategy one would use when a small number of crack troops have to fight a large number of very low quality soldiers. I don't read posts that have French in them. It's offensive and against the 10 commandments of this site. Drawing out the most enthusiastic of the armed civilians using probe attacks that tactically retreat and then ambushing them near Sirte doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not like the rebels are now en masse attacking Sirte. They are fighting small battles all over the counties and people are concerned with defending, handling the wounded, organizing their local societies, already celebrating victory, etc. User was warned for this post | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
This isn't. A city isn't a desert, a highway isn't a desert. Xenophobia is "fear of the stranger" (and thus ignorance), it has nothing to do with genes indeed. I would like to bounce on your statement that you're basing yourself on your opinion: this is ignorance, and I'm talking to anyone reading this thread. This is the worse attitude one can have towards information, especially regarding the internet. If you want to debate something, you need to prove what you're saying, to show that you're not randomly stating imaginary things. You need to prove that you're not only voicing an opinion but actually debating facts. This is very important. About those 2000+ tanks... We captured 3 APCs, two tanks and one pick-up after an hour and a half of fighting," Youssef Shagan, the rebel force spokesman in the town, 50 km (30 miles) west of the capital, told Reuters after the first battle. SourceRebel forces are trying to capture vehicles to strengten their positions. Add the fact that tanks need drivers (and many left the army) adds to that. Also, if you take a look at this map: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/feb/27/libya-tripoli-unrest-gaddafi-map You'll see that all military bases on the east are under rebel control. The possibility of Ghadaffi being able to deploy his ground forces to their full extent is very unlikely. Tank use is also very uneffective in guerilla warfare. And about those french posts, I just thought that having the original quote was better; it's not a reason to not reading it since I did provide a brief translation. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6632 Posts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12660163 My brother is in the military and at the moment is on standby to go into Libya or a number of other North African/Middle Eastern countries at any moment. Stuff could get crazier yet. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5277 Posts
+10 to {CC}StealthBlue for updates | ||
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Alshahin
56 Posts
You are telling people they can't have an opinion on the internet? WTF You are a malicious idiot. And that's my opinion. Don't ask me to prove that until you prove I am xenophobic and ignorant. It seems I have more information you have so far. Also, you have been wrong several times, including about deserts. Libya is 99% desert. I have the source right now and it is very respected. It takes just 10 seconds to google. But I won't spoon feed it you. You aren't worthy. I don't care if you are wrong. As for all the tanks and support they have, who says those are on the attack right now? We don't know much but we do know the rebels aren't executing a unified and well organized operation towards Tripoli. Groups of people are acting on their own accords. Yes, there are tanks. But people attack without them. If they think their enemy is routed they will be very far away from all these tanks in those bases near Benghazi. We also know for a fact that those senior military people on the national council have so far only said that they can attack Sirte, but that they said they won't just yet. Just wait a few days and see if my guess and speculation is true or not. Also, I suggest you turn off Al Jazeera because 98% of what they say is speculation and opinion. Not fact with sources and thorough research. Have a nice time. And next time you are going to enter a discussion about military tactics, at least know something. Also, next time when someone presents to you information that seem to be a revelation, don't feel personally insulted and go for an all out personal attack. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On March 07 2011 05:47 Alshahin wrote: Kukaracha, your attitude is the worst one you can have towards other people. You are telling people they can't have an opinion on the internet? His stance is more along the lines of: you're welcome to have an opinion, but if you're going to share it and attempt to sway others you had better use sources of information to help prove your point, otherwise your opinion is meaningless. Merely stating, "It's my opinion" as a defense to a statement doesn't make for an informed or interesting discussion. Also: "Watch Al Jazeera instead of what you have been watching so far. What you say makes no sense." "Also, I suggest you turn off Al Jazeera" Very enlightening. | ||
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Alshahin
56 Posts
Read the posts, for god's sake. As for the very lowly and childish quoting of my opposite statements, it is because he is a paradox. He said he doesn't want to be informed about Libya while I thought he wanted to be more informed. I was wrong. So he has to turn off Al Jazeera or admit to lying and apologize. He never asked why I hold my fear or suggest that there is reasons to believe my fear isn't justified. He just went on an ego driven childish rampage, to his own defeat. | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On March 07 2011 05:47 Alshahin wrote: You are telling people they can't have an opinion on the internet? WTF You are a malicious idiot. And that's my opinion. Don't ask me to prove that until you prove I am xenophobic and ignorant. It seems I have more information you have so far. Also, you have been wrong several times, including about deserts. He never said you weren't entitled to an opinion. Unlike you, though, he's not stating opinions in this thread but facts. And however many times you say it isn't so, he did provide sources for what he said. Good ones. How about you stop posting in this thread instead of embarassing yourself further? Or just take it to PM. You're giving my a headache. Thanks. | ||
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