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Libyan Uprising - Page 22

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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated.
Alshahin
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
56 Posts
March 06 2011 21:22 GMT
#421
Don't be a liar.

Nothing he said has anything to do with Gaddafi's tactics or with the probability of rebel forces rushing forward too fast.

And yes, he did say I can't have opinions. I can only make posts only with facts and only if they have sources in them.
And he can just say a desert is no longer a desert if you build a road in it. And he posts French and attacks people personally.

I suggest he apologizes for shitting on this thread. I don't want his PMs.
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-06 21:33:08
March 06 2011 21:29 GMT
#422
I have never said people can't have an opinion, read again. What I am saying is that voicing an opinion (other than religious) without backing it up with data is worthless. It's being the drunk redneck at the bar saying that jews stole his money - he's poor and they're rich, so he's saying they stole his money. But it's a worthless statement because that's only "his opinion" (and a silly one on top of that).

You're telling me that you have more info, and that I've been wrong several times, but once again, nothing to back it up! This is insane, how can we reach such illogic statements? We're polluting this thread with a silly debate and you don't even bother with providing concrete information! Anyone who has gone to college or university MUST understand that any statement needs arguments!

Libyan troops do not fight in the desert, as they fight in cities for the most part! They do not travel through the desert because they follow the main roads along the coast! Why do you think they fought for Ben Jawa and didn't go around it, or even tried to surround the ennemy troops? Because they don't want to enter the desert, as it's a very exposed area.

I'd also like to add that the information I provided doesn't only come from Al Jazeera (which has done a very great job and has played a great role since the beginning of these conflicts and which you quoted first), but from various newspapers who gather their information from the FPA or Reuters from what I usually see. If you consider Reuters or the French Press Agency unreliable, then you consider every information in the world unreliable since every news comes from on of the 5 world press agencies.


So please, if you have anything to add, back it up and organize a personal analysis of it. The fact that local resistance is uncoordinated is obvious, but that does not mean that there is no coordination. There are officers and intellectual behind the global movements, and they know what Ghadaffi has and what he could do.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 06 2011 22:06 GMT
#423

Muammar Gaddafi's forces are waging counterattacks on anti-government rebels along the central Libyan coast, with air raids and ground battles reported in Bin Jawad, Ras Lanuf, Az-Zawiyah and Misurata.

Gaddafi is facing an uprising since February 17 that poses the biggest challenge ever to his four-decade rule over the oil-rich north African nation.

Bin Jawad was reclaimed by government forces on Sunday, but opposition rebels continued to advance on the area amid conflicting claims about the capture and recapture of several strategic Libyan cities and towns.

Sources report deadly clashes took place in the area, that lies in the middle of the coastline between the opposition stronghold of Benghazi and the capital, Tripoli, over which Gaddafi retains a tight grip.

Injured opposition fighters had been taken to the local hospital in nearby Ras Lanuf, a rebel-held town.

Rebels in Misurata also beat back Gaddafi's forces in heavy fighting that left 18 people killed, a local doctor told the Reuters news agency.

Gaddafi meanwhile made a fleeting appearance on Libyan state television on Sunday night, but disappeared almost immediately.


Source

Also Gadafi's secret service is hacking the phones of the new Government formed in Benghazi.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2011 02:00 GMT
#424
1:20am

Associated Press - Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee says US and its allies should plan for a no-fly zone over Libya, and consider bombing the country's airports and runways, but they should take no action unless there is an international agreement.

But White and US defence officials remain reluctant.

"Lots of people throw around phrases of `no-fly zone' and they talk about it as though it's just a game, a video game or something. Some people who throw that line out have no idea what they're talking about," White House chief of staff William Daley said.


1:05am

Mohammed Ali, a member of the civil committee for Misurata affairs, tells Al Jazeera that rebels are in control of the area.

"We have also captured some Gaddafi [government] soldiers, and we will interrogate them. They will be shown on television on Monday," he said.

Our armoury is not a lot, but we have moral strength. We also need specific outside help, and a no-fly zone is long overdue."
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 07 2011 02:59 GMT
#425
On March 07 2011 05:47 Alshahin wrote:
Kukaracha, your attitude is the worst one you can have towards other people.

You are telling people they can't have an opinion on the internet? WTF You are a malicious idiot. And that's my opinion. Don't ask me to prove that until you prove I am xenophobic and ignorant. It seems I have more information you have so far. Also, you have been wrong several times, including about deserts.

Libya is 99% desert. I have the source right now and it is very respected. It takes just 10 seconds to google. But I won't spoon feed it you. You aren't worthy. I don't care if you are wrong.

As for all the tanks and support they have, who says those are on the attack right now? We don't know much but we do know the rebels aren't executing a unified and well organized operation towards Tripoli. Groups of people are acting on their own accords. Yes, there are tanks. But people attack without them. If they think their enemy is routed they will be very far away from all these tanks in those bases near Benghazi. We also know for a fact that those senior military people on the national council have so far only said that they can attack Sirte, but that they said they won't just yet.

Just wait a few days and see if my guess and speculation is true or not. Also, I suggest you turn off Al Jazeera because 98% of what they say is speculation and opinion. Not fact with sources and thorough research. Have a nice time.

And next time you are going to enter a discussion about military tactics, at least know something.
Also, next time when someone presents to you information that seem to be a revelation, don't feel personally insulted and go for an all out personal attack.


Please stop posting and shitting up this thread, everything he has posted has been backed by sources, you have had worthless posts that say your only one source is yourself. You're not contributing, you're just participating in a flamewar that you're clearly losing.

This is coming from an unbiased poster who has never heard either of your usernames before. I'm just annoyed as I check this thread almost daily.
Alshahin
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-07 03:42:35
March 07 2011 03:36 GMT
#426
You are only making it worse. Especially when you didn't read anything and are ignorant.

First off, he started. Hes he has 'sources' be so what? They don't even relate to what I posted. None of those 'sources' address anything I was talking about and they don't dispute or disprove anything I said.
Right now it is impossible to know what is going on anyway. Both sides are lying and no one can verify facts.

And I am still waiting for his source that shows that when you build a road in a desert, it is no longer a desert.

I saw no vegetation in any video that showed fighting the last few days. Those are all rock gardens?

Look, he is an idiot and a malicious user and you fell for it. Shame on you. And now you helped shit on this thread even more. You are just as guilty as he is.
I can post videos about journalists on the ground saying it is a chaos and that it is entirely uncoordinated. I won't I don't care about this argument. I only care about calling him out personally.

Look, he never disputed anything I said, asked for clarifications, asked for sources. If the situation were different I might actually have information no one else has. This was all ignored and he went for the personal attack, for no reason at all but his own psychotic tendencies, it seems, and went on a staw maning rampage.

He still keeps rambling on about nonsense, strawmaning and lying. I can give you a source that the mass of an iridium molecule is 192.217g/mol. I can give you a source that Obama gave a certain speech in Cairo. I can give a source that shows no azalea flowers are blue. My posts will be better sourced then his. So what.
jambam
Profile Joined June 2010
United States324 Posts
March 07 2011 03:46 GMT
#427
On March 07 2011 11:00 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
1:20am

Associated Press - Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee says US and its allies should plan for a no-fly zone over Libya, and consider bombing the country's airports and runways, but they should take no action unless there is an international agreement.

But White and US defence officials remain reluctant.

"Lots of people throw around phrases of `no-fly zone' and they talk about it as though it's just a game, a video game or something. Some people who throw that line out have no idea what they're talking about," White House chief of staff William Daley said.


Show nested quote +
1:05am

Mohammed Ali, a member of the civil committee for Misurata affairs, tells Al Jazeera that rebels are in control of the area.

"We have also captured some Gaddafi [government] soldiers, and we will interrogate them. They will be shown on television on Monday," he said.

Our armoury is not a lot, but we have moral strength. We also need specific outside help, and a no-fly zone is long overdue."


I'm a little uneducated in these matters, what's the function of a no-fly zone? How does it help the rebels?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2011 03:48 GMT
#428
On March 07 2011 12:46 jambam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2011 11:00 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
1:20am

Associated Press - Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee says US and its allies should plan for a no-fly zone over Libya, and consider bombing the country's airports and runways, but they should take no action unless there is an international agreement.

But White and US defence officials remain reluctant.

"Lots of people throw around phrases of `no-fly zone' and they talk about it as though it's just a game, a video game or something. Some people who throw that line out have no idea what they're talking about," White House chief of staff William Daley said.


1:05am

Mohammed Ali, a member of the civil committee for Misurata affairs, tells Al Jazeera that rebels are in control of the area.

"We have also captured some Gaddafi [government] soldiers, and we will interrogate them. They will be shown on television on Monday," he said.

Our armoury is not a lot, but we have moral strength. We also need specific outside help, and a no-fly zone is long overdue."


I'm a little uneducated in these matters, what's the function of a no-fly zone? How does it help the rebels?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_fly_zone
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-07 03:49:45
March 07 2011 03:49 GMT
#429
Alshahin, your argument:
On March 07 2011 00:38 Alshahin wrote:
I fear that the strategy of Gaddafi is to fake retreats with his well trained and disciplined troops and lure the rag tag armed civilians into or near Sirte and then hit the vanguard of the rebels very hard.

Yet the rebels believe they are winning extremely easy with little resistance, it seems.


His argument, backed by sources:
On March 07 2011 01:57 Kukaracha wrote:
Al Jazeera blog
Show nested quote +
2:00pm

Al Jazeera's correspondent in Ras Lanuf tells us that a large number of Libyan military figures have switched sides and have joined the armed opposition groups.


Situation in Ras Lanuf
Show nested quote +
In the west of Libya, anti-government protesters claim to have taken full control of the oil port of Ras Lanuf.

Some government soldiers in the strategic town have reportedly switched sides, and protesters say they are on the move towards Sirte, Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's hometown.

Al Jazeera's Hoda-Abdel Hamid reports from the town.


Show nested quote +
Timestamp:
8:40pm

A defected army officer teaches the use of an anti-aircraft gun to civilians who have volunteered to join the rebel army in Benghazi February 27, 2011. The rebel army is preparing to fight Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces in Tripoli if necessary, an official in the rebel army said. Via Reuters.


French newspaper Le Monde, about Zaouïa:

He's roughly saying that many are wounded and 7 dead, that hospitals are overcrowded and they need help.


Kukaracha 1:0 Alshahin

Your retort:
On March 07 2011 02:18 Alshahin wrote:
Typical French person that thinks everyone knows French.

...

Remember that the Libyan army is not a professional army. The rebels that are on the attack right now don't have tanks. They don't have organization.

...

So we just see a group of hundred civilians who never shot a gun touring around the desert, open to air attacks.


Kukaracha 2:0 Alshahin

Then you go on to say...

On March 07 2011 02:55 Alshahin wrote:
You are an ignorant asshole.

...

I have one source. My own opinion.


On March 07 2011 05:47 Alshahin wrote:
Kukaracha, your attitude is the worst one you can have towards other people.


Really?

Kukaracha 3:0 Alshahin

And that's only the tip of the iceberg. Too lazy to go through it all.
Writer
Alshahin
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
56 Posts
March 07 2011 03:49 GMT
#430
The Gaddafi still has airplanes. Libya is 99% desert or semi-desert and is very densely populated. It is one of the most ideal countries for air power. The rebels have only antiquated anti air machine guns.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2011 03:52 GMT
#431
Stop shitting on this thread or else.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Alshahin
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-07 03:56:05
March 07 2011 03:52 GMT
#432
Look, I don't want to go and record Al Jazeera videos. Their people on the ground reported several times that the mood of their soldiers changes on a whim, that most never held a gun before, that they have no leaders and that their act as a group unconsciously. They mention time and time again that people in the cities are celebrating because they believe they will win for sure. etc etc.

List goes on. Nothing he said goes against me expressing my fears, not beliefs.
Distances are huge, they can't hide at all, etc. If Gaddafi forces fake weakness and tactically withdraw that can be very dangerous. I never even suggested that is what is happening, ever.

This is what happens when you get ignorant people with no clue of military tactics. And if you enjoy being on the side of the fake nice guy more than being right, you will be wrong time and time again.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2011 04:04 GMT
#433



AJE Images
:

[image loading]

[image loading]
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 07 2011 06:16 GMT
#434
From the Independent:


Desperate to avoid US military involvement in Libya in the event of a prolonged struggle between the Gaddafi regime and its opponents, the Americans have asked Saudi Arabia if it can supply weapons to the rebels in Benghazi. The Saudi Kingdom, already facing a "day of rage" from its 10 per cent Shia Muslim community on Friday, with a ban on all demonstrations, has so far failed to respond to Washington's highly classified request, although King Abdullah personally loathes the Libyan leader, who tried to assassinate him just over a year ago.

Washington's request is in line with other US military co-operation with the Saudis. The royal family in Jeddah, which was deeply involved in the Contra scandal during the Reagan administration, gave immediate support to American efforts to arm guerrillas fighting the Soviet army in Afghanistan in 1980 and later – to America's chagrin – also funded and armed the Taliban.

But the Saudis remain the only US Arab ally strategically placed and capable of furnishing weapons to the guerrillas of Libya. Their assistance would allow Washington to disclaim any military involvement in the supply chain – even though the arms would be American and paid for by the Saudis.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
March 07 2011 11:39 GMT
#435
A second plane has attacked Ras Lanuf. The rebels don't have much chances to advance into Sirte without an air exclusion zone and a decisive victory in Ben Jawad.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Ilfirin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States102 Posts
March 07 2011 19:41 GMT
#436
According to CNN, the US govt has said that while not on the top of their list, sending in ground troops is being considered.
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
March 07 2011 20:12 GMT
#437
I believe there are already 12000 Marines near Libya, but I could be wrong, I don't remember where I saw this.

What I find frightening is the fact that any immediate action - even by the NATO - depends of UNO decisions, while China and Russia seem to be against any foreign intervention. Their veto would slow everything down OR it would take away a lot of credibility from the UN, just like the war of Irak did.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
March 07 2011 20:15 GMT
#438
Do i understand your post wrong Kukaracha, or you want foreign intervention in Libya?
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
March 07 2011 20:24 GMT
#439
I think an air exclusion zone would be the least we can do... firing bombs on your own people, from the sky, is wrong on so many levels.
Supplying the rebels with weapons would also be a possibility, to make sure it remains their fight while still avoiding the massive slaughter that is coming.

However, foreign troops actually setting foot on Libya is in my opinion a very risky bet, as I fail to recognize every possible consequence.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Pika Chu
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Romania2510 Posts
March 07 2011 20:38 GMT
#440
I for one am against any kind of foreign intervention in Libya.

Right now it is a war in Libya, there aren't protests anymore, not a revolution anymore, just plain war. That's what happens when both sides are using arms. That's something we (people from the outside who are getting emotional reading a thread and seeing images) need to understand. We were all full of indignation when we saw peaceful protesters in Egypt being shot at and hit with rocks and etc, but this isn't the same situation.
They first ignore you. After they laugh at you. Next they will fight you. In the end you will win.
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