On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
Neither country recognizes that they are at war with eachother and thus they are not.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
so you decide wether 2 countries are at war or not instead of their governments. interesting.
tbh im not sure about all the things that happened down there. in the end there are many different views that all have some good points. gadaffi did good and bad stuff. the nato helped a group that wouldve gotten slaughtered. but is it our job to help revolutions in another country?
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote:
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote:
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
yes it is all Al Qaeda and the US who wants world domination!
3 hours 55 min ago - Libya Key prison records and other documentation are at risk of being lost as sites remain unsecure and documents destroyed or taken away in Libya, Amnesty International warned today.
In a press release Amnesty International said:
"The Transitional National Council (NTC) authorities must protect such evidence where it is found or collect it in a central repository for safe-keeping. They should also appeal to those individuals who have taken any such documents to return them to the authorities as soon as possible."
Read the full press release here.
3 hours 25 min ago - Libya
Members of the Khamis Brigade, a powerful Gaddafi military force run by Muammar Gaddafi’s son Khamis, appear to have summarily executed detainees in a warehouse in Yarmouk near Tripoli on August 23, Human Rights Watch said today.
Zeina Khoudr reporting from Yarmouk said witnesses told her approximately 150 dead bodies were found inside a makeshift jail when "Gaddafi's forces opened fire and threw grenades" at the detainees.
2 hours 22 min ago - Libya
Liam Fox, the British Defense Minister, told Al Jazeera that NATO airstrikes will continue until the threat to civilians is over.
"As soon as they [civilians] are no longer threatened by remnants of the Gaddafi regime the NATO mission will be over," Fox said.
"The easiest way for it to end is for Gaddafi's men to lay down arms. The regime needs to recognise that they need to work with the NTC."
2 hours 11 min ago - Libya
The AP news agency reported that Mourad Medelic, the Algerian foreign minister, has met Mahmoud Jibril, the deputy head of the National Transitional Council.
"Mr Medelci met with Mahmud Jibril on the sidelines of the Arab League meeting in Cairo which has just taken place," Amar Belani, foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement.
2 hours 4 sec ago - Libya
Key figures from the Libyan NTC asked NATO to keep up pressure on elements of Muammar Gaddafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gaddafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
"Gaddafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments.''
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote:
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
yes it is all Al Qaeda and the US who wants world domination!
3 hours 55 min ago - Libya Key prison records and other documentation are at risk of being lost as sites remain unsecure and documents destroyed or taken away in Libya, Amnesty International warned today.
In a press release Amnesty International said:
"The Transitional National Council (NTC) authorities must protect such evidence where it is found or collect it in a central repository for safe-keeping. They should also appeal to those individuals who have taken any such documents to return them to the authorities as soon as possible."
Members of the Khamis Brigade, a powerful Gaddafi military force run by Muammar Gaddafi’s son Khamis, appear to have summarily executed detainees in a warehouse in Yarmouk near Tripoli on August 23, Human Rights Watch said today.
Zeina Khoudr reporting from Yarmouk said witnesses told her approximately 150 dead bodies were found inside a makeshift jail when "Gaddafi's forces opened fire and threw grenades" at the detainees.
The AP news agency reported that Mourad Medelic, the Algerian foreign minister, has met Mahmoud Jibril, the deputy head of the National Transitional Council.
"Mr Medelci met with Mahmud Jibril on the sidelines of the Arab League meeting in Cairo which has just taken place," Amar Belani, foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement.
Key figures from the Libyan NTC asked NATO to keep up pressure on elements of Muammar Gaddafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gaddafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
"Gaddafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments.''
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote:
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
yes it is all Al Qaeda and the US who wants world domination!
3 hours 55 min ago - Libya Key prison records and other documentation are at risk of being lost as sites remain unsecure and documents destroyed or taken away in Libya, Amnesty International warned today.
In a press release Amnesty International said:
"The Transitional National Council (NTC) authorities must protect such evidence where it is found or collect it in a central repository for safe-keeping. They should also appeal to those individuals who have taken any such documents to return them to the authorities as soon as possible."
Read the full press release here.
3 hours 25 min ago - Libya
Members of the Khamis Brigade, a powerful Gaddafi military force run by Muammar Gaddafi’s son Khamis, appear to have summarily executed detainees in a warehouse in Yarmouk near Tripoli on August 23, Human Rights Watch said today.
Zeina Khoudr reporting from Yarmouk said witnesses told her approximately 150 dead bodies were found inside a makeshift jail when "Gaddafi's forces opened fire and threw grenades" at the detainees.
2 hours 22 min ago - Libya
Liam Fox, the British Defense Minister, told Al Jazeera that NATO airstrikes will continue until the threat to civilians is over.
"As soon as they [civilians] are no longer threatened by remnants of the Gaddafi regime the NATO mission will be over," Fox said.
"The easiest way for it to end is for Gaddafi's men to lay down arms. The regime needs to recognise that they need to work with the NTC."
2 hours 11 min ago - Libya
The AP news agency reported that Mourad Medelic, the Algerian foreign minister, has met Mahmoud Jibril, the deputy head of the National Transitional Council.
"Mr Medelci met with Mahmud Jibril on the sidelines of the Arab League meeting in Cairo which has just taken place," Amar Belani, foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement.
2 hours 4 sec ago - Libya
Key figures from the Libyan NTC asked NATO to keep up pressure on elements of Muammar Gaddafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gaddafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
"Gaddafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments.''
Its proven that there are Alqaeda militants among the so called rebels.
yeah, I have no doubt that there are Al-Qaeda fighers amongst the rebels, and that they want Gaddaffi to go down. There was never much love between those two. I'm sure Al-Qaeda hopes that they can establish an islamistic state - pretty much like pre-war Afghanistan in Lybia, and that's why they are fighting in this war.
But you guys just assume, that this automatically means, that Al-Qaeda works for the US / CIA and that it is the US plan to establish an Islamic state as new threat, and that this is the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job etc.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote:
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
yes it is all Al Qaeda and the US who wants world domination!
3 hours 55 min ago - Libya Key prison records and other documentation are at risk of being lost as sites remain unsecure and documents destroyed or taken away in Libya, Amnesty International warned today.
In a press release Amnesty International said:
"The Transitional National Council (NTC) authorities must protect such evidence where it is found or collect it in a central repository for safe-keeping. They should also appeal to those individuals who have taken any such documents to return them to the authorities as soon as possible."
Read the full press release here.
3 hours 25 min ago - Libya
Members of the Khamis Brigade, a powerful Gaddafi military force run by Muammar Gaddafi’s son Khamis, appear to have summarily executed detainees in a warehouse in Yarmouk near Tripoli on August 23, Human Rights Watch said today.
Zeina Khoudr reporting from Yarmouk said witnesses told her approximately 150 dead bodies were found inside a makeshift jail when "Gaddafi's forces opened fire and threw grenades" at the detainees.
2 hours 22 min ago - Libya
Liam Fox, the British Defense Minister, told Al Jazeera that NATO airstrikes will continue until the threat to civilians is over.
"As soon as they [civilians] are no longer threatened by remnants of the Gaddafi regime the NATO mission will be over," Fox said.
"The easiest way for it to end is for Gaddafi's men to lay down arms. The regime needs to recognise that they need to work with the NTC."
2 hours 11 min ago - Libya
The AP news agency reported that Mourad Medelic, the Algerian foreign minister, has met Mahmoud Jibril, the deputy head of the National Transitional Council.
"Mr Medelci met with Mahmud Jibril on the sidelines of the Arab League meeting in Cairo which has just taken place," Amar Belani, foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement.
2 hours 4 sec ago - Libya
Key figures from the Libyan NTC asked NATO to keep up pressure on elements of Muammar Gaddafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gaddafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
"Gaddafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments.''
Its proven that there are Alqaeda militants among the so called rebels.
yeah, I have no doubt that there are Al-Qaeda fighers amongst the rebels, and that they want Gaddaffi to go down. There was never much love between those two. I'm sure Al-Qaeda hopes that they can establish an islamistic state - pretty much like pre-war Afghanistan in Lybia, and that's why they are fighting in this war. But you guys just assume, that this automatically means, that Al-Qaeda works for the US / CIA and that it is the US plan to establish an Islamic state as new threat, and that this is the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job etc.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote: [quote]
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
yes it is all Al Qaeda and the US who wants world domination!
3 hours 55 min ago - Libya Key prison records and other documentation are at risk of being lost as sites remain unsecure and documents destroyed or taken away in Libya, Amnesty International warned today.
In a press release Amnesty International said:
"The Transitional National Council (NTC) authorities must protect such evidence where it is found or collect it in a central repository for safe-keeping. They should also appeal to those individuals who have taken any such documents to return them to the authorities as soon as possible."
Read the full press release here.
3 hours 25 min ago - Libya
Members of the Khamis Brigade, a powerful Gaddafi military force run by Muammar Gaddafi’s son Khamis, appear to have summarily executed detainees in a warehouse in Yarmouk near Tripoli on August 23, Human Rights Watch said today.
Zeina Khoudr reporting from Yarmouk said witnesses told her approximately 150 dead bodies were found inside a makeshift jail when "Gaddafi's forces opened fire and threw grenades" at the detainees.
2 hours 22 min ago - Libya
Liam Fox, the British Defense Minister, told Al Jazeera that NATO airstrikes will continue until the threat to civilians is over.
"As soon as they [civilians] are no longer threatened by remnants of the Gaddafi regime the NATO mission will be over," Fox said.
"The easiest way for it to end is for Gaddafi's men to lay down arms. The regime needs to recognise that they need to work with the NTC."
2 hours 11 min ago - Libya
The AP news agency reported that Mourad Medelic, the Algerian foreign minister, has met Mahmoud Jibril, the deputy head of the National Transitional Council.
"Mr Medelci met with Mahmud Jibril on the sidelines of the Arab League meeting in Cairo which has just taken place," Amar Belani, foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement.
2 hours 4 sec ago - Libya
Key figures from the Libyan NTC asked NATO to keep up pressure on elements of Muammar Gaddafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gaddafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
"Gaddafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments.''
Its proven that there are Alqaeda militants among the so called rebels.
yeah, I have no doubt that there are Al-Qaeda fighers amongst the rebels, and that they want Gaddaffi to go down. There was never much love between those two. I'm sure Al-Qaeda hopes that they can establish an islamistic state - pretty much like pre-war Afghanistan in Lybia, and that's why they are fighting in this war. But you guys just assume, that this automatically means, that Al-Qaeda works for the US / CIA and that it is the US plan to establish an Islamic state as new threat, and that this is the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job etc.
hm? who said that? ...
well, sorry for pointing that one to you, guess I read to many posts from RaQll and Geyzer.
It's what RaQll said in his long post, after pointing out that there are Al-Qaeda fighers amongst the rebels, which was one of the posts you quoted there.
Saif: "We have no intention of killing them or taking revenge on these traitors who have betrayed our people. We say to them that they can run into Egypt quite safely because Libya no longer belongs to them. A lot of them have already left for Egypt."
"We have prevented as massacre in Benghazi".. .bullshit! Everyone who was afraid to be killed could leave the country. The situation drew a lot of international attention, Gaddafi wanted to remain "friends" with West so he would allow to leave everyone who wanted. I hope no one really believes that the entire city would be destroyed.
And now we have a massacre, thanks to NATO intervention.
BTW, I do not mind if Gaddafi have killed some throat cutting, decapitation lovers.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members.
and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"?
well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan...
I'd saying bombing a country qualifies as war and the USA has bombed Pakistan numerous times and has killed thousand of innocent civilians there as well, including woman and children. If you think bombing someone is called kinetic action or humanitarian action or peace or something other than war you are seriously in denial.
On August 29 2011 20:54 RvB wrote:
On August 29 2011 20:45 Pika Chu wrote:
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote:
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya.
I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full.
Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went.
But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on.
Well the west and NATO obviously don't do it for nothing but I think it's stupid that people go speculate so widly already while nothing is clear yet about their future the war isn't even over yet. Obviously it will be hard to come out of this well but saying they wont is just baseless at the moment. Besides rebuilding a country can give a lot of jobs and the economy might actually get a massive boost from it.
Actually they were already build up and had the second best infrastructure only behind south Africa. Now after all the air strikes they have been send back to the stone age thanks to NATO.
I mean just look at the facts, does thousand dead civilians from bombs, hundreds of destroyed buildings and total chaos looks like humanitarian action to you? I'd say it look to me as war with total and utter destruction with no consideration for the general public.
I also see huge and rich oil fields, 120 tons of 24 carat gold and great geo-political asset in Libya.
they had huge problems with youth unemployment revolutions don't happen when people are satisfied with what they got. And I never said war wasn't a bad thing but it has happened and they fought to make their own decissions without a dictator ( obviously we don't know if it will end up like that yet ). And indeed war can have positive effect on the economy although not always.
Rebel fighters are apparently moving in on Sirte, Gadaffi's hometown and one of his last strongholds. but they're waiting for experienced fighters from Tripoli
According to Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr, the fighters are awaiting more men to join them from the capital, but there was little likelihood that the reinforcements would arrive soon.
"There are no lack of men who actually lack weapons, but what you lack are trained fighters," Khodr said on Monday.
As fighters advanced towards Sirte, there were pockets of dissent within the country accusing the NTC of not being transparent enough in nominating members for a new administration.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from a protest in Misrata, said: "They [the protesters] say the old guard of the Gaddafi regime are far too prominent in the list of people issued so far.
"They are also insisting there should be new faces for a new Libya.
"A lot of this is due to communications and the way the National Transitional Council has been concentrating so much on diplomacy and the economy, and maybe not looking inwards enough."
They're also gaining ground in other important parts of tripoli.
Elsewhere in the country, fighters have gained control of a number of key locations over the last days, including Bin Jawad, which they claimed late on Saturday.
Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons reports from Misrata on dissent against the NTC's adiminstrative appointments.
Reporting from the city on Sunday, Al Jazeera's Jacky Rowland said: "Bin Jawad is now under rebel control, but the rebels warn us that the town itself is still quite unsafe".
Rebels aren't open for negotiations anymore.
But a top official in the NTC told Reuters that Libya's rebel government would not negotiate with Gaddafi unless he surrendered.
"No negotiation is taking place with Gaddafi," Ali Tarhouni, the NTC official in charge of oil and financial matters said.
Gaddafi's whereabouts remains unknown and fighters have offered a reward for his capture or killing.
Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government?
Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured.
So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes.
Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya?
AS I've already proven, the uprising wasn't organic. This means it wasn't started by the Libyan people, but it was carefully planed and orchestrated by NATO in which they openly admit to using Al-Qaeda forces and troops and intelligence officers on the ground to orchestrate and start the uprising.
yes it is all Al Qaeda and the US who wants world domination!
3 hours 55 min ago - Libya Key prison records and other documentation are at risk of being lost as sites remain unsecure and documents destroyed or taken away in Libya, Amnesty International warned today.
In a press release Amnesty International said:
"The Transitional National Council (NTC) authorities must protect such evidence where it is found or collect it in a central repository for safe-keeping. They should also appeal to those individuals who have taken any such documents to return them to the authorities as soon as possible."
Read the full press release here.
3 hours 25 min ago - Libya
Members of the Khamis Brigade, a powerful Gaddafi military force run by Muammar Gaddafi’s son Khamis, appear to have summarily executed detainees in a warehouse in Yarmouk near Tripoli on August 23, Human Rights Watch said today.
Zeina Khoudr reporting from Yarmouk said witnesses told her approximately 150 dead bodies were found inside a makeshift jail when "Gaddafi's forces opened fire and threw grenades" at the detainees.
2 hours 22 min ago - Libya
Liam Fox, the British Defense Minister, told Al Jazeera that NATO airstrikes will continue until the threat to civilians is over.
"As soon as they [civilians] are no longer threatened by remnants of the Gaddafi regime the NATO mission will be over," Fox said.
"The easiest way for it to end is for Gaddafi's men to lay down arms. The regime needs to recognise that they need to work with the NTC."
2 hours 11 min ago - Libya
The AP news agency reported that Mourad Medelic, the Algerian foreign minister, has met Mahmoud Jibril, the deputy head of the National Transitional Council.
"Mr Medelci met with Mahmud Jibril on the sidelines of the Arab League meeting in Cairo which has just taken place," Amar Belani, foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement.
2 hours 4 sec ago - Libya
Key figures from the Libyan NTC asked NATO to keep up pressure on elements of Muammar Gaddafi's regime and to protect those struggling to restore electricity and water to the battle-scarred capital of Tripoli.
National Transitional Council head Mustafa Abdul-Jalil told senior NATO envoys meeting in the Gulf Arab nation of Qatar that Gaddafi, who has been in hiding since rebels captured Tripoli a week ago, can still cause trouble.
"Gaddafi is still capable is doing something awful in the last moments.''
Its proven that there are Alqaeda militants among the so called rebels.
yeah, I have no doubt that there are Al-Qaeda fighers amongst the rebels, and that they want Gaddaffi to go down. There was never much love between those two. I'm sure Al-Qaeda hopes that they can establish an islamistic state - pretty much like pre-war Afghanistan in Lybia, and that's why they are fighting in this war.
But you guys just assume, that this automatically means, that Al-Qaeda works for the US / CIA and that it is the US plan to establish an Islamic state as new threat, and that this is the evidence that 9/11 was an inside job etc.
And at the same time, they link articles that claim that the new Libya will be an Israeli puppet.
On August 29 2011 08:31 GeyzeR wrote: Nightfall.589, update yourself. It was already in the topic. It is official from the NATO side.
Link me a NATO report that says they have troops on the ground, participating in military actions. Again, excluding the dozen Germans, who were escorting a diplomat. Your following link was... completely irrelevant.
Report: Gadhafi's wife, daughter, 2 sons are in Algeria
Update at 1:21 p.m. ET: The Associated Press confirms the report, also quoting Algeria's state news agency. The reports cites the Foreign Affairs Ministry as saying the family entered the neighboring country on Monday. It did not immediately provide additional details or say whether Gadhafi himself was with the family.
"Gaddafi had bent the country over for 4 decades" is another shameless lie. There is already a lot of information in the topic, links etc. If you insist, please find what was economically wrong with the country from pre-17feb source.
Gaddafi fighting with islamists all the time and no doubt he killed some. But could you please say something about the people killed by qaddafi for 40 years? Again, better without post revolution propaganda, but from a neutral source.
lololol
are you serious
i think you demanding proof of the cruelty and violence of the qaddafi government shows how in-credible you are to offer an opinion on the issue
and the "but from a neutral source" just shows that you're not really interested in anything, you already have an escape hatch to disregard it.
who are you anyway to just preemptively declare that some information is wrong based on some sort of ridiculous standards about what is credible and what is not
On August 29 2011 23:57 GeyzeR wrote: Saif: "We have no intention of killing them or taking revenge on these traitors who have betrayed our people. We say to them that they can run into Egypt quite safely because Libya no longer belongs to them. A lot of them have already left for Egypt."
"We have prevented as massacre in Benghazi".. .bullshit! Everyone who was afraid to be killed could leave the country. The situation drew a lot of international attention, Gaddafi wanted to remain "friends" with West so he would allow to leave everyone who wanted. I hope no one really believes that the entire city would be destroyed.
And now we have a massacre, thanks to NATO intervention.
BTW, I do not mind if Gaddafi have killed some throat cutting, decapitation lovers.
Did you not watch the speech where he proclaimed that they'd pretty much go door to door and kill everyone ("who's not loyal", which in this context is exactly everyone in Benghazi)? Because I sure did. Doesn't get much clearer than when it comes from the mans own lips.
He is just a troll. A while back he suggested people read his Green Book, because it apparently contains revelations.
Gaddafi in February read from his Green Book in that long speech. He was kind of quoting the revolutionaries should be executed because that's what the Green Book said.
"We are not blame the youth and when they are caught and prosecuted they will be begging for mercy, and this time we will not be so merciful, we will not be forgiving. Any who undermines the constitution, anyone, by force, or otherwise, to undermine and change by force or any other way, and the punishment is death."
He says that while holding the Green Book.
"I haven’t even started to give orders to use bullets. Any use of force against the authority of the state, anyone causing murder shall be handed the death sentence. All these punishable by death, all these I mentioned."
Also, what kind of nonsense argument is that the 'traitors' can flee to Egypt so they won't be massacred for sure and the Gaddafi regime is not to be blamed when they do get massacred?
These people are just whores of Gaddafi. Let's ignore them and wait for a moderator with a brain to ban them.
Back a while ago we had someone who claimed and probably is a real Libyan express his disgust. The disrespect these conspiracy nuts show towards the Libyans alone is sickening. The cynicism they show towards the ability of Libyans to make their country more successful is very sad and not based on anything.
As for US and Pakistan, if Pakistan decides to, US actions can be seen as an act of war. They would normally be an act of war. But this is something between Pakistan and the US, not between US, Pakistan and Gaddafi.
On August 30 2011 05:56 Suisen wrote: He is just a troll. A while back he suggested people read his Green Book, because it apparently contains revelations.
Gaddafi in February read from his Green Book in that long speech. He was kind of quoting the revolutionaries should be executed because that's what the Green Book said.
"We are not blame the youth and when they are caught and prosecuted they will be begging for mercy, and this time we will not be so merciful, we will not be forgiving. Any who undermines the constitution, anyone, by force, or otherwise, to undermine and change by force or any other way, and the punishment is death."
He says that while holding the Green Book.
"I haven’t even started to give orders to use bullets. Any use of force against the authority of the state, anyone causing murder shall be handed the death sentence. All these punishable by death, all these I mentioned."
Also, what kind of nonsense argument is that the 'traitors' can flee to Egypt so they won't be massacred for sure and the Gaddafi regime is not to be blamed when they do get massacred?
These people are just whores of Gaddafi. Let's ignore them and wait for a moderator with a brain to ban them.
Back a while ago we had someone who claimed and probably is a real Libyan express his disgust. The disrespect these conspiracy nuts show towards the Libyans alone is sickening. The cynicism they show towards the ability of Libyans to make their country more successful is very sad and not based on anything.
As for US and Pakistan, if Pakistan decides to, US actions can be seen as an act of war. They would normally be an act of war. But this is something between Pakistan and the US, not between US, Pakistan and Gaddafi.
Hopefully Ghaddafi will retake the country, its almost impossible but i hope he fights to the end.
I wonder what they will do when they reach Fezzan a region populated mostly by black Lybians.. will they call them mercenaries and kill them?
EPT
