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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. | ||
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beg
991 Posts
He is obviously lying, you can try and portrait me how ever you want but you can't deny that this man is blatantly lying." indeed man. propaganda at its best.  ahhh i'm so sick of this stuff. sooooo sick. so glad we'll be dead one day. damn will we sleep fine <3 | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On August 29 2011 09:02 ImFromPortugal wrote: yap he said military targets. anyway whats the problem of being anti-west imperialism? To be anti-X, X has to exist, in this case, it really doesn't... If the west was after Libya's resources then they should have helped Gaddafi crush the rebellion as fast as possible because he was more than happy to sell shit to us cheaply these days. | ||
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beg
991 Posts
seriously, i was surprised to see how many people are actually liking what your/our governments are doing. i thought there would be quite a few people being critical, but nope. not really. USA loving their governments! in germany, so much more people are critical of what our leaders are doing, it's not even funny. literally everyone will say they are disappointed in the government and thinks they are lying to us on a regular basis. | ||
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GeyzeR
250 Posts
Anders Fogh Rasmussen shamelessly lied, saying that there is no civilian casualties. "Gaddafi had bent the country over for 4 decades" is another shameless lie. There is already a lot of information in the topic, links etc. If you insist, please find what was economically wrong with the country from pre-17feb source. Gaddafi fighting with islamists all the time and no doubt he killed some. But could you please say something about the people killed by qaddafi for 40 years? Again, better without post revolution propaganda, but from a neutral source. BTW, Libya prison population rate is 207(many of them are radical islamists, considered terrorists before and political prisoners now) per 100000, USA - 738. Libya was a very low crime level country. | ||
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Saji
Netherlands262 Posts
On August 29 2011 09:13 jello_biafra wrote: To be anti-X, X has to exist, in this case, it really doesn't... If the west was after Libya's resources then they should have helped Gaddafi crush the rebellion as fast as possible because he was more than happy to sell shit to us cheaply these days. Your argument doesn't hold first of all Libya was selling oil through Italy, secondly Libya was going to let Russia dig for some more by using Eni America wasn't too happy about this. It seems by your question that you can't seem to put in perspective what is happening. Thirdly America and the UK never had much of a Pie of Libya's oil (compared to Italy and what Russia was going to have) Do you know the notion of Geopolitics? you should look it op maybe that could give you the ability to look at these event differently, when you want to talk about oil, benefits, foreign policies and multinationals. You can start by watching this video. WikiLeaks Reveals US Wanted To Keep Russia Out Of Libyan Oil Kevin Hall: US wanted to block Italian Eni from acting as "stalking horse" for Gazprom http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=6759 | ||
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Saji
Netherlands262 Posts
On August 29 2011 09:25 GeyzeR wrote: DeepElemBlues, Anders Fogh Rasmussen shamelessly lied, saying that there is no civilian casualties. "Gaddafi had bent the country over for 4 decades" is another shameless lie. There is already a lot of information in the topic, links etc. If you insist, please find what was economically wrong with the country from pre-17feb source. Gaddafi fighting with islamists all the time and no doubt he killed some. But could you please say something about the people killed by qaddafi for 40 years? Again, better without post revolution propaganda, but from a neutral source. BTW, Libya prison population rate is 207(many of them are radical islamists, considered terrorists before and political prisoners now) per 100000, USA - 738. Libya was a very low crime level country. Facts don't matter, look at how american politics is driven by deceit lies and propaganda. I don't know but it seems the average american can't see the different s between facts and lies. (I`m generalizing now). It`s embedded in their culture. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On August 29 2011 08:46 jello_biafra wrote: GeyzeR do you just read news reports then presume that the exact opposite of what the reports say is what's actually happening? Seems that way to me... People at my work were talking about Libya a lot today, some of them know people from the region and are muslims who follow events in the whole muslim world very closely and they seem to have legitimate reasons for supporting the rebels. I just don't know what to say to people who genuinely believe that Gaddafi has any credibility whatsoever. How can these so called rebels, who are practically led by former minister of justice and others that served for a long time during Gaddafi, have any credibility? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12698562 The people who are in the national committee are not new, they've been in power before this weird coup, and you trust them? Beside, all this western propaganda against the libyan regime makes me puke sometimes, it's so visible and so obvious. | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
Khadafi has been leading the country for 40 years. How many Libyans do you think have not been affiliated with the old regime, at all? If Libya can't reconciliate with those that were a part of the old regime, they are going to end up like Iraq. Also, if all allegations against Khadafi is only western propaganda, how come al jazeera is basically writing the same stuff? | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On August 29 2011 17:22 Ghad wrote: Pika Chu: Khadafi has been leading the country for 40 years. How many Libyans do you think have not been affiliated with the old regime, at all? If Libya can't reconciliate with those that were a part of the old regime, they are going to end up like Iraq. Also, if all allegations against Khadafi is only western propaganda, how come al jazeera is basically writing the same stuff? A justice minister is more than affiliated. He's not some random worker in a ministry. He's the justice minister, a man who, if there were indeed so many unfair trials and oppression in the old regime, was directly involved in it. I'm not saying libya shouldn't reconciliate with the old regime, but just as they can reconciliate with gaddafi or anyone else. What i see is this was nothing more than an elaborated coup d'etat, which attracted the interests of many powerful countries, in which a part of the regime took down another. This war between the two factions lasted for almost 8 months, thew the country to chaos, destroyed the lives of many innocents. Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya. | ||
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GeyzeR
250 Posts
Official version - support of HAMAS. But Qatar and other arab countries always supported HAMAS. Unofficial - the big role Qatar played in turning Libya into al-Qaeda state. | ||
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
On August 29 2011 17:59 GeyzeR wrote: Israel suspended diplomatic relations with Qatar. Official version - support of HAMAS. But Qatar and other arab countries always supported HAMAS. Unofficial - the big role Qatar played in turning Libya into al-Qaeda state. oh god, is this finally a conspiracy where Mossad isn't a part of? and I must have missed the ceremony where they raised the al-Qaeda flag in Tripoli... really now, cut the crap.. | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
On August 29 2011 17:56 Pika Chu wrote: Right after, the western countries will give a big loan to Libya for reconstruction, and in exchange they will get all oil and whatever they need from Libya. I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full. | ||
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GeyzeR
250 Posts
Once there was anti Jew violence in Libya and Gaddafi organized a safe return for them to Israel and later compensated for the lost property. There was a conspiracy that Mossad secretly was helping Gaddafi. So no, there is no conspiracy without Mossad as a part of it --------------------------------------------- Human rights organisations have cast doubt on claims of mass rape and other abuses perpetrated by forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, which have been widely used to justify Nato's war in Libya. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/amnesty-questions-claim-that-gaddafi-ordered-rape-as-weapon-of-war-2302037.html | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6322 Posts
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RaQIl
Macedonia25 Posts
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20048982-503543.html http://theintelhub.com/2011/08/21/libya-libyan-rebels-are-cia-funded-al-qaeda-connected-murderers/ Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/u-s-officially-recognizes-libyan-rebels-as-legitimate-government/ http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/15/us-libya-idUSTRE76E0M720110715 Add to this the fact that it is now admitted that USA and British troops were in Libya even before the "official" NATO attack on the back of the UN resolution, supposedly a humanitarian action, that we now know has killed thousand of civilians and left just as many injured. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/31/world/africa/31intel.html?_r=3&hp http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/25/libya-rebel-backers-free-funds http://newworldorderreport.com/Default.aspx?tabid=266&ID=7474 http://www.elusivetruth.com/?p=733 So all of you who still believe this hoax how NATO is in Libya for "humanitarian" purposes or whatever propaganda is spewed you better wake up and realize the lies you've been told. The evidence is overwhelming that this was a carefully planned operation even years before the official rebel attacks and air strikes. Also if Al-Qaeda is now officially huge part of the rebels forces and they've been directly helped by USA and NATO forces, all this 9/11 was perpetrated by Al-Qaeda needs to be examined. Is Al-Qaeda an extended hand of the USA or not and why are they now supported and recognized as official government in Libya? | ||
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nodnod
New Zealand172 Posts
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Nesto
Switzerland1318 Posts
On August 29 2011 20:08 RaQIl wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20048982-503543.html http://theintelhub.com/2011/08/21/libya-libyan-rebels-are-cia-funded-al-qaeda-connected-murderers/ Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda. So if al-qaeda blew up the twin towers on 9/11 and is the reason why USA is in war with 3 countries (Iraq, Afghan and Pakistan) how come USA supports Al-Qaeda in Libya and even officially announced them as official government? so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members. and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"? | ||
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Taosu
Ukraine1074 Posts
Reporting from Baghdad— At least 28 worshipers, including a member of parliament, were killed Sunday by a suicide bomber who blew himself up inside Baghdad's largest Sunni mosque, violence that harked back to the sectarian warfare in Iraq after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that ousted Saddam Hussein. ... As American forces prepare to complete their departure from Iraq at year's end, the incident provided the latest indicator that security in the country remains uncertain. So, the democracy has finally reached its completion and kicked in Iraq. Now after Gadaffi's down Libyan people can have some too. | ||
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LittleAtari
Jordan1090 Posts
On August 29 2011 20:23 Nesto wrote: so the article says that, a rebel leader admits that some of his fighters have al qaeda ties and the CIA guy says they are monitoring it and are not yet sure how many of the rebels are al qaeda / LIFG members. and what you read is that "Most of the rebels are admittedly Al-Qaeda"? well he also thinks the US is at war with Pakistan... | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On August 29 2011 18:34 Ghad wrote: I am not saying that there is no element of realpolitik in the intervention, and Al Jazeera is writing page up and page down about this side of the whole ordeal. The simple fact remains that Khadafi in february unleashed his military on peaceful demonstrations, using artillery and fighterbombers on unarmed civilians, and that started the uprising in full. Honestly, if Gaddafi would've really ordered his army to kill civilians with artillery and bombers, we would've have not tens of hundreds, but thousands or more deaths. Probably when the waters will cool down and this will be history, in 30 years we will find out how that really went. But one thing i stated from the beginning. It was bad with Gaddafi from certain points of view, but it's much worse without him. Look at the chaos, look at how destroyed Libya is, look at the killings going on and the publication of the national rebel committee of a document which says they will get to democracy but everything will be in the limits of the sharia law (islamic law). I believe if Libya gets an islamist country this is going to be much worse for the rest of the world, not saying the people don't have the right to choose and if they choose to turn into an islamic state so be it, but for the rest of the world i'm sure it will be worse later on. | ||
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