• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:32
CEST 10:32
KST 17:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris34Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update A Eulogy for the Six Pool BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ No Rain in ASL20? How do I speak directly to Coinbase?1-(888)-419-97 Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [ASL20] Ro24 Group E [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group D
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mechabellum General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2834 users

Article: "Why Chinese mothers are superior." - Page 27

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 Next All
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
January 17 2011 22:26 GMT
#521
On January 18 2011 07:12 sylverfyre wrote:
She also wrote a whole book on the subject, which is probably a far more complete representation of her thoughts on the matter than the article.

Congratulations on stating the obvious.
random user
Profile Joined December 2010
85 Posts
January 18 2011 17:11 GMT
#522
On January 18 2011 05:14 Lefnui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 16:50 random user wrote:
I don't think she's backpedeling.

The subtitle of the book is:

This was supposed to be a story of how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones. But instead it’s about a bitter clash of cultures, a fleeting taste of glory, and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old.

She also did state that she didn't pick the title for the WSJ article.

Without actually reading the book, I don't feel qualified to say what I think she actually meant to say, but I think unless you have actually read the book, you might want to try and keep an open mind.

That's nonsense. "What she actually meant to say"? How about reading the words she wrote? There's no reason to assume that she misspoke or misrepresented her own views. She wrote an entire article on the subject, how is that not enough to judge?

It's funny, conservative commentators use that line a lot too. "Please though, keep an open mind and read my book before making any judgement". Well how beneficial it is to the author that every person must buy their book.


The article was actually an excerpt from her book. And while she did write that part you need to put it into the whole context of the whole book. And the WSJ chose the title, not her.

For example:

US Allows Slavery! Citizens must return slaves to their owners
An excerpt from the US Constitution, Article IV Section 2
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.


I'm pretty sure most people would agree that excerpt is missing some context.
Valashu
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands561 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 17:52:36
January 18 2011 17:42 GMT
#523
On January 09 2011 08:33 shindigs wrote:
Wall Street Journal published an article titled "Why Chinese mothers are superior" which basically outlines why Asian mothers (or just strict mothers) breed successful kids through methods that would be considered harsh to other parents' standards. The term "Chinese mothers" is used loosley to describe extremely strict mothers of all nationalities (pretty funny that the article starts out as "I'M NOT RACIST BUT...")

Context for the lazy:
The author is Chinese and a professor at Yale Law School
I believe her kids are only half Asian

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

+ Show Spoiler +
By AMY CHUA

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:

View Full Image

Erin Patrice O'Brien for The Wall Street Journal
Amy Chua with her daughters, Louisa and Sophia, at their home in New Haven, Conn.




• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term "Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.

View Full Image

Chua family
From Ms. Chua's album: 'Mean me with Lulu in hotel room... with score taped to TV!'

All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.

Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50 Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.


When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success - or so the stereotype goes. WSJ's Christina Tsuei speaks to two moms raised by Chinese immigrants who share what it was like growing up and how they hope to raise their children.

More Parenting Videos

Teaching Math to Spark Creative Thinking

Can Bilingualism Make Preschoolers Smarter?

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice, practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in America. Once a child starts to excel at something—whether it's math, piano, pitching or ballet—he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once when I was young—maybe more than once—when I was extremely disrespectful to my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless or feel like a piece of garbage.

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests.

The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem unimaginable—even legally actionable—to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, "Hey fatty—lose some weight." By contrast, Western parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)

Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed about how their kids turned out.

I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and Western parental mind-sets.


Chua family
Newborn Amy Chua in her mother's arms, a year after her parents arrived in the U.S.

Weigh in

Amy Chua will answer readers' questions Thursday on Review's new blog, Ideas Market.

Write to: IdeasMarket@wsj.com.

First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.

For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's credentials.

If a Chinese child gets a B—which would never happen—there would first be a screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A.

Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the home.)

View Full Image

Chua family
Sophia playing at Carnegie Hall in 2007.

Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.

By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.

Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God help any Chinese kid who tried that one.

Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children. It's just an entirely different parenting model.

Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really cute—you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with its master—but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.

Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart. Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off.

"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.

"You can't make me."

"Oh yes, I can."

Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."

I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.

Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together—her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing—just like that.

Read More

In China, Not All Practice Tough Love
The Juggle: Are U.S. Parents Too Soft?
Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.

"Mommy, look—it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed, and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu—it's so spunky and so her."

Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can do something you thought you couldn't.

There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly. I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different idea of how to do that.

Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.

—Amy Chua is a professor at Yale Law School and author of "Day of Empire" and "World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred and Global Instability." This essay is excerpted from "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua, to be published Tuesday by the Penguin Press, a member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright © 2011 by Amy Chua.


EDIT:
Here is the wiki page on the author: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Chua
According to wikipedia, there has a bit of negative feedback to the article so its not universally accepted by the Asian community.



I take it all back, people put this into words better than I have.

The superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid exercising his superior skill.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
January 18 2011 18:17 GMT
#524
On January 19 2011 02:11 random user wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 05:14 Lefnui wrote:
On January 17 2011 16:50 random user wrote:
I don't think she's backpedeling.

The subtitle of the book is:

This was supposed to be a story of how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones. But instead it’s about a bitter clash of cultures, a fleeting taste of glory, and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old.

She also did state that she didn't pick the title for the WSJ article.

Without actually reading the book, I don't feel qualified to say what I think she actually meant to say, but I think unless you have actually read the book, you might want to try and keep an open mind.

That's nonsense. "What she actually meant to say"? How about reading the words she wrote? There's no reason to assume that she misspoke or misrepresented her own views. She wrote an entire article on the subject, how is that not enough to judge?

It's funny, conservative commentators use that line a lot too. "Please though, keep an open mind and read my book before making any judgement". Well how beneficial it is to the author that every person must buy their book.


The article was actually an excerpt from her book. And while she did write that part you need to put it into the whole context of the whole book. And the WSJ chose the title, not her.

For example:

US Allows Slavery! Citizens must return slaves to their owners
An excerpt from the US Constitution, Article IV Section 2
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.


I'm pretty sure most people would agree that excerpt is missing some context.

That is a terrible comparison.

There's absolutely no reason for you to assume that people are judging the title alone and not the article. Of course it would help to read the entire book, but it's not necessary to make a judgement. This is as ridiculous as when Rush Limbaugh claims that you have to play his entire hours-long radio show to put his comments in context.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
January 18 2011 18:27 GMT
#525
Sooooo true. But i dont care this world is going to shit anyway im happy with Bs and Cs
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 23:47:10
January 18 2011 23:43 GMT
#526
On January 18 2011 05:14 Lefnui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 16:50 random user wrote:
I don't think she's backpedeling.

The subtitle of the book is:

This was supposed to be a story of how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones. But instead it’s about a bitter clash of cultures, a fleeting taste of glory, and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old.

She also did state that she didn't pick the title for the WSJ article.

Without actually reading the book, I don't feel qualified to say what I think she actually meant to say, but I think unless you have actually read the book, you might want to try and keep an open mind.

That's nonsense. "What she actually meant to say"? How about reading the words she wrote? There's no reason to assume that she misspoke or misrepresented her own views. She wrote an entire article on the subject, how is that not enough to judge?

It's funny, conservative commentators use that line a lot too. "Please though, keep an open mind and read my book before making any judgement". Well how beneficial it is to the author that every person must buy their book.

The article is several non-conjoined excerpts from her book, where ultimately she decides her methods (as excerpted in the article) were not the best for her children, especially when her youngest child rebels. She did not choose the article's title, and in fact her book suggests the opposite. If you don't feel like an judgmental asshole by now, you should.
typedef struct
Profile Joined January 2011
United States84 Posts
January 18 2011 23:45 GMT
#527
This commentary is probably better than the article
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
January 18 2011 23:46 GMT
#528
On January 19 2011 03:17 Lefnui wrote:
That is a terrible comparison.

There's absolutely no reason for you to assume that people are judging the title alone and not the article. Of course it would help to read the entire book, but it's not necessary to make a judgement. This is as ridiculous as when Rush Limbaugh claims that you have to play his entire hours-long radio show to put his comments in context.

If Rush Limbaugh is describing a viewpoint he once had, and then explaining why he no longer holds such an extreme viewpoint, and if someone simply quoted the beginning portion, then yes, you fucking need context to properly judge her opinion.
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
January 19 2011 01:04 GMT
#529
On January 10 2011 12:15 BraveGhost wrote:
Some people seem to be defending the article by saying.. well you aren't providing sources that say a western upbringing is better. Look at all these fancy stats at how much better China is in math etc etc. Well.. I don't care, your basing success on "results", the fact is, it's borderline, if not is, child abuse. Also, I consider life to be pretty much a 1 time deal(I don't believe in reincarnation), who wants to spend 98% of their time from birth to death working , first in school, then at work..... sure, if someone told me I could work 80 hours a week, for 5 years, I am guaranteed to live to 85, have as much money as I want, and never have to work again, I would do it. But sadly, this is not the case.. and therefore, people need to relax and live a little. If you truly think this is a successful method of parenting, and living, then why are you on a starcraft forum. I don't see how this is advancing your goal of becoming 100% robot whatsoever, it's a completely irrelevant activity in the big picture of 100% work, 0% play.

Imagine for a moment you growing up, your not allowed to have friends, and you work 150% constantly. All you have is your parents, you have to succeed or you are called a piece of shit, a failure, etc. What the fuck do you do when they expect more than what you can give them?

Life is really god damn short, you'll realize this when you have people really close to you pass away... at any age. The sooner you figure it out the better. Take some time, play some games, hang out with those that you love and like. Go on vacation with your family, see the world.

Success is not 100% based on money... and school grades, and how you did in piano class. Success imo is based mostly on happiness. Sure... money helps, but being able to do what you want as a career, being what you dreamed of being when you were young..... having a family ( or just getting laid.. whatever you personally want that makes you happy)... anything, that will make you happy.. is success.

Success to me is much different then being brain washed, told to work 100%, make lots of money, don't play cause I was told it was wrong.

If you spend 100% of your time here working and making yourself a success, and then you die before you can retire or have children, or whatever.... what will you have accomplished?


All work and no play, makes for a dull day... Like i've said before, maybe Im a little idealistic, but I am really sad for this ladies kids, and it saddens me more to see people defending these parents actions and justifying it simply by saying, well... they make more money and have better grades.


This lady got a bit of a twisted definition of success. Seems to be entirely motivated by money. Good grades? I got good grades throughout school. 99% of what I learned is useless. Why would I ever want to play a musical instrument? When would that ever be useful? I sucked at math until college. Asian genes kicked in and it was cake. Graduated now, I never use any of it.

Any kid can be molded. Some sports atheletes or singers are often strictly guided by parents. It's not talent or genius. Just lots of strict parenting. A lot of these people often mention they've "been doing this since they were kids." Michael Jackson anyone? That guy grew up resenting the hell out of his father. It's different if the kid WANTS to sing/dance and parents helped them along. It's entirely different when you're forcing it.

That said I do believe she is in over her head. It's good to be strict and guide your kids, but she's overdoing it. Joe Jackson overdoing possibly lol. She's just molding them into what she want's them to be instead of they want to be. But I guess if you do it early enough and remove all "distractions" then you can make them want to be what you want them to be. Raising robots.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 22:34:42
January 19 2011 22:34 GMT
#530
On January 19 2011 08:43 domovoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2011 05:14 Lefnui wrote:
On January 17 2011 16:50 random user wrote:
I don't think she's backpedeling.

The subtitle of the book is:

This was supposed to be a story of how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones. But instead it’s about a bitter clash of cultures, a fleeting taste of glory, and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old.

She also did state that she didn't pick the title for the WSJ article.

Without actually reading the book, I don't feel qualified to say what I think she actually meant to say, but I think unless you have actually read the book, you might want to try and keep an open mind.

That's nonsense. "What she actually meant to say"? How about reading the words she wrote? There's no reason to assume that she misspoke or misrepresented her own views. She wrote an entire article on the subject, how is that not enough to judge?

It's funny, conservative commentators use that line a lot too. "Please though, keep an open mind and read my book before making any judgement". Well how beneficial it is to the author that every person must buy their book.

The article is several non-conjoined excerpts from her book, where ultimately she decides her methods (as excerpted in the article) were not the best for her children, especially when her youngest child rebels. She did not choose the article's title, and in fact her book suggests the opposite. If you don't feel like an judgmental asshole by now, you should.

A 'judgement asshole', that's a new one. She wrote the article, if it misrepresents her own views then that's her fault. Yes, we know she didn't choose the title, you're only about the 100th person to mention that. If you don't feel like an idiot by now, you should.

On January 19 2011 08:46 domovoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2011 03:17 Lefnui wrote:
That is a terrible comparison.

There's absolutely no reason for you to assume that people are judging the title alone and not the article. Of course it would help to read the entire book, but it's not necessary to make a judgement. This is as ridiculous as when Rush Limbaugh claims that you have to play his entire hours-long radio show to put his comments in context.

If Rush Limbaugh is describing a viewpoint he once had, and then explaining why he no longer holds such an extreme viewpoint, and if someone simply quoted the beginning portion, then yes, you fucking need context to properly judge her opinion.

One huge exception: She wrote the article. This isn't someone else quoting her, as in your example.
craz3d
Profile Joined August 2005
Bulgaria856 Posts
January 19 2011 22:39 GMT
#531
On January 09 2011 09:07 Half wrote:
This Article is a joke. Do you think an Asian parent would have fostered Mark Zucklebergs odd interests in computers, before the dotcom boom of the 2000s? That an asian parent would have allowed Bill Gates to drop out of College? No they wouldn't have, and now there children call these men boss.


I fully agree with this.
Hello World!
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 22:49:41
January 19 2011 22:46 GMT
#532
On January 20 2011 07:34 Lefnui wrote:
One huge exception: She wrote the article. This isn't someone else quoting her, as in your example.

They're excerpts from her book. It is exactly like someone quoting her out of context. In fact, it's not just one excerpt, it's several excerpts from the first half of the book quoting some of the more extreme and tongue-in-cheek portions (which is somewhat apparent from the face of the article (e.g. literally impossible for her daughter to not get an A), but is much more apparent within the context of the book).
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
January 19 2011 22:56 GMT
#533
On January 20 2011 07:46 domovoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2011 07:34 Lefnui wrote:
One huge exception: She wrote the article. This isn't someone else quoting her, as in your example.

They're excerpts from her book. It is exactly like someone quoting her out of context. In fact, it's not just one excerpt, it's several excerpts from the first half of the book quoting some of the more extreme and tongue-in-cheek portions (which is somewhat apparent from the face of the article (e.g. literally impossible for her daughter to not get an A), but is much more apparent within the context of the book).

Yes, we all understand. Stop stating the obvious. They are excerpts from her book. She did not come up with the title. We know. And guess who the author of the article is? It's Amy Chua, so if it misrepresents her views then that's on her.

That's why your comparison makes no sense. In your comparison it is someone else quoting Limbaugh, but that's not the case here.
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-19 23:08:11
January 19 2011 22:59 GMT
#534
On January 20 2011 07:56 Lefnui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2011 07:46 domovoi wrote:
On January 20 2011 07:34 Lefnui wrote:
One huge exception: She wrote the article. This isn't someone else quoting her, as in your example.

They're excerpts from her book. It is exactly like someone quoting her out of context. In fact, it's not just one excerpt, it's several excerpts from the first half of the book quoting some of the more extreme and tongue-in-cheek portions (which is somewhat apparent from the face of the article (e.g. literally impossible for her daughter to not get an A), but is much more apparent within the context of the book).

Yes, we all understand. Stop stating the obvious. They are excerpts from her book. She did not come up with the title. We know. And guess who the author of the article is? It's Amy Chua, so if it misrepresents her views then that's on her.

That's why your comparison makes no sense. In your comparison it is someone else quoting Limbaugh, but that's not the case here.

Wow, do you not know the definition of "excerpt"? This is essentially the WSJ quoting Chua. Apparently Chua was not aware that the WSJ would excerpt her book in a way that makes it sound like: (1) she is trying to give advice to other parents, (2) her description is to be taken at face value rather than interpreted as somewhat tongue-in-cheek, (3) that she never disclaimed the overly strict methodology. None of which is true.

It's possible Chua wanted the article to misrepresent her work, in order to garner controversy and additional book sales. But all of this is rather irrelevant. You're still a judgmental asshole for continuing to think the article represents her current views, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
January 19 2011 23:06 GMT
#535
On January 20 2011 07:59 domovoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 20 2011 07:56 Lefnui wrote:
On January 20 2011 07:46 domovoi wrote:
On January 20 2011 07:34 Lefnui wrote:
One huge exception: She wrote the article. This isn't someone else quoting her, as in your example.

They're excerpts from her book. It is exactly like someone quoting her out of context. In fact, it's not just one excerpt, it's several excerpts from the first half of the book quoting some of the more extreme and tongue-in-cheek portions (which is somewhat apparent from the face of the article (e.g. literally impossible for her daughter to not get an A), but is much more apparent within the context of the book).

Yes, we all understand. Stop stating the obvious. They are excerpts from her book. She did not come up with the title. We know. And guess who the author of the article is? It's Amy Chua, so if it misrepresents her views then that's on her.

That's why your comparison makes no sense. In your comparison it is someone else quoting Limbaugh, but that's not the case here.

Wow, do you not know the definition of "excerpt"? This is essentially the WSJ quoting Chua. Apparently Chua was not aware that the WSJ would excerpt her book in a way that makes it sound like: (1) she is trying to give advice to other parents, (2) her description is to be taken at face value rather than interpreted as somewhat tongue-in-cheek, (3) that she never disclaimed the overly strict methodology.

Yes I do, have any other stupid questions to pose? She is given as the author. I'm not extremely familiar with the procedure of a journal but I would be utterly shocked if she was not involved. I'm pretty sure the WSJ can't just publish a collection of excerpts, cite her as the author, and have absolutely no contact with her about it. I guarantee she either selected the excerpts or approved of the way in which they were given.

Again, as I tried to explain to you, if it misrepresents her views then it's her own fault.
MrBob
Profile Joined November 2009
93 Posts
January 19 2011 23:09 GMT
#536
Chua obviously consented to it being published. You can't just publish portions of people's speeches/works and take them out of context in order to make someone look bad without getting sued (see Shirley Sherrod). She probably just published it to advertise her book, and it's working damned well.
Who can troll the past can troll the future. Who can troll the present can troll the past.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
January 19 2011 23:14 GMT
#537
On January 20 2011 08:09 MrBob wrote:
Chua obviously consented to it being published. You can't just publish portions of people's speeches/works and take them out of context in order to make someone look bad without getting sued (see Shirley Sherrod). She probably just published it to advertise her book, and it's working damned well.

Thank you.
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
January 19 2011 23:15 GMT
#538
On January 20 2011 08:06 Lefnui wrote:
Again, as I tried to explain to you, if it misrepresents her views then it's her own fault.

Fine, let's assume that is true. It's completely irrelevant, because this is your stated position:
There's no reason to assume that she misspoke or misrepresented her own views. She wrote an entire article on the subject, how is that not enough to judge?

Of course it would help to read the entire book, but it's not necessary to make a judgement.

In fact, there is every reason to think the excerpt, whether deliberately or not, misrepresents her actual views as stated in the book. This is easily evidenced by, I don't know, actually reading the fucking book, or since you're the kind of person who doesn't have much use for book-lurnin', how about actually reading her own comments on the book and the article?
domovoi
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1478 Posts
January 19 2011 23:16 GMT
#539
On January 20 2011 08:09 MrBob wrote:
Chua obviously consented to it being published. You can't just publish portions of people's speeches/works and take them out of context in order to make someone look bad without getting sued (see Shirley Sherrod). She probably just published it to advertise her book, and it's working damned well.

Yes, obviously she consented to having her book excerpted, it was probably her idea. But judging from her subsequent comments, it doesn't seem like she knew it would be excerpted in such a fashion.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
January 19 2011 23:19 GMT
#540
On January 20 2011 08:15 domovoi wrote:
or since you're the kind of person who doesn't have much use for book-lurnin'

Clearly you're just 'flaming' me. I've attempted to explain a very simple concept to you a number of times now. It seems like it's beyond you, so I'm done.
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 310
BeSt 168
TY 147
Leta 130
Zeus 85
ToSsGirL 60
Hyun 54
NotJumperer 49
sorry 46
Sacsri 35
[ Show more ]
Bale 14
Sharp 10
Dota 2
XcaliburYe135
League of Legends
JimRising 507
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K554
Super Smash Bros
Westballz29
Other Games
summit1g8351
singsing1258
ceh9580
Hui .92
NeuroSwarm41
Happy24
SortOf23
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL3964
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH258
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt761
• Jankos445
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
2h 28m
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
7h 28m
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
Big Brain Bouts
7h 28m
Iba vs GgMaChine
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Reynor vs Classic
Serral vs Clem
BSL Team Wars
10h 28m
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
10h 28m
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
Code For Giants Cup
13h 58m
SC Evo League
1d 3h
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
1d 7h
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 9h
SC Evo League
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiGosaur Monday
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.