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United States24670 Posts
On November 02 2010 19:45 emythrel wrote:
I don't know why Americans are so afraid of socialism..... we have socialised medicine and guess what.... i've never had to live with an illness or medical problem because i couldn't afford treatment..... i pay a small amount in tax and get a hell of a lot back. Whenever you have a certain type of system ingrained into a large country, there is going to be a lot of resistance getting it changed for a variety of reasons. Also, the USA is much bigger so what works for your country would probably not work for ours in the same form.
On the statue of liberty it says "give me your hungry, your poor" hate to tell you this ladies and gents.... but thats a socialist statement right there. America is supposed to be the dream, the place you can go to live a better life...... not a place driven by fear of change, fear of people, and the opportunity to be shot at any point during your day.
What do you think the USA is really like...?
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On November 02 2010 19:45 emythrel wrote:
not a place driven by fear of change, fear of people, and the opportunity to be shot at any point during your day.
Uh... what?
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American dream is over, was only real while the fake overconsumption/waste economy was thriving.
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Can't wait for the delicious UK newspaper headlines tomorrow.
"MORONS VOTE FOR IDIOTS, AGAIN!"
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On November 02 2010 20:55 AeroGear wrote:
American dream is over, was only real while the fake overconsumption/waste economy was thriving.
An optimist I see.
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1. I love TL, just the economic debate in this thread made the whole thing worth reading.
2. Our country is based on an adversarial political system. This is a good thing. It helps drive us towards the center, where most American's political values lie. It has been shown time and again when one party controls the executive and legislative that that party tends to overreach (either to the right or left) and causes a backlash. It was also inevitable that the Republicans would bounce back in the mid term due to the amount of moderate Democrats that got elected on the coattails of President Obama in traditionally conservative districts.
3. I'm thinking Republicans take back the house (but not to the extent of their last majority) and fall short two seats in the Senate. This sets up an interesting dynamic where the House can pass all sorts of legislation and then portray the Senate and White House as obstructionists. My concern is that they'll take a win of 40 of 50 seats as a "mandate" when it really isn't. At this point, the American public is tired of the lack of compromise they see in Washington while their lives get worse and worse. If the Republicans think they can just run out the clock to 2012 I think they will not like the consequences.
4. Either way, if you're a Republican (like me), Democrat, Green Party, Libertarian, Communist  go out and take part in the political process. The only way it gets better is if citizens participate. Voting, volunteering for a campaign, writing/calling your representatives, writing an opinion piece, these are all how you can make the system better. Also remember, even if you didn't vote for the guy/gal that represents you in whatever political office they still work for you. You are still their constituent and it's important to make sure they know that.
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On November 02 2010 19:47 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 19:45 emythrel wrote:
I don't know why Americans are so afraid of socialism..... we have socialised medicine and guess what.... i've never had to live with an illness or medical problem because i couldn't afford treatment..... i pay a small amount in tax and get a hell of a lot back. Whenever you have a certain type of system ingrained into a large country, there is going to be a lot of resistance getting it changed for a variety of reasons. Also, the USA is much bigger so what works for your country would probably not work for ours in the same form. Show nested quote +On the statue of liberty it says "give me your hungry, your poor" hate to tell you this ladies and gents.... but thats a socialist statement right there. America is supposed to be the dream, the place you can go to live a better life...... not a place driven by fear of change, fear of people, and the opportunity to be shot at any point during your day. What do you think the USA is really like...?
read this thread. what image of america would you get judging it by the inhabitants voicing their opinion in this thread? id be horrified for even one person announcing to vote anything other than democrat, but from what ive read my estimate is that around 50% of people are not voting democrat at all, when it is as obvious as it can be that republicans ran the u.s. into the ditch and democrates were unable to realize their best efforts to pull it back out because republican/corporate interests, despite their staggering loss in 2008, still have more than enough power to stall, block and obstruct anything they want.
the reason the democrats "havent done anything" is because they dont have enough power, yet what people are going to do is taking power away from them. you have short-sighted people everywhere, but only in america are they responsible for the leadership of the most powerful country on earth, screwing up big time and being proud of their country on top of it.
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On November 02 2010 22:05 ey215 wrote:
Our country is based on an adversarial political system. This is a good thing. It helps drive us towards the center, where most American's political values lie.
Haven't you noticed how polarized the country is and how shockingly bad the dialogue has been? US politics are fundamentally sensationalist and the result is that issues are never properly discussed and progress is rarely made.
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Went and voted. My state's apparently a tossup according to the NYT, though 538 has it with a high chance of a GOP victory in both the Senate and House.
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the reason the democrats "havent done anything" is because they dont have enough power
Oh they've done plenty, which is the problem.
And yes, as baffling it is for you to comprehend -- most Americans do not want to become more like you, and more like Europe. I know, crazy.
Btw, please work on your spelling and knowledge of American politics before attempting to make a coherent argument. You can start by learning who's run Congress since 2006, and by finding a single piece of legislation that O and the D's haven't been able to ram through (despite Republican and public opposition).
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On November 02 2010 10:15 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
GDP has nothing to do with unemployment, or wealth creation.
Tee hee. Generally you need jobs to produce goods and services. That's one of THE most hilarious things I've read on this forum.
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On November 02 2010 22:35 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 22:05 ey215 wrote:
Our country is based on an adversarial political system. This is a good thing. It helps drive us towards the center, where most American's political values lie. Haven't you noticed how polarized the country is and how shockingly bad the dialogue has been? US politics are fundamentally sensationalist and the result is that issues are never properly discussed and progress is rarely made.
Yeah it's been terrible lately... the republicans know it's quite easy to get a good chunk of their voter base to rally against a black democrat. Forget any philosophical differences...
I really don't think there will be nearly as huge of a backlash against Dems as people think. The TeaBaggers will scare aware a lot of moderate voters. The TeaBaggers are a whacky ass offshoot of the right, just like socialists are a bunch of really crazy fuckers from the left.
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On November 02 2010 22:48 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 22:35 McDonalds wrote:On November 02 2010 22:05 ey215 wrote:
Our country is based on an adversarial political system. This is a good thing. It helps drive us towards the center, where most American's political values lie. Haven't you noticed how polarized the country is and how shockingly bad the dialogue has been? US politics are fundamentally sensationalist and the result is that issues are never properly discussed and progress is rarely made. Yeah it's been terrible lately... the republicans know it's quite easy to get a good chunk of their voter base to rally against a black democrat. Forget any philosophical differences... I really don't think there will be nearly as huge of a backlash against Dems as people think. The TeaBaggers will scare aware a lot of moderate voters. The TeaBaggers are a whacky ass offshoot of the right, just like socialists are a bunch of really crazy fuckers from the left.
So ironic it should be satire:
Poster agrees with how poor the dialogue has been; proceeds to smear the policy-driven people he opposes with sexual epithet name-calling and unsubstantiated charges of racism.
Sanity, 2010.
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On November 02 2010 21:05 Lexpar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 20:55 AeroGear wrote:
American dream is over, was only real while the fake overconsumption/waste economy was thriving. An optimist I see.
Its not about being optimistic or not, even in Canada we are regarded as one of the nation who produces the most waste and consumes the most energy. The days of living well at the detriment of every other poor nations are numbered. I'll stop there as it is pretty much off topic.
As for the midterms, well I'm not sure who will win most out of it, I think everyone agress that democrats will lose a lot of ground. Whatever happens in the US, will most likely have an impact on Canada, its a shame Harper is still in place and will most likely be again once elections take place over here >_<
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On November 02 2010 22:55 Losticus wrote:
mindless drivel
Do you have any coherent opinions to offer or salient points to make, or are you just here to regurgitate Tea Party talking points?
I'm asking seriously, it seems impossible to have any actual civil discourse with a Tea Party member because this is all they do - parrot the same nonsense their candidates are spewing in attack ads.
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On November 02 2010 22:17 enzym wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 19:47 micronesia wrote:On November 02 2010 19:45 emythrel wrote:
I don't know why Americans are so afraid of socialism..... we have socialised medicine and guess what.... i've never had to live with an illness or medical problem because i couldn't afford treatment..... i pay a small amount in tax and get a hell of a lot back. Whenever you have a certain type of system ingrained into a large country, there is going to be a lot of resistance getting it changed for a variety of reasons. Also, the USA is much bigger so what works for your country would probably not work for ours in the same form. On the statue of liberty it says "give me your hungry, your poor" hate to tell you this ladies and gents.... but thats a socialist statement right there. America is supposed to be the dream, the place you can go to live a better life...... not a place driven by fear of change, fear of people, and the opportunity to be shot at any point during your day. What do you think the USA is really like...? read this thread. what image of america would you get judging it by the inhabitants voicing their opinion in this thread? id be horrified for even one person announcing to vote anything other than democrat, but from what ive read my estimate is that around 50% of people are not voting democrat at all, when it is as obvious as it can be that republicans ran the u.s. into the ditch and democrates were unable to realize their best efforts to pull it back out because republican/corporate interests, despite their staggering loss in 2008, still have more than enough power to stall, block and obstruct anything they want. the reason the democrats "havent done anything" is because they dont have enough power, yet what people are going to do is taking power away from them. you have short-sighted people everywhere, but only in america are they responsible for the leadership of the most powerful country on earth, screwing up big time and being proud of their country on top of it.
How does any of that produce an image of people randomly getting shot at in the U.S.? Also, republicans and democrats are two sides of the same coin. Our political system is basically an elephant and a donkey skull &#^*ing each others brains out in a 69 position. Sure theres hate, sure they're trying to obliterate the other's brain, but in the end they're still making love, and i'm the one that gets screwed. That is the image you should have of the U.S.
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On November 02 2010 10:15 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:06 red_b wrote:On November 02 2010 09:43 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
And by clean up their mess you mean create unemployment that lasted for 30 years after the depression ended, and extended the great depression by 7 years. It's your memory that is extremely short.
Einsteins definition of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting different results. If Obama wants to do the same as FDR, I expect the depression to last longer and for unemployment to extend into the far future (2050 assuming history repeats itself). You are demonstrably wrong: ![[image loading]](http://www.urbandigs.com/great-depression-gdp.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.djindexes.com/mdsidx/images/avgimages/graph1930-1939.gif) ![[image loading]](http://www.economicshelp.org/uploaded_images/Gdp-us-20-40-767020.jpg) FDR took over in 1933. Get the fuck over it, you're wrong, period, end of story. Take a look at reality and reevaluate how you can be so utterly wrong. Hoover and his bunch of idiot libertarians did nothing and it blew up spectacularly in their faces. Keynesian economics was so right it is STILL the predominant economic theory, albeit it has at this point basically merged with neoclassical economics. Where the fuck did you learn economics? Your dad? Your basketball coach in high school? When I talk to libertarians, it is like my own personal version of Heart of Darkness. I come face to face with pure, unadulterated idiocy and stare it in the face. GDP has nothing to do with unemployment, or wealth creation. GDP =CGI, consumer spending, government and investment. Decrease consumer spending and investment and increase government, the population is poorer, but GDP goes up. Amazing how math works. What you demonstrated is absolutely nothing. I never said that Hoover did anything right. But if you want to explain how Keynes didn't create 10 year of unemployement and depression when his policy was used, that is entirely up to you.
Got to disagree with you there, GDP reflects consumer spending and therefore employment rates and economic stability.
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On November 02 2010 22:35 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 22:05 ey215 wrote:
Our country is based on an adversarial political system. This is a good thing. It helps drive us towards the center, where most American's political values lie. Haven't you noticed how polarized the country is and how shockingly bad the dialogue has been? US politics are fundamentally sensationalist and the result is that issues are never properly discussed and progress is rarely made.
Despite what the media likes to tell you, we've been a polarized country for decades if not centuries. Hence, adversarial. We're a huge country made up of people from all types of backgrounds that all have varying valid ideas of what "progress" is.
Republicans like to look back at the Reagan years and talk about how he was able to bring the country together, Democrats like to point towards Clinton, or even JFK. This is nostalgia. Things were highly polarized in those times as well. I would argue that this is part of the reason that we have a history of mid term elections going to the opposition party.
The media likes to point towards, well really themselves, and talk about how polarized the country is. Well, Jon Stewart was right at his rally. People from all political backgrounds work together, play together, celebrate and mourn together on a daily basis. We're not defined by being Republicans or Democrats we're defined by being people first. A large portion of this country tends to skew slightly left of center socially and slightly right of center fiscally. We believe in "live and let live" and helping our neighbors, but also want to work for what we get and spend our money as we see fit.
Our political system is not designed to allow sweeping change or "progress". It's designed to have the hot headed House offset by the more measured Senate with the Judicial and Executive branches thrown in to keep things honest. Checks and Balances and Separation of Powers helps us avoid tyranny by the majority and allows for measured adaptation as times change. Does it slow us down sometimes (Civil Rights comes to mind) yes, but it allows for the greater good.
The beauty of our political system really comes down to one thing, the Constitution is a living breathing document that evolves constantly, even if not amended because of how it is interpreted. For all of their faults, the founders sure got that thing right.
Ultimately, it comes down to this. We've been in worse places than we are now. We've been more polarized than we are now (Civil War anyone?), and we'll come through this at the end. There will be other challenges facing us in the future and we can overcome that as well. The polarization comes in how exactly to proceed and varying opinions is a good thing not bad.
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Just voted straight democrat. It's sad that whatever happens there is no chance to avoid political gridlock.
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EPT
