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So I've lived in and around new england for my entire life, the majority of it in connecticut, and Ive always wanted to experience an internet cafe like the ones they have in korea.
But the problem is, in my location there really isnt any cafe's within 2 hours of me.
Even more interesting, when doing a google search, most of the e-cafe's that came up had closed down, many after just a few months of being open and a few that had been going for a long time closing down when the economy got bad.
Of a list of 5 or so internet cafes in Connecticut, 3 no longer exist, and the ones that do are either card shops with a few computers on the side, or console-only centers.
So this got me thinking, why does the internet cafe model, that has gripped so many people in asia and some parts of europe, simply not work in America?
I've always wanted to open an internet cafe in my area because the city i live in is between Greenwich and Darien Connecticut, which are 2 of the wealthiest suburbs in the world, my location would be near the town center/mall which is the hangout spot for every teen that lives in these two towns, and there really isn't any internet cafes within 50 miles.
But after viewing the fates of some other businesses that had the same things going for them, Im really skeptical if the model could even possibly be successful here.
Basically what I'm asking is
1. Can you see an Internet Cafe being successful in american society?
And
2. Why doesn't this model of business, that attracts so many customers in Asia, work for the many people who have tried it here? What are Cafe owners here doing wrong?
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No. It cost a ton of money to start up (buy the rigs, update constantly, install games + possibly buying individual keys for each) and if you don't take off quickly, you are screwed. They are rarely profitable.
It's also limited to a fairly small demographic. Sure, there's a lot of gamers who work full time and shit. You think we wanna go to a place where a bunch of retarded 13 year olds screaming out 4chan memes are gonna be hanging out in large groups?? People in lan centers are terrible.
Gaming is also going to the consoles. What console-specific games are there that would draw enough of a crowd to warrant you buying keys for some 25-30 machines??? There's not very many. If the game has a console counterpart, more people probably play that. It's a lot cheaper just to buy a console and play there than to splurge your money on the desktop version of Battlefield BC2.
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I think it's a combination of:
1. Americans have more disposable income to buy their own gaming computers, and
2. Europe/Asia have good public transportation that allows kids to get to internet cafes without their parents.
I don't think opening one in a suburban area is going to work very well, especially in a rich area where gamers already own good computers.
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some semi-uninformed guesses:
1. USA has much lower population density than Asia. This applies much less in some of the coastal urban areas, but generally this means smaller potential markets for each location.
2. This one is more conjecture based on things I've read, but I think the US households much more commonly have desktop computers. Home PCs were invented here and Microsoft's massive marketing campaign in the 90s with Windows 95 etc led very quickly to the median household having one.
Also, and I don't know if this applies as much for Korea, but I've read that in Japan, culturally computers are viewed more as an appliance and so gaming on computers as opposed to dedicated (console) systems is even more of a niche market.
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There was a surge of them opening up about 8 years ago. I used to go to internet cafes and had lots of fun. But I think the two salient factors that prevent their presence nowadays in mass are 1) the nerd stigma associated with computer gaming and 2) the dominance of console gaming.
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There are a few in new York city, but I suppose that's why it's in a city. Generally a more rural area in the west wouldn't have it because of the reasons said above. The costs would be too much and the interest is probably small since most people would have their own computer, or have some other gaming system. That's the way I see it anyway. The more populated an area is, the better off it could be making itself into a running business.
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On September 10 2010 05:22 rgfdxm wrote:
some semi-uninformed guesses:
1. USA has much lower population density than Asia. This applies much less in some of the coastal urban areas, but generally this means smaller potential markets for each location.
2. This one is more conjecture based on things I've read, but I think the US households much more commonly have desktop computers. Home PCs were invented here and Microsoft's massive marketing campaign in the 90s with Windows 95 etc led very quickly to the median household having one.
Also, and I don't know if this applies as much for Korea, but I've read that in Japan, culturally computers are viewed more as an appliance and so gaming on computers as opposed to dedicated (console) systems is even more of a niche market.
I think this is pretty much limited to Japan, with Nintendo as the big factor. What I don't understand is why people in Korea go to PC Bangs when SC1 runs on pretty much any computer.
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there are a bunch of korean style pc bangs in flushing, queens.
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I think that the success of internet cafes in flushing are because of the large asian population and the population density :D
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I'm also from new england. when i told some of my friends i was going to NYC LAN #7 (a TL meetup) they were basically just like... "wat.. ur going somewhere to play video games with other ppl? nerd alert"
its just not in our culture to view video games as a social device, unless ur bro'in out with the bros playing madden or some shit like that
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Lan cafes only target a small demographic and culturally speaking, it is not what most people hold in high regards as an acceptable form of a social entertainment in the US because of issues with social stigma. Unless you find ways to diversify your business and making it acceptable to a larger range of demographic then it will be hard to keep your business afloat.
edit: also in the US, lan cafes run fully on the model that people will come because the games we have on our computers are good but in Asia, they offer special packages such as room service (bed, overnight stay, ramen, etc.), couple packages, game company support by giving in game bonus if played at a lan cafe)
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Hey small world- I'm in New Haven, Connecticut (in Westville, a stone's throw from Yale).
We should totally play sometime! :D
But yeah I would love to see a LAN somewhere. I could repeat what everyone has said above but yeah.. why bother. I wish we did have more internet cafe's and the like.
It'd be a tough sell though in the long haul.
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I'm Korean and I was born/grew up in New York my whole life (Bayside - Flushing Queens). The neighborhood I grew up in is very diverse too. There have been internet cafes around where I live. A lot come and go. They really don't have a stable business. There was once a place called Game Zone Cafe near where I lived. You can purchase beverages/snacks/pastries and ask for a controller and you can sit down and play a console game. Using the PC's were expensive (like $7 dollars an hr) but were high quality at the time.
Recently, this summer, I got to go to Korea with my girlfriend. We stayed in pc rooms time to time. They are much cleaner, cheaper, and more friendlier in Korea. In New York, you have these very punkish kids coming to pc rooms to play. In Korea, you have little elementary kids coming at 7pm to play bubbling looking games, like kart rider and maple story. A lot of Koreans play Aion. The pc rooms are sometimes separated as smoking/non-smoking sections. They even serve snacks which is nice. Prices are cheaper in Korean RELATIVE to the USA. An hr would cost 1000 won, nearly a dollar (~$.80 USD).
Now, answering your question....
1. I believe I can see an Internet Cafe being successful in America. But EXTREMELY hard. Internet Cafe's in Korea work well for a few reasons. The amount of area in Korea is packed. The stores and homes all tightly packed to each other but with lots of people passing by. You will literally see two of the same bakery on the same side of the street. Property is expensive in Korea because of its limited land and growing populations. Most local pc rooms are actually a part of someone's house/apartment. The good thing, theyre open 24 hrs. Night life in Korea is active, but in America, its kinda dead :T People and places aren't so packed in America with so much land. New York City, though, is packed, but property/land is EXTREMELY expensive :T It would be hard to have a successful Internet Cafe in America.
2. Cafe owners here aren't finding the right place to set up an Internet Cafe. Again, finding the right place requires a lot of people, a nice environment of people (like in Korea with kids and adults), and most good places with a lot of people cost a lot :T Internet Cafe's have to be cheap, which would give people the incentive to come, pay, and play with friends. Even arcades, Tekken 6 has been a growing trend in Korea recently. Because of the price and number of people Tekken 6 arcade machines are too expensive and wont bring enough revenue in American Arcades. Playing Tekken 6 in Korea only cost 300 won (~$.28). For me, playing Tekken 6 at a nearby arcade (Peter Pan Gaming) just costs $.50. So if an Hr in Korea is 1000 won ($.80), then proportionally, an Hr in America should be nearly $1.60~1.70. (this is just one perspective of looking at pricing). If an Internet Cafe charged $1.60~1.70 an hr, I would have the incentive to pay and go! Sadly, in America, you wont be able to continue a successful business with just charging $1.60~1.70 an hr :T It wont bring enough money.
If you have an questions that you want to ask me, I'm more than willing to answer 
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On September 10 2010 05:41 ppont wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 05:22 rgfdxm wrote:
some semi-uninformed guesses:
1. USA has much lower population density than Asia. This applies much less in some of the coastal urban areas, but generally this means smaller potential markets for each location.
2. This one is more conjecture based on things I've read, but I think the US households much more commonly have desktop computers. Home PCs were invented here and Microsoft's massive marketing campaign in the 90s with Windows 95 etc led very quickly to the median household having one.
Also, and I don't know if this applies as much for Korea, but I've read that in Japan, culturally computers are viewed more as an appliance and so gaming on computers as opposed to dedicated (console) systems is even more of a niche market. I think this is pretty much limited to Japan, with Nintendo as the big factor. What I don't understand is why people in Korea go to PC Bangs when SC1 runs on pretty much any computer.
In Korea, they like to play together, next to each other and interact. Since it's not expensive, they'll come after school and play. I saw a group of high school/middle school kids in korea, come in, and start playing brood war, while I was playing sc2 beta on the side, ALONE T.T
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I have a simple answer to it and i think it is a major factor to your question. It is that usually in urban areas of east-asia, it is such crowded that people have to live in small houses/appartements. When it comes to leisure activities you simply have to go out. Therefore you just go to an internet cafe instead of staying home and playing/surfing while your parents sit next to u. Europe and the US are different, as there are much more space per person.
Internet Cafe's aren't successful in america and europe, as there's no need to go to an internet cafe, when u have your own computer and your own room.
P.S. I only see internet cafes in City area when I am in japan, tokyo mostly etc. , whenever i go to any suburb or smaller cities/sattelite cities there are no internet cafes.
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I live in a pretty small town, but it does have an internet café.
It's not very big (like 12 computers or something) and it's not that popular. When I go there theres usually like max 2 other dudes there.
I like going there for some change of scenery and talk to other gamers face to face.
Also I play on a laptop so sometimes it's nice to play on a proper monitor  .
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i used to have an awesome computer "arena" by my house. All my middle school friends and I would go there every friday where they had an all night special (10$ for 7pm-7am). We would stay up all night playing counter strike, half life2 and other stupid mods for wc3 and stuff. Some of the greatest moments of my life were inside that pc cafe. However, people in the west can afford a computer and internet alot easier, so the place eventually went out of business because everyone started buying their own computers and such.
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I wouldn't say they aren't successful in all of europe, at least here in sweden they are doing great. In stockholm there are several, one of which(inferno online) afaik is the biggest in europe with over 350 computers and it's always packed, as well as leaving room on the market for other cafés.
I would hardly call stockholm dense in population either, it's a really small city/town, barely 1 million people live here, and barely 8 million live in sweden, it's pretty much a desert in terms of population spread. I'd rather say the success or failure of a internet café depends on the culture. Gaming is very popular in sweden largely due to counter-strike for no apparent reason, it just became popular out of nowhere and is still by FAR the most played game here.
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Yeah it's sad to say how they are not as prominent around here. I live in upstate NY and we use to have a e cafe down the road, and it was pretty cool and all but they just let to many "friends" play for cheap and then it ended up just being the owners friends and stuff playing there for free and a few kids every other day playing rock band or something but for the time it was awesome to have.
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On September 10 2010 06:40 Nihilnovi wrote:
I wouldn't say they aren't successful in all of europe, at least here in sweden they are doing great. In stockholm there are several, one of which(inferno online) afaik is the biggest in europe with over 350 computers and it's always packed, as well as leaving room on the market for other cafés.
I would hardly call stockholm dense in population either, it's a really small city/town, barely 1 million people live here, and barely 8 million live in sweden, it's pretty much a desert in terms of population spread. I'd rather say the success or failure of a internet café depends on the culture. Gaming is very popular in sweden largely due to counter-strike for no apparent reason, it just became popular out of nowhere and is still by FAR the most played game here.
Internet Cafes can be succesful in the west, but it is not camparable to the east-asian internet cafe market. Though your example is great, i doubt that its applicable for all sweden. But one can see from your example is that, if it is possible to build a gaming culture and a niche market for it, internet cafes can be successful.
I am not saying that east-asian internet cafes are running better, btw. I personally believe that internet cafe is a dying business. Because every household has internet nowadays. ...
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In high school I had some friends who would go out to play CS at PC Cafes. I asked them why they would bother to do so, since you can just play at home. They said they liked the feeling of playing with friends, whereas playing CS at home felt more detached. This was also before voice chat though, so I'm sure things have changed with Ventrilo and all that.
If I'm with a bunch of gamer friends and we wanted to play a PC game, we'd think of going to go a PC cafe. I think last year one of my friends and I wanted to play BW so we could see how we play in real life (he was wondering how I was more than 120 APM)... funny enough though, we hit up the PC cafe at 1 AM and there was line until 4 AM, with almost everyone playing DOTA.
If PC Cafes are viewed in the same light as arcades though, then cities don't like them. The famous arcade in my area, Arcade Infinity, is always facing pressure from local homeowners and the city. Arcades encourage gang behavior and decrease land value, they say. It may be difficult to get a license if they have it out for them.
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there are no internet cafes anywhere in your area
trust me i live there
i know
best thing to do is dont associate with those kinds of people
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I remember going to a few LAN centers in the Salt Lake City area when I was in middle school.My buddies and I would play counterstrike and some Warcraft 3 custom games, probably the most fun I had gaming during those times was at LAN centers or internet cafes. Well now 6 years have passed since that time and one of the LAN centers has been driven out of business the other one which also doubles as a hobby shop is still open and surprisingly my friend tells me it always has a good number of people. I always wished that Internet Cafes caught on more here in the states.
On September 10 2010 05:22 Hawk wrote:
It's also limited to a fairly small demographic. Sure, there's a lot of gamers who work full time and shit. You think we wanna go to a place where a bunch of retarded 13 year olds screaming out 4chan memes are gonna be hanging out in large groups?? People in lan centers are terrible.
Hahahaha tell me about it. There are definitely some characters in those LAN centers and surprisingly some people you wouldn't expect to be into PC gaming at Internet cafes. Sometimes one of the regs would threaten to kick you out because you were doing something in the game and the people who actually worked there wouldn't give a shit haha good times.
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In california there are tons of Internet Cafes, I worked at a LAN cafe called PC Bang in Eagle Rock, CA (the original owners were Korean) and it's one of the oldest LAN cafes in existence in the US. The locals have been going there for years and theres usually 15~ kiddies playing HoN and the rest on WoW or SC2. During 2001-2005, LAN centers were at their peak and everyone playing CS.
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I can only give me own experience from a European perspective. In my town there is pretty much one Internet Café that's doing good, and it was doing so mainly becuase of it being heavily marketed to be the place for people playing MtG. I think the main reason is simply, it's not needed, almost every single kid over here owns a laptop if he is into gaming (At least if he is 15+) meaning that you really don't need an internet café. For example, me and my fellow classmates used to play alot to gether, yet we never ever played with each other, other than when we actually were in the same room. After school we would borrow a classroom, set up a projector with a PS2/Gamecube/Xbox/N64 and duke it out, aswell as everyone bringing their laptops playing stuff like. Dota, Heroes 3, Diablo II, BW and Railroad Tycoon (12 player RT? Fuck yea!) It gave us a much better experience than any Internet Café could ever bring.
I will say that playing with someone in the same room is 200 times better than playing apart.
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America seems much more console-focused than other parts of the world (specifically Asia). Even Savannah GA has a successful console "lan" center at the local mall. But I guarantee a PC cafe here would fail miserably.
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There was once a successful LAN center in my area, and it was always super packed when they were only charging 2/hr, now they're charge something closer to 3.50 or 4 and it's a ghost town. The causes and effects, I dunno... =\
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I'm sure there might be more, but I've only ever been aware of two net cafes in Vegas (well dedicated purely to gaming/internet - there are a few food joints that offer a few computers/wifi.)
One is Cybernetics Core, which is run by a Team Liquid member; I've never been, but Kingkosi speaks highly of it. The other was an amazing place that I spent many hours of my childhood, called Cyber X. Was before I was aware of the StarCraft pro-scene, but it was run by a cool Asian guy. Played many hours of StarCraft, WarCraft, Counter Strike and a few other games there. Was a cool place, but guess it wasn't very profitable as it died out 4-5 years ago. 
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On September 10 2010 08:07 So no fek wrote:I'm sure there might be more, but I've only ever been aware of two net cafes in Vegas (well dedicated purely to gaming/internet - there are a few food joints that offer a few computers/wifi.) One is Cybernetics Core, which is run by a Team Liquid member; I've never been, but Kingkosi speaks highly of it. The other was an amazing place that I spent many hours of my childhood, called Cyber X. Was before I was aware of the StarCraft pro-scene, but it was run by a cool Asian guy. Played many hours of StarCraft, WarCraft, Counter Strike and a few other games there. Was a cool place, but guess it wasn't very profitable as it died out 4-5 years ago.
When i went to Las Vegas i actually went to a cyber cafe there called 8wire LAN. This was back when i was addicted to WoW and HAD to log in to get 10 games of arena done so i would get points, even if it was in the middle of my vegas vacation XD.
The place was nice enough, there were 15-20 computers there, but there were only 5 people there when i went, and they were all playing WoW and it looked like they practically lived there and fed off the In-n-out across the street. They were all huge and probably hadnt showered in weeks.
Anyways, i walked in and they were sitting in vent doing some raid and yelling at eachother in vent. Probably the rudest entrance to a store ive ever been in lol XD.
Anyways, thats pretty much the only time ive ever been to a cyber cafe.
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Maybe another reason why internet cafes are big in asia because piracy is also big in asia.
You can get a nice rig decent enough to run sc2 for only around $300.
That includes windows, antivirus, games software, etc.
I'm not saying that all of asia are like this. But some third world countries have high number of internet cafes because starting isn't as expensive as starting it in the US.
Also, most of the internet cafes I've been to are in ghetto areas. Pretty dirty and not very well kept.
Also, a lot of people inside are just hanging out and not playing at all.
Don't be surprised if a couple of people pulls a chair and sits behind you while you play.
So yeah internet cafes pretty much target the poor to middle-class people.
Its just sad to see that people choose to spend their money to play DOTA for an hour instead of buying dinner for their families or for themselves.
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I'm assuming Internet cafes aren't popular in the US because Americans can buy their own computers. Also gaming is not that big there.
edit: plus cost of running one compared to asian internet cafes, yeah.
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There was one in San Diego at Mission Valley mall, but I can't remember the name of it. It had a good location with tons of people and pretty good concession sales on top of it all. In the end, it closed down.
I moved to a large city in KY and there was one cafe, but it closed down after a few years, too.
These cafes simply aren't profitable enough, require lots of capital for such a shitty return, appeals to a limited market, and the wrong market (PCs instead of consoles). The dominance of PC gaming in America is nothing now. Just look at the gaming industry. . . FPSs are no longer mostly being designed on the PC and ported to the console. It is mostly the other way around now, which is fucking outrageous. There are PC exclusives, just not enough PC gamers in America. . . Per capita in developed countries, we probably have the lowest amount of PC gamers and the highest amount of console gamers.
Also, "Internet" or PC cafes were a lot more popular since people not only used PCs to game, but also to check email, chat, browse the web, etc. But now that you can do all that on your phone, that's one less thing the cafe has to offer.
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A few years ago, Internet cafes were fun. Usually alot of people to an extent. Though it was located in Richmond Hill that's pretty much asian populated, it was pretty popular. With a legit arcade nearby, a good korean bbq, etc etc. Good place man.
But now? that internet cafe is preeettyy... dead. The boss that I knew was no longer there, moved to somewhere else and the current internet cafe is pretty shiets. Barely any people now (there's a good amount of people in this one internet cafe in finch and there was another one nearby but it looked so ghetto that no one was there. Though the computers were fucking bomb) Hell, the legit arcade I go to had more people.
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Why go pay money to go listen to other nerds rage and play pirated games when you can do the same in the comfort of your home for free? And the snacks are free(ish) too. I live in western mass, and pc cafe's are pretty rare besides at college.
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Its a social issue. You dont go out to eat because you cant afford to build a kitchen at your house. Same for having PCs at your home in korea.
Culturally here, people don't see a reason to go, which makes it more expensive, which make people less likely to go. and on and on. So, it just doesnt work here for many reasons.
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On September 10 2010 10:42 NIJ wrote:
Its a social issue. You dont go out to eat because you cant afford to build a kitchen at your house. Same for having PCs at your home in korea.
Culturally here, people don't see a reason to go, which makes it more expensive, which make people less likely to go. and on and on. So, it just doesnt work here for many reasons.
This. The main reason why PC Bangs were so popular in Asia (or at least China, where I've been to) is the price. The biggest things for PC Bangs are the free MMOs from random Asian companies. Many people in China usually do not have enough money for crazy computers with high-speed internet. Going to a PC Bang allows them to have all that for a pretty cheap price.
Here, on the other hand, if you enjoy PC gaming chances are you have your own computer with a decent connection. It would make absolutely no sense to pay up to play when you could just play at home or even LAN with your friends. That, and chances are you don't play those free MMOs pretty much means that you have no reason to go to PC Bangs.
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On September 10 2010 12:48 vindKtiv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 10:42 NIJ wrote:
Its a social issue. You dont go out to eat because you cant afford to build a kitchen at your house. Same for having PCs at your home in korea.
Culturally here, people don't see a reason to go, which makes it more expensive, which make people less likely to go. and on and on. So, it just doesnt work here for many reasons. This. The main reason why PC Bangs were so popular in Asia (or at least China, where I've been to) is the price. The biggest things for PC Bangs are the free MMOs from random Asian companies. Many people in China usually do not have enough money for crazy computers with high-speed internet. Going to a PC Bang allows them to have all that for a pretty cheap price. Here, on the other hand, if you enjoy PC gaming chances are you have your own computer with a decent connection. It would make absolutely no sense to pay up to play when you could just play at home or even LAN with your friends. That, and chances are you don't play those free MMOs pretty much means that you have no reason to go to PC Bangs.
I agree as well... It sucks that cyber cafes are pretty much non-existent outside of Asia now. The only cyber cafe left I know in my area is probably euphNET. I'm surprised they've been around since 2002/2003 since so many stores closed down around 2005/2006.
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I went to a PC cafe in Mexico once. Made the mistake of not washing my hands after touching the keyboard.
I got the worst stomach flu in my entire life. Woke up in the middle night and vomited 5 inches from my cousins head.
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On September 10 2010 10:42 NIJ wrote:
Its a social issue. You dont go out to eat because you cant afford to build a kitchen at your house. Same for having PCs at your home in korea.
Culturally here, people don't see a reason to go, which makes it more expensive, which make people less likely to go. and on and on. So, it just doesnt work here for many reasons.
They're all over the place in brazil... my father and I discussed this and came to the same conclusion.
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I'd say that in the Philippines, it's part piracy (I'm willing to bet 95% of WC III installed PCs here are pirated), part price (ever heard of twenty cents per hour of play?) and part internet access (when net is 22$ a month for 1mbps down/500kbps up in a place where the minimum wage per day is 9$; you know the drill).
The largest and best-maintained shops here though charge like 40-50 cents an hour, and somewhere between fifty to a hundred units. They're marketed primarily to yuppies and rich college student bums who play DotA or HoN (many on some competitive level), some raiders from WoW, and the occasional gaming freak who doesn't want to buy x/y/z game but wants to do a single play-through. They also cater to high school and college buddies who want to have a good time together in playing games. Some offer console gaming on XBOX or PS3 with Rock Band / Guitar Hero in parallel with the PC games. I know of only TWO shops who have SC 2.
The typical shop though is something of a mess. Anywhere from 10-25 units at 25-30 cents an hour and caters to the CS and DotA crowd who LOVE TO BET ON GAMES. These bets can run from either "loser pays for game time" matches to series games that will see a hundred dollars or so change hands.
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On September 10 2010 06:07 mangina wrote:I'm Korean and I was born/grew up in New York my whole life (Bayside - Flushing Queens). The neighborhood I grew up in is very diverse too. There have been internet cafes around where I live. A lot come and go. They really don't have a stable business. There was once a place called Game Zone Cafe near where I lived. You can purchase beverages/snacks/pastries and ask for a controller and you can sit down and play a console game. Using the PC's were expensive (like $7 dollars an hr) but were high quality at the time. Recently, this summer, I got to go to Korea with my girlfriend. We stayed in pc rooms time to time. They are much cleaner, cheaper, and more friendlier in Korea. In New York, you have these very punkish kids coming to pc rooms to play. In Korea, you have little elementary kids coming at 7pm to play bubbling looking games, like kart rider and maple story. A lot of Koreans play Aion. The pc rooms are sometimes separated as smoking/non-smoking sections. They even serve snacks which is nice. Prices are cheaper in Korean RELATIVE to the USA. An hr would cost 1000 won, nearly a dollar (~$.80 USD). Now, answering your question.... 1. I believe I can see an Internet Cafe being successful in America. But EXTREMELY hard. Internet Cafe's in Korea work well for a few reasons. The amount of area in Korea is packed. The stores and homes all tightly packed to each other but with lots of people passing by. You will literally see two of the same bakery on the same side of the street. Property is expensive in Korea because of its limited land and growing populations. Most local pc rooms are actually a part of someone's house/apartment. The good thing, theyre open 24 hrs. Night life in Korea is active, but in America, its kinda dead :T People and places aren't so packed in America with so much land. New York City, though, is packed, but property/land is EXTREMELY expensive :T It would be hard to have a successful Internet Cafe in America. 2. Cafe owners here aren't finding the right place to set up an Internet Cafe. Again, finding the right place requires a lot of people, a nice environment of people (like in Korea with kids and adults), and most good places with a lot of people cost a lot :T Internet Cafe's have to be cheap, which would give people the incentive to come, pay, and play with friends. Even arcades, Tekken 6 has been a growing trend in Korea recently. Because of the price and number of people Tekken 6 arcade machines are too expensive and wont bring enough revenue in American Arcades. Playing Tekken 6 in Korea only cost 300 won (~$.28). For me, playing Tekken 6 at a nearby arcade (Peter Pan Gaming) just costs $.50. So if an Hr in Korea is 1000 won ($.80), then proportionally, an Hr in America should be nearly $1.60~1.70. (this is just one perspective of looking at pricing). If an Internet Cafe charged $1.60~1.70 an hr, I would have the incentive to pay and go! Sadly, in America, you wont be able to continue a successful business with just charging $1.60~1.70 an hr :T It wont bring enough money. If you have an questions that you want to ask me, I'm more than willing to answer
Can't believe I missed this post, but he is spot on.
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There's a pc cafe within walking distance of my house and I used to go quite regularly when I was younger. The only negative thing I've noticed with american PC cafe's (I've been to about four and it's the same in each one) is the young counter-strike crowd. Noisy, rude, obnoxious 12 year olds who just learned the F word. Fortunately they can be somewhat avoided by either going early or late in the day.
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I don't see internet cafes ever taking off in America, especially since computer technology is progressing at such ridiculous rates. Moreso now than ever, rather powerful gaming rigs can be built at relatively low costs.
A few months ago I helped my roommate build a computer from scratch that runs SC2 on high for only 500 dollars. At such low costs, why would someone go to a cafe, even if they have 3000 dollar gaming rigs?
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it's just a different culture.
Playing video games here = nerd/geek
In asia playing video games = cool/gangsta
Pretty sure rent in Asia can be equal or more expensive than NYC in some places, but there isn't enough demand for them. You can open a really nice internet cafe here in the middle of NYC renovated nicely and shit and it'll be empty half the time, there just isn't enough people interested.
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On September 10 2010 05:53 Steelflight-Rx wrote:
its just not in our culture to view video games as a social device, unless ur bro'in out with the bros playing madden or some shit like that
Sad, true and you made it funny as hell.
bro
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i think one of the biggest issue is culture.
Asians like to hangout at PC bars like Americans hang out at bars. Asian countries have alot higher concentration of population so PC bars get a much larger crowd. when i was in HK, on a busy day, I can hardly find a seat at a PC bar.
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United States3824 Posts
On September 10 2010 05:41 ppont wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 05:22 rgfdxm wrote:
some semi-uninformed guesses:
1. USA has much lower population density than Asia. This applies much less in some of the coastal urban areas, but generally this means smaller potential markets for each location.
2. This one is more conjecture based on things I've read, but I think the US households much more commonly have desktop computers. Home PCs were invented here and Microsoft's massive marketing campaign in the 90s with Windows 95 etc led very quickly to the median household having one.
Also, and I don't know if this applies as much for Korea, but I've read that in Japan, culturally computers are viewed more as an appliance and so gaming on computers as opposed to dedicated (console) systems is even more of a niche market. I think this is pretty much limited to Japan, with Nintendo as the big factor. What I don't understand is why people in Korea go to PC Bangs when SC1 runs on pretty much any computer.
Boxer says his mom would yell at him.
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Here in italy, internet cafè probably won't ever have success. Even the few that are opened are more of a "mixed" type of internet cafè where you still can drink and eat at the tables and hang out with your friends, and there always free spots at the pcs. I guess people prefer to play soccer or drink here, dunno. Personally i'd never go to one of those, but i'm a bit too old for such things anyway so my judgment is not affidable.
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On September 10 2010 05:41 ppont wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 05:22 rgfdxm wrote:
some semi-uninformed guesses:
1. USA has much lower population density than Asia. This applies much less in some of the coastal urban areas, but generally this means smaller potential markets for each location.
2. This one is more conjecture based on things I've read, but I think the US households much more commonly have desktop computers. Home PCs were invented here and Microsoft's massive marketing campaign in the 90s with Windows 95 etc led very quickly to the median household having one.
Also, and I don't know if this applies as much for Korea, but I've read that in Japan, culturally computers are viewed more as an appliance and so gaming on computers as opposed to dedicated (console) systems is even more of a niche market. I think this is pretty much limited to Japan, with Nintendo as the big factor. What I don't understand is why people in Korea go to PC Bangs when SC1 runs on pretty much any computer.
You must be kidding. You think every Korean plays bw?
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On September 10 2010 05:08 Hakker wrote:
I've always wanted to open an internet cafe in my area because the city i live in is between Greenwich and Darien Connecticut, which are 2 of the wealthiest suburbs in the world
They will buy their own Pc's.
I can't imagine young Frederick the II asking James to bring the car around so that he may travel down to his local internet café.
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Hmmmmmm, the cultural argument aside, the initiation of the internet cafe culture more prevalent in Asia is probably due to slow internet (its still holds true today in msia =.= ). You wouldn't want one player to disconnect while ur playing a 4v4 BGH map or CS with ur friends. and there's no such thing as LAN Parties here (specifically where everybody brings their desktops to 1 person's house)
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I live near an area heavily populated by Asians and there are heaps of internet cafes that are almost always full. Almost all my friends are addicted to them. XD
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I recently just went to a PC Bang/Restaurant/Bar/Console gaming/Mini Golf sort of place in Kittery, Maine. I'm not too sure how busy it is during the weekend, I'd imagine it's pretty decently busy, but I can see how risky it can be to run this type of business. If they did not have all the food and variety of entertainment, it'd be very difficult to keep the business up.
PC Bangs in America in my opinion seem to me like a good way to just improve on yourself rather than socialize like in a Korean PC Bang, but that's just my impression from visiting a PC Bang during the weekdays during school and work hours lol. I'll have to visit again during the weekend and see if there's any other fellow PC bang goers.
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In Korea, they like to play together, next to each other and interact. Since it's not expensive, they'll come after school and play. I saw a group of high school/middle school kids in korea, come in, and start playing brood war, while I was playing sc2 beta on the side, ALONE T.T
Its pretty much the same in stockholm here in sweden we have like 3-4 Internet cafés but only one that is really good --> www.infernoonline.com , i believe thats the link , and also the owner of that place is the manager or coach of SK gaming if i recall correctly. Lots of people are there after 14:00 cause all the small kids go there to play COD and such games but at weekends during the day kids are there and over the nights the more mature people are there atleast 16 years +.
If you want to become a big Internet café like that one i think you need to be at a location with lots of people and ofc you will have to make some kind of announcement so people will know it exists.
at inferno it costs 20kr/h and 100kr for a "nightgibb" which is 23:00-09:00 on weekends. They have tournaments during the Nightgibbs and such.
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its because people in asia even if they had the best gaming pc in their house, they will still hangout with friends in lan cafe to socialize.
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I don't know about America, but there are plenty in the two Canadian cities I've lived in (Toronto and Vancouver), but they still tend to be around the areas where there are a lot of Asians and of course their popularity is not close what it is in Korea. Nevertheless, they exist and have a niche market and is no-doubt been expanding as of recent.
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Hm...
I don't know where the next Internet Café is in switzerland.
I don't know where the next arcrade/game-place is in switzerland.
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In America, do you think catering to a slightly older clientèle might be more profitable?
Perhaps providing the standard service of some PCs and a few consoles with some HD screens, along with serving liquor/pub food?
Would these two in combination be asking for bad news? Or do you think it would be a more sociable place for the twenty-somethings that want to go out and socialize, but dont really do the "club" thing. It seems to me like those who don't like to socialize purely to socialize would rather have some gaming with friends to chill out and have a few beers.
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Ok noticed a few aussies have responded but the answers have been short. I think I'll give our perspective because we sound like one of the few western cultures where it is/has been viable to run a net cafe.
I live in Sydney, and since 2000 net cafes have more or less flourished in the inner city. The suburbs also have their mix but obviously there are less. Because of our appalling internet connections here net cafes were very popular early on. They then experienced a glut as more and more opened and conversely, as broadband services became cheaper, their demand shrunk. Many folded but a fair few have survived. Some of those that survived, now with fewer competitors, are still very busy.
An interesting thing happened around 06 when a popular net cafe was raided by the Australian Federal Police (AFP) for having pirated copies of movies and TV shows on their computers. All net cafes had started doing this as a way to continue to attract business, with decent success. The AFP had decided to make an example of one of the worst offenders (although given the number of movies and shows the net cafe I frequented had, it's hard to imagine how much worse it could have been anywhere else) and they were duly prosecuted and fined, but remained open. They are still around to do this day. What did change though, (for a time) was that all the remaining net cafes had to remove illegally downloaded movies etc off their comps.
These days the net cafes that remain have a distinctly more asian flavour. All the net cafes in the inner city have traditionally been run by Koreans and Chinese, however they usually had a mix of clientele: from european backpackers and young gamers to international students. These days the cafes that seem most crowded are the one's that have been opened recently, tucked away in back alleys and frequented almost exclusively by Asian gamers and those living over here on working visas and who mightn't have access to a computer. The ones that used to be more popular on the main streets have either closed or seem to be just scraping by.
For reference, prices are around $2.50/hr. All serve snacks/noodles and the one's that cater almost exclusively to asians have better service.
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One thing that seem to help or at least did help start those cafe in Korea, is that most of the game they play were free to play or you would have to pay for you account. This make starting the cafe cheaper for the owner, they could afford low prices and then people got used/addicted to going to those pcbang.
It's pretty much the opposite here in North America, the only time i went to PCcafe around in High School when we had long time with nothing to do, so mostly during the exams week, when you finish your day in the morning, but you live to far to go back home, so you have to wait for the bus... anyways those computer would have around 10-15 payed games installed on them. Unless the owner got some kind of discount because he bought many keys, this is a huge investment.
I don't see myself going to place much, the only thing good about it is being with your friends, but for that we just get everyone to bring their computer to ones place and just drink and play video games.
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internet cafes sometimes act as very cheap hotels. sometimes i see people going there to sleep at night when they miss the last train.
it's not gonna work in america, probably because everyone has internet at home. people dont wanna whack off in public.
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On September 10 2010 22:30 29 fps wrote:
it's not gonna work in america, probably because everyone has internet at home. people dont wanna whack off in public.
The true purpose of the internet revealed.
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It's all because of money; in many countries it's WAY cheaper to go play at a cybercafe for 2~3 bucks an hour than to have their own computers at home. In the USA is very improvable someone doesn't already have a computer at home because of how affordable they are. This will eventually happen in other countries and soon enough all cafes will be gone.
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I'd imagine the key to success in an Internet Cafe is diversification. Get a little of everything. Sell comics, rent out console time, have 8 computers with good internet speeds, sell Magic the Gathering, sell Warhammer 40k, etc. Along with concession sales these should all help prevent a huge loss of income due to one product/service losing sales.
Also, rent out the tables used for MtG, 40k, D&D, etc. Don't make it expensive. Charge maybe $1/hr to use the table. Don't make it hourly, but the key is charging for the table. Too often I'd go into a game store, play 4-5 hours of 40k, and only spend $1 on a soda. That time on the table could have been used by a paying customer.
Selling alcohol on certain nights sounds like a good way to make money, I just don't know if it would be profitable after all of the government regulation. Having lock-ins for the kids could be profitable. It seems like parents will pay any price to get the kids away from them for a few hours.
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Whereabouts in CT are you? (Don't give me your real address) I'm in Southern WMass!
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The first reply pretty much nails it on the head. I ran a small lan centre in Nottingham, England for almost three years. I wasn't the owner, but I ran the day to day business and if it wasn't for the cost of rent we would have made a decent profit as we had almost 2000+ members. The problem was that there were like only 100+ of them members who were weekly regulars.
The cost of updating the rigs caught up on us after a couple of year's and with the rent pegging you back it was really difficult. In the end the owner moved abroad and decided to close it. It basically paid for itself for 2+ years, bill + wages and it was just a lot of fun, that's it. Very hard to make a profit.
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On September 10 2010 05:53 Steelflight-Rx wrote:
I'm also from new england. when i told some of my friends i was going to NYC LAN #7 (a TL meetup) they were basically just like... "wat.. ur going somewhere to play video games with other ppl? nerd alert"
its just not in our culture to view video games as a social device, unless ur bro'in out with the bros playing madden or some shit like that
Well it's not like that around here, northern europe, I go to this huge lanparty once a year and I have a couple of lan-nights at my friends house every now and then. But I think gaming is a lot more common here, but what is most important is that you are proud of who you are! If you are a gamer then you shouldnt care what other people think because you are better then they are! Important to seperate nerds from gamers.
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Asking why you would go to an internet cafe when you have pc/internet at home is like asking why you would go to a bar when you can buy cheaper beer at the grocery store.
As others have said i think one reason is lack of population density in the states. Besides NY, Boston, Chicago and San Fransisco almost all cities in the states are less dense than europe and probably even more so than asia.
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EPT
