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On August 24 2010 00:07 Scruffy wrote:
I hope you aren't serious. 9/11 Truthers crack me up. Anyways, back to the topic. From what I heard of the radio, the reason people were mad was because they want to allow the mosque to be built, but not a Greek Orthodox church. If this is true, I'm totally against it.
If what I stated above ends up happening, I'm going to try to build a megachurch in Mecca.
Yeah...that would probably be a good reason to be against it...
But if that isn't true, I'm all for it. It's not like It's being built AT ground zero, which I think would be very offensive to a great deal of American people.
edit: Fixed a "sweeping generalization"
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On August 24 2010 00:17 UnexcitedZealot wrote:
The irony of all of this is that NYC is supposed the be the melting pot of the US, barring a mosque from being built just because it's near Ground Zero and because it's proposed by a Muslim person is verging on xenophobic. Most of the people protesting against it don't even know what they're talking about and believe all Muslims are terrorists. The only reason why I'd oppose this is because morons taking upon they're duty of protecting they're country are going to try trash it... repeatedly.
The whole idea of a "melting pot" being something desirable is part of the problem, to be honest. In other countries the attempt to assimilate distinct populations into a greater culture instead of preserving them and finding ways to cooperate is often thought of as an atrocity. More than once I've heard someone from the US complain that immigrants shouldn't speak their language in public, etc. Of course there are good people and bad people anywhere you go but the "melting pot" as a central tenet of US society isn't helpful.
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On August 24 2010 00:29 blahman3344 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 00:07 Scruffy wrote:
I hope you aren't serious. 9/11 Truthers crack me up. Anyways, back to the topic. From what I heard of the radio, the reason people were mad was because they want to allow the mosque to be built, but not a Greek Orthodox church. If this is true, I'm totally against it.
If what I stated above ends up happening, I'm going to try to build a megachurch in Mecca. Yeah...that would probably be a good reason to be against it... But if that isn't true, I'm all for it. It's not like It's being built AT ground zero, which I think would be very offensive to the American people.
Some of the American people are Muslim. I don't see how it'd be very offensive to them. Sweeping generalizations are no good...
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On August 24 2010 00:29 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 00:17 UnexcitedZealot wrote:
The irony of all of this is that NYC is supposed the be the melting pot of the US, barring a mosque from being built just because it's near Ground Zero and because it's proposed by a Muslim person is verging on xenophobic. Most of the people protesting against it don't even know what they're talking about and believe all Muslims are terrorists. The only reason why I'd oppose this is because morons taking upon they're duty of protecting they're country are going to try trash it... repeatedly. The whole idea of a "melting pot" being something desirable is part of the problem, to be honest. In other countries the attempt to assimilate distinct populations into a greater culture instead of preserving them and finding ways to cooperate is often thought of as an atrocity. More than once I've heard someone from the US complain that immigrants shouldn't speak their language in public, etc. Of course there are good people and bad people anywhere you go but the "melting pot" as a central tenet of US society isn't helpful.
Uh wow... You aren't very familiar with U.S. history and society are you?
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By the way, I just hope no one here thinks that Muslims are the #1 hated people in the world right now
And why do I think that approval of this "mosque" isn't so much for upholding the Constitution but more of a political maneuver..?
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Build it. Freedom of religion is a constitutional right, and interpreting it as "as long as it's Christianity" or "so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings" is ridiculous.
If people fail to make a distinction between Muslim terrorists and Muslim Baby Gap shoppers, that is their own failing. We don't label every Christian as if they're all members of Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK, or every Catholic as if they molest little boys; it would be ridiculous to do so, and it's equally ridiculous to do the same to the Muslim community.
Imo, it's just as bad as any other religious building. It will serve a purpose as a community center, which is admirable; but it will also spread a message of unquestioning following of a book written centuries ago.
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If opposite it you build a night club, across the road a butchers, and around the side a strip club. Then sure.
I'm not american, but it seems pretty disrespectful to me.
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There's already a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero. It's the biggest fucking deal in the world if one is made 1 block away.
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On August 24 2010 00:19 Hawk wrote:
There's no legal reason for the mosque being denied. It's definitely tasteless as far as the choice of the location and the timing—I don't even see how that's up for debate, these people are morons for wanting it there—but I'm more worried about the precedent than hurt feelings.
This gets denied then it opens the door for future denials based on someone's faith... a predominantly Jewish community blocking out a church, or stuff of the sort. Instead of all the stupid shit that's getting tossed around (Republican cries of TERRORISTS IN OUR BACK YARD!!) are just fanning the flames. Politicians need to find a less hostile way to make these people realize the emotional impact of their decision.
Location and timing? When will the wounds be sufficiently healed to stop making dumb links? If you really don't believe that islam is a terrorist religion, what makes you think that it's relevant to say that muslims should be more sensitive about where and when they build a church? Should we embrace stupidity? Should they? There'll always be those who will claim that the freedom of others is a threat to their "way of life", without having any valid argument to back up the claim. I think people should only be called moronic if they give in to moronic reasoning. So yeah, the people behind the construction of the mosque are arguably morons, but certainly not for the reason you stated.
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I stopped reading that Wad when you said that Islam is a terrorist religion.
"Freedom of Religion as long as it's Christianity"
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it's neither a mosque nor is it at ground zero
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At first, I thought they were building a Mosque RIGHT ON Ground Zero, so I was pretty against it. It'd be a slap in the face to the countless people affected by the tragedy. But then I got more into the subject, and apparently it's two blocks away. Seriously? It's two fucking blocks away. Who gives a shit.
On August 24 2010 01:02 uberMatt wrote:
it's neither a mosque nor is it at ground zero
AND THIS ^^^^^
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at first i was mad because i thought they were going to build it like right on the spot and that just seems a bit awkward, but its not even by it and its not like a fucking 70 stories tall statue of allah or something. so do not care not worth bothering over.
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The group of people who want to make it will not reveal who they are. They claim that they are doing it to make the new yorkers happy, if the new yorkers are not happy then why build it? If mayor Bloomberg denied the mosque from being build he will be know as a racist so either way everyone loses. I personally don't want a mosque to be put up right near a major "victory" for the Islamic extremists.
It is true they wouldn't let a greek orthodox church built there. I'm greek american and this was a big deal in my church.
Source: http://wiseconservatism.com/2010/08/22/ground-zero-mosque-yes-greek-orthodox-church-no/
When the towers were destroyed a Greek Orthodox church (Saint Nicholas) was destroyed and they are not allowed to get the permits to rebuild the church. The church was right next door to the WTC. But the mosque 1 block over was given all the variances and permits it needed to be built.
Quote from website:
If this is an issue of “rights,” then why was the Greek Orthodox Church denied its rights only to have those rights given to the mosque?
The ground zero mosque has got the go ahead to be built blocks away from Ground Zero, yet a Greek Orthodox Church that was destroyed in the 9/11 attacks has not been allowed to be rebuilt. What is going on with that? So it’s OK for a mosque to be built there but not a church? I thought this was America.
Why is it, that we cannot say no to any religion except for Christianity?
There is absolutely no excuse for this. No members of the Greek Orthodox Church were involved in the 9/11 attacks, so why is it that they have not gotten the go ahead to re-build their church, yet it’s full speed ahead for the mosque?
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On August 24 2010 00:59 wadadde wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 00:19 Hawk wrote:
There's no legal reason for the mosque being denied. It's definitely tasteless as far as the choice of the location and the timing—I don't even see how that's up for debate, these people are morons for wanting it there—but I'm more worried about the precedent than hurt feelings.
This gets denied then it opens the door for future denials based on someone's faith... a predominantly Jewish community blocking out a church, or stuff of the sort. Instead of all the stupid shit that's getting tossed around (Republican cries of TERRORISTS IN OUR BACK YARD!!) are just fanning the flames. Politicians need to find a less hostile way to make these people realize the emotional impact of their decision. Location and timing? When will the wounds be sufficiently healed to stop making dumb links? If you really don't believe that islam is a terrorist religion, what makes you think that it's relevant to say that muslims should be more sensitive about where and when they build a church? Should we embrace stupidity? Should they? There'll always be those who will claim that the freedom of others is a threat to their "way of life", without having any valid argument to back up the claim. I think people should only be called moronic if they give in to moronic reasoning. So yeah, the people behind the construction of the mosque are arguably morons, but certainly not for the reason you stated.
Don't matter if the reason behind the opposition right or wrong, a majority of people don't want a mosque there. They absolutely have a right to build it there, but from a pr perspective it's a terrible decision.
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On August 24 2010 01:01 Fruscainte wrote:
I stopped reading that Wad when you said that Islam is a terrorist religion.
"Freedom of Religion as long as it's Christianity"
Damn, you're lazy. I never said anything of the sort.
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On August 24 2010 01:09 Bob300 wrote:The group of people who want to make it will not reveal who they are. They claim that they are doing it to make the new yorkers happy, if the new yorkers are not happy then why build it? If mayor Bloomberg denied the mosque from being build he will be know as a racist so either way everyone loses. I personally don't want a mosque to be put up right near a major "victory" for the Islamic extremists. It is true they wouldn't let a greek orthodox church built there. I'm greek american and this was a big deal in my church. Source: http://wiseconservatism.com/2010/08/22/ground-zero-mosque-yes-greek-orthodox-church-no/When the towers were destroyed a Greek Orthodox church (Saint Nicholas) was destroyed and they are not allowed to get the permits to rebuild the church. The church was right next door to the WTC. But the mosque 1 block over was given all the variances and permits it needed to be built.Quote from website: Show nested quote +If this is an issue of “rights,” then why was the Greek Orthodox Church denied its rights only to have those rights given to the mosque?
The ground zero mosque has got the go ahead to be built blocks away from Ground Zero, yet a Greek Orthodox Church that was destroyed in the 9/11 attacks has not been allowed to be rebuilt. What is going on with that? So it’s OK for a mosque to be built there but not a church? I thought this was America. Show nested quote +There is absolutely no excuse for this. No members of the Greek Orthodox Church were involved in the 9/11 attacks, so why is it that they have not gotten the go ahead to re-build their church, yet it’s full speed ahead for the mosque?
I understand your anger over this seeming hypocrisy, but would denying another religious center (an evil) because a previous one was denied (an evil) make things right? If anything this suggests the Greek Orthodox Church ought to be forced through now, alongside the mosque.
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I am against spreading of any religion, especially islamic. Every religion was designed to control people and it's bunch of bs. Also be aware that in 20-30 years, all american and european major cities will have huge minority of muslims and they are pain in the ass. If we go to visit their countries, we have to respect their "ridiculous religious" laws and they come to our countries and build their mosques everywhere and people are like hey that's cool we respect that. What the hell...If they want to live or come somewhere, they should be the ones who should adapt, not the citizens. Also if the world is so scared of terrorism - bigger rate of muslims in a western country, bigger the chance of some being from the terrorists branch. If you let them build their mosques in your city, it's like saying hey come over here you are welcome, the more the better > which shouldn't be the truth. This might sound very offensive and racistic, but it is true and people will realize that. The question is if it will be soon enough or too late.
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There's also a ton of things you might not know about the project. The greeks could be doing something dumb, like trying to shoehorn a much large church than previously existed there or some other thing that requires variances and many zoning meetingss.
Could just be that one was in compliance with all the laws and the other wasn't. It's kind of hard to take anything serious from that terrible wiseconservatism.com website, but if the thing about the landswap is true, there's another reason why it could be taking so long... you're adding several more layers of legal hoops there.
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Ground Zero was because of extremists. Not Muslims. Muslims had nothing to do with it. People need to realize that Muslims are not the reason for what happened. The only reason this is an issue really is because various candidates (and lol Fox "news") were losing and realized they could use this to secure votes of all the ignorant people in the country. Let them build it, because they have the right to just like everyone else.
And all these things about another church being denied to rebuild. Yeah, makes sense. Let's deny someone else their rights because ours were taken away. That'll make more people happy. Sorry that church wasn't allowed to rebuild, it should have been, but denying other people the right to build theirs because of it is stupid.
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EPT
