• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:21
CEST 21:21
KST 04:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting4[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO65.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)73Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition325.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)119
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Ladder Impersonation (only maybe) Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Tenacious Turtle Tussle WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BW caster Sayle BW General Discussion Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw ASL20 General Discussion [ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal B [ASL20] Semifinal A [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Siegecraft - a new perspective TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Inbreeding: Why Do We Do It…
Peanutsc
From Tilt to Ragequit:The Ps…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1559 users

A Green United States - Page 5

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Amestir
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2126 Posts
August 06 2010 17:35 GMT
#81
On the European stuff:

Living in the Netherlands means that no matter where you are, the ground you're standing has been mapped, researched and has seen about 12 different destination plans. Since the Netherlands have a lot of people living on a small area we try to get the most out of every sqaure centimeter ground we got ^^

My village is a perfect example of a suburb discrbed in the example. I can walk to almoste everything and if that fails I can get there by bike. Furthermore we got 2 train stations, meaning that I can reach almoste every important Dutch city in 3 hours.

Now this works great in some European countires, but I doubt it will work well in the US. First of all the US is a lot bigger, the infrastructure needed to get everywhere with public transport in a reasonable time would be huge. Second, americans love there cars. The other forms of transportation need to be really good to ensure a lot of people switch. Also I see some problems creating a good infra structure, concidering you need good cross state communication to make it happen.

+ Show Spoiler +
A good first stap would be for the US to raise the fuel prices. It's ridiculous how few you guys are paying.
We know nothing.
gdroxor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States639 Posts
August 06 2010 18:05 GMT
#82
Anything that reduces oil consumption and has a high initial startup cost has a high chance of failure in this country. It's too profitable to keep things at the status quo.
Eben
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States769 Posts
August 06 2010 18:56 GMT
#83
Also something to think about is aside from getting an awesome bus/train system you have to get the middle class to want to use it. Aside from large cities such as New York and Sanfransico many places in the US have a terrible stigma against public transportation.

For example the suburb that I used to live in had a pretty decent bus system but everyone knew that only the poor people took the bus and no one would be caught dead riding it. Throughout the day you would see the buses running with like 2 people on them, such a waste.

In a lot of places the system is already there, people just don't want to use it.

(Disclaimer, I don't own a car and bike/bus everywhere I go, not because I want to really but because I have to.)
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
August 06 2010 22:09 GMT
#84
On August 07 2010 03:56 Eben wrote:
Also something to think about is aside from getting an awesome bus/train system you have to get the middle class to want to use it. Aside from large cities such as New York and Sanfransico many places in the US have a terrible stigma against public transportation.

For example the suburb that I used to live in had a pretty decent bus system but everyone knew that only the poor people took the bus and no one would be caught dead riding it. Throughout the day you would see the buses running with like 2 people on them, such a waste.


In a lot of places the system is already there, people just don't want to use it.

(Disclaimer, I don't own a car and bike/bus everywhere I go, not because I want to really but because I have to.)


yeah well i guess there's no cure for stupidity

i dont give a fig if i look poor because i take the train or the bus. its more comfortable (driving a car sucks, passenger not so bad) and you can take out schoolwork to do or a gameboy or whatever to pass the time
HEY MEYT
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
August 06 2010 22:47 GMT
#85
On August 07 2010 02:35 Amestir wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
A good first stap would be for the US to raise the fuel prices. It's ridiculous how few you guys are paying.


It's more ridiculous how much you Europeans are paying. The roads are a different matter and it is ridiculous how much space in the US is dedicated to roads for cars.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
August 06 2010 22:58 GMT
#86
On August 07 2010 02:26 Froadac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2010 06:21 TanGeng wrote:
On August 06 2010 05:49 Romantic wrote:
An inherent flaw in [b]capitalism!??[/b[ is that nobody takes into account systemic risk or non-$$$ considerations. Nobody thinks, "Oh when I buy this car taxes will go up to pay for the roads, I'll have to deal with congestion, global warming, drunk driving, noise pollution etc". America was purposefully marketed cars instead of more public transport and thats that. For a shitload of places it simply wouldn't be profitable.


Seriously, it's a flaw with only capitalism!?

That's a limitation of the human mind. People in general don't think beyond, several steps. For cars, of concern are: how much does it costs, where and how can I use it, what are its dangers, what are its comforts. Drunk driving and traffic congestion is factored into the equation. Noise pollution is a function of where you live and work and people pay attention to that. One extra car on the road doesn't add much to the equation.

What is left?

A. Taxes will go up to pay for roads.
Taxes were already leveed to pay for roads. Part of buying the car is a registration fee, which incidentally goes to pay for roads.

B. Global Warming
Exhaust pollution and smog might be an issue. Global warming is still unconvincing.

C. America was purposefully marketed cars.
America was purposefully helped into cars by its sprawling country. Ensenhower and the US interstate system helped along with that.

Public transportation makes sense in the biggest cities. Destroy the suburbs and that'll destroy the need for most cars.

My dad does traffic forecasting, and the environmentalists are always trying to get him to manipulate the reports, to say that if we have dense housing and work that traffic will go down. This is downright incorrect. The more wealthy someone gets the more separated their home and workplace will be. IE not many people want to live in Oakland CA, but tons of corporate people work there. Also, mass transit isn't practical when traveling such distances. Also, the traffic in southern california is awful, but they won't let them put in more roads, as it is argued that this will increase traffic. The answer to this is yes, it will increase traffic marginally, but people will spend less time driving, hence actually improving gas mileage and decreasing CO2 output.

Also, these 'smart growth projects' aren't working, because few people want to live there, they are generally actually quite expensive, and even though they are near businesses and retail, there are other/better businesses retail centers nearby.

Also, high speed rail is a sham. It would have to be heavily subsidized, and although it is more environmentally friendly, SouthWest would be faster and cheaper...


Actually, I think that is the point of my post. You actually have to produce a cultural shift and destroy the desirability of living in the suburbs. Tolled roadways with variable rates are probably the best way to reduce traffic congestion.

Railway is good for cargo and bulk transport not for passengers who want to go places. The US could cut down on some energy just by switching from trucks to rail for interstate hauls.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
August 07 2010 06:12 GMT
#87
On August 07 2010 07:58 TanGeng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2010 02:26 Froadac wrote:
On August 06 2010 06:21 TanGeng wrote:
On August 06 2010 05:49 Romantic wrote:
An inherent flaw in [b]capitalism!??[/b[ is that nobody takes into account systemic risk or non-$$$ considerations. Nobody thinks, "Oh when I buy this car taxes will go up to pay for the roads, I'll have to deal with congestion, global warming, drunk driving, noise pollution etc". America was purposefully marketed cars instead of more public transport and thats that. For a shitload of places it simply wouldn't be profitable.


Seriously, it's a flaw with only capitalism!?

That's a limitation of the human mind. People in general don't think beyond, several steps. For cars, of concern are: how much does it costs, where and how can I use it, what are its dangers, what are its comforts. Drunk driving and traffic congestion is factored into the equation. Noise pollution is a function of where you live and work and people pay attention to that. One extra car on the road doesn't add much to the equation.

What is left?

A. Taxes will go up to pay for roads.
Taxes were already leveed to pay for roads. Part of buying the car is a registration fee, which incidentally goes to pay for roads.

B. Global Warming
Exhaust pollution and smog might be an issue. Global warming is still unconvincing.

C. America was purposefully marketed cars.
America was purposefully helped into cars by its sprawling country. Ensenhower and the US interstate system helped along with that.

Public transportation makes sense in the biggest cities. Destroy the suburbs and that'll destroy the need for most cars.

My dad does traffic forecasting, and the environmentalists are always trying to get him to manipulate the reports, to say that if we have dense housing and work that traffic will go down. This is downright incorrect. The more wealthy someone gets the more separated their home and workplace will be. IE not many people want to live in Oakland CA, but tons of corporate people work there. Also, mass transit isn't practical when traveling such distances. Also, the traffic in southern california is awful, but they won't let them put in more roads, as it is argued that this will increase traffic. The answer to this is yes, it will increase traffic marginally, but people will spend less time driving, hence actually improving gas mileage and decreasing CO2 output.

Also, these 'smart growth projects' aren't working, because few people want to live there, they are generally actually quite expensive, and even though they are near businesses and retail, there are other/better businesses retail centers nearby.

Also, high speed rail is a sham. It would have to be heavily subsidized, and although it is more environmentally friendly, SouthWest would be faster and cheaper...


Actually, I think that is the point of my post. You actually have to produce a cultural shift and destroy the desirability of living in the suburbs. Tolled roadways with variable rates are probably the best way to reduce traffic congestion.

Railway is good for cargo and bulk transport not for passengers who want to go places. The US could cut down on some energy just by switching from trucks to rail for interstate hauls.

Exactly. I was just elaborating on your point.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 491
IndyStarCraft 147
ProTech75
BRAT_OK 73
Railgan 67
MindelVK 21
Codebar 20
trigger 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1364
hero 367
Leta 263
Larva 209
Mini 190
Hyun 126
Light 95
Dewaltoss 81
Mong 72
sas.Sziky 39
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 22
Movie 21
Aegong 21
ggaemo 17
NaDa 13
Shine 5
Dota 2
Gorgc8118
PGG 84
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
byalli556
Stewie2K423
Foxcn238
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu384
Other Games
FrodaN1509
fl0m812
Beastyqt689
Mlord338
Skadoodle307
markeloff71
Trikslyr42
Mew2King41
OptimusSC26
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 64
• Reevou 2
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2394
• Ler68
League of Legends
• Nemesis4917
• imaqtpie2040
Other Games
• Shiphtur270
• WagamamaTV54
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 39m
Replay Cast
3h 39m
The PondCast
14h 39m
OSC
16h 39m
Wardi Open
1d 15h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Safe House 2
3 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.