EPT"Millions for defense, sir, but not one cent for tribute!"
Arizona is Insane - Page 3
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
"Millions for defense, sir, but not one cent for tribute!" | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
On July 16 2010 08:56 Belegorm wrote: Anyway, Second Amendment says people can carry arms (and actually carry them, not be forced to leave them locked up in their closets at home). I'm sure we can all agree the people behind the Constitution had their heads on straight, and they clearly intended us to be able to carry arms. I'm fine with people owning guns so long as they have passed reasonable restrictions, like registering, background checks, and training on use of firearms. However, please don't use the "founding fathers" crap of a defense. The founding fathers didn't have to deal with level of weaponry available today. One man with a musket couldn't slaughter a whole room of people like an AK47 can do in a few seconds. | ||
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SilverLeagueElite
United States626 Posts
On July 16 2010 08:37 brain_ wrote: http://www.rmgo.org/images/GunFacts4-2-Press.pdf All sourced from official studies, mostly Federal sources. Thanks for this. On July 16 2010 08:35 Romantic wrote: I'm fairly sure registered gun owners rarely ever commit crimes. They rarely deter crimes, either, considering 500,000 guns are stolen every year (data from 1980-1990's where gun crime was the highest). I don't think you can measure deterrence since they go unreported. If you stopped a crime by simply showing a gun, you're not going to go to the police station and say, "Yo, I just stopped a crime". | ||
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susySquark
United States1692 Posts
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brain_
United States812 Posts
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Romantic
United States1844 Posts
The most striking crime differences from the US and other industrialized nations is amount of homicides\crimes involving guns, for obvious reasons. Guns in public schools is silly and I'd probably vote against that any day. If they want to force business owners\private schools to allow guns then I would probably reject that too. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
BUT Making a law that a congressmen has to have marksmen training is the complete fucking opposite of the conservative view of "Government out of our lives". This is why I can never trust people when they say they're conservative in the US. They don't know what it means and generally just means, "My views are the right views". Neither side of the coin has the right answers to both but conservatives are just plain weird. | ||
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tryummm
774 Posts
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SilverLeagueElite
United States626 Posts
On July 16 2010 09:23 brain_ wrote: susySquark, SilverLeagueElite, Bey, Belegorm... Can we go found a society, please? Probably the closest thing to it: Free State Project. I'm not quite there yet. The U.S. is still a freedom loving country but sometimes the rhetoric gets out of hand. | ||
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SilverLeagueElite
United States626 Posts
On July 16 2010 09:27 Romantic wrote: Well, if you deter crime by owning guns you need to think about the crime caused by your guns being stolen. That is all I was saying, I don't know which is better. The most striking crime differences from the US and other industrialized nations is amount of homicides\crimes involving guns, for obvious reasons. Are you saying had the thief not stolen a gun, they would be less apt committing a future crime? I think the more important number is the overall number of violent crimes, irregardless of method. It's probably true guns represent a disproportionate number as a percentage of crimes in the U.S. Do you have an data that compare countries' crime rates giving details on weapon choice? | ||
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brain_
United States812 Posts
http://www.rmgo.org/images/GunFacts4-2-Press.pdf | ||
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Kalpman
Sweden406 Posts
 Edit: At least this is the impression I get from following this spectacle from over here, I sure TL members are far too intelligent to agree with these laws though. Why not just ban guns altogether? Wouldn't this make your society a lot safer? | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Making it so anyone can just grab a gun and conceal it most anywhere is stupid. People should be required to take the normal classes (with shooting time not just videos and paperwork) before they are allowed to conceal and carry. Giving guns to every ignorant redneck and letting them take them everywhere is not only foolish it isn't necessary to uphold the 2nd imo. | ||
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lu_cid
United States428 Posts
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brain_
United States812 Posts
On July 16 2010 10:02 lu_cid wrote: The 2nd amendment really accomplishes nothing now that such sophisticated weapons exist... The significance is not in the power of weapons, but in who possesses them. In 1766 the British Empire had muskets and rifles and American farmers had... muskets and rifles. Today, the California National Guard, for example, has tanks, armored vehicles, jets, assault rifles, machine guns, etc... And California's citizens are allowed to have handguns with limited magazines, shotguns with limited magazines, some assault rifles with a 10 round maximum magazine capacity, etc. There is no comparison. When government can deny rights to its citizens and grant them to itself, with virtually no consent of the governed, liberty does not exist. ![[image loading]](http://freestateproject.org/images/gun_rights_slaves.240.jpg) | ||
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viscral
United States45 Posts
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lu_cid
United States428 Posts
Ok, have fun fighting against the government's tanks and fighter jets with your shotgun. | ||
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brain_
United States812 Posts
On July 16 2010 10:08 lu_cid wrote: Ok, have fun fighting against the government's tanks and fighter jets with your shotgun. Typical response- read the rest of my post that I edited in (I hit "submit" prematurely). Additionally: 1) Under the 2nd Amendment, we don't have to be constrained to shotguns. 2) Government would be far more reluctant to suppress an armed population. Imagine an insurgency led by Americans, instead of uneducated and incompetent Iraqis... 3) The sentiment that "people should not be able to defend themselves because they'd lose a fight with the army" is ridiculous. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
On July 16 2010 10:09 brain_ wrote: (I hit "submit" prematurely). If you'd taken a TL safety course in posting this would not have happened. | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
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