EPTEDIT: Did I mention we don't even have version control and I have every bit of code in my own bitbucket account?
The Big Programming Thread - Page 734
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Thread Rules 1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution. 2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20) 3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible. 4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
EDIT: Did I mention we don't even have version control and I have every bit of code in my own bitbucket account? | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:12 Djagulingu wrote: So I got a new job. In this new workplace, there is absolutely zero infrastructure going on right now. We have a bunch of rag tag servers running around and shit, a few apps but none of them are dockerized. A few days ago, I had to modify one of the applications and print all of its data on a json file (don't even ask why because I don't even know why). Since that day, I'm trying my hardest to debug the application but no. Just no. Not even an upstart conf in /etc/init. Instead, we just go ahead and say "node server.js &" and shit. I don't even know what to type in order to start the app on my own machine. I don't want/need 20 pages of documentation, I can just read code. But no, when I try to start with the instructions that the dude who deployed the app onto the server gave me, I get errors and shit. FUCK my life. Welcome to software development in 99% of all companies. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:13 Morfildur wrote: Welcome to software development in 99% of all companies. Maybe if you only work for startups who have no idea what they're doing. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:22 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Maybe if you only work for startups who have no idea what they're doing. As a matter of fact, I do work for a startup who has no idea what they're doing. I take the roles of developer, devops guy (or whatever the fuck you call the guys who run your aws stuff) and architect. I gotta say it: When I put on my developer hat or architect hat, everybody listens to me, but when I put on my devops guy hat, people stop listening to me altogether. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:13 Morfildur wrote: Welcome to software development in 99% of all companies. Is it actually that bad? I heard of companies that put stuff on shared folders instead of using source control and so on but surely most people use source control and a certain amount of testing, internal wikis etc.? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17832 Posts
On June 06 2016 06:50 Birdie wrote: Is it actually that bad? I heard of companies that put stuff on shared folders instead of using source control and so on but surely most people use source control and a certain amount of testing, internal wikis etc.? Back about a bajillion years ago when I was still a dev, I worked for a startup in NL and in the beginning it was all just a shared drive. We then copied the shared drive to the server for deployment. But it was only for a month or so, before we professionalized. Quite funny, because all of us devs were uni students and we worked.with CVS and later SVN for uni projects. One of the devs also started dedicating himself to devops, and we got a pretty awesome infrastructure going. I also got put in charge of creating the task management system, which worked really well and integrated well in our infrastructure (although I do not doubt they are cursing the unmaintainability of my first serious forays into javascript). | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On June 06 2016 06:50 Birdie wrote: Is it actually that bad? I heard of companies that put stuff on shared folders instead of using source control and so on but surely most people use source control and a certain amount of testing, internal wikis etc.? Most of our stuff is on shared folders, yes, but it's not because we like bad practises that much but because there are lotsnlots of big fat files. Also, in the defense of my guys, they are not of software development background (one of the cofounders has 25 years of development experience though, but he isn't working on the same project as I do) and nobody taught him the fact that "it's working" is never enough. Ever. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17186 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:13 Morfildur wrote: Welcome to software development in 99% of all companies. What? I've worked for 4 or 5 different companies now. All of them pretty small (3 - 50 people) but in all of them there was some version control (mostly Git), task management (Gitlab, Jira, Redmine) etc. They even transferred their old project done with no VC or in SVN to Git. Sure, the code can be shitty, documentation lacking, testing non-existent but otherwise it's been done proper. And usually there were some competent infrastructure guys (not counting stuff we had to do for various government offices who have no idea about server administration, have to keep bugged and outdated stuff in there for compatibility with some other useless software they use etc.). | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On June 06 2016 02:12 Djagulingu wrote: So I got a new job. In this new workplace, there is absolutely zero infrastructure going on right now. We have a bunch of rag tag servers running around and shit, a few apps but none of them have any infrastructure or anything. A few days ago, I had to modify one of the applications and print all of its data on a json file (don't even ask why because I don't even know why). Since that day, I'm trying my hardest to debug the application but no. Just no. Not even an upstart conf in /etc/init. Instead, we just go ahead and say "node server.js &" and shit. I don't even know what to type in order to start the app on my own machine. I don't want/need 20 pages of documentation, I can just read code. But no, when I try to start with the instructions that the dude who deployed the app onto the server gave me, I get errors and shit. FUCK my life. EDIT: Did I mention we don't even have version control and I have every bit of code in my own bitbucket account? I don't understand how people find themselves in these positions. Say you're interviewing at a startup, why not ask them what tools they use for version control, bug tracking, monitoring, release management, etc.? You could even ask them to show you around the office and talk to people on-the-job (I've actually done this at several startups that I interviewed for). This of course is probably not necessary/possible at larger tech companies who generally have their shit together, and if they don't, there's probably not much you could do about it anyway. At the places where I got red flags about the state of their tooling, I usually just sent a polite withdrawal email when I got a followup (or even before in some cases). | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
On June 08 2016 12:16 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't understand how people find themselves in these positions. Say you're interviewing at a startup, why not ask them what tools they use for version control, bug tracking, monitoring, release management, etc.? You could even ask them to show you around the office and talk to people on-the-job (I've actually done this at several startups that I interviewed for). This of course is probably not necessary/possible at larger tech companies who generally have their shit together, and if they don't, there's probably not much you could do about it anyway. At the places where I got red flags about the state of their tooling, I usually just sent a polite withdrawal email when I got a followup (or even before in some cases). 1- This was the first time I was changing jobs while also knowing what to expect from a tech company, so there is a lack of experience on my part 2- I was so fed up with my old company. The pay was shit, the job was shit, the framework we were using was even worse than shit (it was developed by oracle, that's how shit the shit was) and worst of all, our managers were shit. 3- My new company pays substantially better and I can implement all this shit anyway in my new company. Just need to convince boss about it, which is still substantially better than needing to convince ten different people when implementing new shit. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17186 Posts
Been working with it for years now and I'm still discovering truly baffling built-in functions. Just check those out: hebrev — Convert logical Hebrew text to visual text convert_cyr_string — Convert from one Cyrillic character set to another chop — Alias of rtrim() sizeof — Alias of count() Aliases... And stuff that belongs in external libraries, not freaking language core... Why do the maintainers keep such bullshit in there is beyond me. Seriously, screw bc for stuff done in the stone age and utilized by 0.01% of users (if that). // those can be useful when implementing some fuzzy searches, but they're just implementations of common algorithms levenshtein — Calculate Levenshtein distance between two strings soundex — Calculate the soundex key of a string metaphone — Calculate the metaphone key of a string similar_text — Calculate the similarity between two strings I kind of envy Perl users that they get to work with pretty clean core (but I still wouldn't code in Perl). | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
Do you guys know if vocational training (Ausbildung) in software development (Anwendungsentwicklung) will get me anywhere? I mean, would you hire people who only have vocational training and not a degree? I'm asking because I want to get into developing, but I can't afford going to uni full time. I have a BA in English / history already, so I blew my load on a useless degree and now, of course, the government won't fund me again for a second go. I also do not want to do a Duales Studium, because I'm enrolled in a Mechanical Engineering course (Uni Dresden) course, simply because I enjoy the maths involved. Do you think it's a viable option? | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On June 09 2016 05:43 DickMcFanny wrote: This question is mostly for Morfildur and Zatic: Do you guys know if vocational training (Ausbildung) in software development (Anwendungsentwicklung) will get me anywhere? I mean, would you hire people who only have vocational training and not a degree? I'm asking because I want to get into developing, but I can't afford going to uni full time. I have a BA in English / history already, so I blew my load on a useless degree and now, of course, the government won't fund me again for a second go. I also do not want to do a Duales Studium, because I'm enrolled in a Mechanical Engineering course (Uni Dresden) course, simply because I enjoy the maths involved. Do you think it's a viable option? Where are you looking for work? Within germany? I know that companies within germany are very desperately looking for competent programmers and software developers. At our university they are talent scouting weekly. They often complain about university students having too little practical experience. Universities often focus on the theoretical backgrounds. If you get an Ausbildung as a software developer (and we assume that it is a proper one) then you can certainly play this to your advantage. You just have to be confident and convince your future boss that a proper training and firm knowledge of practical work matter is more important than a fancy university degree. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
The theoretical backgrounds are honestly what I find most interesting, but those lend themselves to self-study, I found. | ||
zatic
Zurich15313 Posts
On June 09 2016 05:43 DickMcFanny wrote: This question is mostly for Morfildur and Zatic: Do you guys know if vocational training (Ausbildung) in software development (Anwendungsentwicklung) will get me anywhere? I mean, would you hire people who only have vocational training and not a degree? I'm asking because I want to get into developing, but I can't afford going to uni full time. I have a BA in English / history already, so I blew my load on a useless degree and now, of course, the government won't fund me again for a second go. I also do not want to do a Duales Studium, because I'm enrolled in a Mechanical Engineering course (Uni Dresden) course, simply because I enjoy the maths involved. Do you think it's a viable option? What are you goals? What kind of work are you aiming for? Software development can mean a lot of things. I am unsure what your reasoning against Duales Studium is though? To me that sounds like the obvious choice. Not much longer time wise than vocational training, won't cost you anything, and the most straightforward path into employment. Of course, you need to be accepted to it first ... I would be a little hesitant to recommend vocational training in software engineering mostly because it'll likely lower your starting salary compared to say FH or Duales Studium. If it's not so much about the money for you I guess it mostly depends on the company that takes you in for the training. | ||
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TheEmulator
28078 Posts
I'm looking to get back into programming as a hobby and I want to install a new Linux distro. I've taken CS classes in university and did some casual learning afterwards, all of which was on Ubuntu (this was at least 2-3 years ago). Most of my command line knowledge is still there and I wouldn't consider myself a complete rookie that needs to go the Ubuntu route again. BUT I'm kind of stuck on what Linux distro would be a good alternative. I'd be interested in converting to Arch with a little bit more experience, but probably not yet. I don't really crave a desktop/windows style experience that mint or other ubuntu clones offer either. Opinions on distros like Fedora/Debian/etc would be helpful. Mostly looking to do some web dev as a hobby although I want to explore/learn as much as possible (for fun at first but who knows what will come of it). Might even learn some server/sys admin stuff at some point  If it's too hard to suggest something since I didn't give you too much info maybe just talk about what you use and why you like it. Thanks. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On June 09 2016 07:08 zatic wrote: What are you goals? What kind of work are you aiming for? Software development can mean a lot of things. I am unsure what your reasoning against Duales Studium is though? To me that sounds like the obvious choice. Not much longer time wise than vocational training, won't cost you anything, and the most straightforward path into employment. Of course, you need to be accepted to it first ... I would be a little hesitant to recommend vocational training in software engineering mostly because it'll likely lower your starting salary compared to say FH or Duales Studium. If it's not so much about the money for you I guess it mostly depends on the company that takes you in for the training. Honestly, my main goal would be getting into security / cryptology. I find that endlessly fascinating. The thing about Duales Studium: First of all, it's difficult to get at the best of times, but for me it's impossible. I'm far too old to find a company that would choose me over the 15 candidates per position who apply. My CV is a mess, I'm old, and I don't have that much experience. Second of all, you can't be enrolled in two unis at once. I'm learning a lot of fun maths in my mechanical engineering course, even if it's part time, and I don't want to quit. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 09 2016 08:01 TheEmulator wrote: I have a simple question and I'm sure most of you are Linux enthusiasts so hopefully someone can help me. I'm looking to get back into programming as a hobby and I want to install a new Linux distro. I've taken CS classes in university and did some casual learning afterwards, all of which was on Ubuntu (this was at least 2-3 years ago). Most of my command line knowledge is still there and I wouldn't consider myself a complete rookie that needs to go the Ubuntu route again. BUT I'm kind of stuck on what Linux distro would be a good alternative. I'd be interested in converting to Arch with a little bit more experience, but probably not yet. I don't really crave a desktop/windows style experience that mint or other ubuntu clones offer either. Opinions on distros like Fedora/Debian/etc would be helpful. Mostly looking to do some web dev as a hobby although I want to explore/learn as much as possible (for fun at first but who knows what will come of it). Might even learn some server/sys admin stuff at some point If it's too hard to suggest something since I didn't give you too much info maybe just talk about what you use and why you like it. Thanks. Aside from the install process which is very doable step by step with help of the arch wiki (which is very comprehensive) daily usage isn't very different. Arch is a rolling release which means that you won't have to do big release upgrades every few years but arch has less out of the box support for some proprietary software (vpn clients for example). They AUR (user repository) for additional software on the other hand is more convenient than Ubuntu's PPA system. But I personally feel that the lack of third party support for proprietary stuff on Arch is really inconvenient so I just use Ubuntu forks on any system, also the defaults are saner and for some licensing reason fonts on most other distros look really horrible. You can develop and learn on all distros so in that regard there's no difference. I'd honestly stick with one of the *buntu distros or Fedora. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17186 Posts
On June 09 2016 08:26 DickMcFanny wrote: Honestly, my main goal would be getting into security / cryptology. I find that endlessly fascinating. The thing about Duales Studium: First of all, it's difficult to get at the best of times, but for me it's impossible. I'm far too old to find a company that would choose me over the 15 candidates per position who apply. My CV is a mess, I'm old, and I don't have that much experience. Second of all, you can't be enrolled in two unis at once. I'm learning a lot of fun maths in my mechanical engineering course, even if it's part time, and I don't want to quit. I was in the same spot you are a few years ago (bachelor in sociology, worked 7 years at administration level in a medical facility). It was tough in the beginning, I just signed up for as many entry-level programming interviews I could, got turned down a lot until I finally got accepted into unpaid 3 month internship. After that I got a job, got paid for those 3 months and it was pretty much a breeze from then on. The important thing is to take something from each interview. After each one where I got turned down I would sit down, learn and practice all the things they asked me about and with each interview I got better. Hope that helps you On June 09 2016 08:01 TheEmulator wrote: I have a simple question and I'm sure most of you are Linux enthusiasts so hopefully someone can help me. I'm looking to get back into programming as a hobby and I want to install a new Linux distro. I've taken CS classes in university and did some casual learning afterwards, all of which was on Ubuntu (this was at least 2-3 years ago). Most of my command line knowledge is still there and I wouldn't consider myself a complete rookie that needs to go the Ubuntu route again. BUT I'm kind of stuck on what Linux distro would be a good alternative. I'd be interested in converting to Arch with a little bit more experience, but probably not yet. I don't really crave a desktop/windows style experience that mint or other ubuntu clones offer either. Opinions on distros like Fedora/Debian/etc would be helpful. Mostly looking to do some web dev as a hobby although I want to explore/learn as much as possible (for fun at first but who knows what will come of it). Might even learn some server/sys admin stuff at some point If it's too hard to suggest something since I didn't give you too much info maybe just talk about what you use and why you like it. Thanks. Go with Debian. Ubuntu is based off of it so you'll be on familiar grounds (and pretty much all the help online for Ubuntu also applies to Debian), it's the same but much more stable and without so much bullshit and branding on top of it. You won't get bleeding edge packages like with Arch but you'll get a very solid and stable distro. I'd still dig out some old, forgotten laptop if you have one and play around with minimal Arch setups on it just to learn some more stuff without fear of breaking it. I know for sure that setting up a fully functional laptop with fluxbox, thunar, urxvt, irssi and npm for music did teach me a lot about Linux since I got a chance to practically pick and choose stuff I wanted in my setup and I ended up with a damn nice looking environment running on a 15 year old machine that didn't even require mouse or touchpad to operate (I could use those but I didn't need to for anything else than web surfing). | ||
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Cyx.
Canada806 Posts
On June 09 2016 08:54 Nyxisto wrote: Aside from the install process which is very doable step by step with help of the arch wiki (which is very comprehensive) daily usage isn't very different. Arch is a rolling release which means that you won't have to do big release upgrades every few years but arch has less out of the box support for some proprietary software (vpn clients for example). They AUR (user repository) for additional software on the other hand is more convenient than Ubuntu's PPA system. But I personally feel that the lack of third party support for proprietary stuff on Arch is really inconvenient so I just use Ubuntu forks on any system, also the defaults are saner and for some licensing reason fonts on most other distros look really horrible. You can develop and learn on all distros so in that regard there's no difference. I'd honestly stick with one of the *buntu distros or Fedora. Especially for learning's sake, I'm actually really enthusiastic about Arch - it's been my main (and only) distro for a couple years now and it's never caused me problems, but it *has* encouraged me to learn a lot about how the system works and to explore a lot of different options on my own. I started out with Arch first when I switched to Linux and I've stuck with it, I think it's really good for someone who just wants to explore and figure things out. | ||
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