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On July 06 2010 02:08 Wr3k wrote:
It honestly depends on how you label a conservative. While this is anecdotal entirely I have noticed that there exists very few hardcore conservatives among people in my age group. It seems as if the majority of those I associate with are libertarians and actually vote for the conservative party, which could easily explain why you see many liberal viewpoints online (since our age group are huge internet users). I believe that our generation is prone to more liberal social standards, and the division between conservative and liberal is more between fiscal policy.
Personally I am quite liberal when it comes to social issues, but very conservative when it comes to my views on government spending.
Keep in mind in this post I am using the terms conservative and liberal more in terms of how they relate to the corresponding Canadian political parties than the traditional definitions.
In my experience in the US, I've also never noticed any "hardcore" conservatives among my peers (currently in high school). In elementary/middle school, most of my classmates would say that they're republicans, they support Bush, etc. but I would guess that this comes entirely from their parents. At the time, I was living in the only apartment complex in a very very rich town; now that I go to a magnet high school, nearly all of my peers lean to the left politically.
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Since I haven't seen anyone defining modern liberal v. conservative yet, I propose that liberal means "one who supports forcing everyone to do x in order to attain a certain end y", and conservative "one who supports forcing everyone not to do x in order to attain y", I'd say you're going to get raped no matter what direction you're leaning
how's that for bias LOL
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On July 06 2010 02:19 angelicfolly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:03 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 01:57 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:49 HnR)hT wrote:On July 06 2010 01:33 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:28 JinMaikeul wrote:On July 06 2010 01:19 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:09 cemlions wrote:On July 06 2010 00:10 Djzapz wrote:
Smart people tend to lean towards the left =P
Look at the majority of the very smart people! Big claim I know but it's interesting to look into. It's surprising. That is a ridiculous quote. First of all how do you define smart people. Those who are well educated, succesfull financially, or maybe world recognition? Second of all what are you trying to accomplish with what you wrote, that the so called smart people agreeing with something makes it true, if so that liberalism is true because "smart people are liberal". I think such a tendency to look to "smart people " for guidance based on their merits, and accomplishments, rather than being analytical of the rational or viewpoint they advocate lends itself to a)not relying on critical thinking b)complete idiocy as such 1) A ridiculous quote? I wrote it. Seriously. 2) I use the very "smart" people as a benchmark here. Successful people who have used their brains in order to make discoveries or to become exceptionally talented in their fields. 3) I accomplish nothing. If you cared to make a research at all you would see that educated people heavily lean liberal. Up to you to explain why... It doesn't "make it true". Thinking liberalism or conservatism can be "true" is truly retarded. I don't base what I think on "what smart people think" but I think it would be ridiculous not to consider it. Stephen Hawking is a ridiculously good physicist. If he says something about politics, I'll put my mind to it even if it's conservative. FACT IS. It isn't... =( Even if you had some sort of study to prove this point, it completely ignores the question of whether their political stance is a result of their education or if it is a result of other factors such as some sort of bias in the academic community on a social level. Most of Hollywood is also liberal, but most people wouldn't attribute that to anything other than the fact that it's popular to be liberal there and not being liberal will often screw you out of opportunities. Correlation doesn't prove causation, it's true - I'm just posing the problem, I believe I've said that three freaking times. It doesn't ignore the question. It doesn't have an answer. I'll use the word "educated" instead of "smart" because it's more realistic (but I'm also incline to believe that smart people are more likely to get educated =P). So why are educated people largely liberal? I don't know. An instance of a smart person who leans to the left but WITH *BIG*, healthy nuances is Sam Harris. This is old but I feel that it's extremely relevant today. http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/I strongly believe that Sam Harris's world view is more healthy than that of ANY conservative you can find. Read it. PS: Sam Harris is very educated =P PS: Ben Stein... that idiot somehow got this thread's banner, yuck. I agree with you about Sam Harris. But trust me, there are a lot of conservatives at his level. You just need to look around more  I know there are a lot of conservatives at his level. Just significantly less than there are liberals. And both sides have idiots... My problem is that the right seems to have more idiots =P Liberals have environmentalist nutjobs and a good amount of conspiracy theorists (though there are some "9/11 truthers" on the right) Conservatives have racists, "fiscal irresponsibility" (a lot more so than liberals btw!!!), people who don't know what socialism means, Texas, people who are fine with the way military is handled and funded. PS: I'm just kidding about Texas (sort of) The current democratic congress is fiscally irresponsible, so trying to say its more then liberals is a very moot point, and actually the the contrary of a fiscal Conservatives. I have seen my fair share of liberal racists, and the current and that comes to mind is planed parenthood. And in my opinion the left has more idiots then the right. Moot points... We both think each other's wrong which is quite normal. But I'll say that conservatives are a lot less fiscally responsible =P... And it's quite obvious that the current government's been handed a messed up country but at least he's not lowering taxes like a berserker. Quit with the =P its not cute anymore. It also underlines what your aiming at. You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible. How badly is up to you. And the current Government made it INCREDIBLY WORSE. It's his problem now, and he's not helping the situation by saying it's still Bushes fault. Question, is a 8 trillion dollar bill helping? Simple answer no. Actually, it would be good to lower taxes so the common folk can get some money. Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:07 Mothxal wrote:
I'm not saying that conservatism = irresponsibility and liberalism = responsibility
Lately, the conservative parties have been EXCEPTIONALLY BAD at handling the money - or so it seems to me. Like I said before with the =P, it hints that was what your trying to say. This is exactly what I was going to say about the Republican party. You must do note that politicians are an issue when talking about ideology. Point is they really shouldn't be used as a prime example.
I think you're getting the quote tags confused. I never said that.
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On July 06 2010 02:26 Mothxal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:19 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:03 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 01:57 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:49 HnR)hT wrote:On July 06 2010 01:33 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:28 JinMaikeul wrote:On July 06 2010 01:19 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:09 cemlions wrote:
[quote]
That is a ridiculous quote.
First of all how do you define smart people. Those who are well educated, succesfull financially, or maybe world recognition?
Second of all what are you trying to accomplish with what you wrote, that the so called smart people agreeing with something makes it true, if so that liberalism is true because "smart people are liberal". I think such a tendency to look to "smart people " for guidance based on their merits, and accomplishments, rather than being analytical of the rational or viewpoint they advocate lends itself to
a)not relying on critical thinking
b)complete idiocy as such 1) A ridiculous quote? I wrote it. Seriously. 2) I use the very "smart" people as a benchmark here. Successful people who have used their brains in order to make discoveries or to become exceptionally talented in their fields. 3) I accomplish nothing. If you cared to make a research at all you would see that educated people heavily lean liberal. Up to you to explain why... It doesn't "make it true". Thinking liberalism or conservatism can be "true" is truly retarded. I don't base what I think on "what smart people think" but I think it would be ridiculous not to consider it. Stephen Hawking is a ridiculously good physicist. If he says something about politics, I'll put my mind to it even if it's conservative. FACT IS. It isn't... =( Even if you had some sort of study to prove this point, it completely ignores the question of whether their political stance is a result of their education or if it is a result of other factors such as some sort of bias in the academic community on a social level. Most of Hollywood is also liberal, but most people wouldn't attribute that to anything other than the fact that it's popular to be liberal there and not being liberal will often screw you out of opportunities. Correlation doesn't prove causation, it's true - I'm just posing the problem, I believe I've said that three freaking times. It doesn't ignore the question. It doesn't have an answer. I'll use the word "educated" instead of "smart" because it's more realistic (but I'm also incline to believe that smart people are more likely to get educated =P). So why are educated people largely liberal? I don't know. An instance of a smart person who leans to the left but WITH *BIG*, healthy nuances is Sam Harris. This is old but I feel that it's extremely relevant today. http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/I strongly believe that Sam Harris's world view is more healthy than that of ANY conservative you can find. Read it. PS: Sam Harris is very educated =P PS: Ben Stein... that idiot somehow got this thread's banner, yuck. I agree with you about Sam Harris. But trust me, there are a lot of conservatives at his level. You just need to look around more I know there are a lot of conservatives at his level. Just significantly less than there are liberals. And both sides have idiots... My problem is that the right seems to have more idiots =P Liberals have environmentalist nutjobs and a good amount of conspiracy theorists (though there are some "9/11 truthers" on the right) Conservatives have racists, "fiscal irresponsibility" (a lot more so than liberals btw!!!), people who don't know what socialism means, Texas, people who are fine with the way military is handled and funded. PS: I'm just kidding about Texas (sort of) The current democratic congress is fiscally irresponsible, so trying to say its more then liberals is a very moot point, and actually the the contrary of a fiscal Conservatives. I have seen my fair share of liberal racists, and the current and that comes to mind is planed parenthood. And in my opinion the left has more idiots then the right. Moot points... We both think each other's wrong which is quite normal. But I'll say that conservatives are a lot less fiscally responsible =P... And it's quite obvious that the current government's been handed a messed up country but at least he's not lowering taxes like a berserker. Quit with the =P its not cute anymore. It also underlines what your aiming at. You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible. How badly is up to you. And the current Government made it INCREDIBLY WORSE. It's his problem now, and he's not helping the situation by saying it's still Bushes fault. Question, is a 8 trillion dollar bill helping? Simple answer no. Actually, it would be good to lower taxes so the common folk can get some money. On July 06 2010 02:07 Mothxal wrote:
I'm not saying that conservatism = irresponsibility and liberalism = responsibility
Lately, the conservative parties have been EXCEPTIONALLY BAD at handling the money - or so it seems to me. Like I said before with the =P, it hints that was what your trying to say. This is exactly what I was going to say about the Republican party. You must do note that politicians are an issue when talking about ideology. Point is they really shouldn't be used as a prime example. I think you're getting the quote tags confused. I never said that.
Quoting improperly undermines his point imo.
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On July 06 2010 02:23 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:08 Wr3k wrote:
It honestly depends on how you label a conservative. While this is anecdotal entirely I have noticed that there exists very few hardcore conservatives among people in my age group. It seems as if the majority of those I associate with are libertarians and actually vote for the conservative party, which could easily explain why you see many liberal viewpoints online (since our age group are huge internet users). I believe that our generation is prone to more liberal social standards, and the division between conservative and liberal is more between fiscal policy.
Personally I am quite liberal when it comes to social issues, but very conservative when it comes to my views on government spending.
Keep in mind in this post I am using the terms conservative and liberal more in terms of how they relate to the corresponding Canadian political parties than the traditional definitions. In my experience in the US, I've also never noticed any "hardcore" conservatives among my peers (currently in high school). In elementary/middle school, most of my classmates would say that they're republicans, they support Bush, etc. but I would guess that this comes entirely from their parents. At the time, I was living in the only apartment complex in a very very rich town; now that I go to a magnet high school, nearly all of my peers lean to the left politically.
Yeah, I live in a very conservative city, and I find that most of the older crowd are conservative party supporters, while in the younger crowd you see more liberals and libertarians. I think a massive number of people who are quite liberal still vote for the conservative party in Canada due to apparent fiscal irresponsibility from other parties.
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On July 06 2010 02:22 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:19 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:03 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 01:57 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:49 HnR)hT wrote:On July 06 2010 01:33 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:28 JinMaikeul wrote:On July 06 2010 01:19 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:09 cemlions wrote:
[quote]
That is a ridiculous quote.
First of all how do you define smart people. Those who are well educated, succesfull financially, or maybe world recognition?
Second of all what are you trying to accomplish with what you wrote, that the so called smart people agreeing with something makes it true, if so that liberalism is true because "smart people are liberal". I think such a tendency to look to "smart people " for guidance based on their merits, and accomplishments, rather than being analytical of the rational or viewpoint they advocate lends itself to
a)not relying on critical thinking
b)complete idiocy as such 1) A ridiculous quote? I wrote it. Seriously. 2) I use the very "smart" people as a benchmark here. Successful people who have used their brains in order to make discoveries or to become exceptionally talented in their fields. 3) I accomplish nothing. If you cared to make a research at all you would see that educated people heavily lean liberal. Up to you to explain why... It doesn't "make it true". Thinking liberalism or conservatism can be "true" is truly retarded. I don't base what I think on "what smart people think" but I think it would be ridiculous not to consider it. Stephen Hawking is a ridiculously good physicist. If he says something about politics, I'll put my mind to it even if it's conservative. FACT IS. It isn't... =( Even if you had some sort of study to prove this point, it completely ignores the question of whether their political stance is a result of their education or if it is a result of other factors such as some sort of bias in the academic community on a social level. Most of Hollywood is also liberal, but most people wouldn't attribute that to anything other than the fact that it's popular to be liberal there and not being liberal will often screw you out of opportunities. Correlation doesn't prove causation, it's true - I'm just posing the problem, I believe I've said that three freaking times. It doesn't ignore the question. It doesn't have an answer. I'll use the word "educated" instead of "smart" because it's more realistic (but I'm also incline to believe that smart people are more likely to get educated =P). So why are educated people largely liberal? I don't know. An instance of a smart person who leans to the left but WITH *BIG*, healthy nuances is Sam Harris. This is old but I feel that it's extremely relevant today. http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/I strongly believe that Sam Harris's world view is more healthy than that of ANY conservative you can find. Read it. PS: Sam Harris is very educated =P PS: Ben Stein... that idiot somehow got this thread's banner, yuck. I agree with you about Sam Harris. But trust me, there are a lot of conservatives at his level. You just need to look around more I know there are a lot of conservatives at his level. Just significantly less than there are liberals. And both sides have idiots... My problem is that the right seems to have more idiots =P Liberals have environmentalist nutjobs and a good amount of conspiracy theorists (though there are some "9/11 truthers" on the right) Conservatives have racists, "fiscal irresponsibility" (a lot more so than liberals btw!!!), people who don't know what socialism means, Texas, people who are fine with the way military is handled and funded. PS: I'm just kidding about Texas (sort of) The current democratic congress is fiscally irresponsible, so trying to say its more then liberals is a very moot point, and actually the the contrary of a fiscal Conservatives. I have seen my fair share of liberal racists, and the current and that comes to mind is planed parenthood. And in my opinion the left has more idiots then the right. Moot points... We both think each other's wrong which is quite normal. But I'll say that conservatives are a lot less fiscally responsible =P... And it's quite obvious that the current government's been handed a messed up country but at least he's not lowering taxes like a berserker. Quit with the =P its not cute anymore. It also underlines what your aiming at. You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible. How badly is up to you. And the current Government made it INCREDIBLY WORSE. It's his problem now, and he's not helping the situation by saying it's still Bushes fault. Question, is a 8 trillion dollar bill helping? Simple answer no. Actually, it would be good to lower taxes so the common folk can get some money. On July 06 2010 02:07 Mothxal wrote:
I'm not saying that conservatism = irresponsibility and liberalism = responsibility
Lately, the conservative parties have been EXCEPTIONALLY BAD at handling the money - or so it seems to me. Like I said before with the =P, it hints that was what your trying to say. This is exactly what I was going to say about the Republican party. You must do note that politicians are an issue when talking about ideology. Point is they really shouldn't be used as a prime example. No cute tongues then.... You know nothing about economics. Go home =(
Wow, such a comeback, care to provide evidence or are you just going to mud sling because you underwear got twisted?
Guess I'm not as smart as a liberal....
Mothxal,
My mistake, you should know who that was aimed at.
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On July 06 2010 02:28 angelicfolly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:22 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:19 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:03 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 01:57 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:49 HnR)hT wrote:On July 06 2010 01:33 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:28 JinMaikeul wrote:On July 06 2010 01:19 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
1) A ridiculous quote? I wrote it. Seriously.
2) I use the very "smart" people as a benchmark here. Successful people who have used their brains in order to make discoveries or to become exceptionally talented in their fields.
3) I accomplish nothing. If you cared to make a research at all you would see that educated people heavily lean liberal. Up to you to explain why... It doesn't "make it true". Thinking liberalism or conservatism can be "true" is truly retarded.
I don't base what I think on "what smart people think" but I think it would be ridiculous not to consider it. Stephen Hawking is a ridiculously good physicist. If he says something about politics, I'll put my mind to it even if it's conservative. FACT IS. It isn't... =(
Even if you had some sort of study to prove this point, it completely ignores the question of whether their political stance is a result of their education or if it is a result of other factors such as some sort of bias in the academic community on a social level. Most of Hollywood is also liberal, but most people wouldn't attribute that to anything other than the fact that it's popular to be liberal there and not being liberal will often screw you out of opportunities. Correlation doesn't prove causation, it's true - I'm just posing the problem, I believe I've said that three freaking times. It doesn't ignore the question. It doesn't have an answer. I'll use the word "educated" instead of "smart" because it's more realistic (but I'm also incline to believe that smart people are more likely to get educated =P). So why are educated people largely liberal? I don't know. An instance of a smart person who leans to the left but WITH *BIG*, healthy nuances is Sam Harris. This is old but I feel that it's extremely relevant today. http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/I strongly believe that Sam Harris's world view is more healthy than that of ANY conservative you can find. Read it. PS: Sam Harris is very educated =P PS: Ben Stein... that idiot somehow got this thread's banner, yuck. I agree with you about Sam Harris. But trust me, there are a lot of conservatives at his level. You just need to look around more I know there are a lot of conservatives at his level. Just significantly less than there are liberals. And both sides have idiots... My problem is that the right seems to have more idiots =P Liberals have environmentalist nutjobs and a good amount of conspiracy theorists (though there are some "9/11 truthers" on the right) Conservatives have racists, "fiscal irresponsibility" (a lot more so than liberals btw!!!), people who don't know what socialism means, Texas, people who are fine with the way military is handled and funded. PS: I'm just kidding about Texas (sort of) The current democratic congress is fiscally irresponsible, so trying to say its more then liberals is a very moot point, and actually the the contrary of a fiscal Conservatives. I have seen my fair share of liberal racists, and the current and that comes to mind is planed parenthood. And in my opinion the left has more idiots then the right. Moot points... We both think each other's wrong which is quite normal. But I'll say that conservatives are a lot less fiscally responsible =P... And it's quite obvious that the current government's been handed a messed up country but at least he's not lowering taxes like a berserker. Quit with the =P its not cute anymore. It also underlines what your aiming at. You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible. How badly is up to you. And the current Government made it INCREDIBLY WORSE. It's his problem now, and he's not helping the situation by saying it's still Bushes fault. Question, is a 8 trillion dollar bill helping? Simple answer no. Actually, it would be good to lower taxes so the common folk can get some money. On July 06 2010 02:07 Mothxal wrote:
I'm not saying that conservatism = irresponsibility and liberalism = responsibility
Lately, the conservative parties have been EXCEPTIONALLY BAD at handling the money - or so it seems to me. Like I said before with the =P, it hints that was what your trying to say. This is exactly what I was going to say about the Republican party. You must do note that politicians are an issue when talking about ideology. Point is they really shouldn't be used as a prime example. No cute tongues then.... You know nothing about economics. Go home =( Wow, such a comeback, care to provide evidence or are you just going to mud sling because you underwear got twisted? Guess I'm not as smart as a liberal.... Mothxal, My mistake, you should know who that was aimed at.
Excuse me, evidence? You didn't provide any. I can just push you away with the back of my hand. You don't have any grounds to tell me I need evidence. If you told me you saw a unicorn I'd tell you to get back in your cage.
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I often find that there are many liberals on the internet, especially on places like Reddit (which still is a great site). Though, on Youtube, most comments seem to be by 8 year olds with nazi inspirations...
Anyways, I am a marxist so both the liberal and conservative flavor of reactionaries annoy me.
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You cannot really define conservative and liberal too clearly... Overall conservatives try to maintain order, keep things as they are or try to return to the way things were a while ago. Liberal means more modernist, forward-looking stance.
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On July 06 2010 02:30 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:28 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:22 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:19 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:03 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 01:57 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:49 HnR)hT wrote:On July 06 2010 01:33 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:28 JinMaikeul wrote:
[quote]
Even if you had some sort of study to prove this point, it completely ignores the question of whether their political stance is a result of their education or if it is a result of other factors such as some sort of bias in the academic community on a social level. Most of Hollywood is also liberal, but most people wouldn't attribute that to anything other than the fact that it's popular to be liberal there and not being liberal will often screw you out of opportunities.
Correlation doesn't prove causation, it's true - I'm just posing the problem, I believe I've said that three freaking times. It doesn't ignore the question. It doesn't have an answer. I'll use the word "educated" instead of "smart" because it's more realistic (but I'm also incline to believe that smart people are more likely to get educated =P). So why are educated people largely liberal? I don't know. An instance of a smart person who leans to the left but WITH *BIG*, healthy nuances is Sam Harris. This is old but I feel that it's extremely relevant today. http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/I strongly believe that Sam Harris's world view is more healthy than that of ANY conservative you can find. Read it. PS: Sam Harris is very educated =P PS: Ben Stein... that idiot somehow got this thread's banner, yuck. I agree with you about Sam Harris. But trust me, there are a lot of conservatives at his level. You just need to look around more I know there are a lot of conservatives at his level. Just significantly less than there are liberals. And both sides have idiots... My problem is that the right seems to have more idiots =P Liberals have environmentalist nutjobs and a good amount of conspiracy theorists (though there are some "9/11 truthers" on the right) Conservatives have racists, "fiscal irresponsibility" (a lot more so than liberals btw!!!), people who don't know what socialism means, Texas, people who are fine with the way military is handled and funded. PS: I'm just kidding about Texas (sort of) The current democratic congress is fiscally irresponsible, so trying to say its more then liberals is a very moot point, and actually the the contrary of a fiscal Conservatives. I have seen my fair share of liberal racists, and the current and that comes to mind is planed parenthood. And in my opinion the left has more idiots then the right. Moot points... We both think each other's wrong which is quite normal. But I'll say that conservatives are a lot less fiscally responsible =P... And it's quite obvious that the current government's been handed a messed up country but at least he's not lowering taxes like a berserker. Quit with the =P its not cute anymore. It also underlines what your aiming at. You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible. How badly is up to you. And the current Government made it INCREDIBLY WORSE. It's his problem now, and he's not helping the situation by saying it's still Bushes fault. Question, is a 8 trillion dollar bill helping? Simple answer no. Actually, it would be good to lower taxes so the common folk can get some money. On July 06 2010 02:07 Mothxal wrote:
I'm not saying that conservatism = irresponsibility and liberalism = responsibility
Lately, the conservative parties have been EXCEPTIONALLY BAD at handling the money - or so it seems to me. Like I said before with the =P, it hints that was what your trying to say. This is exactly what I was going to say about the Republican party. You must do note that politicians are an issue when talking about ideology. Point is they really shouldn't be used as a prime example. No cute tongues then.... You know nothing about economics. Go home =( Wow, such a comeback, care to provide evidence or are you just going to mud sling because you underwear got twisted? Guess I'm not as smart as a liberal.... Mothxal, My mistake, you should know who that was aimed at. Excuse me, evidence? You didn't provide any. I can just push you away with the back of my hand. You don't have any grounds to tell me I need evidence. If you told me you saw a unicorn I'd tell you to get back in your cage.
Excuse me sir,
This little thing has been quite peaceful.
When did you get so ruffled to personally attack somebody? You want to say I have no economics and say I should go home (not to mention I writing on the internet really doesn't make sense).
I do so have grounds to question you when you go after me personally. I don't know what qualifies you have more voice then I do, so all I'm seeing is tantamount to anger over a moot point.
And If somebody told me a 8 trillion dollar bill is helping our economy I would say the same thing (this really should be obvious sarcasm).
Oh its not like you provided any evidence, so I don't know what high ground you try to put yourself on, but you forget theres no advantage. OH do remember this is the conversation between you and me, so don't go further then that.
I really don't know what made you go off the wall, but I guess it was bound to happen to somebody.
Anyways,
the 8 trillion dollars has NOT helped at all, it was a pet project to get things they wanted passed and that was all it was. That's not pulling out all the bull that it was in it for democratic pet projects.
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People learn about the classical meanings (old world?) for the words Conservative and Liberal and they start developing airs -.-. I'll give you a hint kids. Just because you mention that you know what "liberalism" entails doesn't make you special.
Interesting thread otherwise... one segment arguing about how no one understands the language that they are using, another group debating on whether charity weakens those lazy poor people and another group trying to explain political affiliation as a marker for the intelligence of a person.
Edit: /\ You understand the concept of Keynesian fiscal policy right? The active use of monetary and fiscal tools to combat the effects of a depression are part of the cannon of mainstream of Economic theory.To not spend money on a fiscal stimulus is either insanity or ignorance. The stimulus bill was about 1/2 as large as necessary according to modern theory.
"You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible."
Silly semantics. The American mainstream "Conservative" movement has accepted Reagan and Bush Jr. as conservatives. They are prime examples of a conservative profligacy.
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Excuse me sir,
This little thing has been quite peaceful.
When did you get so ruffled to personally attack somebody? You want to say I have no economics and say I should go home (not to mention I writing on the internet really doesn't make sense).
-Interprets figurative lines literally.
I do so have grounds to question you when you go after me personally. I don't know what qualifies you have more voice then I do, so all I'm seeing is tantamount to anger over a moot point.
-Believes that you acquire grounds to go question someone after that person "goes after you"
And If somebody told me a 8 trillion dollar bill is helping our economy I would say the same thing (this really should be obvious sarcasm).
What bill is this?
Oh its not like you provided any evidence, so I don't know what high ground you try to put yourself on, but you forget theres no advantage. OH do remember this is the conversation between you and me, so don't go further then that.
I really don't know what made you go off the wall, but I guess it was bound to happen to somebody.
Anyways,
the 8 trillion dollars has NOT helped at all, it was a pet project to get things they wanted passed and that was all it was. That's not pulling out all the bull that it was in it for democratic pet projects.
I don't think the US has spent 8 trillions... And if such a bill exists I would like for you too show me and then I'll tell you what I think. I just don't remember hearing about it =(
PS: The US hasn't spent 8 trillion dollars on a single bill - saying "the 8 trillion dollars has not helped" is disingenuous and implies that the whole 8 trillions have been wasted which is ABSURD beyond belief.
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On July 06 2010 02:41 angelicfolly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 02:30 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:28 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:22 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:19 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 02:03 angelicfolly wrote:On July 06 2010 01:57 Djzapz wrote:On July 06 2010 01:49 HnR)hT wrote:On July 06 2010 01:33 Djzapz wrote:[quote] Correlation doesn't prove causation, it's true - I'm just posing the problem, I believe I've said that three freaking times. It doesn't ignore the question. It doesn't have an answer. I'll use the word "educated" instead of "smart" because it's more realistic (but I'm also incline to believe that smart people are more likely to get educated =P). So why are educated people largely liberal? I don't know. An instance of a smart person who leans to the left but WITH *BIG*, healthy nuances is Sam Harris. This is old but I feel that it's extremely relevant today. http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-end-of-liberalism/I strongly believe that Sam Harris's world view is more healthy than that of ANY conservative you can find. Read it. PS: Sam Harris is very educated =P PS: Ben Stein... that idiot somehow got this thread's banner, yuck. I agree with you about Sam Harris. But trust me, there are a lot of conservatives at his level. You just need to look around more I know there are a lot of conservatives at his level. Just significantly less than there are liberals. And both sides have idiots... My problem is that the right seems to have more idiots =P Liberals have environmentalist nutjobs and a good amount of conspiracy theorists (though there are some "9/11 truthers" on the right) Conservatives have racists, "fiscal irresponsibility" (a lot more so than liberals btw!!!), people who don't know what socialism means, Texas, people who are fine with the way military is handled and funded. PS: I'm just kidding about Texas (sort of) The current democratic congress is fiscally irresponsible, so trying to say its more then liberals is a very moot point, and actually the the contrary of a fiscal Conservatives. I have seen my fair share of liberal racists, and the current and that comes to mind is planed parenthood. And in my opinion the left has more idiots then the right. Moot points... We both think each other's wrong which is quite normal. But I'll say that conservatives are a lot less fiscally responsible =P... And it's quite obvious that the current government's been handed a messed up country but at least he's not lowering taxes like a berserker. Quit with the =P its not cute anymore. It also underlines what your aiming at. You cannot generally say Conservatives are fiscally irresponsible, you just cannot because by the very definition of a fiscal Conservative is being responsible. How badly is up to you. And the current Government made it INCREDIBLY WORSE. It's his problem now, and he's not helping the situation by saying it's still Bushes fault. Question, is a 8 trillion dollar bill helping? Simple answer no. Actually, it would be good to lower taxes so the common folk can get some money. On July 06 2010 02:07 Mothxal wrote:
I'm not saying that conservatism = irresponsibility and liberalism = responsibility
Lately, the conservative parties have been EXCEPTIONALLY BAD at handling the money - or so it seems to me. Like I said before with the =P, it hints that was what your trying to say. This is exactly what I was going to say about the Republican party. You must do note that politicians are an issue when talking about ideology. Point is they really shouldn't be used as a prime example. No cute tongues then.... You know nothing about economics. Go home =( Wow, such a comeback, care to provide evidence or are you just going to mud sling because you underwear got twisted? Guess I'm not as smart as a liberal.... Mothxal, My mistake, you should know who that was aimed at. Excuse me, evidence? You didn't provide any. I can just push you away with the back of my hand. You don't have any grounds to tell me I need evidence. If you told me you saw a unicorn I'd tell you to get back in your cage. Excuse me sir, This little thing has been quite peaceful. When did you get so ruffled to personally attack somebody? You want to say I have no economics and say I should go home (not to mention I writing on the internet really doesn't make sense). I do so have grounds to question you when you go after me personally. I don't know what qualifies you have more voice then I do, so all I'm seeing is tantamount to anger over a moot point. And If somebody told me a 8 trillion dollar bill is helping our economy I would say the same thing (this really should be obvious sarcasm). Oh its not like you provided any evidence, so I don't know what high ground you try to put yourself on, but you forget theres no advantage. OH do remember this is the conversation between you and me, so don't go further then that. I really don't know what made you go off the wall, but I guess it was bound to happen to somebody. Anyways, the 8 trillion dollars has NOT helped at all, it was a pet project to get things they wanted passed and that was all it was. That's not pulling out all the bull that it was in it for democratic pet projects.
Most economists agree that the bailout was a necessary function in order to keep the economy alive whatsoever, both from the right and left.
Though, i'm sure there is disagreement between the execution and details of said bill, the bill itself was necessary.
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Why the internet has a liberal bias I can't safely say but what I do know is that younger people tend to be more idealistic hence liberal. I think thats the supreme difference between a teenager and, say, a twenty-six year old. The older you get the more you understand and the less you think you know everything.
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On July 05 2010 19:30 endy wrote:
Average IQ of youtube comments posters is barely above my grandmother's APM.
Lmao this is awesome!
However the internet has become the worlds new encyclopedia and it not only holds yet funds minds with both true and conspirist information, take for example all these 'preppers' people whom are readily stocked to survive 6 months in there cellar if WW3 started 2moro, this is a great phenomenon bought on by such forums identified by he internet! The ease at which vast amount of information can be acquired questioned and answered in a relatively quick instance by a world wide population is outstanding and can only help not hinder the minds advancement if used in the correct way.
personally i just watch porn all day XD
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On July 06 2010 02:47 Djzapz wrote:
-Interprets figurative lines literally.
-Believes that you acquire grounds to go question someone after that person "goes after you"
What bill is this?
I don't think the US has spent 8 trillions... And if such a bill exists I would like for you too show me and then I'll tell you what I think. I just don't remember hearing about it =([/QUOTE]
Woosh for you, seriously you didn't get that.
ad hominem is a logical fallacy, I have every right to question you on it.
You want to go after me, but don't even know about the stimulus package!? WoW
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-02-12-stimulus-package-effects_N.htm
Wait it was $ 787 billion
Which is my mistake for saying 8 trillion when it was more like 800 billion.
I'll get back to this later, I have something to do.
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Seriously 787 billions is almost 8 trillions right? Clearly I'm the one who doesn't know about the stimulus package.
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As someone from Sweden already said, i mostly notice the conservative stand points... So i have no clue what you are talking about, again, maybe because i live in a more socialistish society...
As was pointed out liberal/conservatism depends on point of view, some things may be conservative to me that are not for someone else. Like, most americans seem conservative to me, even those that call themselves liberal...
my 2 cents...
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You can't run a debt of 13,000,000,000,000 and only spend 787 billion.
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Let me state what I said earlier again... That was HALF as a large as it should be according to theory. It should have been approx. 1.4 trillion dollars.
Of course Austerity is fine too. It's not like we have any historical or contemporary examples of austerity programs going to hell.
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EPT
