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Just contributing my experience here since I've actually seen a shaolin monks show at the temple. Everything they do looks very real and amazing but questionable.
One of the main ones is the iron neck thing with spears. I get the feeling it has to do with how the spears are positioned because when I saw it, it was also with two spears at a angle (like the video).
Breaking the wood sticks on random body parts could very well be real. They do a lot of show with them before they hit someone by smashing them on the ground and bending them slightly to prove authenticity.
They also do some things with needles and other weapons but don't seem physically possible and probably involves some trick.
I would have to assume most physical skills are real as the audience is allowed pretty damn close to the circle, I would assume wires might be noticeable. They are also half naked so other forms of trickery would be difficult as well.
Also, for those who care, they have large amounts of children training from a young age and live there. You can also pay to 'train' there for a month or two if you wanted :D
And on topic, I'm pretty sure a shaolin monk would be going a little overboard, anyone with limited martial arts training would probably be enough. I agree with those who said it was for some fame.
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Kinda stupid. They hit him with skinny wooden poles that break on impact? Hit him with a real baseball bat to the body and see how he takes it.
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On May 15 2010 05:21 Pika Chu wrote:
Biology as any science, isn't mature it is evolving. It does not know everything about the human body so don't take it as a bible.
When you take current science as a dogma without any critic perception of it you become no better than religious fanatics.
the fact that not everything is known does not make improbable phenomena any more probable.
and there's a difference between believing in religion and understanding science
+ Show Spoiler +On May 14 2010 06:08 Shizuru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 05:55 RoosterSamurai wrote:
I wonder how much they pay him a week? I would totally hire a shaolin monk, if nothing else, for the fun of it. if you read the news article u woulda know. to all of you who doubt the autheticity of real kung fu, the human body is much more powerful than u think, remember the jump the scene where morpheus shows neo how to do the jump in the matrix? anyhow i've been looking around for videos on these shaolin monks, and i have to say its quite an eye opener of what these monks are capable or, actually i'm just surprised at what the human body is capable of... still though, all is for naught unless they can do crazier shit like stopping bullets, they make a great body guard in a country where guns aren't available widely i guess.
i don't think that bringing up a scene from a movie that uses a lot of special effects helps you prove your point.
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On May 15 2010 06:31 Jonoman92 wrote:
Kinda stupid. They hit him with skinny wooden poles that break on impact? Hit him with a real baseball bat to the body and see how he takes it.
Wouldn't call those skinny wooden poles. Would you like to be hit with one of those? But yeah, would be interesting to see the results after a hit with a baseball bat.
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On May 15 2010 06:31 Jonoman92 wrote:
Kinda stupid. They hit him with skinny wooden poles that break on impact? Hit him with a real baseball bat to the body and see how he takes it.
I guess you missed the part where a guy gets kicked in the balls 10 consecutive times
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The human body is capable of a lot more than most people would suspect even without some sort of mystical training. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a person was able to withstand having 2X4's broken over their arms, legs, or head... particularly if they underwent this kind of training for all their lives since a young age. A lot of the pain is no longer an issue once you've been hit enough to completely desensitize the nerves in the area. They still do this for many other martial arts as well as various types of military training. There are also techniques one could employ to absorb the impact as well. Broken bones also heal stronger than they were before they were broken.
I've not seen the bit about the drill or electric saw, but I probably wouldn't go so far as to believe any such claims off the bat. The human body, despite its resiliance, certainly has its limits. Most of the performances involving sharp objects have scientific explanations behind them that can be explained. One of the most common examples is people who will lie on a bed of nails. The number of nails makes it seem all the more amazing, but that's actually the factor that allows for someone to do this because it causes the weight to be distributed over the many nails as opposed to a single one. If it was a single nail or spike, they would probably be impaled immediately.
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How is this thread STILL GOING ON? Let me be clear: there is NO discussion to be had.
You CANNOT make your skin inpenetrable by training martial arts.
You CANNOT voluntarily cause your testes to retract. The body pulls the testes into the interior of the body to protect sperm from extreme cold.
I'm one degree removed from an honest-to-god Chinese "Master" in kung-fu, incorporating ba gua zhang, chi gong, xingyi, tai ji, shaolin, white crane, li tsi ming, and whatever else they could get their hands on. I've studied under my teacher, and my teacher's teacher, who learned directly from this master, as well as another assistant teacher both before and after he changed schools, and still a fourth teacher from a third school. This master I'm most familiar with preferred to teach xingyi by hiding it in baqua and teaching principles with shaolin. I've also punched my second teacher's master at a demonstration (yes, he was quite tough: a short, round, muscular Chinese man - but a haymaker from a huge black college student caused him to stagger backward).
Here's the thing: Nothing I encountered in all of the time I spent in Chinese martial arts even so much as hinted at a way to become extraordinarily resilient. Yes, you can become much tougher and more powerful than a stereotypical "fat american slob" through intense training. You can become a great athlete.
You CANNOT become a superman. You can't prevent yourself from being cut by a bladed weapon, or heaven forbid a motorized edge.
Many stage tricks are employed in these traveling shaolin shows. They are just shows. They are entertainment (and propaganda). They do NOT hint at greater powers to be had.
This includes getting hit in the testicles. This is an easy and well known trick, you set up the demonstration so that the person kicking you cannot really make a good impact. Yeah, it hurts, but your gonads are safe. I actually saw documentary footage about this trick last year, but I haven't been able to find it again. It was at one of those "chi" schools.
What infuriates me about threads like these is that people will argue in defense of superstitious, unscientific things and come away thinking that the possibility still exists. Get it out of your head. Grow up, enter the adult world. It does not exist in the realm of possibility. You will never repel the impact of real sharpened sword or a spear or a chainsaw. Never.
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Well obviously if Shaolin Monks were invincible, they wouldn't have gotten killed all the time by barbarians, thiefs, and raiders throughout the course of history. The only reason these monks developed these martial arts in the first place was to stand a fighting chance and protect themselves from being slaughtered and robbed...
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Oh my god it's amazing how strong you can make yourself. Needs too much dedication for people with "normal" enviroment tho.
On May 14 2010 00:25 Shizuru~ wrote:
i can't the the video where he did the stunt where he drilled his own head though, any1 can find it?
Yeah I think I found it
+ Show Spoiler [;)] +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEvDKOuhic
just joking
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On May 19 2010 03:52 Delerium wrote:
How is this thread STILL GOING ON? Let me be clear: there is NO discussion to be had.
You CANNOT make your skin inpenetrable by training martial arts.
You CANNOT voluntarily cause your testes to retract. The body pulls the testes into the interior of the body to protect sperm from extreme cold.
I'm one degree removed from an honest-to-god Chinese "Master" in kung-fu, incorporating ba gua zhang, chi gong, xingyi, tai ji, shaolin, white crane, li tsi ming, and whatever else they could get their hands on. I've studied under my teacher, and my teacher's teacher, who learned directly from this master, as well as another assistant teacher both before and after he changed schools, and still a fourth teacher from a third school. This master I'm most familiar with preferred to teach xingyi by hiding it in baqua and teaching principles with shaolin. I've also punched my second teacher's master at a demonstration (yes, he was quite tough: a short, round, muscular Chinese man - but a haymaker from a huge black college student caused him to stagger backward).
Here's the thing: Nothing I encountered in all of the time I spent in Chinese martial arts even so much as hinted at a way to become extraordinarily resilient. Yes, you can become much tougher and more powerful than a stereotypical "fat american slob" through intense training. You can become a great athlete.
You CANNOT become a superman. You can't prevent yourself from being cut by a bladed weapon, or heaven forbid a motorized edge.
Many stage tricks are employed in these traveling shaolin shows. They are just shows. They are entertainment (and propaganda). They do NOT hint at greater powers to be had.
This includes getting hit in the testicles. This is an easy and well known trick, you set up the demonstration so that the person kicking you cannot really make a good impact. Yeah, it hurts, but your gonads are safe. I actually saw documentary footage about this trick last year, but I haven't been able to find it again. It was at one of those "chi" schools.
What infuriates me about threads like these is that people will argue in defense of superstitious, unscientific things and come away thinking that the possibility still exists. Get it out of your head. Grow up, enter the adult world. It does not exist in the realm of possibility. You will never repel the impact of real sharpened sword or a spear or a chainsaw. Never.
So, what you're saying is that everything they do in those videos linked here are completely fake? I've always been sceptical about stuff like this, and I have to see it with my own eyes before deciding to believe it or not. But I'm just curious about how they possibly can fake all this stuff.
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Delerium is god! He knows everything! He is always right!
And his nickname sealed the deal.
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On May 19 2010 06:22 Zexion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 03:52 Delerium wrote:
How is this thread STILL GOING ON? Let me be clear: there is NO discussion to be had.
You CANNOT make your skin inpenetrable by training martial arts.
You CANNOT voluntarily cause your testes to retract. The body pulls the testes into the interior of the body to protect sperm from extreme cold.
I'm one degree removed from an honest-to-god Chinese "Master" in kung-fu, incorporating ba gua zhang, chi gong, xingyi, tai ji, shaolin, white crane, li tsi ming, and whatever else they could get their hands on. I've studied under my teacher, and my teacher's teacher, who learned directly from this master, as well as another assistant teacher both before and after he changed schools, and still a fourth teacher from a third school. This master I'm most familiar with preferred to teach xingyi by hiding it in baqua and teaching principles with shaolin. I've also punched my second teacher's master at a demonstration (yes, he was quite tough: a short, round, muscular Chinese man - but a haymaker from a huge black college student caused him to stagger backward).
Here's the thing: Nothing I encountered in all of the time I spent in Chinese martial arts even so much as hinted at a way to become extraordinarily resilient. Yes, you can become much tougher and more powerful than a stereotypical "fat american slob" through intense training. You can become a great athlete.
You CANNOT become a superman. You can't prevent yourself from being cut by a bladed weapon, or heaven forbid a motorized edge.
Many stage tricks are employed in these traveling shaolin shows. They are just shows. They are entertainment (and propaganda). They do NOT hint at greater powers to be had.
This includes getting hit in the testicles. This is an easy and well known trick, you set up the demonstration so that the person kicking you cannot really make a good impact. Yeah, it hurts, but your gonads are safe. I actually saw documentary footage about this trick last year, but I haven't been able to find it again. It was at one of those "chi" schools.
What infuriates me about threads like these is that people will argue in defense of superstitious, unscientific things and come away thinking that the possibility still exists. Get it out of your head. Grow up, enter the adult world. It does not exist in the realm of possibility. You will never repel the impact of real sharpened sword or a spear or a chainsaw. Never. So, what you're saying is that everything they do in those videos linked here are completely fake? I've always been sceptical about stuff like this, and I have to see it with my own eyes before deciding to believe it or not. But I'm just curious about how they possibly can fake all this stuff.
It's not 'completely fake' as you might put it. A lot of their feats still take a lot of strength and training to pull off. They just combine their training with illusions to make 'impossible' things happen.
I watched a documentary (discovery channel I believe?) where they demonstrated the methods behind some of their shows. For example, breaking the pig iron and thick sticks on their heads involved striking it at a certain place, I believe 1/3 down the shaft, which is a point where the stick is easiest to break just due to the way force is applied to it. So yeah, to break the stick still requires you to have a hard head, but it's made easier by the methods by which they do it.
I would compare it to western magic shows. They do a lot of 'impossible' stuff in them too, but once it is explained to you they are usually really simple.
On May 19 2010 06:31 Pika Chu wrote:
Delerium is god! He knows everything! He is always right!
And his nickname sealed the deal.
His first hand experience with actual masters is a lot better than your anecdotes.
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holy shit. i'd be scared shitless
kick ass
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On May 19 2010 01:14 Wings wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2010 06:31 Jonoman92 wrote:
Kinda stupid. They hit him with skinny wooden poles that break on impact? Hit him with a real baseball bat to the body and see how he takes it. I guess you missed the part where a guy gets kicked in the balls 10 consecutive times
Get a cup?
Alot of what is done are canry tricks like the spears is a carny trick anyone can do that you just have to keep moving in 1 direction and place it correctly. The carny version is bending rebar or breaking spears etc.
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Drilling his own head :D It's of course impossible, that poor girl is now attracting the serial killer group's attention with newspaper articles and has a false shaolin monk to protect her, gg
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dl2agon
United States473 Posts
Man these guys got balls of steel...that or they have no balls...=)
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On May 14 2010 01:53 Kogu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 01:43 viletomato wrote:
The attackers will just have to bring a gun next time.... I doubt those iron shaolin monks can take bullets. if he can take kicks and sticks to his "balls" I believe he can take a bullet or 2
I definitely believe monks can take bullets without feeling the pain, but they will unfortunately still take the damage of the bullet and can still die.
Also for people talking about being able to take hits to the balls, there are some supposed shaolin training methods you can read about and one of them is basically they constantly punch their balls until they don't feel it anymore to train them.
On May 19 2010 06:31 Fontong wrote:
I would compare it to western magic shows. They do a lot of 'impossible' stuff in them too, but once it is explained to you they are usually really simple.
I wouldn't compare it to magic shows at all. Magic shows have alot of actual fake things in them. Like you mentioned, monk abilities are all real, its just easier to do it then you expect. I don't believe monks try to deceive anyone either, if you were to ask them how its done they would probably tell you straight out.
They don't really use any illusions either. For example, it appears that their head is breaking something. What actually happened is that their head broke something. Sure it may only be a certain part of the head, but what happens is real. All of martial arts is based on these principles.
All joint locks and arm bars are all based on exploting weak or strong points of the human body. the same applies for striking, that is why there are techniques to punching, and likewise there are techniques to getting attacked. If you were to try to punch someone in the head and they moved their head in such a way that you hit the "hard" part of their head, they would basically receive little to no damage and your hand would instead be extremely damaged.
On May 14 2010 08:02 Shizuru~ wrote:
i do agree though it is kinda strange the military/scientist did not look into these phenomenon and study their potential applications.
wait a minute.... this thread ain't about kung fu discussion -.-
There actually have been some studies by one of those famous universities, forget which one, on monks abilities to generate heat. They were found to be able to be able to sleep in freezing cold weather with only their robes and without shivering at all, and upon placing wet towels on their back steam would rise and it would dry off much quicker than normal.
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On May 19 2010 08:42 Disastorm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2010 06:31 Fontong wrote:
I would compare it to western magic shows. They do a lot of 'impossible' stuff in them too, but once it is explained to you they are usually really simple. I wouldn't compare it to magic shows at all. Magic shows have alot of actual fake things in them. Like you mentioned, monk abilities are all real, its just easier to do it then you expect. I don't believe monks try to deceive anyone either, if you were to ask them how its done they would probably tell you straight out. They don't really use any illusions either. For example, it appears that their head is breaking something. What actually happened is that their head broke something. Sure it may only be a certain part of the head, but what happens is real. All of martial arts is based on these principles. All joint locks and arm bars are all based on exploting weak or strong points of the human body. the same applies for striking, that is why there are techniques to punching, and likewise there are techniques to getting attacked. If you were to try to punch someone in the head and they moved their head in such a way that you hit the "hard" part of their head, they would basically receive little to no damage and your hand would instead be extremely damaged.
I just said to compare it. Of course western magic has a lot of things that are just completely illusions.
What I meant was that everything you are seeing might not be exactly how it first looks. I also meant that each performance is well rehearsed and each demonstration has methods that make it possible.
In contrast, it's not that same thing as a athletic competition, such as a track meet. It's definitely a performance.
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This was lui kang´s and kung lao´s real dayjob..
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EPT
